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  1. #1901
    CTB
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    If you look at both dropouts side-by-side, you'll see what I mean. They have a different relationship between the CS and SS, such that it may put the rockers in a slightly different orientation when unloaded, which would then potentially make the BB change different from just the axle height changes. Without disconnecting them and trying it, I can't say for sure what the end result would be. When I have time to show pictures of the two, it'll make more sense. It's a fun thought exercise to look at them and try to figure out what happens.

  2. #1902
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    If you look at both dropouts side-by-side, you'll see what I mean. They have a different relationship between the CS and SS, such that it may put the rockers in a slightly different orientation when unloaded, which would then potentially make the BB change different from just the axle height changes. Without disconnecting them and trying it, I can't say for sure what the end result would be. When I have time to show pictures of the two, it'll make more sense. It's a fun thought exercise to look at them and try to figure out what happens.
    Fair enough. But your original question was what would the 29er wheel do in the 275 dropouts. Hence my answer.

  3. #1903
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    That's my fault, I should have been more clear. My bike is already a 29er; my question was really "how would 27.5 dropouts change the 29er geo, if it were possible." I think most folks' bikes are 27.5, though, which I think yours is too. I think we're coming from the opposite viewpoints, which I wasn't clear about. My bad - the perils of the internet.

  4. #1904
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    Two silly questions:
    1) Can a 29er wheel fit with the 27.5 dropouts installed? My eye tells me "no," or at least not with my 29x2.2 tire.
    2) If the answer to 1) is "yes," what does it do to the geo? With just a quick look, I couldn't tell what the result would do to BB, HA, etc.

    Thanks for humoring a guy who always noodles things in his head...
    Hey everyone, I am just returning from another trip and trying to catch up on what I missed.

    first thing, Dirt Fest in PA next week. I'll have an o-fish-all booth an e'rythin

    maybe even bikes to ride.

    However:

    1) a 29" wheel will not fit in 27.5 dropouts. Max rear is about 27.5 X 2.5 in those.

  5. #1905
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    I have both dropouts and was comparing them - I was hoping someone had tried it so that I could avoid taking the bike apart.

    I can't say for sure that the BB would be raised since the SS and CS relationship is different between the two dropouts. The axle is "lower" in the 275 dropout, but the SS location is very different as well. Not sure how that would move things around. I think it's moot since it really does look like there wouldn't be room for a 29er in the 275 dropout setup.

    When I have time, I'll take some pics of the dropouts next to each other.
    IF you could put a 29" tire in the 27.5 dropouts, it would raise the BB, because it would most likely be a larger diameter.

    The more interesting question might be, what happens when you put a 27.5 wheel in 29er dropouts? I did this for the first time for Sea Otter, considered racing it but didn't, just for familiarity reasons.

    The HTA and BB are about .2 degrees steeper/couple mm higher. The CS is 13 mm longer.This is all with a 27.5 x 2.5 Maxxis DHR. This bike was raced by a demo rider rider at Sea Otter and finished 5th in men's 30-34 Cat 2.

    I'll post his review here shortly.

    Still catching up and apologize for delays corresponding. Crazy amount of media to keep up with

  6. #1906
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    >The HTA and BB are about .2 degrees steeper/couple mm higher.

    You mean slacker and lower. I think it would work well although I"m still not a fan of these super slack HA on trail bikes.

  7. #1907
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Hey everyone, I am just returning from another trip and trying to catch up on what I missed.

    first thing, Dirt Fest in PA next week. I'll have an o-fish-all booth an e'rythin

    maybe even bikes to ride.

    However:

    1) a 29" wheel will not fit in 27.5 dropouts. Max rear is about 27.5 X 2.5 in those.
    If you're hitting Dirt Fest any chance you hitting the DC area after?
    Tallboy 3.1
    OG Ripley v2

  8. #1908
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Hey everyone, I am just returning from another trip and trying to catch up on what I missed.

    first thing, Dirt Fest in PA next week. I'll have an o-fish-all booth an e'rythin

    maybe even bikes to ride.

    However:

    1) a 29" wheel will not fit in 27.5 dropouts. Max rear is about 27.5 X 2.5 in those.
    Please bring bikes! I値l be there and I致e been dying to demo one.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #1909
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    Quote Originally Posted by visus View Post
    Please bring bikes! I値l be there and I致e been dying to demo one.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I will have a few bikes. And you are first on the list.

    When would you like to ride?

    What size? which model?

  10. #1910
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    Hey guys - what cranks are ya'll running and has anyone had crank flex and chainstay clipping issues under power... I went for a GXP style crank (Truvative Descendant alloy version) with Hope BB and hope GXP adapter.

    If I crank it uphill my current setup is flexing enough when left pedal is under force to pull the right crank over to clip the chainstay

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180510_170017.jpg

    Going to see if possible to add a another spacer but if not I'd rather go with a setup that has been proven to work under 'proper' use

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180510_170106.jpgNew innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180510_171924.jpg

  11. #1911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Westholm View Post
    Even if you'd fit a skinny enough 29"tyre to clear the bottom of the CS, the tyre would rub on thec SS at full compression.
    But 29" dropouts should coming any day now..
    Brian - Any update on that?

    www.tantrumcycles.com
    I'm still waiting on the 29er dropouts as well. Brian,is there any progress or does the continued silence on the subject mean not anytime so it soon? I understand you're busy but it a quick update would be appreciated.

  12. #1912
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Hey guys - what cranks are ya'll running and has anyone had crank flex and chainstay clipping issues under power... I went for a GXP style crank (Truvative Descendant alloy version) with Hope BB and hope GXP adapter.

    If I crank it uphill my current setup is flexing enough when left pedal is under force to pull the right crank over to clip the chainstay
    I haven't had any issues with mine. But it's a 2x that I used a Oneupcomponents conversion on to make it 1x.

    This was on my receipt:
    Shimano XT M785 10 Speed Double Chainset Black
    Black, 104mm, 38.24t, 175mm, - sku322099

  13. #1913
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    Work with a file the crank in the relevant point, 1mm should do, and good it is.

  14. #1914
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    Lavolpeeluva - hmm yeah I've seen a few people recommend this on other forums I'll keep filing the crank as a last resort as so far it's hitting the chainstay quite heavily under reasonable force... not going to risk what might happen if really giving it some...

    Going to be interesting to see if I am able to fit the extra spacer with the GXP system.

    Flow - what kind of clearance are you getting at the chainstay with the XT crank arms?

  15. #1915
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    I will have a few bikes. And you are first on the list.

    When would you like to ride?

    What size? which model?
    Anything in a large ... just really curious about the missing link suspension. Looks like it値l be a rainy weekend, but I知 sure it値l still be fun. See you there!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #1916
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    SRAM GX as Brian shipped with his full working man build

    my drive side crank is not as close as that. a bit further away
    like your non-drive side


    and I have stood this bike on stiff rock climbs and no rubs
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  17. #1917
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    SRAM GX as Brian shipped with his full working man build

    my drive side crank is not as close as that. a bit further away
    like your non-drive side


    and I have stood this bike on stiff rock climbs and no rubs
    Thanks 127.0.0.1 - yeah ... just emailing back and forth to Brian to try to figure if my frame is flexing more than it should or I just happened to choose a crank with slightly too narrow spacing, unable to accommodate the frame's natural flex under power... frustrating thing about the GXP BB style is lack of adjustability... extra spacers just not an option.

    Kinda surprised I didn't get any chainstay clipping on my first ride - but I was taking it easy :P

  18. #1918
    keo
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Thanks 127.0.0.1 - yeah ... just emailing back and forth to Brian to try to figure if my frame is flexing more than it should or I just happened to choose a crank with slightly too narrow spacing, unable to accommodate the frame's natural flex under power... frustrating thing about the GXP BB style is lack of adjustability... extra spacers just not an option.

    Kinda surprised I didn't get any chainstay clipping on my first ride - but I was taking it easy :P
    I had this issue with the SRAM X01 cranks that came with my build, I switched to GX cranks which have a wider Q factor and that fixed the issue (I also switched to 170 mm crank arms to help with the seat post insertion restriction). Also I had this issue at my weight of ~200lbs but my wife @~160 lbs did not have this issue with the X01 cranks, so there is likely a weight/force component to the issue.

  19. #1919
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    I was getting crank rub under power using Next SL cranks when I had boots on it. I spaced it out as much as I could and without boots it cleared. When I ran XT aluminum cranks I had no problem once I spaced it properly. I'm talking just 1-2mm of spacing nothing radical. That's another reason its good to run a boost rear hub as the chainline starts to get a little more outboard. But yeah if you're looking at cranks you'll want something with more not less Q most likely.

  20. #1920
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    Awesome thanks guys - good to know I'm not alone in this and seems pretty easy to fix with cranks that have a bit extra 'Q' ... going to try the cheaper potential fix suggested by Brian first... spacing the BB cup out on drive side a mm or 2 to give it a little extra resistance against the forces from cranks under power... I have gut feeling it will help but not enough for me to be relaxed when out on the trail that I can give it some without digging a trench through my chainstay :/

    Love the Truvative Descendant cranks though so might treat my hardtail to an upgrade :P

  21. #1921
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    73 mm BB info:

    I've had these pictures for some time, as a few of you had mentioned crank rub before. while I haven't personally dealt with all cases, the ones I have dealt with and the bikes I have built have no rub if the BB is properly spaced.

    A few basics:

    BB shell width is nominally 73 mm (mine seem to be more like 72.5)

    BB/Crank dimensions allowed for a (min 3 mm) chain guide to be placed under the drive side BB, before ISGC tabs. In other words, the drive side cup is designed to be spaced away from the BB shell, the non drive is not.

    BB cups vary from 10-12 mm wide, depending on seal width. If you added 24 mm to a 73 mm BB shell, you have 97 mm of total width.

    The SRAM cranks I have (XO carbon) have about 102 mm of spread between crank arms, at the spindle.

    102 - 97= 5 mm. This math might indicate 5 mm of spacer under the drive side BB cup would fit perfectly.

    My builds all seem to end up in this range, ALTHOUGH keep in mind, 0.5 mm is more than enough to go from a freely spinning crank to completely locked up. This is the most important point. Be patient, use fine increments and you can get it right. Or at least better, before you start buying new cranks.

    The cranks don't bind.

    The cranks don't rub.

    I thru away the wavy washer.

    If anything, give the drive side more gap. Any bike will try to rub the drive side arm, simply because the chain is bending the frame in that direction. The non-drive side will never rub.

