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  1. #1
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    Orbea Rallon 50 Vs. Specialized Pitch Pro. This is a toughie (for me)

    Hiya, I had posted recently asking for some opinions about the Pitch Pro 2011. After mulling over all the input I got, I had made up my mind to buy it this month. I had almost booked my tickets to Singapore where I intended to make the purchase because Spesh does not sell in India. But then my LBS got a new stock of Orbea bikes and the Rallon 50 was one of them. I really wish they hadn't because now I'm back to being the lost and confused soul again.

    I'm getting a pretty good deal on the Rallon. I have a very good relationship with the LBS and they are willing to give me the 50 for about 2350USD. The bike has good reviews online but the number of reviews are not as many as the Pitch.

    I tried comparing the bikes and here's what I found. I have also mentioned where I think either bike is better specced but I could be wrong.

    Fork: FOX 32 FRL 150mm (Rallon) Vs. RockShox Sektor RL 150mm (Pitch). I think Sektor is better due to the MoCo damper. Also the Pitch has a 20mm Maxle as opposed to the 15mm on the Rallon. The Sektor is a solo-air and I don't know what the 32 FRL is.

    Rear shock: Fox RP23 XV, 150mm (Rallon) Vs. Fox RP2, 150mm (Pitch). Rallon wins here right?

    Suspension: Lambda Vs. FSR-Horst. Still trying to research the Lambda but FSR is a tested and proven design so I'm inclined to say Pitch is better

    Groupset: I'm unable to figure this out. I'm clueless on how to compare Shimano and SRAM and a lot that I read online only served to confuse me. The Rallon has a SLX Shadow RD, Alivio FD, Deore crankset and shifters and what seems to be a SLX cassette. The Pitch, X9 RD, SLX FD, Truvativ GXP2 2.1 crankset, X5 shifters and a Shimano HG30 cassette (Altus?)

    Brakes: Formula RX Vs. Avid Elixir 5 R SL. Both the brakesets seem to be equally good.

    Wheels: Mavic Crossride Vs. Alexrims with Specialized Hi Lo hubs. I think the Rallon has better wheels. Even though the Crossrides are more trail than AM, I believe they will hold up to the riding I do. Pitch on the other hand has some Alexrims but I'm unable to find the exact model. Also I read some complaints about the same hubs on Enduros.

    Tires: Kenda Nevegal Vs. Specialized Eskar. My LBS said he will try to work Nevegals, which has very good reviews, into the deal but can't promise it right now. I don't remember what the stock tires were. Eskar has very good reviews too so the tires contest is a tie.

    Price: 2350USD Vs. 2400USD. I won't have to fly to Singapore for the Rallon but I don't think its fair to hold that against the Pitch. After all, if both were available at the same location then I wouldn't care about $50 difference.

    Would greatly appreciate any help from you folks. And please correct me if my choice of what's better was totally wrong

  2. #2
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    Get the Orbea.

    Orbea do a lifetime warranty, so there is no disadvantage over the Spesh if you have a problem. More importantly, you don't have to fly to Singapore to get it and any spares you need can come from your LBS.

    Sems like a no brainer purely for practical reasons to me. Orbea bikes are lovely too.

    PS, Orbea Lambda is a single pivot with a push linkage to alter the leverage on the shock. It's pretty simple really but it works.

  3. #3
    usually cranky
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    the rallon has a nicer spec. the suspension is nicer. the pitch is a little more slack though.

  4. #4
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    thanx Fix The Spade and b-kul.
    i wish the Orbea site was more detailed when it comes to listing the specs. there is no info about the type of adjustments available on the fork or the rear shock. i looked it up on the Fox site but dunno if the bike will have the same or some custom setup. for example, the 32 FRL fork on the Fox site does not have the 150mm travel version at all. the disc sizes are not mentioned. no clue about the handlebar rise and sweep and the stem angle.

  5. #5
    usually cranky
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    generally big companies like spec orbea trek etc will get suspension costom made for them. as for cockpit stuff it looks pretty standard, bars ~685mm, med rise and sweep. stem ~100mm, 5 degree rise. just a guess but based on how most companies spec those kind of bikes i think im in the ballpark.

