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  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    I freakin love it so far. The 29er front with 160 has silly rollover and is at least a little closer to the rear in terms of plushness. And the dco fork is pretty plush

    But now, first opinion of the revalve i had dvo do on the rear is just,..silly butter. This thing moves when you rest your hand on the saddle. And while i haven't had enough time to be sure it has enough bottoming resistance, i have zero volume spacers in it at the moment.

    @eatsdirt, you said the rear "disappeared" before in the gnar? It's better. Way better.

    And the thing carves and pops. The 29er fr and rear just always has a "longer" fell in the corners. Thise physics can't be denied
    Brian, with the shinedown could what would you need to change if you wanted to go back and forth between a 29" and 27.5 front end? Besides changing the fork (I'd look at putting on the new MRP Ribbon), would you need different dropouts? I wouldn't think so seeing as you already have the 27.5 wheel in the rear on the shinedown.

    I think this setup would be a blast here in oregon where I live. 27.5 for both in my usual tight coast range single track, then change out front wheels for when I go to bend and hood river where there's lots of rocks, drops, berms and jumps.

  2. #402
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    Brian, what size frame is the Shinedown pictured above, the Redrum one? Thanks!

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleR View Post
    Brian, just curious... what size frame is the Redrum" and what is the bb height? I'm thinking 120/130 front 29" and 160 rear 27.5" for my xc and a bit more bike!
    That frame is basically an old M in terms of ST/standover, and a new S in terms of reach. Since it was made out of an older proto frame.

    The BB is around 342 mm

    The original Downburst had a 140 mm front 29er and 160 mm rear 27.5

    I would be slightly concerned with 120/130 front just being overwhelmed by the rear, but obviously it depends where you ride.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddiesconfusion View Post
    Brian, with the shinedown could what would you need to change if you wanted to go back and forth between a 29" and 27.5 front end? Besides changing the fork (I'd look at putting on the new MRP Ribbon), would you need different dropouts? I wouldn't think so seeing as you already have the 27.5 wheel in the rear on the shinedown.

    I think this setup would be a blast here in oregon where I live. 27.5 for both in my usual tight coast range single track, then change out front wheels for when I go to bend and hood river where there's lots of rocks, drops, berms and jumps.
    You wouln't need dropouts. Technically, you would change the lower headset from internal, zero stack to external. But frequent headset swapping isn't any better for the frame than frequent pressfit bb swapping. Not recommended.

    But, I think if I was going to do it, I would just run a 29er fork and swap fr wheels. The bigger wheel would have a bit more rake, which goes along with your intended purpose.

  5. #405
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    Video of aluminum bike frame alignment

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icWIGDHl6sA

    I took this video while at "my" factory in Taiwan. This guy impressed me.

    Unfortunately, I failed to get his name, but he is aligning your frames, kickstarter customers.

    delivery update soon....

  6. #406
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    That's pretty cool... can definitely appreciate that having spent some time using an alignment table back in the day.

  7. #407
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    You don't get that good at it in one day, that's for sure. That's a honed skill right there.

  8. #408
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    TO anyone who has demoed a tantrum (and Brian). Where I mainly ride it tight, slower technical singletrack, with lots of roots, mud (long winters lately in Oregon), and tight corners. There isn't a lot of build up jumps or drops. A bike with a slacked out HTA isn't the best for my main riding area. How does the meltdown do in this type of terrain with it's adaptive geometry?

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    You don't get that good at it in one day, that's for sure. That's a honed skill right there.
    at one point, he just wacks the side of the seatstay with his hand, completely in flow. just needed that little bit. I watched him rattle off a few frames like that, really impressive.

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddiesconfusion View Post
    TO anyone who has demoed a tantrum (and Brian). Where I mainly ride it tight, slower technical singletrack, with lots of roots, mud (long winters lately in Oregon), and tight corners. There isn't a lot of build up jumps or drops. A bike with a slacked out HTA isn't the best for my main riding area. How does the meltdown do in this type of terrain with it's adaptive geometry?
    Most of the demo riders here were in more open, pure chunky mountains of rock. So I don't know if they can give you an answer. @cothayrus road it in Tenessee and @Aye in Indiana, probably the closest.

    here's my answer:

    I've played with HT angle all over the place, both literally on the bike and also literally all over the country's varied riding conditions. In my home trails in Indiana is probably pretty close to what you ride are describing. Practically a rain forest, with old growth hardwoods creating lots of roots. No doubt, a little steeper here lends to a better overall handling package for the conditions. There are very few places where you can appreciate a 64 degree HT angle, but that's what I am riding on my Meltdown. Why?, because when I get it out west, in the steep chunk, it's pure confidence.

    The Missing Link does a good job of making sure the bike isn't down in it's travel, especially if you're attacking, so even at 64 degrees, it handles pretty damn good on level ground. 10-15 years ago, if you'd have told me that a 64 degree HT angle was anything but stupid for Indiana, I'd have laughed. But I have no problem snaking thru the trees and roots. I don't even think about it any more.

