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  1. #2101
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    As always cool infos.

    So begs the question - why don't manufactures just go back to smaller volume shocks in the first place? Is there some advantage to large volume with spacers in??

    Would a coil shock work well with the Missing link design? or pointless extra weight with less adjustment?

    Which leads me to another question... do we need to be careful of bulkier shocks and/or with parts sticking out to the sides due to the recessed downtube mount or will just about any 200x57 shock fit? For instance Cane Creek seem to have quite wide cans/parts sticking out on a few of their shocks from what I can see...

  2. #2102
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    if shock manufacturers would post dimensions and stroke then it would be easy to figure out if X fits T

    canecreek, for example, does not post dimensions of their shocks...or I couldn't find it.
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  3. #2103
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    Are there shock dimension limits for the Medium frame that I can work with?... then I can find out some way or another about shocks I'm interested in.

    Despite being top end of my budget the CC shocks do look v nice and I've heard good things - anyone else here had experience with them?

    Was planning to go with RockShox to match the forks but have this nagging feeling I'm kinda stabbing in the dark as to what exactly is an upgrade from the X-Fusion ... is it good plan to go with piggy back if possible? I'm guessing yes...?

  4. #2104
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    As always cool infos.

    So begs the question - why don't manufactures just go back to smaller volume shocks in the first place? Is there some advantage to large volume with spacers in??

    Would a coil shock work well with the Missing link design? or pointless extra weight with less adjustment?

    Which leads me to another question... do we need to be careful of bulkier shocks and/or with parts sticking out to the sides due to the recessed downtube mount or will just about any 200x57 shock fit? For instance Cane Creek seem to have quite wide cans/parts sticking out on a few of their shocks from what I can see...
    The shock are sneaking back on the positive can side. I think they all realized it went overboard. The advantage of spacers really is the tuning ability. The volume is the volume, doesn't matter how it gets there.

    So, if you put an air shock on a really rising rate suspension, say designed for a coil, you'd leave some spacers out compared to a bike designed for an air shock.

    I want to put a coil on sometime to try, but I'm busy and I don't see it as anything but testing for a possible DH bike at this point. For sure it would take some bump rubber tweaking and a rising rate spring.

    And packaging is a HUGE consideration. Not just getting it in, but clearance at full travel. I came THIS close to shooting myself in the foot with that, since I switched to the DVO very late in the process. I originally designed the bike with a Fox rp23 shock, just about the smallest package around, the XF was right there.

    BUT, I will state. Anybody that wants to put a different shock in, ask yourself what you are after? Because the DVO is pretty damned tuneable inside.

    The damping I spec'd? At first, they gave me a shock with standard valving. A quick ride confirmed a very "quality" stroke with great neg spring action, but overdamped.

    So, I asked for one step softer damping across the board. The sent it, it felt good and that's what you all have.

    In my other OTHER spare time, I have my own ideas for an improved stack....time waits for no one......

  5. #2105
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Are there shock dimension limits for the Medium frame that I can work with?... then I can find out some way or another about shocks I'm interested in.

    Despite being top end of my budget the CC shocks do look v nice and I've heard good things - anyone else here had experience with them?

    Was planning to go with RockShox to match the forks but have this nagging feeling I'm kinda stabbing in the dark as to what exactly is an upgrade from the X-Fusion ... is it good plan to go with piggy back if possible? I'm guessing yes...?
    The only thing I can tell you is 200 x 57 for the 160 mm travel and 8 x 18 hardware on both ends.

    The reality is that I have not tried ANY other shocks other than

    XF
    Fox (Float, float X and CTD)
    DVO Topaz

    XF, you know. Works pretty well, but has some limitations.

    Fox? Wouldn't give me ANY valving options, because no other OE uses a softer valving, so they weren't going to make one for me. Sooo a little harsher in the X, with very high pressure needed.

    The Regular non resi Float shock worked ok, about the same as the XF, since it WAS available with softer damping.

    The DVO, plush as butter. Better than any of the above in just about any respect. ALMOST universally loved by customers, at least once we get the Vol right for the big jumpers.