  6. #6
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    You really can't go wrong with a pitch frame. I've had my 08 PP for about two years now. Mine is currently setup with a 160mm 55 rc3 ti, dhx 5 ti coil, and some heavy wheels and tires. I have no problem climbing this bike with that setup and they are very solid with a great feel great on the DH. I think if specialized were to upgrade the pitch next year only things they should do is go to a tapered or full 1.5 inch headtube and go to a 10 or 12mm rear through axle.

    I also have a banshee spitfires that has been my main ride for the last 4 months. I broke the pitch out yesterday to see how it felt compared to my spitty. I forgot how much I like the pitch better going through the rough stuff though I'm sure it's due to the coil shock I'm running in the rear.

  7. #7
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    thanx for the advise guys. i have booked the Rallon 50 with some upgrades. i am getting the TALAS 32 RLC instead of the FRL so i get compression adjust too. i've also decided to change the brakeset from Formula RX to R1. the test bike that i rode had the R1s and they felt absolutely great. my other option is to get Shimano XT brakeset for the same price as the R1 upgrade. any suggestions? i see from reviews that both R1 and XT have a lot of recommendations so i guess it boils down to what i prefer. but i have never ridden a bike with XT brakes so can't compare

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by muggymach3
    i see from reviews that both R1 and XT have a lot of recommendations so i guess it boils down to what i prefer. but i have never ridden a bike with XT brakes so can't compare
    You can never go wrong with Shimano, warranty service in every bike store in America.

  9. #9
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    i'm in India but yeah we do have good service by Shimano here

  10. #10
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    Why not a BMC Carbon Trailfox? Just saw it at SeaOtter...I don't know what the price or hard spec would be on it...

  11. #11
    JMH
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    Rallon all the way!

    Rallon

  12. #12
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    wow JMH! that looks awesome with Havens. i missed a really good deal for a pair of 2010 Havens. it was about 500 USD for the set. so pissed off with myself right now.

    what version of Rallon is it? 30? 10?

  13. #13
    JMH
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    Quote Originally Posted by muggymach3
    wow JMH! that looks awesome with Havens. i missed a really good deal for a pair of 2010 Havens. it was about 500 USD for the set. so pissed off with myself right now.

    what version of Rallon is it? 30? 10?
    It started as a 30 but obviously has evolved into something completely unrecognizable. I work for Orbea and this is one of my "company cars"

    JMH

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    It started as a 30 but obviously has evolved into something completely unrecognizable. I work for Orbea and this is one of my "company cars"

    JMH
    Will you explain why the Rallon suspension is considered a single pivot and not a variant of 4-bar? Are there not pivot points on the seat stays just above the drop-outs?

    Thanks.

  15. #15
    JMH
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pittzer
    Will you explain why the Rallon suspension is considered a single pivot and not a variant of 4-bar? Are there not pivot points on the seat stays just above the drop-outs?

    Thanks.
    Sure, I will give it a whack.

    Any design that has an uninterrupted, solid connection between the main pivot and the rear axle is a single pivot. It doesn't really matter what method you use to drive the shock after that, you will see many variations. Bikes like the Rallon are typically referred to as "linkage driven single pivots" where the upper linkage is tuned in shape and position to give the shock performance we are after.

    4-Bar gets used generically, but I usually think of "4-Bar with Horst Link" bikes like FSR, Ellsworth and older Turners where there is a pivot below the axle. There are also "4-Bar without Horst Link" (Faux-Bar) designs that LOOK like Horst bikes except the rear pivot is above the axle, thus making it a single pivot. Kona and Turner TNT designs use this. I suppose some folks call these single pivot bikes "modified 4-Bar" but they are still single pivot designs since the axle swings around a fixed location somewhere near the bottom bracket.

    Mini Link bikes like Niner CVA, DW Link, Maestro and Banshee designs have solid swingarms but they are connected via linkages and not a single pivot location, so the arc of the swingarm is around a "virtual" pivot point instead of a single actual pivot attachment.

    I don't know if that helps, or makes things worse.

    This link might do a better job. It refers to most of these designs as 4-bar when they have a linkage or rocker-tuned activation of the shock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_suspension

    JMH
    Last edited by JMH; 04-21-2011 at 12:50 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    Sure, I will give it a whack.

    Any design that has an uninterrupted, solid connection between the main pivot and the rear axle is a single pivot. It doesn't really matter what method you use to drive the shock after that, you will see many variations. Bikes like the Rallon are typically referred to as "linkage driven single pivots" where the upper linkage is tuned in shape and position to give the shock performance we are after.