    Here's a couple pics. While your crank/bb combo may vary in dimensions, the math still has to add up. For reference, this is a wheels mfg BB.
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-bbcup.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-bbwidth.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-crank-spread.jpg

  22. #1922
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    Thanks Brian! Have BB cup spacers on order - will report back once I have things as spaced as possible without binding

  23. #1923
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Flow - what kind of clearance are you getting at the chainstay with the XT crank arms?
    I can fit my finger between the crank and the chainstay at the closest point.

    I feel like the bike is quite stiff and feels solid under power climbing. On a road trip this week putting in the miles with no issues.

  24. #1924
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flow Chaser View Post
    I can fit my finger between the crank and the chainstay at the closest point.

    I feel like the bike is quite stiff and feels solid under power climbing. On a road trip this week putting in the miles with no issues.
    Thanks Flow

    Yeah I don't remember mine feeling flexy so should be all good once I have this spacer/ crank / bb situ sorted.

  25. #1925
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Hey guys - what cranks are ya'll running and has anyone had crank flex and chainstay clipping issues under power... I went for a GXP style crank (Truvative Descendant alloy version) with Hope BB and hope GXP adapter.
    Boring old XT M8000 single ring cranks and bottom bracket here. No issues with flex or clearance.

  26. #1926
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    Anybody know the max seat post insertion on a size Large Outburst frame?

  27. #1927
    Tantrumcycles #1
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    210mm insertion length on my size Large frame (minus 2-3mm on my clamp)

    Note that some droppers might catch on the cable mount if not centered as on my Bikeyoke, or pivoting as on some posts!

    www.tantrumcycles.com

  28. #1928
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    Thanks! In your photo of the post inserted, is it all the way down, or does it have more room to go?

    One more please: What's the measurement from the top of your seat post clamp to the top of the bottom bracket?

  29. #1929
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    Inserted all the way in that photo ( to check max insertion.. deducted what's left with the total possible insertion length of dropper = my answer ;-) )

    ST length seems to be 465mm..

    www.tantrumcycles.com

  30. #1930
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    Thanks^^^
    For comparison, my MED Outburst measures 410mm from the top of the seat tube to the top of the BB. (where yours is 465).

    max insertion of the seat tube is about 210 on yours, mine is 150mm.

  31. #1931
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    In case useful to anyone - sorted my chainstay clipping issue!

    After trying everything with no luck, I ran it past LBS who on the offchance ran product code through their system and found I had ended up with a non-boost version of the crank...

    I now have a 170mm set of RaceFace Aeffect cranks that are boost compatible once you switch a couple of spacers from one side to the other - run like a dream with no hint of clipping chainstay. Added bonus helps dropper setup fit a little better than with 175 crank.

    Moral of the story - make sure you're running boost cranks with boost frame.


  32. #1932
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    moral of the story is: boost is killing us all

    just to get my Tantrum before snow flew... I had to suck it up and go boost for the first time in my life. originally wanted 12x142

    (and yeah glad it's boost actually...Brian showed me the light )
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  33. #1933
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    Not getting more then a few hours of rideing in so far this summer I decide to join the first Enduro competition this season just in the last minutes. Unfortunately I had forgot that I realized during the last comp I need to step up the rotor sizes before next time. #trailheadnesbyen is not a good place for 160/180mm. At least all riders finising in front of me was running 203mm rotors both front And rear.

    All stages was mostly very bumpy, loose, dusty. A few fast sections but rolling blind terrain and corners. So very hard to get any rest at all from braking.
    Very happy to make it trough. The bike performed very good in all other aspects.


    In total it was 7200feet /2200meter of descent in five stages. The longest being 525m of elevation. 40km and 5:30 hours in total including very hot climbs.

    I have been looking at slotted rotors from TRP*https://www.trpcycling.com/shop/cate...-parts/rotors/


    Any suggestions? I noticed many riders are was using the Ice Tech rotors from Shimano or other heat shedding rotors. But It was over 30 deg Celsius and I did not notice any heat fadeing.
    Squeaky brakes in wet conditions however have been a bigger problem however very limited on my Magura MT Trail brakes.. So was thinking slotted rotors might be a good idea..


  34. #1934
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Westholm View Post
    Squeaky brakes in wet conditions however have been a bigger problem however very limited on my Magura MT Trail brakes.. So was thinking slotted rotors might be a good idea..
    Make sure the rotors you get are 2mm thick, most other brands use slimmer ones than Magura.

  35. #1935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegard View Post
    Make sure the rotors you get are 2mm thick, most other brands use slimmer ones than Magura.
    Is that really an issue? In my head the pistons will adjust equally anyway as pads wear down..

    www.tantrumcycles.com

  36. #1936
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Westholm View Post

    ST length seems to be 465mm..

    www.tantrumcycles.com
    I love the Kona Cadabra in the background. Your wife's??

    Can you tell a family resemblance from some of my design tendencies?

  37. #1937
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    In case useful to anyone - sorted my chainstay clipping issue!

    After trying everything with no luck, I ran it past LBS who on the offchance ran product code through their system and found I had ended up with a non-boost version of the crank...

    I now have a 170mm set of RaceFace Aeffect cranks that are boost compatible once you switch a couple of spacers from one side to the other - run like a dream with no hint of clipping chainstay. Added bonus helps dropper setup fit a little better than with 175 crank.

    Moral of the story - make sure you're running boost cranks with boost frame.

    The extremely frustrating thing about this, especially for a bike designer, is there is supposed to be NO DIFFERENCE in the Q factor (distance between crank arms) from a boost/non boost crank. Only chainline 3 mm more outboard.

    I did have an early customer accidentally have a narrow Q factor set of Race Face Cranks. Same problem you had. Are you sure yours weren't narrow Q (boost or not?)

    For reference, I have an XO and NX (sram) NON BOOST cranks mounted on a couple demo bikes. Chain rings are tight at 30 Tooth, but crank arms are fine. I'll grab some pics.

    Any way, glad you got it sorted and up and running.

  38. #1938
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Westholm View Post
    Is that really an issue? In my head the pistons will adjust equally anyway as pads wear down..

    www.tantrumcycles.com
    Funny. I KNOW about the disc thickness, but have switched to other discs without even thinking about it. I think it would only make a difference when your pads are fully worn out.

    Since you don't have fade, why change? Just more power?

  39. #1939
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    Speaking of dropouts and such.....

    I have been testing the Outburst, 150/140 29er. I may have mentioned that i wasn't really happy with the geo on the Shinning 29er (160 fr/rr). Too high BB and too steep.

    Ont the Outburst, due to the shorter fork, the BB is reasonable at around 353 (still could be a bit lower) and the HTA is even steeper at around 66.2 degrees.

    Which is just too steep for me, even on "level" trails. Partly because of the way the rear stays up in this terrain and doesn't slacken out.

    So I will put a Works Components, Zero lower stack angle headset in to change the HTA to about 65 and lower the BB more. It will also steepen the STA a bit.

    Once I ride this, I'll convert it back to the Shinning to see how it likes the angleset. For reference, the Shinning was 65.5 HTA, compared to 64 for the Meltdown and 63.5 for the Shindown.

    I will say this. This bike is fast.New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-outburst-number-1.jpg

  40. #1940
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Funny. I KNOW about the disc thickness, but have switched to other discs without even thinking about it. I think it would only make a difference when your pads are fully worn out.

    Since you don't have fade, why change? Just more power?
    Correct. No other reason then lack of power on fast, bumpy, long, arm-pumping and blind descents.
    The modulation are superb!

    I went on and ordered an 203mm Magura Storm SL Rotor as a beginning. 203/180 SL Will look best on photos for when the bike are ready for testing (As a 29er since For some reason the magazine are not ready for the unusual mix of 29" front and 27" rear even this setup works amazingly well for Enduro kind of rideing!)

    One step larger SL rotors (the 180mm will be moved to the rear) will be powerfull enough for at least the rest of this year's riding and occasional races.

    The race I did on Sunday was exceptionally hard. Very little pedaling except the first 1/3 of SS1. Most of it more DH then Enduro. Big brake terrain..

    If I find out I want even a bit more power I will probably get an HC rotor and move the SL to the rear..

    Here's a good comparison of all 3 types of Magura rotors

    http://themtblab.com/2017/01/review-...or-review.html

    www.tantrumcycles.com

  41. #1941
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Speaking of dropouts and such.....

    I have been testing the Outburst, 150/140 29er. I may have mentioned that i wasn't really happy with the geo on the Shinning 29er (160 fr/rr). Too high BB and too steep.

    Ont the Outburst, due to the shorter fork, the BB is reasonable at around 353 (still could be a bit lower) and the HTA is even steeper at around 66.2 degrees.

    Which is just too steep for me, even on "level" trails. Partly because of the way the rear stays up in this terrain and doesn't slacken out.

    So I will put a Works Components, Zero lower stack angle headset in to change the HTA to about 65 and lower the BB more. It will also steepen the STA a bit.

    Once I ride this, I'll convert it back to the Shinning to see how it likes the angleset. For reference, the Shinning was 65.5 HTA, compared to 64 for the Meltdown and 63.5 for the Shindown.

    I will say this. This bike is fast.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	outburst number 1.jpg 
Views:	78 
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ID:	1201267
    In other words, this is basically the bike I was thinking might make a really good all-rounder. Where's your next demo?

  42. #1942
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    In other words, this is basically the bike I was thinking might make a really good all-rounder. Where's your next demo?
    I was wondering, with all that new trail you've been building...........

  43. #1943
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    I was wondering, with all that new trail you've been building...........
    I'm on private property right now. But I'm about 45 minutes from Dupont/Pisgah. I'm sure you could get a crowd up down there

  44. #1944
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    this friggin bike defies belief. it stands up and rear suspension is topped when absolutely pounding max watts on a climb, yet one root or rock or ripple, it eats it and it just disappears, and goes right back to max efficiency again. a series of roots and rocks, eat them all...

    and you don't feel a damn thing odd... except the mental confusion thinking the terrain you previously thought was tricky, is just imagination.

    it's just unbelievable, and I am making it up chunk and root that previously made me dab
    ...that missing link the way it allows power to be put down as all this is going on is nuts

    bike rides like it is on rails, everywhere. it's almost frightening how much faster you can eat up terrain

    the frame and the links are beef. nothing is flexin, floppin, flappin...rock solid

    *150 mile review
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  45. #1945
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    I love the Kona Cadabra in the background. Your wife's??

    Can you tell a family resemblance from some of my design tendencies?
    Also reminds me of something Frank the Welder was working on for Sinister a while before the Cadabra showed up...can't remember the name of the frame though...???

    edit...it was the "Passion", circa 2007

    Last edited by slapheadmofo; 06-01-2018 at 10:45 AM.
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  46. #1946
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    Tantrum Outburst review
    140mm travel 29er


    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-tant-1.jpg

    Overview:
    I think evaluations of this bike should be divided broadly into two sections; the suspension design, and the bike in general. Since the suspension design is unique, novel and patented, it deserves to be evaluated separately from opinions on the bike in general.