    Get a DVO, peel the stickers off (my one gripe, the stickers) and make your own gold ones!! Make some for me too.

    The only thing I can tell you about ANY other shock is, make sure it fits at both ends of the travel. Make sure it 's full of vol spacers. Make sure it has soft compression damping with no platform.

    having said aLL of that, since you have the XF, they only came with very small Vol spacers. Less needed than the DVO because the can is so small, but on my personal XF shock, I have a bigger one (that I made). So if you need more bottoming resistance, that's pretty easy.

  6. #2106
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    The DVO, plush as butter. Better than any of the above in just about any respect. ALMOST universally loved by customers
    I'm the "almost." I'm a fan of their support team; their staff is ace. Jury's still out on the shock, esp since my bladder NEVER holds pressure. Inflate to 200, go ride. Come back 4 days later, it's down to 140. Repeat.

    Anyway...I plan to post my adventures once I have time.

  7. #2107
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    I'm the "almost." I'm a fan of their support team; their staff is ace. Jury's still out on the shock, esp since my bladder NEVER holds pressure. Inflate to 200, go ride. Come back 4 days later, it's down to 140. Repeat.

    Anyway...I plan to post my adventures once I have time.
    Isn't that the second shock I sent you? Pretty sure I have your first one sitting here untouched.

    Oh, wait, you're talking about the resi can. You will NEVER see the pressure you put in without a gage that retracts the schrader pin first. The vol in the can is so samll that even the fraction that escapes drops it 30 psi in my use.

    So, I pump it up to 230 and forget about it. I actually haven't rechecked any of my test shock, since I'm testing bottoming, etc, I figured I'd notice if it went low.

    Have you tried setting the pressure, then immediately rechecking it?

  8. #2108
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    Yep, second shock. First one wouldn't hold in the main can, so a different issue. I can't pump to 230 in the bladder and forget about it with this one because a week later, it'll be 140 in the bladder. It's dropping a lot more than "gauge disconnect" causes. I've done the immediate recheck, and that reads about ~170 after inflating to 200, which I expect and would count as normal if it stayed there.

    Main can is acting as expected, no issues there. Shock's in my garage (read: not on the bike) for the time being, but I'll get back to it once I successfully alter the disc stack.

  9. #2109
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    Oh, and I do want to add that DVO was AWESOME about getting me a replacement part. Ronnie always answered email, and when he said to call them regarding parts, I got a HUMAN on the phone (Geoff Welch, who is pretty "high up" at DVO) along with Ronnie, had an actual conversation, and they had parts in the mail within 12 hours. Try that with other companies. Big props there.

  10. #2110
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    Yep, second shock. First one wouldn't hold in the main can, so a different issue. I can't pump to 230 in the bladder and forget about it with this one because a week later, it'll be 140 in the bladder. It's dropping a lot more than "gauge disconnect" causes. I've done the immediate recheck, and that reads about ~170 after inflating to 200, which I expect and would count as normal if it stayed there.

    Main can is acting as expected, no issues there. Shock's in my garage (read: not on the bike) for the time being, but I'll get back to it once I successfully alter the disc stack.
    mine does the same. I check bladder pre-ride every time and top it off. it's fine for a ride or next ride, but drops over 4 days. But DVO even says check it all the time.

    is it a problem, or functions as designed ? it is not a problem for -me- is all I can say.

    sure I'd love something I can fill once and forget, like the can or diamond air chamber...but it is an extremely small space, and the seals and valves are quite normal, not lab-grade gas-proof, so [to me] there is zero issue with a small chamber like that, held at 200psi, to droop a bit in a few days and top it off it like checking tire pressure pre-ride.

    I check front and rear tire pre ride, and the bladder.

    if it farted down from 200 to 170 in one 5 hour ride then I'd be asking DVO for a fix.
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  11. #2111
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    Thanks again Brian - DVO does make sense performance wise!... But that green ano ... aggh haha.

    Food for thought with the rest of the info - thanks for the answer re coil - may need to research a few things to fully understand with my limited suspension knowledge but I get the gist of it.