    And in the climbs, well, the demo riders here certainly climbed on as challenging of trails as available anywhere. Some of these trails could not be more challenging and still be rideable. The bike demonstrates none of the typical raked out climbing behaviour. The front wheel stays down, doesn't wander and you never feel "behind the bike" like you do on your current ride. It really feels 4-6 degrees steeper on climbs.

    And there's always the angleset to fine tune for your particulars....

  11. #411
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    Scenes from the Tantrum Cycleworks factory

    https://youtu.be/tedHE-HrUBA

    The latest parts rolling off the CNC machines

  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Most of the demo riders here were in more open, pure chunky mountains of rock. So I don't know if they can give you an answer. @cothayrus road it in Tenessee and @Aye in Indiana, probably the closest.

    here's my answer:

    I've played with HT angle all over the place, both literally on the bike and also literally all over the country's varied riding conditions. In my home trails in Indiana is probably pretty close to what you ride are describing. Practically a rain forest, with old growth hardwoods creating lots of roots. No doubt, a little steeper here lends to a better overall handling package for the conditions. There are very few places where you can appreciate a 64 degree HT angle, but that's what I am riding on my Meltdown. Why?, because when I get it out west, in the steep chunk, it's pure confidence.

    The Missing Link does a good job of making sure the bike isn't down in it's travel, especially if you're attacking, so even at 64 degrees, it handles pretty damn good on level ground. 10-15 years ago, if you'd have told me that a 64 degree HT angle was anything but stupid for Indiana, I'd have laughed. But I have no problem snaking thru the trees and roots. I don't even think about it any more.

    And in the climbs, well, the demo riders here certainly climbed on as challenging of trails as available anywhere. Some of these trails could not be more challenging and still be rideable. The bike demonstrates none of the typical raked out climbing behaviour. The front wheel stays down, doesn't wander and you never feel "behind the bike" like you do on your current ride. It really feels 4-6 degrees steeper on climbs.

    And there's always the angleset to fine tune for your particulars....
    Thanks Brian, I was just looking at the gel chart for the meltdown on your website. The non-race version with 160mm fork has a HTA of 65 degrees. Is that just with a stock headset and not the angleset?

    I think I'd be plenty happy with a 65 degree for most of my riding.

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    https://youtu.be/tedHE-HrUBA

    The latest parts rolling off the CNC machines
    Excellent.

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    https://youtu.be/tedHE-HrUBA

    The latest parts rolling off the CNC machines
    Hello Brian,

    I had sent an email to you regarding the Indiegogo site. How do you sign up for one of the bikes?

    Thanks!
    Adam

  15. #415
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    Original statement was first frames would be ready in late May. I considered that optimistic at the time so no worries - this isn't my first time at the new product rodeo ha. Do you have a revised estimate on when they might start arriving ?

  16. #416
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    Kickstarter backers got this update yesterday:

    Stymied for communication by the Dragon Boat Festival, which occurred last weekend with a couple days of this week included.

    Ok, obviously my early prediction of mid to late May delivery was off base. Why? A variety of small reasons and one larger reason. All of the tubes have yet to arrive from the tube factory. I just got this information late Friday and could not confirm, what, or how many, we are lacking. The good news is that they are all "catalog" tubes, even the DT, which the factory opened a mold for me in exchange for allowing them to offer the tube in their catalog. I suspect the DT may be the holdup, as the quantity may have caught the factory off guard or the order might have been put in a little late. but they have the mold and production is quick. Now that I have heard this information, I will contact the tubing factory myself for their update.

    Once the country (Taiwan) opens back up this week, I'll have more details and revised delivery schedule. They mentioned mid June. I'm also working on a small rebate program to backers. I had offered a cash bonus to the factory for "early" (meaning on time) delivery. Hmmmm, it seems I won't be paying that, so instead, I decided to start offering a bit of late delivery rebate to Kickstarter backers. Details soon.

    Communication with suppliers can always be challenging. With Taiwan, there is a 12 hour time difference (to EST) in addition to a very high language barrier, as most in the industrial sector, even (especially) engineers speak little english and chinese can be difficult to learn, although I'm picking up a little.

    I have been begging for more updates from the factory since the last batch of CNC parts 3 weeks ago. The problem is not that there aren't any more parts made, but that they are completely unused to this level of "customer service". It has to be a cultural thing, to some degree, but I have been pushing them pretty hard for more regular updates and upcoming scheduling of various stages of frame completion. I mentioned that I want it in the contract for the next batch. We'll see how that flies.

    Included in last weeks late email from the factory was a note that almost all CNC parts are finished. I am promised pictorial proof this week. I will try to take a trip to the factory to coincide with the first frames being done. This way, I can check everything out and possibly avert a problem. The timing can be tricky, but that is my plan. Hopefully in a week or 2. And I may be able to carry a couple frames back.....

