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  1. #1
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    QR vs TA - is it dangerous?

    Just curious to see what others think about/have experienced with QR vs TA. I have a steel HT built up with a 2008 RS Revelation at 130mm. I have QR now and have considered swapping over to TA.
    Other than eliminating some fork flex, does TA offer a substantial level of safety to the rider? Basically, if taking drops/hits NO larger than 3 or 4 feet, is TA needed or is QR suffucient?

    Thanks all

  2. #2
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    Nothing is needed, all is luxury.

    Do you need a TA to do large drops, no, do you want one, definitly.

    You do not realise how much flext you got on landing until it goes

  3. #3
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    qr is not dangerous unless you are an idiot and dont install it right or something. ta is nice to have but its not gonna be safer.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    Nothing is needed, all is luxury.

    Do you need a TA to do large drops, no, do you want one, definitly.

    You do not realise how much flext you got on landing until it goes

    Agreed! Not needed, but definitely wanted. Even the 15QR is substantially stiffer and more reliable than 9mm qr.

  5. #5
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    I rode a 20mm TA for the first time this weekend and all I can say is WOW! huge improvement from the 9mm dt swiss axle I was using. comparing it to a standard QR is not even in the same universe.

  6. #6
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    OK so it looks like it is just VERY desireable but not necessary. I'm just getting into more aggressive riding and found a good deal on a QR Revelation, had a wheelset with std QR so that is what I am using. I don't plan on doing anything too crazy, I have young kids. Guess when it is time for a new wheelset or fork, I'll take the plunge all at once.

  7. #7
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    I'm a big guy, so this may not apply much to you regular sized folks.

    Since switching to TA forks and bolt on rear hubs I find my bike tracks a straight line much better through the rough stuff. Especially off camber landings after a drop or jump, or entering a rock garden into a turn.
    For me the difference is night and day. I don't mind running a QR on the rear for the most part, but I can tell a difference with my bolt on wheels in lateral stiffness.

    I havent had the pleasure of riding a bike with a 12mm bolt on rear wheel yet, but can imagine it would be even stiffer.....but a frame designed for a 12mm bolt on rear is going to be a burlier frame anyways.

    I'm running hope pro 2 hubs 20mm TA front on a 36 Talas, and a 10mm bolt on rear on my BMC superstroke, which is a super burley frame. When I was running a QR on the rear I did feel some slight flexing occasionally which I do not notice since putting the hope on there.
    Hubs laced to Flows with DT comps.

    If you are a bigger guy, or riding aggressively, you will come to appreciate the TA and Bolt On setup, and you will notice a difference.
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  8. #8
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    If you "want" your bike to go where you point it, then you "need" a TA. Unless you're on a road bike.

  9. #9
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    qr is not dangerous unless you are an idiot and dont install it right or something. ta is nice to have but its not gonna be safer.
    That's wrong, sorry. I always check my QRs are tight before I ride (store bike with wheels off) and yet I've had a QR undo under heavy braking. Pure luck that I didn't fall and smash my face in. I only use TA now.

    Look up 'Russel Pinder' on STW for another example. Fox settled his case after he was left paralysed when his wheel was ejected from the dropouts.

    QR has no place on the front wheel of a mountain bike running discs IMHO. Wasn't a problem with rim brakes but with discs it is. Something to do with the angle of the force generated.

  10. #10
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    Regardless of the safety issue, I find the Maxle to be far easier to use and just a better system all-round.

    As retro mentions above, I have heard of issues using QRs with disc brakes, particularly as they are getting more and more powerful, but no personal experiences to speak of.

    Having used the Maxle system, I would never go back to a QR system, for these reasons.

  11. #11
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    The 15QR system works incredibly well too. More user friendly than 9mm, and definitely improved performance. The Fox 20mm quick release on the 36 series works really well too. Easy to use and super stable.

  12. #12
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    I guess the masses have spoken. I just figured that some manufacturers build AM wheelsets w/ QR only so it must have been safe. I'll be swapping over but it's gonna take some time.
    New fork + new wheels = lots of money.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro83
    That's wrong, sorry. I always check my QRs are tight before I ride (store bike with wheels off) and yet I've had a QR undo under heavy braking. Pure luck that I didn't fall and smash my face in. I only use TA now.

    Look up 'Russel Pinder' on STW for another example. Fox settled his case after he was left paralysed when his wheel was ejected from the dropouts.