    Really wish I'd been able to take you up on the offer of upgrading to DVO when you sent the frame as was a smashing deal but alas my monies were needed elsewhere...

    Nothing is stopping me from enjoying the bike so far so will ponder my options...

  12. #2112
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    So.......my shock has a big-ass white spacer in it in pretty much the same place you're putting that black one, but I see nothing in your shock in the photo that I tried to include above. Doesn't anyone else's? If not, this could explain how I can't understand why everyone wants tons of volume reducers in theirs. Mine was spine-shatteringly harsh as delivered (what you see plus five volume reducers in the can).

    IMG_20180808_180348124_HDR by ctbtyper, on Flickr

  13. #2113
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    Here's my disc stack as well, which from what I can tell is the "standard" DVO Topaz stack for both rebound and compression.

    IMG_20180808_170252099 by ctbtyper, on Flickr

    IMG_20180808_171912364 by ctbtyper, on Flickr

  14. #2114
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    @Brian.
    Any news on that new no-piggyback shock DVO are working on?
    I imagine it might become a great upgrade from pretymuch anything except maybe the Topaz.
    No leaking piggyback issue. No costly "climb switch" lever.. which we don't need anyway. Maybe some new technology inside also (like gass charged IFP damper Or "Oleo" type damper..?)
    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Are there shock dimension limits for the Medium frame that I can work with?... then I can find out some way or another about shocks I'm interested in.

    Despite being top end of my budget the CC shocks do look v nice and I've heard good things - anyone else here had experience with them?

    Was planning to go with RockShox to match the forks but have this nagging feeling I'm kinda stabbing in the dark as to what exactly is an upgrade from the X-Fusion ... is it good plan to go with piggy back if possible? I'm guessing yes...?

  15. #2115
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    Nowís as good a time as any to relate my adventures with my Outburst. I apologize in advance Ė brevity is not my strong suit, so I totally get it if few people read all this. Iíll try to keep it succinct.

    Iím clearly different than most here on the board. I bought the bike knowing it was overkill for our trails. Iíve been riding overkill bikes for years here because I like not getting hammered by obstacles and they keep me from having more back surgery, which I had twenty-one years ago. I don't get big air, I'm not a hucker, etc.

    Bike: Size S Outburst, built as a 29er for what most here would consider XC duty. Our trails are not very difficult here in the Midwest. I wanted mine to be basically a 140mm trail bike.
    Shock: Topaz

    First ride: 20% sag, 5 volume spacers. Result: Barely used the shock travel, bike was very harsh on impacts, particularly something like a root at high speed. Because Iíve had back surgery, my back lets me know very clearly when it isnít happy with ride quality. After this ride, my back hurt.

    As for the handling, I found that the front would wash out easily and the bike would ďfall intoĒ corners; it was somewhat reluctant to turn-in, and then it would flop into the turn. Historically, Iíve found this to be what happens when one is riding too slack of a bike on our trails. I was using tires that I'm familiar with (use the same combo on my other bikes), so I ruled this out as the cause.

    For the shock, I tried various iterations of volume spacers, settling on 1 as the best option. At this point, I still was leaving 8mm of shock travel on the table after an aggressive (for here) ride. Thatís about 21mm of wheel travel being unused. Decided to try 30% sag.

    For the handling, I installed a 27.5 front wheel with no other changes to the bike, taking the HA from 65.5 to about 66.8. Short version is this solved the handling issues; the lack of front end confidence was gone, I could rail corners, and the bike no longer fell into turns. Cool, info stored in brain.

    Back to the ride quality. After playing around a bit, I was now finally using up the bikeís travel on rides, but that impact harshness remained. Bike climbed like a scared goat, but I needed to get rid of those impacts. 30% sag was a good thing, though, so Iíve stayed with that.

    Bike felt like it has too much high-speed compression damping (note: I always run rear shocks wide open; never use climb switches, and wasnít going to start on a bike that climbs as well as this one does); mid- and low-speed felt pretty good. Researching the DVO shock, I hatched a plan on what to do internally to reduce HSC while keeping changes to the other speed ranges (and rebound) to a minimum.