    This is getting exciting. Stay tuned and thanks for your patience. And thanks again for helping me start a bike company.

    cheers,

    Brian

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    Original statement was first frames would be ready in late May. I considered that optimistic at the time so no worries - this isn't my first time at the new product rodeo ha. Do you have a revised estimate on when they might start arriving ?
    I was going to say even big companies can't give you an accurate date. Had similar delays when I bought my Tallboy and Mojo3.
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  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddiesconfusion View Post
    Thanks Brian, I was just looking at the gel chart for the meltdown on your website. The non-race version with 160mm fork has a HTA of 65 degrees. Is that just with a stock headset and not the angleset?

    I think I'd be plenty happy with a 65 degree for most of my riding.
    That got slightly tweaked. It is now 64.7, with a 160 fork, external lower cup, non angle set.

    Funny thing is, right now, I'm testing a bike (the shinedown) with a HT angle closer to 63. In Indiana. And this thing is a carving machine.

    I can only attribute it to the mixed wheel size.....

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-shinedown-es.jpg

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolimitsolja View Post
    Hello Brian,

    I had sent an email to you regarding the Indiegogo site. How do you sign up for one of the bikes?

    Thanks!
    Adam
    To all interested. Indiegogo has ended. I am not officially taking money for more orders at the moment. The original run of 60 frames is essentially gone (maybe a few left).

    There is a follow up batch of 90 frames, probably looking at Sept/Oct at this point. I have already started a waiting list for these frames and will probably start accepting deposits, once I get this first batch sorted out.

    And then, I will likely start a third batch immediately after, as it looks like the second batch may well be gone before I get them.

    If you are interested, please email me and get on the list. I am pushing as hard as I can on production.

  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I was going to say even big companies can't give you an accurate date. Had similar delays when I bought my Tallboy and Mojo3.
    I hear this all the time, but it doesn't make me feel any better. The stigma of being "another late kickstarter deal" pisses me off. It's a good thing I didn't put March delivery, like I originally thought possible!!! It WAS possible, but only if everything went perfectly. The real world being what it is....

    I still want the real world to be like racing. The race is happening, you better show up and have your act together. Or you get fired. And right now, I want to fire people. But I can't. So I guess I'll vent a little on mtbr instead.....

    I'm pretty unhappy about this tubing delay. I do have direct contact with the tubing factory and have asked for a clear update. Some options include partial batch of both tubes and frames. But I will have to wait till Monday to get a clear picture, as Taiwan is now closed

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    That got slightly tweaked. It is now 64.7, with a 160 fork, external lower cup, non angle set.

    Funny thing is, right now, I'm testing a bike (the shinedown) with a HT angle closer to 63. In Indiana. And this thing is a carving machine.

    I can only attribute it to the mixed wheel size.....

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I really like the mixed size concept.

    Below is a photo of our kids 46er (behind an Orange Stage 6 29er)
    I'm amazed how well the conversion have worked for both my oldest son and my middle daughter ( before Soccer took them away from mtb, but I hope there still is a seed that eventually will start to grow...)
    I did the same with an 20" wheeler with an 24" fork and front wheel. The higher BB was not an issue at all as the mainly did slower flowing trails with roots and rocks that was much easier for them to clear after the conversions.

    One thing that boggles me is why there is so little talk about 79er configuration it these days of longer travel Trail, Enduro and now even DH 29er bikes?

    It's nothing new and the is even a brand that base all bike models on that concept.

    Is the mixed wheels configuration stil to unusual to catch on as quick as common sense (over mainstream) would suggest?

    The only argument I could see against it is it might look odd for them who are too dumb to understand how it works and why..

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  22. #422
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    Hmmm, now I'm tempted to stick the 29er front end from my Kona Unit in the 26er Santa Cruz Chameleon for a ride or 2.

    Just checked, and the A-C is the same...

  23. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icWIGDHl6sA

    I took this video while at "my" factory in Taiwan. This guy impressed me.

    Unfortunately, I failed to get his name, but he is aligning your frames, kickstarter customers.

    delivery update soon....
    Enough with your fancy suspension kinematics, when will this step-through Pinion compatible frame be available? Nac-nacs galore and no drivetrain maintanence!
    Keep the Country country.

  24. #424
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    Does anyone know the answers for the following specs:

    Headset cup diameters (top 41 or 42mm? bottom 55mm or 56mm?
    Seatpost collar size
    Rear axle type for boost (Shimano E-Thru?)

  25. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    Hmmm, now I'm tempted to stick the 29er front end from my Kona Unit in the 26er Santa Cruz Chameleon for a ride or 2.

    Just checked, and the A-C is the same...
    If nothing else, it's fun to try and start to learn to feel the differences. the 29 front/26 rear combo might be too much difference, but you could always put a 27.5 wheel on that fork.

  26. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    Enough with your fancy suspension kinematics, when will this step-through Pinion compatible frame be available? Nac-nacs galore and no drivetrain maintanence!
    That version has already been superseded. The detail that i have not revealed until now is that the Missing Link creates a net forward thrust. Even sitting still, with no rider, you have to chock the front wheel to keep the bike from rolling away.....