    QR has no place on the front wheel of a mountain bike running discs IMHO. Wasn't a problem with rim brakes but with discs it is. Something to do with the angle of the force generated.
    Well, TAs come loose also. One of my riding buddies bot to the bottom of a DH run and found his Marzocchi TA axle dangerously loose. I do agree that TAs are more secure, but they need to be checked periodically also.

    As for performance, no question that TA is stiffer and tracks better. It's also a lot more convenient to install. No more jiggling the wheel to get it aligned right!

  14. #14
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    two things is for sure.

    1: after looking closely at a thru axle, your 9mm looks spindly and delicate.

    2: the 9mm was like that before you looked at the thru axle.

  15. #15
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    Well, TAs come loose also. One of my riding buddies bot to the bottom of a DH run and found his Marzocchi TA axle dangerously loose. I do agree that TAs are more secure, but they need to be checked periodically also.
    indeed, but at least with a TA your wheel can't just fall straight out!

  16. #16
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    Most of my riding buddies have QR fork-mount bike racks on their vehicles.
    One of my bikes has an '07 Fox36 (pinch bolt 20mm) and I have a QR rack adapter, but I find it annoying to remove/install the front wheel every time, likely a Maxle would make it pretty painless I guess.

    Have QR racks kept anyone from going to 20mm or 15mm forks?

  17. #17
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    I'm a small guy who doesn't do huge drops/jumps, but the difference between QR (even a "stiff" QR setup) and a 20mm is huge. Very much worth doing. I'd not build up another QR mtb unless a super light XC racer or rigid bike.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro83
    indeed, but at least with a TA your wheel can't just fall straight out!
    That is true.


    I would never let a bike rack keep me from getting a TA fork. I'd sell it and buy a new one (racks seem to sell pretty well where I live). Thru Axles are enough of an advantage in performance, safety, and convenience that I'd be willing to do that. But I don't think it would even be necessary. All the racks I can think of accept adapters for TA20mm or TA15mm forks.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsrxc
    Most of my riding buddies have QR fork-mount bike racks on their vehicles.
    One of my bikes has an '07 Fox36 (pinch bolt 20mm) and I have a QR rack adapter, but I find it annoying to remove/install the front wheel every time, likely a Maxle would make it pretty painless I guess.

    Have QR racks kept anyone from going to 20mm or 15mm forks?

    Nope. I had a QR rack on my Jeep, bought one for my BMW, and now have a pickup so I dont use my BMW for bike duty any more. I too have an 07 Fox 36 with the pinch bolt, and I too dislike the hurricane Fork up. But it works, and it gets(got) my bike to the trail. A bit extra vs. a QR, but the benefit everywhere else on the trail was worth it.

    I, unlike Scrublover, am a big guy, but I too will never own another bike without a 20mm. Even if I build an XC bike it will probably have a Maxle lite, or a 15mm axle.

  20. #20
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    I got QR on my 08 Fuel EX8. I just got some Easton Havocs for it, partly because they give me option to get TA later when I do my next AM build. I don't see how you lose wheel with QR though, it won't come out of my Fox fork unless I unscrew it a little bit out of the recesses.

  21. #21
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    A 9 mm QR for a 3-5 inch fork is adequate. Once you bump up to the 5-7 inch forks, you're going to need 20 mm axle to make it more torsionally rigid.
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  22. #22
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    Hi, would a hub like this be any better than a normal QR?

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=12145

    Or is that STILL a normal QR??

    Or would a 9mm bolt on be better than a 9mm QR or are they one and the same??

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro83
    That's wrong, sorry. I always check my QRs are tight before I ride (store bike with wheels off) and yet I've had a QR undo under heavy braking. Pure luck that I didn't fall and smash my face in. I only use TA now.

    Look up 'Russel Pinder' on STW for another example. Fox settled his case after he was left paralysed when his wheel was ejected from the dropouts.

    QR has no place on the front wheel of a mountain bike running discs IMHO. Wasn't a problem with rim brakes but with discs it is. Something to do with the angle of the force generated.
    okay, i just read about russel pinder and it sounds like a one in a million thing. the fork, brake, and skewer allignment would have to be just right. sounds like he just was majorly unlucky. besides he is suing fox, not the skewer mfg. but i cant argue about the braking forces. but in the same respect i dont think skewers are really meant to stand up to that, they're more of a xc/ trail thing and in that application i say they are pretty good. if you're braking hard enough to undo a skewer its a pretty good sign your riding terrain outside the realms qr skewers were designed for.