    4-Bar gets used generically, but I usually think of "4-Bar with Horst Link" bikes like FSR, Ellsworth and older Turners where there is a pivot below the axle. There are also "4-Bar without Horst Link" (Faux-Bar) designs that LOOK like Horst bikes except the rear pivot is above the axle, thus making it a single pivot. Kona and Turner TNT designs use this. I suppose some folks call these single pivot bikes "modified 4-Bar" but they are still single pivot designs since the axle swings around a fixed location somewhere near the bottom bracket.

    Mini Link bikes like Niner CVA, DW Link, Maestro and Banshee designs have solid swingarms but they are connected via linkages and not a single pivot location, so the arc of the swingarm is around a "virtual" pivot point instead of a single actual pivot attachment.

    I don't know if that helps, or makes things worse.

    This link might do a better job. It refers to most of these designs as 4-bar when they have a linkage or rocker-tuned activation of the shock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_suspension

    JMH
    That really does help. I was missing the distinction of where the chain stay pivot exists(or doesn't) on one versus the other. Many thanks.

  17. #17
    Edgar
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    JMH, one question for you.

    I also have a Rallon and I'm wondering how would be this frame behaviour running a coil shock on it?

    Do you think we can change rallon specs this way and still have a good compromise?

    Thanks

  18. #18
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    I've heard the Rallon is a better climber than DH'er, if that suites your style than factor that in. The pitch will perform better under braking and the rear wheel will track better over all thanks to FSR. Rallon is linkage actuated single pivot that's biased more towards climbing, though I hear you still need propedal at times unlike vpp, dw, etc... I would choose FSR over Orbea's design. Orbea is a high end company that's using a old basic design that's inferior to cheaper bikes like any of the new Gary Fishers for example. They both use the same basic design but Gary has the active braking pivot which stops negative braking influences on the suspension unlike the Rallon. Just because Orbea is a boutique brand, doesn't mean you're getting something special.

  19. #19
    Edgar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimat99
    I've heard the Rallon is a better climber than DH'er, if that suites your style than factor that in. The pitch will perform better under braking and the rear wheel will track better over all thanks to FSR. Rallon is linkage actuated single pivot that's biased more towards climbing, though I hear you still need propedal at times unlike vpp, dw, etc... I would choose FSR over Orbea's design. Orbea is a high end company that's using a old basic design that's inferior to cheaper bikes like any of the new Gary Fishers for example. They both use the same basic design but Gary has the active braking pivot which stops negative braking influences on the suspension unlike the Rallon. Just because Orbea is a boutique brand, doesn't mean you're getting something special.
    Sorry but I really disagree your point of view. I'm pretty sure that we can't compare it to a VPP system, and yes, using a 25% or even 30% SAG we need to pedal with pro pedal on. But definitely it isn't a better climber than DH'er. This bike rules when pointing down, it's a very stiff frame and for a 6'' travel bike, I would say the behaviour is almost like running a coil. It's progressive and we use all available travel. I had one Spesh before with FSR. So before saying this or that, just grab a test bike and then be free to comment.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdgarB
    Sorry but I really disagree your point of view. I'm pretty sure that we can't compare it to a VPP system, and yes, using a 25% or even 30% SAG we need to pedal with pro pedal on. But definitely it isn't a better climber than DH'er. This bike rules when pointing down, it's a very stiff frame and for a 6'' travel bike, I would say the behaviour is almost like running a coil. It's progressive and we use all available travel. I had one Spesh before with FSR. So before saying this or that, just grab a test bike and then be free to comment.

    I'm basing the climbing over DH on a pinkbike review. I'm sure it is a fine DH'er, but from what I know, Orbea tuned it to be an excellent climber and with a linkage actuated single piv, the engineer has to place the single pivot in a place that's best for climbing, or DH. I'm not saying it's not a mean when pointed down, just saying that the Rallon was designed to climb very well, so some DH performance is sacrificed like with pretty much any AM bike that's meant to do everything, though some designs can be tuned for both climbing and DH much better than others. I've owned many single pivs, as well as FSR from spec and devinci. FRS is better IMO. Doesn't mean it's better for everyone, I'm sure plenty will like the Rallon better, but I would go FSR all day long.

  21. #21
    Edgar
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    Of course I respect your opinion and yes it's a do it all bike

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