  27. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by litany View Post
    Does anyone know the answers for the following specs:

    Headset cup diameters (top 41 or 42mm? bottom 55mm or 56mm?
    Seatpost collar size
    Rear axle type for boost (Shimano E-Thru?)
    Top is 44 mm, bottom is 56.

    seat post clamp is 34.9

    Yes, Shimano/Syntace 12 x 148 axle

  28. #428
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    Brian.

    Any idea when you will be able to spec the new Sram GX 1x12?

    GX Eagle this summer

    And how about Oval chainrings?

    Sent fra min XT1562 via Tapatalk

  29. #429
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    For the 12x142 dropouts, are there any special requirements for the axle type? This will be my first 12x142. Thanks.

  30. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    For the 12x142 dropouts, are there any special requirements for the axle type? This will be my first 12x142. Thanks.
    that is a good one... there are two possible thread pitch types, right ?

  31. #431
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    Any progress updates from the factory? I need to sell my old bike to fund parts for my Tantrum but would rather not be bikeless for too long. No problem waiting longer, just would like a ballpark delivery for planning the build.

  32. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    That version has already been superseded. The detail that i have not revealed until now is that the Missing Link creates a net forward thrust. Even sitting still, with no rider, you have to chock the front wheel to keep the bike from rolling away.....
    I'll need dimensions to input into Linkage to confirm this. To the Ridemonkey forum!
    Keep the Country country.

  33. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by finnlander View Post
    Any progress updates from the factory? I need to sell my old bike to fund parts for my Tantrum but would rather not be bikeless for too long. No problem waiting longer, just would like a ballpark delivery for planning the build.

    Not speaking for Brian obviously, but I would wait until you get a tracking number. Even big companies like Santa Cruz and Ibis can't push their manufactures and both gave me horrible inaccurate estimates. And even then then said they hope your frame is on the next shipment and wouldn't know until they opened the container.
    Last edited by TwoTone; 06-14-2017 at 05:16 AM.
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  34. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Not speaking for Brian obviously, but I would wait until you get a tracking number. Even big companies like Santa Cruz and Ibis can't push there manufactures and both gave me horrible inaccurate estimates. And even then then said they hope your frame is on the next shipment and wouldn't know until they opened the container.
    So true - I have been bikeless once - made sure that never happened again by always having a spare HT available to ride.

  35. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Westholm View Post
    Brian.

    Any idea when you will be able to spec the new Sram GX 1x12?

    GX Eagle this summer- Mtbr.com

    And how about Oval chainrings?

    Sent fra min XT1562 via Tapatalk
    I'm no sure when I can get GX for OE builds. SRAM has restricted distribution in the U.S. and I'm probably not a priority. When I can get it, it will be available.

    Oval chainrings? I have been on them only once, on a customer's bike on a demo ride. But the suspension was so.....not as good while climbing, I couldn't get a feel for it. I didn't really like the variation but again, it was suspension related.

    The customer said it was worse without oval.....

  36. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    For the 12x142 dropouts, are there any special requirements for the axle type? This will be my first 12x142. Thanks.
    As long as it is "shimano 12 x 148 e thru axle", it's fine.

  37. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    that is a good one... there are two possible thread pitch types, right ?
    these axles come with nuts, they are not threaded into the dropout. So the length is the critical factor and I have dimensioned the dropouts for this axle spec.

  38. #438
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    I suspect oval chainrings will only serve to assist the missing link frames. Essentially, you get to the next downstroke quicker with an oval. I'll be using one with mine if I get a Meltdown down under.
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  39. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    As long as it is "shimano 12 x 148 e thru axle", it's fine.
    Was that supposed to be 12x142? Thanks.

    I'll be using oval chainrings on mine, too. They help my knees quite a bit, so that is first priority. I have them on all my bikes.

  40. #440
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    I've never been on an oval. But the the positive words are pretty convincing. By the laws of physics, more even power output improves grip.
    I get a lot out of pushing my climbing ability, so I know it is worth for me to learn/ getting used to a new feeling.
    Som say it takes a couple of hours to get used to the unusual feeling. Som say a few days or weeks..
    More even power output can't be bad for active suspension either, so it would not surprise me if an oval ring can improve how active the ML are under climbing. I suspect it's hard to tell how much difference it makes, but it is often pretty small things that make me clear the harder technical climbs or not.

    So what options for oval will we have for the FSA modular cranksets on our Tantrums?

    I was looking at
    http://www.superstarcomponents.com/e...in-chainrings/ for my Abracadabra.
    Looks like they have smoother out the "shelf" were the chain rests that have been said to cause issues in mud.