  24. #24
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    TA is indeed better.

    But, if you don't want to convert right away, consider Halo Hex Skewers. They tighten down and don't come loose as easy as a QR.

    http://www.halorims.com/Halo/product...php?id=HUHAQHD

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tessaiga
    Hi, would a hub like this be any better than a normal QR?

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=12145

    Or is that STILL a normal QR??

    Or would a 9mm bolt on be better than a 9mm QR or are they one and the same??
    In the 9mm format, that hub will not be significantly different than any other 9mm QR. The skewer is still supporting the load. A 9mm bolt through would be more reliable and might stiffen the front end up a touch, but it's still not as solid as a 15QR or 20TA.

  26. #26
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    Thank for the info...

    I'm a bit confused by the 15mmQR used by Fox..... can this type of forks be used on a normal 9mm QR hub or is there some other conversion that is required?

  27. #27
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    The 15QR is a newer standard that was introduced by Fox & Shimano a couple of seasons ago. It uses a 15mm thru axle that threads into the opposite dropout on the fork and then closes with a cam lever. The hub needs to be a 15mm compatible hub. There are several hubs on the market now that can be converted between 9mm and 15QR, between 15QR and 20TA, or between all three.

  28. #28
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    If you do not get a 20 or 15mm axle, at least get a bolt-on skewer, such as Halo Hex, or better yet, front hub that takes 9mm RWS bolt-on from DT, that you can use with your existing fork. That would be a somewhat more robust setup.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    If you do not get a 20 or 15mm axle, at least get a bolt-on skewer, such as Halo Hex, or better yet, front hub that takes 9mm RWS bolt-on from DT, that you can use with your existing fork. That would be a somewhat more robust setup.
    not really arguing but why would a halo hex skewer be any more robust than a regular skewer? as far i can tell its just a skewer minus the cam. i can see a bolt up axle being more sturdy but not really that halo thing.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul
    not really arguing but why would a halo hex skewer be any more robust than a regular skewer?
    Easier to set-up proper tension. Less likely to get open accidentally. Lighter. Try it.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul
    qr is not dangerous unless you are an idiot and dont install it right or something. ta is nice to have but its not gonna be safer.
    10 points, great answer, to the point.

    That said, I do notice straight away the difference in stiffness when I change from from FR bike with TA forks to my hardtail with QR.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdlals
    TA is indeed better.

    But, if you don't want to convert right away, consider Halo Hex Skewers. They tighten down and don't come loose as easy as a QR.

    http://www.halorims.com/Halo/product...php?id=HUHAQHD
    Did a little investigating and just ordered a set of these. Here is the online source for the US:

    http://www.universalcycles.com/search.php?q=halo+hex

    Thanks for the tip.

    John
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  33. #33
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    The 20mm through axle held up fine, the wheel....not so much.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails QR vs TA - is it dangerous?-cimg2836.jpg  


  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    Easier to set-up proper tension. Less likely to get open accidentally. Lighter. Try it.
    i agree with all that but in no way is it stronger like you originally said.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul
    i agree with all that but in no way is it stronger like you originally said.
    I have said "more robust". English is not my native language, but I have assumed that "robustness" (of the whole system) includes more then strength.

    Somebody on wikipedia states that "Robustness is the quality of being able to withstand stresses, pressures, or changes in procedure or circumstance". That's the "procedure and circumstance" that I was thinking about. And with more tension and less bushings it is possibly just a tiny bit stiffer.

    I would not be terribly surprised if pure strength is also improved - with less moving parts, but yes, you are absolutely right, properly setup QR is in no danger of breaking. Maybe with the exception of those 50g ti sets for hardcore weenies (and why do not they use far stronger ti bolt-ons, such as 47g set of Control Tech Race, I have no idea.)

  36. #36
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    I've found that people who speak English as a second language are sometimes more careful to use correct grammar and definitions

  37. #37
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    yeah you used the word robust more correct than how i thought about it. i quickly thought "ok, robust = strength".

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jscusmcvet
    Did a little investigating and just ordered a set of these. Here is the online source for the US:

    http://www.universalcycles.com/search.php?q=halo+hex

    Thanks for the tip.

    John
    No problem. I like mine a lot. Used to have problems with my Ringle QR skewers coming loose, not with these.

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