    Tantrum Cycles claims a new and unique suspension design, dubbed the Missing Link, that is supposed to do everything and more without having to touch a lever. Not only ride plush when going down and firm when climbing but more than that. It claims to be able to instantly absorb bumps even when under climbing loads. While pedalling, the shock extends instead of compressing effectively allowing the rider to set the bike up with more sag, resulting in a subtle automatic geometry switch from slack when descending, to upright when pedalling hard or climbing.

    I have found all of this to be true. But more than that is what it means to your ride: The suspension is always where you want it and you don稚 have to make adjustments. Any other bike you ride has some sort of compromise. Really good on the ups, or the downs, or nice float but no support. Somehow, the Tantrum can be floaty on the downs yet still offer support in the pumps and the turns. Somehow it truly does it all!

    I bought my Tantrum Outburst on Kickstarter! I believe in these modern times one should not have to reach down and flick a lever to adjust the suspension, and I have been looking for a bike that delivered on this promise for some time. When I read the marketing on the Tantrum and dug deeper into its creator痴 credentials, I thought it was worth taking the risk and became a Kickstarter backer - my first experience with Kickstarter or buying a bike that I hadn稚 first thrown a leg over. As a rider I am very curious about these new suspension designs and I wish there were more comprehensive reviews about them. So I am attempting to offer an unbiased and comprehensive review here.

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-tant-setup.jpg


    Setup and components:

    All Tantrum frames are aluminum. The first thing that caught my attention unboxing it was how solidly the bike was built. Everything looks oversized. While this brings confidence it also brings added weight. With lightweight carbon wheels and a 1x Shimano XT drivetrain and brakes, my medium weighs just under 31 lbs. I知 running tubeless Maxxis Minions (DHF on the front and a SS on the back) and was able to fit a 125mm KS LEV dropper (the seat post insertion is somewhat limited or I would have gone longer). Bars are 780mm wide carbon 35mm RaceFace SixC. I began with a 31mm Renthal stem and moved to 50mm and now to 60mm. Suspension is handled by the DVO Diamond up front and the DVO Topaz in the rear, each with 140mm of travel.

    Tantrums can be configured a lot of different ways with different travel and wheel sizes, so it can be challenging to select what you think will work for you, given the bike rides differently than any bike you have ridden before - not in a weird way, but in a way that lets you get away with more. The best shock available was a 140mm Topaz. I didn稚 want to go longer than 140mm travel up front and so I ended up with the balanced 140/140. However, I believe Tantrum prefers and suggests overforking their bikes with longer travel up front than in the rear.

    I tried to set the bike up 2x, but it was impossible. For most people, the ship has sailed and 1x is preferred so this is a non issue. However, I still like the benefits of 2x for a bike that is intended to ride fast over undulating terrain but realize that pretty much any bike I am going to buy today will come as 1x only.

    The sag setup is unique on Tantrums. Because the suspension design handles the efficiency mechanically, you don稚 need a firm shock to keep the bike efficient and can therefore run more sag and a softer shock, provided you have enough support to avoid bottoming out on big hits. The bike tends to ride better this way, feeling low and slack when not pedalling and upright and spritely when you are pedalling. At first I set it up according to Brian痴 instructions. It rode great but I kept looking at all that sag and thought there is no way that痴 how I should set this up! So I added air and brought the bike in line with what I thought was a more reasonable sag. The bike felt firmer, but I didn稚 get as much of the bump sucking plushness I had come to love and the downhill didn稚 feel as slack. In the end I went back to the suggested settings with what seems like a crazy amount of sag and it痴 great! Currently, that is 35% and I have yet to feel a bottom out.

    I should note also that I always ride with the shock in the open mode.

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-tant-link.jpg

    The reviewer:
    I live in British Columbia. I like to ride hard and like a challenging trail with technical work but prefer flow trails to the ultra gnarly. I like to push the speed and get up and pedal out of the saddle. I believe in these modern times one should not have to reach down and flick a lever to adjust the suspension. That is why I have been riding a 泥own-Countried Specialized Epic with a Brain for the past several years. I modified it with a longer fork, bigger tires, dropper post and wide bars. I definitely push this bike hard and I have been looking for a bike that does what Tantrum promises for a long time. I知 510 with a 30 inseam and weigh 185lbs.

    Suspension Design:

    The Missing Link has a bold claim: Basically to allow a firm pedalling bike with plush descending all without having to adjust a lever. What痴 more, it can even handle impacts while in the firm mode. Before I get into too much detail, let me go over some of the other bikes I have tested in recent years in my search for a bike that allows riding without flipping levers - that simultaneously offers efficient pedalling while offering plush bump absorption.

    Specialized Brain:
    Firm pedaller, but doesn稚 absorb big bumps as well and doesn稚 feel as fully 双pen'. No longer available on bikes with travel greater than 100mm.

    Lapierre e:i Auto: Fully open on down but I found substantial brake jacking of suspension and too firm approaching lock out on climbing/pedalling.

    Niner痴 CVA, Pivot痴 DW Link, Santa Cruz痴 VPP systems:
    Too mild an effect in each of these still requiring a platform to climb efficiently, or give up plushness on the descent.

    Only Tantrum's Missing Link gives solid pedalling, all size bump absorption - even when pedalling - and fully open plush floaty descending - all without touching a lever!! It is pretty shocking (pun intended), but it is in fact true. When pedalling evenly such as seated on a moderate climb, the suspension just stays relatively firm. When you stand to hammer up a steep climb the suspension may bob between strokes - but it is actually rising above sag instead of sinking deeper into it. As a result, the rider senses firm, efficient forward motion instead of energy sucking squish. If you are able to reduce the gap between strokes by adding a load to the system, for example with a larger gear or going up a slope, the bob-up is eliminated and the bike stays in the upright position. But it also instantly absorbs obstacles. I find myself riding over rocks and roots on the trail on purpose just to see the suspension suck it up. I won稚 try to explain how it works, there is a lot of information on the Tantrum Cycles website, but as a rider I feel it - and it works.

    It痴 worth noting the DVO fork and shock are just awesome! They are noted for their tune-ability, and I usually play around a lot with my suspension, particularly at set up, but I was able to quickly set them up according to factory recommendations and enjoy! Ultra plush and slippery with great mid-stroke support and great ramp up. They feel super buttery soaking up the small bumps and yet when you push hard you have all the support you need.

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-tant-seat.jpg

    The rest of the bike (fit, feel):
    I am usually between sizes with bikes and I was really on the fence for a while on whether to get a medium or long (Tantrums Large). I opted for medium and I have been wondering if it is too small. But after looking at numbers from other Tantrum owners, the long probably would have had a seat tube that is too high for me. I知 a bit of a freak with short legs and a long torso, so bikes that have a long reach usually work best. Fit is a personal thing and the best way to know if a bike fits is to throw a leg over it - impossible for me in this case. When I first built it up I felt like my hands were too low and too close. I ended up using all the stack I had (30mm) and moving from a 31mm stem to 50mm and it felt quite a bit better. Now I have moved to a 60mm stem and its amazing what that extra 10mm will do as it is starting to feel pretty 喪ight. I致e had other riders on the bike who are taller than me and think the Medium was the right choice - so there you go. There is only 150mm of insertion available in the seat tube and this limits me to a 125mm dropper. Not usually the end of the world, but I find the seat a bit high and upright on this bike and so it seems to get in the way a little more than I知 used to, so more drop would help. I have read some comments where other reviewers have noted this phenomena as well on the newer geo bikes with steeper seat tubes.

    The bottom bracket is high when measured without a rider. This would suggest it doesn稚 handle as well in the corners going down. But what I have found is it sits into its sag enough that it handles corners well and the side benefit is you have quite a bit of pedal clearance when tackling climbs littered with obstacles.

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-tant-climb.jpg

    Climbing:
    A lot has been said about how well this bike climbs. Other buyers have noted that there is just something easy about climbing on it. I can confirm that as well. My regular bike is a Specialized Epic with 100mm of rear wheel travel and the Brain suspension. It is rigid and scoots up climbs quite nicely. But back to back on the same climbs, the Tantrum just has a more relaxed feeling, like it takes less effort. I never look at a climb with dread on the Tantrum, even late in the day after many miles in the saddle. On a challenging rock roll with tight pedal clearance I would stand and work my way over with the Epic, but I can sit and comfortably make it with the Tantrum. Also, steep climbs just feel easier. If you want to stand and push hard you feel like all of your energy is going into moving the bike up the climb. Switchbacks up are also quite easy on this bike. You壇 think if the pedalling makes the bike firm then there would also be pedal feedback and obstacles in the trail would be firm. But there is no discernible feedback and it is seamless when the shock transitions to absorb an obstacle under load.

    Descending:

    When going down, the bike instantly feels plush. But if you hit a G-out or a turn-to-climb, the suspension gives you adequate support and you can keep forward momentum going. I should note that I finished last riding season early due to a broken neck and I知 not quite back to my normal confidence in rough stuff yet - on any bike. I am trying to force myself to ride at a maximum of 70-80%. What I have found in riding other bikes back to back is that what I feel as 80% on the Tantrum is faster and harder than 80% on other bikes. So it does give confidence. Two 祖hanges I made also helped the bike feel better on the downs. One was getting a longer stem that fit my preference for a long reach and the other was running more sag than you think you should which really let the bike sink into its travel and get lower. Downhill switchbacks are also handled nicely on the Tantrum.

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-tant-down.jpg

    Undulating trail: (neither climbing or descending)
    Rolling terrain is one area the Tantrum really stands out above other bikes. Usually there is some compromise on these trails. The climbing and descending are easy - just select the appropriate place on your shock痴 compression lever. On the undulating trails we usually either set our bikes up a little soft and ride them with the platform on, or set them up firm and ride with the shock open. With the Tantrum you can ride with it open and yet get full firmness every time you push on the pedals - no need for levers. Really. No need.

    General thoughts:
    The Tantrum is a great all around bike, handling all aspects well - climbing, descending and rolling terrain. This is the bike you grab when you are going on a road trip and you don稚 know what to expect. It痴 also the bike you grab when you know the terrain will be rough and you want soft suspension to soak it up. You壇 grab this bike if you knew you壇 hit a lot of climbs - long, steep, or challenging. So when would you not grab this bike? At least in my size and configuration, I wouldn稚 enter an xc race where there was a lot of standing and sprinting and rocking the bike back and forth mainly due to the seat getting in the way.