    In the process of doing that, I FUBARíed the damper rod. Not knowing if DVO could get me a new one or how long it would take, I bought a 2017 Rockshox Monarch RT3 Debonair for a great price. This shock had the L/L tune (low compression, low rebound), which is why I got it. I never met a shock with adjustable rebound that couldnít be cranked up enough for me, so I figured the L/L would provide enough rebound while hopefully helping with my theory that reduced HSC was what I need.

    Shock did pretty much exactly what I hoped and wanted. Those sharp impacts are gone now; bike is on-par or better than what Iíve been riding for years now (Intense Tracer VP 26er with Cane Creek CCDB Air), and it clearly pedals/climbs better.

    In the meantime, DVO (Ronnie and Geoff) got a new damper rod to me. There are a few hurdles to go, but I intend on trying my ideas on the disc stack because, well, I have to. I used to tune shocks for a living, and I find it to be a great deal of fun. I want to make the DVO work because I think it will be very good overall with reduced HSC.

    Back to the handling: I own the same front wheel/tire combo in both 27.5 and 29, so I did back-to-back rides on the same trail, same day with them to see the effects. I realize that there are other factors (BB height, etc.), but this showed again that for around here and my style, I want a steeper head angle. I plan on installing the 1.5į Works Components headset to steepen the bike to 67į, allowing me to go back to the 29er front wheel. I bought the bike to try a 29er, and thatís where I want to end up. Thatíll be a while, though, as I donít want to screw that up, and Iím not sure I trust the local shops to get the WC aligned correctly.

    So thereís the story. I feel like Iím on an island with this one, based on everyone elseís settings, but I gotta go with what works for me. I need a plush bike that is more of a burly XC than all-mountain (remember that term?), and now I have mine working great. I'll update as I make the additional changes, but with my work and race schedule (cars, not bikes), I don't know how long that will take.

    Bottom line: Brian, your suspension design is definitely something new and does what you say it does. I had fun solving the riddle to get where I am now with it, and I have noticed that the segment PR's I'm setting are generally on climbing segments. I think that clearly points to the efficiency of your design. I mentioned earlier that my old bike felt like the chain was stretchy while pedaling in comparison, something I never noticed before. Looking forward to more rides for years to come on this frame.

    Ok, long enough...

  16. #2116
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    So.......my shock has a big-ass white spacer in it in pretty much the same place you're putting that black one, but I see nothing in your shock in the photo that I tried to include above. Doesn't anyone else's? If not, this could explain how I can't understand why everyone wants tons of volume reducers in theirs. Mine was spine-shatteringly harsh as delivered (what you see plus five volume reducers in the can).

    IMG_20180808_180348124_HDR by ctbtyper, on Flickr
    1) that white spacer is tiny compared to what I'm putting in. But again, if you're not jumping, you don't need it.

    2) If it was harsh, something is wrong. Although 20% sag is a little stiff for XC riding.
    I'd go 30-35 for sure.

    3) if the Neg spring is not working right, it will be stupid harsh. You can tell by letting the air out of the shock. If it doesn't self compress, the Neg spring is not working.

    Does ANY other tantrum owner think the DVO is harsh at all??

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    Did you confirm with DVO that you have the standard valving as opposed to the lighter package I spec? if so, ask them to send you that, N/C.

    BTW. Geoff Welch has really helped whip the place into shape, he started full time this year.

  18. #2118
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Did you confirm with DVO that you have the standard valving as opposed to the lighter package I spec? if so, ask them to send you that, N/C.
    What you see in my photos above for the disc stack is exactly what other folks (not Tantrum owners) have posted as the stack that is in their "standard" DVO Topaz, dating back before there were Tantrum Kickstarter bikes. I can contact DVO to confirm. I'd be very curious as to what stack goes into the Tantrum shocks.

    Does ANY other tantrum owner think the DVO is harsh at all??
    I know I haven't seen anyone here that thought so, which has completely baffled me given the way mine is. My shock sucks down when you deflate it, so neg should be working.

    How about the white spacer? Anyone else have one of those in theirs? I didn't give it a second thought until I saw Brian's post with all the spacers in it.