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  41. #441
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    Look at Absolute Black for oval chainrings Gunnar. I'm assuming you'll need something with a 104mm bcd? You're right about the grip, in fact, I think that's the most noticeable aspect of an oval chainring. In all honesty, it takes no time at all to get used to it, the pedals still travel in the same circle. It just converts your power better and doesn't waste energy at the top and bottom of the pedal stroke.
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  42. #442
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    Sounds good Stevo. I won't bother ordering an oval for my old bike as long as no disaster strucks on Brians delivery time.
    So it was oval (or asymmetric/osymetric) options for the FSA Afterburner Megaexo (or Eagle for the DDS customers) I was thinking of..




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  43. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Westholm View Post
    So what options for oval will we have for the FSA modular cranksets on our Tantrums?
    I highly recommend you check out Wolftooth Components for oval rings. I have one of their ovals on my SS, as well as a stainless cog, and have two of their standard N/W chainrings on other bikes. They're a stand up company to do business with, and I've been happy with all my purchases from them.

  44. #444
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    Not to derail this thread too far, but: I'm using Black by Absolute Black, the cheaper and IMO better-looking rings that Absolute Black only sells through CRC. Their ovality seems to suit my knees quite well. I never had to get used to them; I do immediately notice their absence when I demo bikes that don't have them, though. The knees tell me quickly. The crankset waiting for my Tantrum already has an oval on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by finnlander View Post
    Any progress updates from the factory? I need to sell my old bike to fund parts for my Tantrum but would rather not be bikeless for too long. No problem waiting longer, just would like a ballpark delivery for planning the build.
    Whew....when you don't hear from me, that's the sound of me working....new update shortly....but i do not have a def delivery date yet. Sorry, more details on that later today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    I'll need dimensions to input into Linkage to confirm this. To the Ridemonkey forum!
    You see, there's the problem all along. The dimensions I am using are dimensions from String Theory. Therefore unable to be input into linkage. These dimensions are not even visible to the human eye, much less monkey eyes. They can't even be determined by a 20th scale angled internet photo (the utmost authority in this matter)

    However, I will have empirical proof shortly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    Was that supposed to be 12x142? Thanks.

    I'll be using oval chainrings on mine, too. They help my knees quite a bit, so that is first priority. I have them on all my bikes.
    oh ya, that too. Different length, but same spec for both axles.

    ALSO, this has come up. Seat post diameter is 30.9.

    It was listed as 31.6, which the sample bikes are. I had forgotten that I had changed it, partly due to the advent of droppers and my desire to use a shorter seat tube length for all frame sizes. Since the dropper extends further out, more stress is on the seat tube.

    Using 30.9 instead of 31.6 allows a thicker wall. Slightly heavier, but much stouter in this regard, as well as entire frame stiffness and strength, especially where it is welded to the BB.

    I completely apologize for any confusion. I will post updates everywhere. Also, if any buyer has already purchased a new post that's 31.6, I will do a no cost trade for whatever you bought. Note, this doesn't count if you are just disappointed that you can't use your old post from your old bike, but I'll make you a smoking deal on a new one.

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    I guess I'll have to try oval again. I mentioned I did once, on a customer's Intense during a demo ride. I can't say I didn't like the chainrings, but for sure did not steep climbing in low gears on that bike. At max effort in first or second gear, it was hard to modulate my stroke and not get wheelspin. My customer said it was worse without the oval.

    And since I was coming off my bike, not really a fair comparison.

    While i don't think it will be a big benefit to the missing link suspension, it can't hurt.

    I can see it helping in a steep technical climb, where you are out of gear and about to stall and need one gram more pressure on the cranks as it's fighting your foot to turn backward. It could be the difference.

  49. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    You see, there's the problem all along. The dimensions I am using are dimensions from String Theory. Therefore unable to be input into linkage. These dimensions are not even visible to the human eye, much less monkey eyes. They can't even be determined by a 20th scale angled internet photo (the utmost authority in this matter)However, I will have empirical proof shortly.
    Too funny...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Whew....when you don't hear from me, that's the sound of me working....new update shortly....but i do not have a def delivery date yet. Sorry, more details on that later today.
    I'm happy to hear any update. The most important thing is that progress is being made. Hopefully I'll get to ride it this summer yet.

    Btw, have you checked out the Marin/Polygon bikes with the R3ACT suspension and if so, what do you think of it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Westholm View Post
    I've never been on an oval.
    I've been on an oval ring for a couple years. In the winter I ride a bike with a round ring. It takes me about 5 pedal strokes when switching bikes to get used to the oval ring. Then I don't notice it at all.

    I can't tell any difference in terms of climbing. It's not worse, but I can't say it's better either. If I had two identical bikes in every respect other than the round vs. oval ring I could probably tease out the difference, but either way it's very very small.

    If I am buying a new ring I'll buy round or oval without a second thought.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Quote Originally Posted by finnlander View Post
    I'm happy to hear any update. The most important thing is that progress is being made. Hopefully I'll get to ride it this summer yet.

    Btw, have you checked out the Marin/Polygon bikes with the R3ACT suspension and if so, what do you think of it?
    I looked at it. As you know, there's not a lot of technical explanation to go along with it, so it's difficult to judge, but I did a little write up on it somewhere here. In this thread or another.