    Comparison to other bikes:
    So how does the Tantrum Outburst compare to other bikes? But what to compare it to? A 140mm bike? Or a 100mm bike? The challenge here is it can honestly compete with each of these. So here we go: (I am mainly comparing to Specialized bikes because I have access to them and they are commonly available and so provide a good baseline)

    Outburst vs the 100/120 Specialized Epic 29er:
    The first time I test rode a Specialized Epic 29er, I was impressed by how the bike goaded you on. You just wanted to keep pushing to go faster because the bike turned all your effort into forward motion. The Tantrum doesn稚 scoot off quite as well, but it痴 a different bike, intended for a different purpose with 140mm of travel vs 100mm, slacker geo and about a 4lb weight penalty. So you might wonder how I can compare the two. Well, I compare them because I want it all! I want a bike that pedals efficiently like the Epic but also shreds the chunder and the downhill (don稚 worry, I compare it to the more closely matched Stumpjumper with 135/150 travel below). Before the Tantrum, my Down-Countried Epic was as close as I could get to a suspension I don稚 have to play with and would give me an ultra efficient bike that could have fun on the downs too. Specialized used to offer the Brain in longer travel bikes, but now it is limited to the 100mm Epic. So that痴 what I have. Comparing the two, the Tantrum is very close actually in the efficiency department. The only time I feel the Epic beat it is in the standing sprint where you are throwing the bike from side to side. Somehow the seat seems to be in the way more on the Tantrum and that may be partly the steeper seat tube angle, or partly that steep under-power geo. On the climbs, I can relax a little more on the Tantrum. And when the trail is chattery or rough there is just no comparison. On the fast flowy trails I feel like a Ninja on the Epic and it is a fun bike to push for sure, but you have to be on your game and in attack mode. The Outburst has more of a floaty feeling but still plays and gives support when you need it in the turns and when pumping and allows you to relax when you want, or push when you want.

    Outburst vs. the 110/110 Specialized Camber 29er:

    The Camber doesn稚 have a Brain like the Epic. It has slacker geo and bigger components (tires, brakes). It is supposed to fit that middle position for someone who wants an efficient bike and doesn稚 need the longer travel but still wants the slacker geo to tackle the rowdy steep lines. To try and keep the playing field even, I left the Camber痴 shock open. On the way up it had a bit of bob, but the bob was deeper into the suspension and felt more energy sucking where the bob on the Tantrum is a bob 爽p in travel and feels more efficient. Going down, the Camber felt quite a bit firmer and less plush. Perhaps one could say that is to be expected for a 110mm bike.

    Outburst vs. the 135/150 Specialized 6fattie (27.5 plus tires):
    The configuration of my Tantrum felt most similar to the Stumpjumper in terms of reach and fit. The biggest difference being the higher bottom bracket on the Tantrum.
    No surprise, the Stumpy is super good on the downs, plush and confidence inspiring. Part of this is due to the 3.0 tires. I instantly felt comfortable but I knew I would as the Specialized geometry just fits my body type well. Going up in open it bounces around a lot and I quickly opted for the platform lever. If you put the power down in a big gear you can keep it pretty even but it feels like it takes too much energy and you don稚 do that. Riding the Tantrum immediately afterward on the same trail feels so much more like the bike is taking energy and transferring it into forward motion. You can stand or sit on the Tantrum and it doesn稚 matter. The Stumpy wants you to sit and grind. Over a challenging rock climb the Tantrum makes you feel like you can just easily do it, where on the same rock the Stumpy sucks it up better than the Epic, but you still feel like you have to get ready and attack. I should note this particular Stumpjumper was a size Large carbon, weighed about 1 pound more, had about 20mm more reach. The bottom bracket is quite a bit lower on the Stumpy, and makes it track well as you head downhill but pedal strikes are common. By contrast, the Tantrum is able to avoid the pedal strikes with a high bottom bracket when climbing but slacken into its suspension on the downs and still provide that low bottom bracket carving feeling - all without the rider having to make an adjustment or touch a lever. I really liked my ride on the Stumpjumper 6fattie and I think a lot of riders would like it, especially those looking for some more confidence. But it remains a bike that forces the rider to compromise. I found riding with the climb switch on all the time was the best all round ride. It gave enough support on the climb to feel efficient and was the only way to get support in the hard turns and pumps on the way down. Despite wanting to ride with it in open on the way down and allow the bike to monster truck over everything I found it didn稚 offer the support to push and was less fun. So you end up on a bike where you feel you are making a compromise.

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-tant-conclusion.jpg

    Issues:
    I really only have one serious issue with this bike. The seat post is high and the insertion is limited and this combines for a limited ability to fit a decent dropper post. On the medium, the longest dropper I can fit is a 125mm.
    There are a few less serious issues. I壇 prefer it were a little lighter. But for this class of bike I think it is competitive so I can稚 really complain, and after quite a bit of hard riding (I don稚 know exactly how much - I知 swapping bikes too much) all the links and connections are still very tight. Then there is the aesthetic. In the pictures you see on your computer the steep seat stays look a little off, but in person, the bike looks just fine.

    Conclusion:
    I壇 like to say that other bikes will be as good at going down or up or across as long as their suspension lever is in the appropriate setting. But that isn稚 even true. Going up, you just can稚 simultaneously get the firm and efficient feel while also absorbing obstacles with any other bike. Similarly going 疎cross where other bikes require a 奏rail mode or some sort of platform this bike gets all the squish and all the firmness simultaneously. Even going down, there is simultaneously more floaty plushness and firmness to play. There is no doubt that the suspension design behaves as advertised and in my opinion is a game changer. My only gripe with my Kickstarter bought Medium Tantrum Outburst 29er is that I can稚 fit a dropper any larger than 125mm. But apparently, future runs on these bikes will address this issue. So they are awesome and you should get one! Unfortunately, word is they are sold out for a while. But maybe we can talk Brian at Tantrum into taking some more deposits and getting another production run going!

  47. #1947
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    Headed to Brown county tomorrow, June 3. Will attend the DINO race and have some demo bikes to ride some world class singletrack.

    Look for the home of the Brave. Resurrected after 13 years dormant. This thing used to take me to the NORBA National DH circuit, sponsoring myself racing and selling my ideas.

    Not much changed. A little younger now.New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-demo-motorhome.jpg

  48. #1948
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Speaking of dropouts and such.....

    I have been testing the Outburst, 150/140 29er. I may have mentioned that i wasn't really happy with the geo on the Shinning 29er (160 fr/rr). Too high BB and too steep.

    Ont the Outburst, due to the shorter fork, the BB is reasonable at around 353 (still could be a bit lower) and the HTA is even steeper at around 66.2 degrees.

    Which is just too steep for me, even on "level" trails. Partly because of the way the rear stays up in this terrain and doesn't slacken out.

    So I will put a Works Components, Zero lower stack angle headset in to change the HTA to about 65 and lower the BB more. It will also steepen the STA a bit.

    Once I ride this, I'll convert it back to the Shinning to see how it likes the angleset. For reference, the Shinning was 65.5 HTA, compared to 64 for the Meltdown and 63.5 for the Shindown.

    I will say this. This bike is fast.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	outburst number 1.jpg 
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    Hi Brian,

    My Tantrum is currently set up 140mm 29" front/160mm 27.5 rear. I'm curious what you'd recommend for converting it to a full 29er Outburst? What I'd like is 140mm front and rear and the same or taller bottom bracket height.

    Would I need to get a different length shock and new dropouts for 140mm rear?

    Actually, I love how the bike handles right now and if I could just swap in a 29" rear wheel and keep the same geometry I'd be happy. Is there any reason not run a 140mm fork with a 160 mm rear with 29" wheels? It would take custom dropouts but other than that I don't see a downside with the missing link design.

  49. #1949
    Tantrumcycles #1
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    I love the Kona Cadabra in the background. Your wife's??

    Can you tell a family resemblance from some of my design tendencies?
    Correctomundo! And she still likes here bike allot, even she also are dreaming about having here own Tantrum..

    Design tendencies.. As in cross section shapes of DT and TT tubing? And the nicely milled out gussets and links with sweeping (sensual) lines?

    www.tantrumcycles.com

  50. #1950
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    ... and if we just ...

    I just solved my issue with the dropper cable snagging.
    Replaced both housing and cable amazingly without removing the BB as did when swapping to the Bikeyoke Revive. I just taper together the new and old housing with gorilla tape. Smearede the new middle ~1/3 housing with grease and fed trough. The joint snagged just at the shock mount, so I had to remove it and let the air out of the shock (wich turned out to be good since it made me check the bladder pressure wich had gone down 80psi below minimum!)

    I guess it snagged only due to the closed cell foam I have under the mount to keep mud and debris from filling up around the BB.
    In have no idea why the original cable was snagging and in the end even got blocked completely on and off. I think it's a good advice to grease the housing to avoid any kinks in the cable!

    With everything working fine again I went out and got me som new Strava PR. This bike keeps on amazing me. It just climbes and descends better then anything ive tried. Its so fun to visit trails im used to ride, and this season have just started! The bike is simply not the limit. COM,s is just a question of leting of the brakes and try not to think about consequenses if.....

    I swaped from the DHR / DHF combo to an 2,5W Aggressor tyre up fron and a Slaughter 2,3 (semsilick) in the rear. Now looking for something even wider to aid highspeed cornering and climbing grip. Would like to try the new Rekon 2,6 up front (not available here until 2019) and a Slaughter 2,6 in the rear. But not sure if it will do to much contact with the ST at full travel with the 27" wheel and dropouts?

    Also open for suggestions for other alternatives then Maxxis in 2,5-2,6 segment. I usually dont have any durability issues on the front. But have riped EXO sidewalls a few times in the rear.. For full Enduro and DH i use a Aggressor DD in the rear..
    Last edited by Gunnar Westholm; 06-10-2018 at 12:44 AM.

  51. #1951
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Also reminds me of something Frank the Welder was working on for Sinister a while before the Cadabra showed up...can't remember the name of the frame though...???

    edit...it was the "Passion", circa 2007

    you do realize both FTW and I cringe at this comparison? Why? No artist likes that. And they functioned completely differently.

    That's ok, the U.S. Patent office did the same thing and offered his patent up as a possible prior art. Once we delved into the claims, it was obvious it wasn't.

  52. #1952
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flow Chaser View Post
    Tantrum Outburst review
    140mm travel 29er


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Tant 1.jpg 
Views:	74 
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ID:	1201678

    Overview:
    I think evaluations of this bike should be divided broadly into two sections; the suspension design, and the bike in general. Since the suspension design is unique, novel and patented, it deserves to be evaluated separately from opinions on the bike in general.