  19. #2119
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    What you see in my photos above for the disc stack is exactly what other folks (not Tantrum owners) have posted as the stack that is in their "standard" DVO Topaz, dating back before there were Tantrum Kickstarter bikes. I can contact DVO to confirm. I'd be very curious as to what stack goes into the Tantrum shocks.



    I know I haven't seen anyone here that thought so, which has completely baffled me given the way mine is. My shock sucks down when you deflate it, so neg should be working.

    How about the white spacer? Anyone else have one of those in theirs? I didn't give it a second thought until I saw Brian's post with all the spacers in it.
    they gave me the spec for "my" stack....it's somewhere around here. it would be unfortunate if they sent me some shocks without changing it. But even at that, I rode it with the standard stack and no way was it ever harsh. Just a little "slow".

    If someone feels differently about their bike, speak up. when you hit something. I'll say almost anything, from a 1" root to a 10" curb, the rear end should move out of the way so fast you think the tire momentarily went flat.

    If not, something is wrong.

    Some people have the small white one. If you were more of an XC app, I used that one. if you were more of a jumper, I used some that were bigger, but nowhere near as large as the latest. And they were applied inconsistently, since I was modifying some Fox initially, then started making my own.

    What PSI were you running in the main can? for what rider weight?

  20. #2120
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    I'm getting old; I don't clearly remember what psi I was running. I didn't need to adjust it for a couple months (like I said, the main can was holding fine, just had to fill the bladder each time), and now I've been running a different shock with way different value for nearly a month as well as another bike before I had the other shock. I want to say it was right around 200 psi with one volume reducer for 160-165 lb of rider/gear to get 30% sag.

  21. #2121
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    I have had a really strange experience with bladder pressure. I am blowing through rear end travel when simply boosting off small rock outcroppings onto smooth trail. I pumped up bladder to 200psi, removed pump only to hear quite a hiss, checked pressure and it read 140psi tried over & over. Went and bought a shock pump that isolates the valve and releases the valve pin before removing hose and itís the same story. Iíve tried attaching the hose most of the way and pressurizing the hose also.

    Will play with it more. I have 5 spacers in positive and negative. Looking forward to trying the new bottom out bumper.

    Iíve been out with injury since spring and havenít been able to test many settings.

  22. #2122
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    I'm getting old; I don't clearly remember what psi I was running. I didn't need to adjust it for a couple months (like I said, the main can was holding fine, just had to fill the bladder each time), and now I've been running a different shock with way different value for nearly a month as well as another bike before I had the other shock. I want to say it was right around 200 psi with one volume reducer for 160-165 lb of rider/gear to get 30% sag.
    sounds close enough. what psi in the Rockshox?

    Maybe I'll send you the shock off my outburst to try.

    Speaking of shocks, did you get a 200 x 50 mm shock? That's what's used for the 140 mm travel

  23. #2123
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelfunman View Post
    I have had a really strange experience with bladder pressure. I am blowing through rear end travel when simply boosting off small rock outcroppings onto smooth trail. I pumped up bladder to 200psi, removed pump only to hear quite a hiss, checked pressure and it read 140psi tried over & over. Went and bought a shock pump that isolates the valve and releases the valve pin before removing hose and itís the same story. Iíve tried attaching the hose most of the way and pressurizing the hose also.

    Will play with it more. I have 5 spacers in positive and negative. Looking forward to trying the new bottom out bumper.

    Iíve been out with injury since spring and havenít been able to test many settings.
    I've been meaning to do this for some time. I now have a glorious test/demo fleet of 7 bikes. All having various levels of riding time and time since checking pressures.

    The first thing I did was check the pressure drop with 2 different DVO pumps. Same result. Set at 230, unscrew (not completely, just enough to let it out), recheck at 170.

    60 psi drop in every shock. Now, obviously, the hose if full and it all escapes when released, accounting for at least most of the hiss. The argument is whether the schrader pins seals up before the pressure change allows it to escape the resi.

    In F1/Indy we used a nitrogen tank with an isolater pin to be sure, but you are getting the same drop.

    But, of course when you reattach, the hose has to fill up as well, so it will be lower than what was in the can.

