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  1. #1901
    CTB
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    If you look at both dropouts side-by-side, you'll see what I mean. They have a different relationship between the CS and SS, such that it may put the rockers in a slightly different orientation when unloaded, which would then potentially make the BB change different from just the axle height changes. Without disconnecting them and trying it, I can't say for sure what the end result would be. When I have time to show pictures of the two, it'll make more sense. It's a fun thought exercise to look at them and try to figure out what happens.

  2. #1902
    WillWorkForTrail
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    If you look at both dropouts side-by-side, you'll see what I mean. They have a different relationship between the CS and SS, such that it may put the rockers in a slightly different orientation when unloaded, which would then potentially make the BB change different from just the axle height changes. Without disconnecting them and trying it, I can't say for sure what the end result would be. When I have time to show pictures of the two, it'll make more sense. It's a fun thought exercise to look at them and try to figure out what happens.
    Fair enough. But your original question was what would the 29er wheel do in the 275 dropouts. Hence my answer.

  3. #1903
    CTB
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    That's my fault, I should have been more clear. My bike is already a 29er; my question was really "how would 27.5 dropouts change the 29er geo, if it were possible." I think most folks' bikes are 27.5, though, which I think yours is too. I think we're coming from the opposite viewpoints, which I wasn't clear about. My bad - the perils of the internet.

  4. #1904
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    Two silly questions:
    1) Can a 29er wheel fit with the 27.5 dropouts installed? My eye tells me "no," or at least not with my 29x2.2 tire.
    2) If the answer to 1) is "yes," what does it do to the geo? With just a quick look, I couldn't tell what the result would do to BB, HA, etc.

    Thanks for humoring a guy who always noodles things in his head...
    Hey everyone, I am just returning from another trip and trying to catch up on what I missed.

    first thing, Dirt Fest in PA next week. I'll have an o-fish-all booth an e'rythin

    maybe even bikes to ride.

    However:

    1) a 29" wheel will not fit in 27.5 dropouts. Max rear is about 27.5 X 2.5 in those.

  5. #1905
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    I have both dropouts and was comparing them - I was hoping someone had tried it so that I could avoid taking the bike apart.

    I can't say for sure that the BB would be raised since the SS and CS relationship is different between the two dropouts. The axle is "lower" in the 275 dropout, but the SS location is very different as well. Not sure how that would move things around. I think it's moot since it really does look like there wouldn't be room for a 29er in the 275 dropout setup.

    When I have time, I'll take some pics of the dropouts next to each other.
    IF you could put a 29" tire in the 27.5 dropouts, it would raise the BB, because it would most likely be a larger diameter.

    The more interesting question might be, what happens when you put a 27.5 wheel in 29er dropouts? I did this for the first time for Sea Otter, considered racing it but didn't, just for familiarity reasons.

    The HTA and BB are about .2 degrees steeper/couple mm higher. The CS is 13 mm longer.This is all with a 27.5 x 2.5 Maxxis DHR. This bike was raced by a demo rider rider at Sea Otter and finished 5th in men's 30-34 Cat 2.

    I'll post his review here shortly.

    Still catching up and apologize for delays corresponding. Crazy amount of media to keep up with

  6. #1906
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    >The HTA and BB are about .2 degrees steeper/couple mm higher.

    You mean slacker and lower. I think it would work well although I"m still not a fan of these super slack HA on trail bikes.

  7. #1907
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Hey everyone, I am just returning from another trip and trying to catch up on what I missed.

    first thing, Dirt Fest in PA next week. I'll have an o-fish-all booth an e'rythin

    maybe even bikes to ride.

    However:

    1) a 29" wheel will not fit in 27.5 dropouts. Max rear is about 27.5 X 2.5 in those.
    If you're hitting Dirt Fest any chance you hitting the DC area after?
    OG Ripley v2
    Carver 420 TI

  8. #1908
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Hey everyone, I am just returning from another trip and trying to catch up on what I missed.

    first thing, Dirt Fest in PA next week. I'll have an o-fish-all booth an e'rythin

    maybe even bikes to ride.

    However:

    1) a 29" wheel will not fit in 27.5 dropouts. Max rear is about 27.5 X 2.5 in those.
    Please bring bikes! I値l be there and I致e been dying to demo one.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #1909
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    Quote Originally Posted by visus View Post
    Please bring bikes! I値l be there and I致e been dying to demo one.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I will have a few bikes. And you are first on the list.