    I am posting a new update video very soon today. I think it's pretty cool, hope you guys do. Unfortunately it does not include a firm delivery date, as we are still waiting for tubes. But all the CNC parts are done and that's fantastic news. That's the most challenging and time consuming part.

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    Cool new update video. All the CNC parts are done. This video shows them morphing from solid model to CNC part to complete frame. I hope you like it. It should really give a cool insite into the entire process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    oh ya, that too. Different length, but same spec for both axles.

    ALSO, this has come up. Seat post diameter is 30.9.

    It was listed as 31.6, which the sample bikes are. I had forgotten that I had changed it, partly due to the advent of droppers and my desire to use a shorter seat tube length for all frame sizes. Since the dropper extends further out, more stress is on the seat tube.

    Using 30.9 instead of 31.6 allows a thicker wall. Slightly heavier, but much stouter in this regard, as well as entire frame stiffness and strength, especially where it is welded to the BB.

    I completely apologize for any confusion. I will post updates everywhere. Also, if any buyer has already purchased a new post that's 31.6, I will do a no cost trade for whatever you bought. Note, this doesn't count if you are just disappointed that you can't use your old post from your old bike, but I'll make you a smoking deal on a new one.
    Thats a great offer. Does it matter what brand of post? I bought a Bontrager Drop Line post which only comes in 31.6. Can I exchange this one that will fit? What is the process to do this?

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    My problem with oval rings is I've heard it deteriorates the front shift somewhat. Can't have that.

    Cool video Brian, and I really appreciate you supporting 2* drivetrains.

    Bummed we won't have the bikes for high season, but I didn't really expect them to be ready anyway. But always hard to wait for Christmas morning.

  56. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    My problem with oval rings is I've heard it deteriorates the front shift somewhat. Can't have that.
    I tried ovals with a 2x. The problem wasn't what I expected. I expected the chain to be reluctant to get onto the oval. Nope, that worked fine. But the retention of the oval (which are intended to be 1x) was so good that the front D couldn't knock the chain off without being comically mis-adjusted. Rotor makes ovals (Q-rings) that are made for shifting at a very high cost. I have those on my road-use bikes, as they needed tooth counts much higher than mountain companies provide.

    And now back to our regularly scheduled Tantrum discussions. I've been so busy that I haven't had time to watch the new video yet. I'll have to remedy that.

  57. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    My problem with oval rings is I've heard it deteriorates the front shift somewhat. Can't have that.
    Don't use N/W ovals if you want to shift.

  58. #458
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    I just finally got to view the latest video with the CNC parts. Brian, will those parts be painted on the final product? It's almost a shame to paint such nice machining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    I just finally got to view the latest video with the CNC parts. Brian, will those parts be painted on the final product? It's almost a shame to paint such nice machining.
    ^ anodized

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    Quote Originally Posted by finnlander View Post
    Thats a great offer. Does it matter what brand of post? I bought a Bontrager Drop Line post which only comes in 31.6. Can I exchange this one that will fit? What is the process to do this?
    email me and we'll figure it out.

    Also, if anyone is interested in a few new, 31.6 dropper posts, let me know.......

  61. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    I just finally got to view the latest video with the CNC parts. Brian, will those parts be painted on the final product? It's almost a shame to paint such nice machining.
    The main frame parts will be painted, the rockers and linkage ano'd.

    Trust me, you wouldn't like bare aluminum for long. It gets corroded and ugly pretty quick.

    This includes you guys that ordered the frame raw. Raw is raw. Left alone, it turns to dust.

  62. #462
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    Late breaking update. I just got an email from the tuning guy. He said tubes shipped last week. For some incredibly frustrating reason, by boat, instead of air.....but he said they should be there.

    I'll confirm with the factory tonite and start looking to book my trip....

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    Very exciting! I love all the updates!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    The main frame parts will be painted, the rockers and linkage ano'd.

    Trust me, you wouldn't like bare aluminum for long. It gets corroded and ugly pretty quick.

    This includes you guys that ordered the frame raw. Raw is raw. Left alone, it turns to dust.
    How about a future clear coat option, preferably a satin finish on a vapor blasted rather than raw frame?

  65. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubb View Post
    How about a future clear coat option, preferably a satin finish on a vapor blasted rather than raw frame?
    Oooh that could be good for getting rid of all those "Is that carbon" questions!

    Maybe with som flakes in the clear coat?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubb View Post
    How about a future clear coat option, preferably a satin finish on a vapor blasted rather than raw frame?
    that would work. I even like clear over polished, but that costs.......

  67. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Westholm View Post
    Oooh that could be good for getting rid of all those "Is that carbon" questions!

    Maybe with som flakes in the clear coat?