    Tantrum Cycles claims a new and unique suspension design, dubbed the Missing Link, that is supposed to do everything and more without having to touch a lever. Not only ride plush when going down and firm when climbing but more than that. It claims to be able to instantly absorb bumps even when under climbing loads. While pedalling, the shock extends instead of compressing effectively allowing the rider to set the bike up with more sag, resulting in a subtle automatic geometry switch from slack when descending, to upright when pedalling hard or climbing.

    I have found all of this to be true. But more than that is what it means to your ride: The suspension is always where you want it and you don稚 have to make adjustments. Any other bike you ride has some sort of compromise. Really good on the ups, or the downs, or nice float but no support. Somehow, the Tantrum can be floaty on the downs yet still offer support in the pumps and the turns. Somehow it truly does it all!

    I bought my Tantrum Outburst on Kickstarter! I believe in these modern times one should not have to reach down and flick a lever to adjust the suspension, and I have been looking for a bike that delivered on this promise for some time. When I read the marketing on the Tantrum and dug deeper into its creator痴 credentials, I thought it was worth taking the risk and became a Kickstarter backer - my first experience with Kickstarter or buying a bike that I hadn稚 first thrown a leg over. As a rider I am very curious about these new suspension designs and I wish there were more comprehensive reviews about them. So I am attempting to offer an unbiased and comprehensive review here.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Tant setup.jpg 
Views:	61 
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    Setup and components:

    All Tantrum frames are aluminum. The first thing that caught my attention unboxing it was how solidly the bike was built. Everything looks oversized. While this brings confidence it also brings added weight. With lightweight carbon wheels and a 1x Shimano XT drivetrain and brakes, my medium weighs just under 31 lbs. I知 running tubeless Maxxis Minions (DHF on the front and a SS on the back) and was able to fit a 125mm KS LEV dropper (the seat post insertion is somewhat limited or I would have gone longer). Bars are 780mm wide carbon 35mm RaceFace SixC. I began with a 31mm Renthal stem and moved to 50mm and now to 60mm. Suspension is handled by the DVO Diamond up front and the DVO Topaz in the rear, each with 140mm of travel.

    Tantrums can be configured a lot of different ways with different travel and wheel sizes, so it can be challenging to select what you think will work for you, given the bike rides differently than any bike you have ridden before - not in a weird way, but in a way that lets you get away with more. The best shock available was a 140mm Topaz. I didn稚 want to go longer than 140mm travel up front and so I ended up with the balanced 140/140. However, I believe Tantrum prefers and suggests overforking their bikes with longer travel up front than in the rear.

    I tried to set the bike up 2x, but it was impossible. For most people, the ship has sailed and 1x is preferred so this is a non issue. However, I still like the benefits of 2x for a bike that is intended to ride fast over undulating terrain but realize that pretty much any bike I am going to buy today will come as 1x only.

    The sag setup is unique on Tantrums. Because the suspension design handles the efficiency mechanically, you don稚 need a firm shock to keep the bike efficient and can therefore run more sag and a softer shock, provided you have enough support to avoid bottoming out on big hits. The bike tends to ride better this way, feeling low and slack when not pedalling and upright and spritely when you are pedalling. At first I set it up according to Brian痴 instructions. It rode great but I kept looking at all that sag and thought there is no way that痴 how I should set this up! So I added air and brought the bike in line with what I thought was a more reasonable sag. The bike felt firmer, but I didn稚 get as much of the bump sucking plushness I had come to love and the downhill didn稚 feel as slack. In the end I went back to the suggested settings with what seems like a crazy amount of sag and it痴 great! Currently, that is 35% and I have yet to feel a bottom out.

    I should note also that I always ride with the shock in the open mode.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The reviewer:
    I live in British Columbia. I like to ride hard and like a challenging trail with technical work but prefer flow trails to the ultra gnarly. I like to push the speed and get up and pedal out of the saddle. I believe in these modern times one should not have to reach down and flick a lever to adjust the suspension. That is why I have been riding a 泥own-Countried Specialized Epic with a Brain for the past several years. I modified it with a longer fork, bigger tires, dropper post and wide bars. I definitely push this bike hard and I have been looking for a bike that does what Tantrum promises for a long time. I知 510 with a 30 inseam and weigh 185lbs.

    Suspension Design:

    The Missing Link has a bold claim: Basically to allow a firm pedalling bike with plush descending all without having to adjust a lever. What痴 more, it can even handle impacts while in the firm mode. Before I get into too much detail, let me go over some of the other bikes I have tested in recent years in my search for a bike that allows riding without flipping levers - that simultaneously offers efficient pedalling while offering plush bump absorption.

    Specialized Brain:
    Firm pedaller, but doesn稚 absorb big bumps as well and doesn稚 feel as fully 双pen'. No longer available on bikes with travel greater than 100mm.

    Lapierre e:i Auto: Fully open on down but I found substantial brake jacking of suspension and too firm approaching lock out on climbing/pedalling.

    Niner痴 CVA, Pivot痴 DW Link, Santa Cruz痴 VPP systems:
    Too mild an effect in each of these still requiring a platform to climb efficiently, or give up plushness on the descent.

    Only Tantrum's Missing Link gives solid pedalling, all size bump absorption - even when pedalling - and fully open plush floaty descending - all without touching a lever!! It is pretty shocking (pun intended), but it is in fact true. When pedalling evenly such as seated on a moderate climb, the suspension just stays relatively firm. When you stand to hammer up a steep climb the suspension may bob between strokes - but it is actually rising above sag instead of sinking deeper into it. As a result, the rider senses firm, efficient forward motion instead of energy sucking squish. If you are able to reduce the gap between strokes by adding a load to the system, for example with a larger gear or going up a slope, the bob-up is eliminated and the bike stays in the upright position. But it also instantly absorbs obstacles. I find myself riding over rocks and roots on the trail on purpose just to see the suspension suck it up. I won稚 try to explain how it works, there is a lot of information on the Tantrum Cycles website, but as a rider I feel it - and it works.

    It痴 worth noting the DVO fork and shock are just awesome! They are noted for their tune-ability, and I usually play around a lot with my suspension, particularly at set up, but I was able to quickly set them up according to factory recommendations and enjoy! Ultra plush and slippery with great mid-stroke support and great ramp up. They feel super buttery soaking up the small bumps and yet when you push hard you have all the support you need.

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    The rest of the bike (fit, feel):
    I am usually between sizes with bikes and I was really on the fence for a while on whether to get a medium or long (Tantrums Large). I opted for medium and I have been wondering if it is too small. But after looking at numbers from other Tantrum owners, the long probably would have had a seat tube that is too high for me. I知 a bit of a freak with short legs and a long torso, so bikes that have a long reach usually work best. Fit is a personal thing and the best way to know if a bike fits is to throw a leg over it - impossible for me in this case. When I first built it up I felt like my hands were too low and too close. I ended up using all the stack I had (30mm) and moving from a 31mm stem to 50mm and it felt quite a bit better. Now I have moved to a 60mm stem and its amazing what that extra 10mm will do as it is starting to feel pretty 喪ight. I致e had other riders on the bike who are taller than me and think the Medium was the right choice - so there you go. There is only 150mm of insertion available in the seat tube and this limits me to a 125mm dropper. Not usually the end of the world, but I find the seat a bit high and upright on this bike and so it seems to get in the way a little more than I知 used to, so more drop would help. I have read some comments where other reviewers have noted this phenomena as well on the newer geo bikes with steeper seat tubes.

    The bottom bracket is high when measured without a rider. This would suggest it doesn稚 handle as well in the corners going down. But what I have found is it sits into its sag enough that it handles corners well and the side benefit is you have quite a bit of pedal clearance when tackling climbs littered with obstacles.

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    Climbing:
    A lot has been said about how well this bike climbs. Other buyers have noted that there is just something easy about climbing on it. I can confirm that as well. My regular bike is a Specialized Epic with 100mm of rear wheel travel and the Brain suspension. It is rigid and scoots up climbs quite nicely. But back to back on the same climbs, the Tantrum just has a more relaxed feeling, like it takes less effort. I never look at a climb with dread on the Tantrum, even late in the day after many miles in the saddle. On a challenging rock roll with tight pedal clearance I would stand and work my way over with the Epic, but I can sit and comfortably make it with the Tantrum. Also, steep climbs just feel easier. If you want to stand and push hard you feel like all of your energy is going into moving the bike up the climb. Switchbacks up are also quite easy on this bike. You壇 think if the pedalling makes the bike firm then there would also be pedal feedback and obstacles in the trail would be firm. But there is no discernible feedback and it is seamless when the shock transitions to absorb an obstacle under load.

    Descending:

    When going down, the bike instantly feels plush. But if you hit a G-out or a turn-to-climb, the suspension gives you adequate support and you can keep forward momentum going. I should note that I finished last riding season early due to a broken neck and I知 not quite back to my normal confidence in rough stuff yet - on any bike. I am trying to force myself to ride at a maximum of 70-80%. What I have found in riding other bikes back to back is that what I feel as 80% on the Tantrum is faster and harder than 80% on other bikes. So it does give confidence. Two 祖hanges I made also helped the bike feel better on the downs. One was getting a longer stem that fit my preference for a long reach and the other was running more sag than you think you should which really let the bike sink into its travel and get lower. Downhill switchbacks are also handled nicely on the Tantrum.

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    Undulating trail: (neither climbing or descending)
    Rolling terrain is one area the Tantrum really stands out above other bikes. Usually there is some compromise on these trails. The climbing and descending are easy - just select the appropriate place on your shock痴 compression lever. On the undulating trails we usually either set our bikes up a little soft and ride them with the platform on, or set them up firm and ride with the shock open. With the Tantrum you can ride with it open and yet get full firmness every time you push on the pedals - no need for levers. Really. No need.

    General thoughts:
    The Tantrum is a great all around bike, handling all aspects well - climbing, descending and rolling terrain. This is the bike you grab when you are going on a road trip and you don稚 know what to expect. It痴 also the bike you grab when you know the terrain will be rough and you want soft suspension to soak it up. You壇 grab this bike if you knew you壇 hit a lot of climbs - long, steep, or challenging. So when would you not grab this bike? At least in my size and configuration, I wouldn稚 enter an xc race where there was a lot of standing and sprinting and rocking the bike back and forth mainly due to the seat getting in the way.