    When would you like to ride?

    What size? which model?

  10. #1910
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    Hey guys - what cranks are ya'll running and has anyone had crank flex and chainstay clipping issues under power... I went for a GXP style crank (Truvative Descendant alloy version) with Hope BB and hope GXP adapter.

    If I crank it uphill my current setup is flexing enough when left pedal is under force to pull the right crank over to clip the chainstay

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180510_170017.jpg

    Going to see if possible to add a another spacer but if not I'd rather go with a setup that has been proven to work under 'proper' use

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180510_170106.jpgNew innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180510_171924.jpg

  11. #1911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Westholm View Post
    Even if you'd fit a skinny enough 29"tyre to clear the bottom of the CS, the tyre would rub on thec SS at full compression.
    But 29" dropouts should coming any day now..
    Brian - Any update on that?

    www.tantrumcycles.com
    I'm still waiting on the 29er dropouts as well. Brian,is there any progress or does the continued silence on the subject mean not anytime so it soon? I understand you're busy but it a quick update would be appreciated.

  12. #1912
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Hey guys - what cranks are ya'll running and has anyone had crank flex and chainstay clipping issues under power... I went for a GXP style crank (Truvative Descendant alloy version) with Hope BB and hope GXP adapter.

    If I crank it uphill my current setup is flexing enough when left pedal is under force to pull the right crank over to clip the chainstay
    I haven't had any issues with mine. But it's a 2x that I used a Oneupcomponents conversion on to make it 1x.

    This was on my receipt:
    Shimano XT M785 10 Speed Double Chainset Black
    Black, 104mm, 38.24t, 175mm, - sku322099

  13. #1913
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    Work with a file the crank in the relevant point, 1mm should do, and good it is.

  14. #1914
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    Lavolpeeluva - hmm yeah I've seen a few people recommend this on other forums I'll keep filing the crank as a last resort as so far it's hitting the chainstay quite heavily under reasonable force... not going to risk what might happen if really giving it some...

    Going to be interesting to see if I am able to fit the extra spacer with the GXP system.

    Flow - what kind of clearance are you getting at the chainstay with the XT crank arms?

  15. #1915
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    I will have a few bikes. And you are first on the list.

    When would you like to ride?

    What size? which model?
    Anything in a large ... just really curious about the missing link suspension. Looks like it値l be a rainy weekend, but I知 sure it値l still be fun. See you there!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #1916
    because GIANT
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    SRAM GX as Brian shipped with his full working man build

    my drive side crank is not as close as that. a bit further away
    like your non-drive side


    and I have stood this bike on stiff rock climbs and no rubs
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  17. #1917
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    SRAM GX as Brian shipped with his full working man build

    my drive side crank is not as close as that. a bit further away
    like your non-drive side


    and I have stood this bike on stiff rock climbs and no rubs
    Thanks 127.0.0.1 - yeah ... just emailing back and forth to Brian to try to figure if my frame is flexing more than it should or I just happened to choose a crank with slightly too narrow spacing, unable to accommodate the frame's natural flex under power... frustrating thing about the GXP BB style is lack of adjustability... extra spacers just not an option.

    Kinda surprised I didn't get any chainstay clipping on my first ride - but I was taking it easy :P

  18. #1918
    keo
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Thanks 127.0.0.1 - yeah ... just emailing back and forth to Brian to try to figure if my frame is flexing more than it should or I just happened to choose a crank with slightly too narrow spacing, unable to accommodate the frame's natural flex under power... frustrating thing about the GXP BB style is lack of adjustability... extra spacers just not an option.

    Kinda surprised I didn't get any chainstay clipping on my first ride - but I was taking it easy :P
    I had this issue with the SRAM X01 cranks that came with my build, I switched to GX cranks which have a wider Q factor and that fixed the issue (I also switched to 170 mm crank arms to help with the seat post insertion restriction). Also I had this issue at my weight of ~200lbs but my wife @~160 lbs did not have this issue with the X01 cranks, so there is likely a weight/force component to the issue.

  19. #1919
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    I was getting crank rub under power using Next SL cranks when I had boots on it. I spaced it out as much as I could and without boots it cleared. When I ran XT aluminum cranks I had no problem once I spaced it properly. I'm talking just 1-2mm of spacing nothing radical. That's another reason its good to run a boost rear hub as the chainline starts to get a little more outboard. But yeah if you're looking at cranks you'll want something with more not less Q most likely.