    Anyway, I use 230 as a compromise. I figure if it drops 60 psi, that would = to 170 fill, which is DVO's recommended minimum.

    Now the bad news, the results of my pressure check today.

    my wife's bike, admittedly the least critical although it got demo'd at Dirt Fest, PA in April), had 30 psi in the can.......She does ride the bike on part of the same trail I ride, but only uses about 3/4 of the travel. Still, it WAS set at 230 at some point......

    I had 4 bikes at 80

    Two bikes were at 105, which if you discount the 60psi, would put them at 165, but one of them the Albino Lizard Shinning Monster Truck Beast, was last checked a couple days ago when I put the latest spacer in..at 230. So if it didn't lose any, it would have been at 170. Call that 65 psi down in 2-3 days.

    Funny, I'm a shock guy, but I can be a lazy shock guy. I wasn't TESTING resi pressures anymore, so I stopped caring, plus with 7 bikes, they have a tendency to be checked only right before they're ridden, simply because I'll set them up for each rider.

    Lesson learned AGAIN. We actually visited this when Gunnar got the very first KS bike.......maybe thugh/hoped it was isolated.

    Lesson learned. Yes, along with TP, which I am rigorous about, check the freakin resi AT LEAST every 2-3 days.

  24. #2124
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    sounds close enough. what psi in the Rockshox?

    Maybe I'll send you the shock off my outburst to try.

    Speaking of shocks, did you get a 200 x 50 mm shock? That's what's used for the 140 mm travel
    160-165 for Rockshox and 30%. Yep, 200x51 to match the DVO.

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    I had noticed the same thing with the bladder pressure. Pump it up to 200 check it a week later and it was usually down around 110. I just kept pumping it up before a ride. It did seem to make some difference in plushness. This is of course back when I had a bike. (Heavy sigh)

  26. #2126
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    There's a trail in my area that is new, and last year while riding it I thought, "I'll bet the Tantrum would dominate on this." I finally got to ride my mostly-sorted Tantrum on that trail this weekend. Yep, the bike was great as I had hoped! I admittedly don't have that many rides on this trail, but my two laps yesterday were a PR and #2. I think the efficiency really pays off. I wish that trail were closer.

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    I thought it was time to post a pic of my Lizard. Here in Chiemgau, approaching the Chiemsee for a bath after having mastered the Hochplatte tour in the hottest day of the hottest summer ever.

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-2018-08-09hochplatte.jpg
    Last edited by lavolpeeluva; 6 Days Ago at 01:58 AM.

  28. #2128
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    One Year Ago....I think this is when I actually became a bike company. My first frame delivery. I wasn't even intimidated, but I had no idea the adventures that were to follow to get all the bikes delivered.

    But I did.

    Now I have to figure out how to grow forward.

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-yogi.jpg

  29. #2129
    CTB
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    I'm glad you made it through and I got one of them. Rode it again last night in full 29er mode on our local root-fest trail. It was fantastic. I'm very happy with how I have it dialed in. Once I get that headset swapped, it'll be even better. Gonna be my favorite bike. I enjoyed watching my friend on his hardtail in front of me standing for every root impact while I just pedaled away on the seat and let the suspension do its thing. Which it did.

  30. #2130
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    Time to chime in....I'm putting more miles on my "murtnat" and the best way to give a ride report is simply ride your old bike and it becomes crystal clear. The bike does everything Brian says it does. I'm riding mostly tight xc northeast trails and figured it might be too much bike. I would never believe a slack, 160mm travel, 30 lb. bike could be so lively, quick and efficient. My bike is a small 29"/27.5", Xfusion rear shock and 140 dvo diamond.

  31. #2131
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleR View Post
    Time to chime in....I'm putting more miles on my "murtnat" and the best way to give a ride report is simply ride your old bike and it becomes crystal clear. The bike does everything Brian says it does. I'm riding mostly tight xc northeast trails and figured it might be too much bike. I would never believe a slack, 160mm travel, 30 lb. bike could be so lively, quick and efficient. My bike is a small 29"/27.5", Xfusion rear shock and 140 dvo diamond.
    You and CTB have similar but different setups. You have a 140 mm fork with 160 mm rear. and mixed wheels. And CTB has a 140 mm rear with ? fork?