    Sent fra min XT1562 via Tapatalk
    how bout a faux carbon paint job? with welds. We could say it's new "welded carbon"

  68. #468
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    An interesting video from PB about starting a bike company and getting a bike made in Taiwan:

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/pinkbi...e-company.html
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  69. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    An interesting video from PB about starting a bike company and getting a bike made in Taiwan:

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/pinkbi...e-company.html
    I saw that. Obviously a lot of generalities and glossing over, but I thought it was a pretty good representation of the minefield to navigate with such an endeavor. That's one reason I have been trying to document the whole process. I think it's an interesting story.

  70. #470
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    and a quick update:

    The Tubes,

    have arrived. After much confusion.

    This, really, is just the way it goes. You may recall that the tubing company emailed me last Monday telling me that tubes had been shipped on June 18, although by sea, not by air as specified by the frame factory.

    After posting an update on Kickstarter, I emailed the frame factory, informing them of the impending tubing delivery, which you might have thought they already knew about.

    Instead, they told me that the tubes had not been shipped and would only ship on July 3. I tried to verify with the tubing factory, get shipping documents and tracking info, but could not get a response. But then yesterday, July 3, I receive an email from the frame factory saying that yes, in fact they DID receive tubes on the 3rd after all!!

    Hilarity and welding ensue. They are welding the CS and SS this week, while the TT and DT get mitred. Front triangle welding will commence some time next week.

    I will pull the trigger on flights soon. For expense and efficiency sake, it's best not to spend any more time there than needed. But I certainly need to assemble the first frames and do the destructive testing. I do not plan or need to be there until all frames are finished, but i suppose it is possible. And I certainly plan to bring a couple back with me.

    In the meantime, here's a pic of the SS and CS getting set up in a welding fixture.

    cheers,

    BrianNew innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-cs-jig-s.jpgNew innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-ss-jig-s.jpg

  71. #471
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    Nice!

  72. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryman View Post
    Nice!
    thank you sir here's a little more

    Super Latest Cool Update

    Updates are a lot more fun now that things are picking up steam.....

    Chain stays and seat stays are being welded AND heat treated this week. Down tubes, seat tubes and top tubes will be cut and mitred this week as well.
    I'm relieved on the seat tubes. While it is a normal round tube, it has a proprietary S-bend that I had to open a mold for. This is actually the biggest visual change from the show/demo bikes, which had a straight seat tube. But those bikes also had 445 mm chain stay length. Like everybody else, you don't get something for nothing, so in order to shorten the chain stays (to 428 on the Meltdown), you have to give the rear wheel somewhere to go at 160 mm of travel.
    At that, I was happy I could avoid some of the more complicated seat tube/BB shapes and structures that some other brands have to use to accommodate their suspension design. They are always heavier, rarely stiffer or stronger and certainly more expensive than good old tubes, even S shaped tubes. And the way the bottom of the seat tube ties into the BB lug and the top is braced by the Y in the top tube, it's pretty stout.

    As if on cue, I just got this pic of the seat tubes arrival at the frame factory, wrapped in a bow. Along with this shot of the heat treat racks for the seat stays.

    I will be in the factory the week of June 17. The first front triangles will be welded and heat treated by then. So I will be able to assemble the first frames, check out all of the clearances and functions. And then we put it on a test machine and distort it to hell and back. I'll get some videos of this.

    I plan to spirit a couple frames back with me by the end of the week. I can't say for sure when this first batch of 60 frames will be completed, but I will probably ship the kickstarter frames by air, in 2 batches, as they come off the line.

    cheers,

    BrianNew innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-ss-jig-s.jpgNew innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-st-present-s.jpg

  73. #473
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    Sweet update Brian!
    That package of nicely "hip" bendt ST's really look good with that pink knot on it! I'm in love...

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    Thanks for the updates Brian. Keep 'em coming. Probably works best for me to not have to break in a new bike during the middle of the season anyway ha ha.

  75. #475
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    Can't wait to throw a leg over the finished product BB... you must be antsy as all hell!

  76. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Westholm View Post
    Sweet update Brian!
    That package of nicely "hip" bendt ST's really look good with that pink knot on it! I'm in love...
    I was actually irritated that I had to give up the nice, simple, straight seat tube. But the back wheel has to go somewhere when you shorten the chain stays

  77. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    Thanks for the updates Brian. Keep 'em coming. Probably works best for me to not have to break in a new bike during the middle of the season anyway ha ha.
    dammit......

  78. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    Can't wait to throw a leg over the finished product BB... you must be antsy as all hell!
    you aren't kidding. Tickets are bought. I will be in taiwan next week.

    1) assemble frames

    2) destructive testing

    3) take some back on the plane while figuring out how to get everybody theirs as efficiently as possible

    I really can't wait till everyone gets theirs....

  79. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    I was actually irritated that I had to give up the nice, simple, straight seat tube. But the back wheel has to go somewhere when you shorten the chain stays
    awwww.
    come on now..

    be a little daring


  80. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    awwww.
    come on now..

    be a little daring

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-tandem-1-w.jpgNew innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-tandem-fr-w.jpg

    How 'bout a 9" travel, 27.5 plus, DH tandem with a dual front disc??