  20. #1920
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    Awesome thanks guys - good to know I'm not alone in this and seems pretty easy to fix with cranks that have a bit extra 'Q' ... going to try the cheaper potential fix suggested by Brian first... spacing the BB cup out on drive side a mm or 2 to give it a little extra resistance against the forces from cranks under power... I have gut feeling it will help but not enough for me to be relaxed when out on the trail that I can give it some without digging a trench through my chainstay :/

    Love the Truvative Descendant cranks though so might treat my hardtail to an upgrade :P

  21. #1921
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    73 mm BB info:

    I've had these pictures for some time, as a few of you had mentioned crank rub before. while I haven't personally dealt with all cases, the ones I have dealt with and the bikes I have built have no rub if the BB is properly spaced.

    A few basics:

    BB shell width is nominally 73 mm (mine seem to be more like 72.5)

    BB/Crank dimensions allowed for a (min 3 mm) chain guide to be placed under the drive side BB, before ISGC tabs. In other words, the drive side cup is designed to be spaced away from the BB shell, the non drive is not.

    BB cups vary from 10-12 mm wide, depending on seal width. If you added 24 mm to a 73 mm BB shell, you have 97 mm of total width.

    The SRAM cranks I have (XO carbon) have about 102 mm of spread between crank arms, at the spindle.

    102 - 97= 5 mm. This math might indicate 5 mm of spacer under the drive side BB cup would fit perfectly.

    My builds all seem to end up in this range, ALTHOUGH keep in mind, 0.5 mm is more than enough to go from a freely spinning crank to completely locked up. This is the most important point. Be patient, use fine increments and you can get it right. Or at least better, before you start buying new cranks.

    The cranks don't bind.

    The cranks don't rub.

    I thru away the wavy washer.

    If anything, give the drive side more gap. Any bike will try to rub the drive side arm, simply because the chain is bending the frame in that direction. The non-drive side will never rub.

    Here's a couple pics. While your crank/bb combo may vary in dimensions, the math still has to add up. For reference, this is a wheels mfg BB.
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-bbcup.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-bbwidth.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-crank-spread.jpg

  22. #1922
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    Thanks Brian! Have BB cup spacers on order - will report back once I have things as spaced as possible without binding

  23. #1923
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Flow - what kind of clearance are you getting at the chainstay with the XT crank arms?
    I can fit my finger between the crank and the chainstay at the closest point.

    I feel like the bike is quite stiff and feels solid under power climbing. On a road trip this week putting in the miles with no issues.

  24. #1924
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flow Chaser View Post
    I can fit my finger between the crank and the chainstay at the closest point.

    I feel like the bike is quite stiff and feels solid under power climbing. On a road trip this week putting in the miles with no issues.
    Thanks Flow

    Yeah I don't remember mine feeling flexy so should be all good once I have this spacer/ crank / bb situ sorted.

  25. #1925
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Hey guys - what cranks are ya'll running and has anyone had crank flex and chainstay clipping issues under power... I went for a GXP style crank (Truvative Descendant alloy version) with Hope BB and hope GXP adapter.
    Boring old XT M8000 single ring cranks and bottom bracket here. No issues with flex or clearance.

  26. #1926
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    Anybody know the max seat post insertion on a size Large Outburst frame?

  27. #1927
    Tantrumcycles #1
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    210mm insertion length on my size Large frame (minus 2-3mm on my clamp)

    Note that some droppers might catch on the cable mount if not centered as on my Bikeyoke, or pivoting as on some posts!

    www.tantrumcycles.com

  28. #1928
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    Thanks! In your photo of the post inserted, is it all the way down, or does it have more room to go?

    One more please: What's the measurement from the top of your seat post clamp to the top of the bottom bracket?

  29. #1929
    Tantrumcycles #1
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    Inserted all the way in that photo ( to check max insertion.. deducted what's left with the total possible insertion length of dropper = my answer ;-) )

    ST length seems to be 465mm..

    www.tantrumcycles.com

  30. #1930
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    Thanks^^^
    For comparison, my MED Outburst measures 410mm from the top of the seat tube to the top of the BB. (where yours is 465).

    max insertion of the seat tube is about 210 on yours, mine is 150mm.

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