    The amount of travel in the rear does not affect the static geo, but it does affect the active by allowing the rear to go deeper in the travel in fast stuff=slacker. And you start with more sag so have more "steepening" when climbing.

    So, CTB, if you wanted, you could put a 200 x 57 shock on your bike, with no detriment at all. Normally, more travel means=pedals like shit, but, you know.

    But I imagine your trails are not entirely dissimilar, same with mine in Indiana and probably 127 up there somewhere. In other words, a little more XC/trail and less DH/Enduro like my west coast and Colo guys.

    And I admit, I am a little naively surprised that everyone hasn't fallen in love with my 63 deg HTA. At first, I wasn't either, but I kept riding it because of the aforementioned west coast. And going slacker and slacker. And I kept riding it in Indiana. And I adapted. I learned to stay forward in the corners, like a motox bike, turn in early compared to a steeper bike.

    once I got aggressive, I want it all the time. I claim unbias, I get to ride everything. I have another, near identical bike at 65 deg HTA. In repeated, back to back to back to back testing, I'm faster thru corners on 63. Not even DH corners, but 10-30 mph S turns and sweepers, berms, tight hairpins.

    I just have more confidence, more grip and more consistent grip. I'm not saying everyone can or should ride like me and I'm sure many of you are faster, but y testing, for me is pretty thorough. I'll ride each version until I forget about the other version and completely adapt, then switch it and do it again.

    I might almost be drawing to the conclusion the the Shinning, 160 mm 29er fr and rr, does not give up anything to my fav race bike Shinedown, 160 mm 29fr/160 mm 27.5 rr.

    And next year, DVO are making 170-180 29er forks.......I'm in. But I digress.

  32. #2132
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    Hi Brian, I haven't been following this thread closely, but when is the next release of frames? When can I order and when would I expect one to be delivered? Cheers

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

  33. #2133
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    You and CTB have similar but different setups. You have a 140 mm fork with 160 mm rear. and mixed wheels. And CTB has a 140 mm rear with ? fork?
    I have a 140 fork, but when I mix wheels, the 275 goes up front to steepen the bike.

    So, CTB, if you wanted, you could put a 200 x 57 shock on your bike, with no detriment at all. Normally, more travel means=pedals like shit, but, you know.
    I wondered if the frame had clearance for that at full compression. I have a few 200x57 shocks laying around; one of them should fit the Tantrum. Could be fun to try, though I don't really want more slack at any time form where I am now.

    But I imagine your trails are not entirely dissimilar, same with mine in Indiana and probably 127 up there somewhere. In other words, a little more XC/trail and less DH/Enduro like my west coast and Colo guys.

    And I admit, I am a little naively surprised that everyone hasn't fallen in love with my 63 deg HTA.
    I'd imagine our trails are similar. That's part of why I bought the bike, figuring you're from a similar terrain to what I have. At one point you were quoted a saying something like, "I don't have sustained climbs where I live. Our climbs are sudden and sharp, and I don't want to flip a lever for that." Boom. Exactly what is needed here.

    I've found the bike to be very body-position-sensitive at the slacker angle. If I happen to slip into my motorcycle roadracing habit even slightly and lean into the turn with my body, it flops and loses front traction. That doesn't happen at the steeper angles. I also can feel how much I have to horse the bike through some of our fast (for us) switchbacks; I have to consciously steer the bike through rather than think it, if that makes any sense. That's not unique to the Tantrum, it's a trait I've noticed any time I ride something slack around here.

  34. #2134
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    I'd imagine our trails are similar. That's part of why I bought the bike, figuring you're from a similar terrain to what I have. At one point you were quoted a saying something like, "I don't have sustained climbs where I live. Our climbs are sudden and sharp, and I don't want to flip a lever for that." Boom. Exactly what is needed here.