    Comparison to other bikes:
    So how does the Tantrum Outburst compare to other bikes? But what to compare it to? A 140mm bike? Or a 100mm bike? The challenge here is it can honestly compete with each of these. So here we go: (I am mainly comparing to Specialized bikes because I have access to them and they are commonly available and so provide a good baseline)

    Outburst vs the 100/120 Specialized Epic 29er:
    The first time I test rode a Specialized Epic 29er, I was impressed by how the bike goaded you on. You just wanted to keep pushing to go faster because the bike turned all your effort into forward motion. The Tantrum doesn稚 scoot off quite as well, but it痴 a different bike, intended for a different purpose with 140mm of travel vs 100mm, slacker geo and about a 4lb weight penalty. So you might wonder how I can compare the two. Well, I compare them because I want it all! I want a bike that pedals efficiently like the Epic but also shreds the chunder and the downhill (don稚 worry, I compare it to the more closely matched Stumpjumper with 135/150 travel below). Before the Tantrum, my Down-Countried Epic was as close as I could get to a suspension I don稚 have to play with and would give me an ultra efficient bike that could have fun on the downs too. Specialized used to offer the Brain in longer travel bikes, but now it is limited to the 100mm Epic. So that痴 what I have. Comparing the two, the Tantrum is very close actually in the efficiency department. The only time I feel the Epic beat it is in the standing sprint where you are throwing the bike from side to side. Somehow the seat seems to be in the way more on the Tantrum and that may be partly the steeper seat tube angle, or partly that steep under-power geo. On the climbs, I can relax a little more on the Tantrum. And when the trail is chattery or rough there is just no comparison. On the fast flowy trails I feel like a Ninja on the Epic and it is a fun bike to push for sure, but you have to be on your game and in attack mode. The Outburst has more of a floaty feeling but still plays and gives support when you need it in the turns and when pumping and allows you to relax when you want, or push when you want.

    Outburst vs. the 110/110 Specialized Camber 29er:

    The Camber doesn稚 have a Brain like the Epic. It has slacker geo and bigger components (tires, brakes). It is supposed to fit that middle position for someone who wants an efficient bike and doesn稚 need the longer travel but still wants the slacker geo to tackle the rowdy steep lines. To try and keep the playing field even, I left the Camber痴 shock open. On the way up it had a bit of bob, but the bob was deeper into the suspension and felt more energy sucking where the bob on the Tantrum is a bob 爽p in travel and feels more efficient. Going down, the Camber felt quite a bit firmer and less plush. Perhaps one could say that is to be expected for a 110mm bike.

    Outburst vs. the 135/150 Specialized 6fattie (27.5 plus tires):
    The configuration of my Tantrum felt most similar to the Stumpjumper in terms of reach and fit. The biggest difference being the higher bottom bracket on the Tantrum.
    No surprise, the Stumpy is super good on the downs, plush and confidence inspiring. Part of this is due to the 3.0 tires. I instantly felt comfortable but I knew I would as the Specialized geometry just fits my body type well. Going up in open it bounces around a lot and I quickly opted for the platform lever. If you put the power down in a big gear you can keep it pretty even but it feels like it takes too much energy and you don稚 do that. Riding the Tantrum immediately afterward on the same trail feels so much more like the bike is taking energy and transferring it into forward motion. You can stand or sit on the Tantrum and it doesn稚 matter. The Stumpy wants you to sit and grind. Over a challenging rock climb the Tantrum makes you feel like you can just easily do it, where on the same rock the Stumpy sucks it up better than the Epic, but you still feel like you have to get ready and attack. I should note this particular Stumpjumper was a size Large carbon, weighed about 1 pound more, had about 20mm more reach. The bottom bracket is quite a bit lower on the Stumpy, and makes it track well as you head downhill but pedal strikes are common. By contrast, the Tantrum is able to avoid the pedal strikes with a high bottom bracket when climbing but slacken into its suspension on the downs and still provide that low bottom bracket carving feeling - all without the rider having to make an adjustment or touch a lever. I really liked my ride on the Stumpjumper 6fattie and I think a lot of riders would like it, especially those looking for some more confidence. But it remains a bike that forces the rider to compromise. I found riding with the climb switch on all the time was the best all round ride. It gave enough support on the climb to feel efficient and was the only way to get support in the hard turns and pumps on the way down. Despite wanting to ride with it in open on the way down and allow the bike to monster truck over everything I found it didn稚 offer the support to push and was less fun. So you end up on a bike where you feel you are making a compromise.

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    Issues:
    I really only have one serious issue with this bike. The seat post is high and the insertion is limited and this combines for a limited ability to fit a decent dropper post. On the medium, the longest dropper I can fit is a 125mm.
    There are a few less serious issues. I壇 prefer it were a little lighter. But for this class of bike I think it is competitive so I can稚 really complain, and after quite a bit of hard riding (I don稚 know exactly how much - I知 swapping bikes too much) all the links and connections are still very tight. Then there is the aesthetic. In the pictures you see on your computer the steep seat stays look a little off, but in person, the bike looks just fine.

    Conclusion:
    I壇 like to say that other bikes will be as good at going down or up or across as long as their suspension lever is in the appropriate setting. But that isn稚 even true. Going up, you just can稚 simultaneously get the firm and efficient feel while also absorbing obstacles with any other bike. Similarly going 疎cross where other bikes require a 奏rail mode or some sort of platform this bike gets all the squish and all the firmness simultaneously. Even going down, there is simultaneously more floaty plushness and firmness to play. There is no doubt that the suspension design behaves as advertised and in my opinion is a game changer. My only gripe with my Kickstarter bought Medium Tantrum Outburst 29er is that I can稚 fit a dropper any larger than 125mm. But apparently, future runs on these bikes will address this issue. So they are awesome and you should get one! Unfortunately, word is they are sold out for a while. But maybe we can talk Brian at Tantrum into taking some more deposits and getting another production run going!
    Now that is a crazy, thorough review. I like the comparisons to the other bikes. Maybe some of those bike companies should read this......

    I'd like to see some comparisons to longer travel bikes. I'd put my 140 mm Outburst against 160 mm bikes.

  53. #1953
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    I'm on private property right now. But I'm about 45 minutes from Dupont/Pisgah. I'm sure you could get a crowd up down there
    Once I clear Eurobike in July, I'll be able to get the demo rig out and about a little bit this summer/fall.

    #getthe****outtamyway


    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-outta-way.jpg

  54. #1954
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Westholm View Post
    Correctomundo! And she still likes here bike allot, even she also are dreaming about having here own Tantrum..

    Design tendencies.. As in cross section shapes of DT and TT tubing? And the nicely milled out gussets and links with sweeping (sensual) lines?

    www.tantrumcycles.com
    somewhat on the tubes, although they continue to evolve depending on design particulars, but for example, I was (one of?) the first to start using a more triangulkar crossection where the HT joins the DT. This increases the weld area and strength and takes more advantage of a tapered HT.

    But for sure on the machined bits. One engineering tenet I always liked was to imagine the flow of stresses and forces. This always influences my shapes and pockets.

    And when trying to make an aluminum bike a competitive weight with carbon competition, insane care must be taken to carve out excess grams while enhancing strength. A seeming contradiction, force flow is the reason. We can make it lighter while reducing/removing stress concentrations that would make it weaker.

    I digress. While I would love your wife to have a Tantrum (mine certainly does), it's so cool to see my old children still playing. At Dirt Fest a couple weeks ago, I saw a G1 Coilair. my firstborn, ugly bastard stepchild. I basically stuffed my Magic Link into an existing Coilair. Mostly to cut down on cost/devo.

    But it was like stuffing a V8 into a Chevy Vega, it might go fast, but it was never gonna look good. Still, I love it and so did the guy still riding it. Original owner.

  55. #1955
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    almost forgot, here's a published German test of the Shinning, 160 mm 29er.

    TANTRUM Shinning 2.0 窶 Update

  56. #1956
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    The extremely frustrating thing about this, especially for a bike designer, is there is supposed to be NO DIFFERENCE in the Q factor (distance between crank arms) from a boost/non boost crank. Only chainline 3 mm more outboard.

    I did have an early customer accidentally have a narrow Q factor set of Race Face Cranks. Same problem you had. Are you sure yours weren't narrow Q (boost or not?)

    For reference, I have an XO and NX (sram) NON BOOST cranks mounted on a couple demo bikes. Chain rings are tight at 30 Tooth, but crank arms are fine. I'll grab some pics.

    Any way, glad you got it sorted and up and running.
    Dang... yeah I don't even want to think of the headache all the new 'standards' (if 'standard' is even a term we can use anymore??) are for designers such as yourself... enough of a pain for the customer attempting to find product to fit one bike!

    You are correct - the descendent crank does seem to sport a Q on the narrower side at 49mm (noticed in that german review they show chainstay scuff and just happens to have a descendent crank! Admittedly with crank boots on). Add that to the Hope GXP adapter pulling things over a mm or two... unfortunate bad combo.

    Worked out better in the end

  57. #1957
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    Follow up to my full review of the Tantrum Outburst post #1946 above

    I had an opportunity to test ride the Rocky Mountain Instinct this weekend. A bike that is very similar on paper to the Tantrum Outburst. 140mm travel front and rear, slacker geo with 29 wheels aimed at having fun on all trails.

    This is sort of a digression, but for those wondering about size comparisons, it might help. I rode the Medium which I felt to be similar in size to my Tantrum also in Medium. The stem was a bit shorter and lower so it felt a little lower, but basically as my Tantrum did before I raised and lengthened the stem. I致e figured out I have a lower body that fits a medium and a torso that fits a large in most bikes. This seems to be true of both the Tantrum and Rocky Mountain. We tried a large and with the seat post slammed it was still a hair too tall, but the cockpit reach was bang on perfect.

    Back to general impressions: The Instinct is an efficient bike. Not a ton of bob and you feel you can put the power to the pedals. It also shreds the downs. Initially I was thinking this bike is pretty good. And I think I壇 be happy with this bike, as I also noted for the Stumpjumper above, IF I NEVER HAD RIDDEN A TANTRUM. The Tantrum is just plain better in all ways. The Instinct was firm, it obviously has some anti-squat engineered in. But you can still push through the anti-squat on hard efforts and you get a bit of bob. Not the efficient, push you forward bob of the Tantrum, but that energy sucking bob. I壇 find myself feeling like someone robbed energy from me after a climb. Then on the downs it was still pretty firm, never feeling soft and floaty. Great for support and pumping, but on a 140mm bike, I壇 like to soak up the bumps a little more. And speaking of soaking up bumps, all the little trail obstacles like rocks and roots that I have come to like running over with my DVO equipped Tantrum were more apparent on this test bike with Fox. The demo guy set it up for me and checked sag and it all seemed good. If it was my own bike, I壇 be playing with it and trying to find better settings. As I said, if I didn稚 know Tantrum existed, I壇 probably be happy with that Instinct. But at the end I was ready to hop back on my Tantrum.