  81. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	1145925Click image for larger version. 

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    How 'bout a 9" travel, 27.5 plus, DH tandem with a dual front disc??
    Not sure which accessory I like more - the old THE fenders, or the handcuffs.............

  82. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    I was actually irritated that I had to give up the nice, simple, straight seat tube. But the back wheel has to go somewhere when you shorten the chain stays
    As I manage to visualize it, it looks like ST angle will stay prety steep with help of that s-bend. Much appreciated and goes well with the Tantrum philosophy!
    Forms follows function..

    Sent fra min XT1562 via Tapatalk

  83. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    Not sure which accessory I like more - the old THE fenders, or the handcuffs.............
    Keep in mind, we actually built this bike for Interbike, '99. Don't even think about he handlebar width.

    So it's really a 26, sorta plus with Doublewide rims. I could throw some Gozzoladis on there.

    We also threw in a bottle of clorophyl and a rag to get the stoker on in the first place. Handcuffs and clipped in to keep 'er there.

  84. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Westholm View Post
    As I manage to visualize it, it looks like ST angle will stay prety steep with help of that s-bend. Much appreciated and goes well with the Tantrum philosophy!
    Forms follows function..

    Sent fra min XT1562 via Tapatalk
    I like to keep it between about 74.2 and 74.8 degrees on ST angle. Your cadabra is close to that, right? I was, I think a pretty early proponent of steeper ST angles on the Magic Link bikes. But, going over 75 seemed to introduce some negatives. One, with full seatpost extension, a short legged person like myself has a harder time swinging a leg over. Clip the seat a couple times and fall over like an idiot....not that I've ever done that.

    More seriously, it raises the seated CG (and moves it forward). Good for climbing, not as much for cornering.

    I do understand the climbing benefits, but pretty much claim I have that covered with the geometry variation. This thing feels like 78 degrees when climbing. Same reason I can get away with a 64 degree HT.

  85. #485
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    quickie update

    In Taiwan, where the 12 hour time difference is knockin my dick in the dirt. Finally frame assembly today. Critical day, wish me luck.

    In the meantime, here's some teaser pics of the fr triangle, showing head tube facing and reaming and seat tube reaming operations.


    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-fr-tri.jpgNew innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-headtube-ream.jpgNew innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-set-tube-ream.jpg

  86. #486
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    holy sheet, bikes !

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    Wow its really happening !

  88. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    Wow its really happening !
    Yuhuh. They actually bolted together as if designed that way.....

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-frames-s.jpg

  89. #489
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    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TantrumCycles again.

    Can someone get Brian for me? I am not on the list for one of his bikes but I have really enjoyed him sharing the adventure.

    tia
    "I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." -Douglas Adams.

  90. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TantrumCycles again.

    Can someone get Brian for me? I am not on the list for one of his bikes but I have really enjoyed him sharing the adventure.

    tia
    he'll see your post and answer it, guaranteed.

    right now he has to build some bikes, then break them.

    I am friggin dying for my bike.

  91. #491
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    So f-ing cool... more pics please!

  92. #492
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    I have to admit that reading about this bike from a concept to new bike brand is extremely interesting.

    I hope Tantrum Cycles really takes off.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  93. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Yuhuh. They actually bolted together as if designed that way.....

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Congrats on getting to this point.
    OG Ripley v2
    Carver 420 TI

  94. #494
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    What a wonderful sight! :-)

    Best of luck in the destruction chamber!!!

  95. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Yuhuh. They actually bolted together as if designed that way.....

    Click image for larger version. 

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    You look almost as stoked as I feel for you man. That's awesome. I still haven't pulled the trigger on a bike, but the list is down to 4 "available production bikes" and..well, something you designed.

  96. #496
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    Fantastic! Congrats, Brian. Very cool. I'm saving all these pictures to show people when they ask about the new bike.

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    Congrats Brian! It's gotta feel good to have that final product in your hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TantrumCycles again.

    Can someone get Brian for me? I am not on the list for one of his bikes but I have really enjoyed him sharing the adventure.

    tia
    ya man, buzz me at bb at you know where.

    I figured this whole adventure would be interesting to document and share. It sure is interesting to live it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    So f-ing cool... more pics please!
    more pics when I get home. It's fri morning in Taiwan now. the cool thing is I leave at 7:30 pm, friday nite and land at LAX at 5:00 pm friday nite.

    I get there before I leave. Dr Who???? I don't even need a Tardus.

    Sofa King Cool

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    I can't even describe what this is like. At the start of the week, I had no guarantees of anything. I knew CS ans SS were welded. I knew Fr triangles were "scheduled" this week. I knew parts were made.

    Did I know if anything fit? was made correctly? would actually bolt together?

    None of the above. When the first frame went together like butter, with no swearing, I actually cried just a little and stared at it in stunned stundedness. like wow. How did this happen?

    thanks for taking the ride with me. It really helps to share and not go it alone.

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