    I've found the bike to be very body-position-sensitive at the slacker angle. If I happen to slip into my motorcycle roadracing habit even slightly and lean into the turn with my body, it flops and loses front traction. That doesn't happen at the steeper angles. I also can feel how much I have to horse the bike through some of our fast (for us) switchbacks; I have to consciously steer the bike through rather than think it, if that makes any sense. That's not unique to the Tantrum, it's a trait I've noticed any time I ride something slack around here.
    I've ridden a bit in Mich (in fact in most states). A bit on Potowatami (I've been to Hell, dissappointed I couldn't get a "to Hell and back t-shirt)

    Some other Detroit, Ann Arbor and Grand Rapids area stuff I can't remember, from the Indy car days. I'd always take my bike on the road and ride.

    Similar enough. Even if there are "sustained" climbs, like further south in Brown County, they are rough and technical. Don't need to be muckin about with locked suspension.

    I don't even use a dropper in Indiana, including Brown County. A lot of people do and expressed surprise that I don't, but it's just not steep and/or gnarly enough here.

    I agree with your comments on body position and to me, that's a huge advantage. When I ride upfront and aggressive, it just turns. But, I'm talkin feet on the pegs, head over the bars, in a crouch.

    And laying back (being a bit more centered really) in the fast rough stuff lets it rake out a bit, extend the fork. This is all kinda moto riding, you have to compress the fork or the bike won't turn, but when you drive it in hard, it does.

    I rode a lot of dangerous street bike (Kawasaki drum brake triples) but never road raced, but I think the trees around here would scare me off anything like that. See my neck brace in earlier photo. Riding forward lets me get my head and upper body around the trees sooner.

    I don't know, it's weird to try to describe how you ride and why. And probably if I never rode out west, I wouldn't be riding 63 HTA. I started at 66,then 2 yrs ago at Sea Otter I went to 64. Came back here and didn't like it. Changed it to 65. Went out west and missed my 64. Put it back and started to love it here. Went 63 on the production bikes and never looked back.

    but in the end, I'm selling my suspension design and just trying to package the rest of the frame to fit the infinite array of body sizes, shapes, weights and ALL manner of riding conditions, rocks, roots, mud, desert, steep, flat, tight, fast, jumps, you name it.

    And that doesn't include preferences and riding styles. I'm a motocrossing DH racer....that COULD be reflected in my choices. I mean, I'm looking forward to a 180 mm 29er front for Indiana

    I do intend for the bike to do it all and be versatile. So I'm glad you got it dialed for you, although the 27.5 fr/29 rr freaks me out.

  35. #2135
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    I've ridden a bit in Mich (in fact in most states). A bit on Potowatami (I've been to Hell, dissappointed I couldn't get a "to Hell and back t-shirt)
    Poto, one of our best. Bummer about the shirt. Note that here in the D, Hell does in fact freeze over, every year for long periods of time.

    I don't even use a dropper in Indiana, including Brown County. A lot of people do and expressed surprise that I don't, but it's just not steep and/or gnarly enough here.
    Exactly how I feel here. All the magazines keep telling me I need 800mm bars (my friend who hooked his bars between the narrow trees here might have something to say about that...) and a dropper post. Around here? Not needed or wanted.

    So I'm glad you got it dialed for you, although the 27.5 fr/29 rr freaks me out.
    That's just for quick HA change testing. Final product is gonna be 29/29.

  36. #2136
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    So while the rest of us wait patiently for a version 2 Tantrum, or a licensed version of another brand, I have some questions...

    a) I like to climb tech. Do current owners think the bike works better sitting and spinning, or stand and mashing?

    2) I also ride only SS. Anyone have any thoughts on doing a SS conversion?

    d) I had a dream(nightmare) that I also missed out on a version 2.

    vi) Keen to know if wheel flop affects slow tech rock climbs for anyone.

    3) Purple.
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  37. #2137
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    it climbs everything better in all modes

    don't know why the term wheel flop even comes up, I have zero issue with this bike navigating uphill switchbacks and downhill swoopys and tight squirrel paths and whatnot
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  38. #2138
    CTB
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    The bike climbs very well. The active geo works just like Brian says it does on the climbs. No weaving, etc. Makes a noticeable difference.

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