    When I got back on my Tantrum I realized that all of these sensations that I was remembering were in fact true. More plush, but yet easier to climb with. The chunder gets soaked up but hard pedalling efforts are rewarded with forward motion. I was wondering if testing another bike would be a waste of time but I知 so glad I did because it really reinforced for me how great that Tantrum really is.

    And back to the comparison to the Stumpjumper. I noted above that I壇 probably ride that Stumpy in Trail mode all the time so I wouldn稚 have to flick a lever and because it offered nice support on the downs. The Instinct in Open rode more firmly than the Stumpy in Trail. Despite the sag being set well, it probably had a bit too much air in it. But here again we find the compromises one finds in other bikes that you don稚 find in the Tantrum.

  58. #1958
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    A tantrum is coming....

    B. has sent me a "spy pic" of my new ride!
    29" 140 frt, 27.5" 165 rear...in raw clear coat

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-riches-raw.jpg

  59. #1959
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    Veeery nice. Clearcote on Raw or blasted would have been my first choice if my bike had not needed the eye-catching spellbound deeeeeeeeeeep Blood redruM (Murder spelled backwards as seen trough the hotel room mirror in "The Shining") for the duty at Eurobike last year.

    It still seems like my bike are making me faster every day. I'm still not close to the limit on any high speed stability. And almost every ride I'm amazed how easy I get up, trough and down hard technical stuff. It responds so well to pedaling out of the seat to.
    I'm now coincidering going up to 2,6" tyres to maximize grip and cushion. Have anyone tried the new Maxxis Rekon 3C 27.5x2.6" tire in the Diamond fork. And the Spez Slaughter 27,5x2.6" in Tantrum frame. I think that would give me even a bit more speed demon.. Unfortunately non of them tyres are available in Scandinavia it seems..



    www.tantrumcycles.com

  60. #1960
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    ^ I agree to the speed thing

    this bike just wants to be ridden hard and fast at all times. and it lets you do it with no drama. there are no bad decisions anymore, just alternate ones

    My only problem with it, is occasional self-induced pedal strikes...but not in the context that the BB is low or anything the bike is doing...rather, it's in my head and retraining myself

    I'm pedaling uphill through much burlier chunk, more often... and my mind is having a 're-learning curve' timing my selected gear and pedal strokes because I'm pedaling in the badder chunk... and some lines are visually unfamiliar to be on bigger edges, sharper crap, and knobbier roots, while under power and uphill.... as my mind has been trained 'I wouldn't even be on this line on my other bikes, yet here I am'

    so, the pedal strikes are not the bike, it is me understanding 'I now have hammertime access to this line I would typically avoid under power' and therefore need to adapt my body english and pick a taller gear and adjust my timing. I am coming around...but the bike is frikin just killing it no matter what

    I'm getting it. maybe the bike is making me mentally lazy since it poofs along so nice I gotta realize whoa boy you still have to avoid smacking the crank arm sometimes

    it's hard to explain how this bike eats up, I mean soaks up, crud while under climbing power yet sucks zero from you while doing it.
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  61. #1961
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    hey BB:

    did the owner of the hammered lizard with black rear triangle build it and send you pics, and pics you can share ? I thinkn that is the absolute best color: hammered, silver, black.

    would love to see it built
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  62. #1962
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    ^ I agree to the speed thing

    this bike just wants to be ridden hard and fast at all times. and it lets you do it with no drama. there are no bad decisions anymore, just alternate ones

    My only problem with it, is occasional self-induced pedal strikes...but not in the context that the BB is low or anything the bike is doing...rather, it's in my head and retraining myself

    I'm pedaling uphill through much burlier chunk, more often... and my mind is having a 're-learning curve' timing my selected gear and pedal strokes because I'm pedaling in the badder chunk... and some lines are visually unfamiliar to be on bigger edges, sharper crap, and knobbier roots, while under power and uphill.... as my mind has been trained 'I wouldn't even be on this line on my other bikes, yet here I am'

    so, the pedal strikes are not the bike, it is me understanding 'I now have hammertime access to this line I would typically avoid under power' and therefore need to adapt my body english and pick a taller gear and adjust my timing. I am coming around...but the bike is frikin just killing it no matter what

    I'm getting it. maybe the bike is making me mentally lazy since it poofs along so nice I gotta realize whoa boy you still have to avoid smacking the crank arm sometimes

    it's hard to explain how this bike eats up, I mean soaks up, crud while under climbing power yet sucks zero from you while doing it.
    Very well described well beyond what I can explain with my limited English vocabulary..
    This week I happen to be on call in the fire department wich means I need to be in the fire truck within 10 minutes. I've concluded I can ride short loop close to home and still make it no matter where I am if the alarm goes off. So I did spend the evening there and ended up smashing the precious fastest time by a good margin. Funnily I feel I quite easily can go even faster as I learn to trust the bike and how different it can ride in a good way.
    Confidence is theeeee main word!
    And as you describe technical climbs and pedalstrikes. I have just started to learn/remember how efficient the bike is even when I stand up and pedal and sometimes do half strokes up hard cruxes. As soon as I let of the seat and do push-pull ("round"?)pedaling (on cleat pedals) the linkage goes up to(wards) full BB height. Decreasing pedal strike and in the same time pushing the rear tyre down, maintaing grip better then anything else I've tried... AND still staying fully reactive, soaking up roots and rocks...

    ( And no, it's I not a secret anti-wobble steering-dampener under the yellow strap on the TT :-) ... its just my fire&rescue Tetra digital radio )
    Last edited by Gunnar Westholm; 06-30-2018 at 01:48 PM.

  63. #1963
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleR View Post
    B. has sent me a "spy pic" of my new ride!
    29" 140 frt, 27.5" 165 rear...in raw clear coat
    he kinda dared me to do something different with the stickersNew innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-raw-barking-s.jpg

  64. #1964
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    ^LOL

    It's a Tantrum thing, you wouldn't understand.
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  65. #1965
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    .....and it's perfect!!! Sometimes I do things backwards, upside down and twisted!
    Thanks B.

  66. #1966
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flow Chaser View Post
    Follow up to my full review of the Tantrum Outburst post #1946 above

    But here again we find the compromises one finds in other bikes that you don稚 find in the Tantrum.
    I love the detailed comparisons. Maybe some of those brands would like them as well.....I'd love to see you rate your 140 mm tantrum against 160 mm bikes.

  67. #1967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Westholm View Post
    Veeery nice. Clearcote on Raw or blasted would have been my first choice if my bike had not needed the eye-catching spellbound deeeeeeeeeeep Blood redruM (Murder spelled backwards as seen trough the hotel room mirror in "The Shining") for the duty at Eurobike last year.

    It still seems like my bike are making me faster every day. I'm still not close to the limit on any high speed stability. And almost every ride I'm amazed how easy I get up, trough and down hard technical stuff. It responds so well to pedaling out of the seat to.
    I'm now coincidering going up to 2,6" tyres to maximize grip and cushion. Have anyone tried the new Maxxis Rekon 3C 27.5x2.6" tire in the Diamond fork. And the Spez Slaughter 27,5x2.6" in Tantrum frame. I think that would give me even a bit more speed demon.. Unfortunately non of them tyres are available in Scandinavia it seems..



    www.tantrumcycles.com
    Hahaha, I was gonna say "has it been a year already?", but no, Eurobike is a few months earlier this year. I'm leaving next Tuesday for some advance press days. Trying to get some Eurotraction on top of the great review from 29er.de

    I don't even think I had the Raw option for your bike. It was the FIRST ONE BUILT (other than my raw mule). It's a wonder the wheels were on the right direction, if I recall my mindset at the time.

    I tried a 2.6 x 27.5 Rekon in the front. It definitely helped "root isolation" and I think hand fatigue, which is a problem for me.

    But I couldn't shake the feeling that it was sluggish and I needed to go back to my baseline HR/DHR combo for other testing and haven't had the chance to retry.

  68. #1968
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    If you're pimping the bikes at Eurobike then you must have plans for another production run yet you have told us nothing.

  69. #1969
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    If you're pimping the bikes at Eurobike then you must have plans for another production run yet you have told us nothing.
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-fork-grind.jpg

    just keeping my nose to the sanding drum coming up with new stuff

  70. #1970
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    Oooh interesting! I've tried to find out if Rekon 29x2.6" fits in the Diamond, and if that fender needs to be removed/replaced to make room if it does.. Anyone who knows?
    Are you on the same mission??

  71. #1971
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Westholm View Post
    Oooh interesting! I've tried to find out if Rekon 29x2.6" fits in the Diamond, and if that fender needs to be removed/replaced to make room if it does.. Anyone who knows?
    Are you on the same mission??
    I've run up to 27.5 x 2.8 Rekon in the 27.5 Diamond, so I'm guessing the same would be true of the 29er Diamond. I have run the 2.5 HighRoller with lots of room.

    So...no, your guess is off as to my destructive path.

  72. #1972
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    I've run up to 27.5 x 2.8 Rekon in the 27.5 Diamond, so I'm guessing the same would be true of the 29er Diamond. I have run the 2.5 HighRoller with lots of room.

    So...no, your guess is off as to my destructive path.
    Ok. Then it must be a 27,5" Diamond you gonna squeeze a 29" wheel into for lower BB 29er testing?

  73. #1973
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Westholm View Post
    Ok. Then it must be a 27,5" Diamond you gonna squeeze a 29" wheel into for lower BB 29er testing?
    close-ish

    got some new wheels tooNew innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-weareone.jpg

  74. #1974
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    close-ish

    got some new wheels tooClick image for larger version. 

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    Fixed that for you
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-tant.jpg  

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  75. #1975
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    Hmmmnn-ish....

    Well carbon really do make good sense in wheels.
    Especially when they say "radial stiffness is not harsh, with a lateral stiffness that will help you hold a line."

  76. #1976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Westholm View Post
    Hmmmnn-ish....

    Well carbon really do make good sense in wheels.
    Especially when they say "radial stiffness is not harsh, with a lateral stiffness that will help you hold a line."
    the only time I really notice that is either in a highly loaded corner/berm or a crooked jump landing, which I try to avoid.

    but they look sooooo good. And I9 hubs too.

    couldn't even take them out till they cooled off.New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-weareonewheels.jpg

  77. #1977
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    Hey guys!

    Thought I'd add some new trick Tantrum goodies to the pile :P

    Looks like my plans to use parts from other bikes to keep costs down hasn't worked - she's almost completely new now...

    Soooooo ready to finally reveal what sneaky business I've been up to with my headtube badge... and as Brian is super busy and still yet to send over stickers thought I'd try something fun with the TT decal as well

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180627_115151.jpg

    .4mm etched stainless steel - hand shaped by your truly ... had a few copies created to allow for mistakes and glad I did! SS is a pig to shape around that lovely shapely HT Brian created! ... dented and crimped each till finally got it perfect on last one!

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180628_212001.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180628_212044.jpg

    Fingers crossed the glue holds!

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180630_172750.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180630_182934.jpg

    Full bike:
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180630_191628.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180630_191659.jpg

    New parts....
    *Nukeproof Horizon full boost wheelset to match theme
    *2018 Pike RCT3 Debonair boost snagged at a seriously good price - tempted me away from the rather more expensive Fox 36
    *2018 Conti Mountain King 2.6 F&R (nice weight @ 815g each)... clearance a bit tight out back with the tire hairs brushing the brace!
    *180mm ZEE rotors
    *Funnduro 60mm stem - will probably switch this as I'm not keen on the look but will allow me to test the length and was cheap

    Yikes
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180630_192038.jpg
    plenty of room with the new Pike
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180630_192058.jpg

    One last beauty shot
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180630_191933.jpg
    Last edited by ArtyGreg; 06-30-2018 at 06:00 PM.

  78. #1978
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    he kinda dared me to do something different with the stickersClick image for larger version. 

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    Love it!! XD


    And likely story Gunnar:
    "...it's not a secret anti-wobble steering-dampener under the yellow strap on the TT :-) ... its my Tetra fire&rescue digital radio"

    We all know Brian has you testing fancy new tantrum tech! ;P

  79. #1979
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post

    Looks like my plans to use parts from other bikes to keep costs down hasn't worked - she's almost completely new now...
    That 'happened' to me too. Easy to come up with excuses to go new!

    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post

    *2018 Conti Mountain King 2.6 F&R (nice weight @ 815g each)... clearance a bit tight out back with the tire hairs brushing the brace!
    That is a nice weight. Makes me think about switching off Maxxis. But also looks like you have a lot of casing exposed on the running surface. Please let us know how they ride and how they hold up.

    And.... can you post a pic of your head tube badge without the tape and zip ties? Looks cool but hard to see in those pics.

  80. #1980
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flow Chaser View Post
    That 'happened' to me too. Easy to come up with excuses to go new!



    That is a nice weight. Makes me think about switching off Maxxis. But also looks like you have a lot of casing exposed on the running surface. Please let us know how they ride and how they hold up.

    And.... can you post a pic of your head tube badge without the tape and zip ties? Looks cool but hard to see in those pics.

    Heheh yep! :P

    Yeah - I love low weight tires and personally never had an issue with Conti's black chilli compound ... but then again I don't hit rock gardens regularly or put in high mileage numbers per year... but will report back once I've used em a while

    Sorry bud - had to be quick taking pics yesterday as the glue wasn't technically fully set yet so wanted to get the zip ties back on asap - here are a couple closer up :P

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180630_191911.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180630_191737.jpg

  81. #1981
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    Managed a quick blast around the local wood today - I think I'm going to fall in love with this grin inducing machine more and more each time I ride it!

    Readjusted shocks to suit my current weight and descends like a dream 'pop'ing out of every little dip and bump - very lively in a fun 'YEAH LETS GO AGAIN!' way .. not a 'OH MY GOODNESS HELP I'M GOING TO DIE' kinda way

    And climbs ... well ... to put it simply, like a hardtail with benefits, as it also soaks up obstacles

    From this quick first ride on the 2.6 Conti Mountain Kings - the tread pattern makes them surprisingly quiet and smooth on road considering how well they grip on the rough stuff

    A few pics!

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180701_164616-copy.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180701_164748-copy.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180701_164953-copy.jpg

    Higher res versions:
    https://ibb.co/ijGqxJ
    https://ibb.co/coUccJ
    https://ibb.co/frMqxJ

    and a couple of bonus clips - not filmed very well as just my phone stuffed in the dirt. Displaying rather tiny here - but seems if I double click on them they play a larger version... well at least it's something heh :P



  82. #1982
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flow Chaser View Post
    That is a nice weight. Makes me think about switching off Maxxis. But also looks like you have a lot of casing exposed on the running surface. Please let us know how they ride and how they hold up.

    And.... can you post a pic of your head tube badge without the tape and zip ties? Looks cool but hard to see in those pics.
    I used to use Conti mtb tires but switched to Maxxis. It has been two years since I bought a set of Conti tires so they may have fixed my issues with them. The sidewalls are very puncture resistant but also very thin. When new they often seep sealant and take a few weeks to fully seal. If you ride a lot of rock gardens that shave along the sidewalls you may end up wearing out the sidewalls before the tread. The black chili compound was good in dry conditions but pretty terrible on wet (even damp) rocks and roots. My mountain king 2s lasted about 900 miles of Virginia clay and rocks. Still had plenty of tread left and just replaced them due to the number of pinch flats just above the bead and the sidewalls shaving thin from rock gardens. I would have preferred a softer compound with more grip and a little less mileage.

    The X-King compound seemed like it may have been softer but wet traction still sucked. The cornering knobs don't take to long to rip off in my experience. If you don't ride wet conditions I'd still recommend trying them.

  83. #1983
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fajita Dave View Post
    The black chili compound was good in dry conditions but pretty terrible on wet (even damp) rocks and roots.
    I've been riding Contis the last 6yrs+ in wet coastal BC. The black chili rubber is amazing on wet roots/rocks and mud. I ride through the winter with them and the traction is outstanding. I got my GF and friends to try them and they all have had the same experience.

    The rubber has not changed since I've started using them.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  84. #1984
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I've been riding Contis the last 6yrs+ in wet coastal BC. The black chili rubber is amazing on wet roots/rocks and mud. I ride through the winter with them and the traction is outstanding. I got my GF and friends to try them and they all have had the same experience.

    The rubber has not changed since I've started using them.
    and there you have it. I have ridden (generally) both areas and can attest to the need for wet traction.

    Yet you guys have diametrically opposed reviews of the compound.

    Maybe the Va clay??

  85. #1985
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Heheh yep! :P

    Yeah - I love low weight tires and personally never had an issue with Conti's black chilli compound ... but then again I don't hit rock gardens regularly or put in high mileage numbers per year... but will report back once I've used em a while

    Sorry bud - had to be quick taking pics yesterday as the glue wasn't technically fully set yet so wanted to get the zip ties back on asap - here are a couple closer up :P

    And the Meltdown badge on the TT is SS also? Wick Id

    Pretty intense craftsmanship

  86. #1986
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    The fork is ready. Ish

    Before and after.

    This bike I'm building.....THE MOST WICKED BIKE I'VE EVER BUILT.

    No Hype, just fact.

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-fork-before-fr.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-fork-after-fr.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-fork-clearance-before-1.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-fork-after-rr.jpg

  87. #1987
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    And the Meltdown badge on the TT is SS also? Wick Id

    Pretty intense craftsmanship
    Yep! Cheers B!

    Re Black Chilli / Conti tires ... I've been running the lightest high volume Conti's I can get my hands on for a number of years now and don't remember any unusual situation involving lack of grip on wet or dry, loose or rock/roots... never had a pinch puncture but I do run fairly high pressure.

    The first set of superlight conti's I ran were 26x2.4 MountainKing SuperSonics weighing in at around 450g each - heard many stories of pinch flats from people running the 2.2 versions but none from those with the 2.4 ... I ran light tubes never had an issue other than very rare puncture from hefty thorns and rode them everywhere on everything. I'm convinced many other tires would perform as well but not at that weight.

    I can't give as full a recommendation to more recent Conti tires simply because I haven't been able to ride as much - but what I have experienced is positive. Only 'downside' being lightest higher volume tire I could get for my 650b at the time were X King RaceSport 2.4 (610g) I like em but not so much an all round tire... I have higher hopes for these 2.6 MKs

    I'm happy to ride whatever tires work well for me - so far Conti's have ticked the boxes

    Heheh nice job on those forks Brian - guessing you're confident in the safety despite less material??

  88. #1988
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    and there you have it. I have ridden (generally) both areas and can attest to the need for wet traction.

    Yet you guys have diametrically opposed reviews of the compound.

    Maybe the Va clay??
    Maybe even the type of rock we have? I used the MK IIs and X-Kings for 4 years and thought they were great until I tried some Schwalbe tires. The Schwalbe tires gripped wet roots and rocks almost as if they were dry but they wore out way to fast. So I switched to Maxxis and the wet grip seems to be somewhere between the Conti's and Schwalbe. This also seems to be the general consensus of all the racers around here.

    My pinch flats with the Mountain King IIs were running tubeless but it was caused by rim strikes in downhill rock gardens. I didn't get any with Stan's rims but I built a wheel set with Nukeproof DH rims that have taller bead hooks which is when the pinch flats started. I had to up my air pressures a little. Not the tire's fault.

  89. #1989
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    wandering trails I don't have memorized, and 97deg F.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-newa1.jpg  

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-newa2.jpg  

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-newa3.jpg  

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-newa4.jpg  

    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  90. #1990
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    wandering trails I don't have memorized, and 97deg F.
    Ha, is that a map taped to your TT?

    I forgot about the cool red rockers.

    You asked about another lizard with black ass, I can't remember who that is offhand.

    You'd think it's be easier to keep track of 50 or so children, but just like in real life, there's at least 3 or 4 that I NEVER heard from again after they got their bikes.

    Even if I emailed and said "how's it going".

    Ok, those that have emailed me multiple times and I didn't respond....be quiet...I'm the neglected parent in this story.

  91. #1991
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Ha, is that a map taped to your TT?
    openstreetmap inside a freezer baggie, held with a strip of velcro

    the top tube dimensions let me keep velcro wrapped
    and slide it toward the seatpost and take out map, slide it back it's locked
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  92. #1992
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Ha, is that a map taped to your TT?

    I forgot about the cool red rockers.

    You asked about another lizard with black ass, I can't remember who that is offhand.

    You'd think it's be easier to keep track of 50 or so children, but just like in real life, there's at least 3 or 4 that I NEVER heard from again after they got their bikes.

    Even if I emailed and said "how's it going".

    Ok, those that have emailed me multiple times and I didn't respond....be quiet...I'm the neglected parent in this story.

    I just love the shape of the TT!!! feels just perfect for grabbing the bike for lifting up on the rack or over the ocational gigantic obstacles even this bike can't get over Also the triangular corner must be stronger then other shapes. No dings yet even the TT have been smacked against a few rocks when pushing myself a bit to far...wich the bike really just keeps encourage me to do!

    One of the non responding kids probably are some of that funny web troll critics bring wealthy enough to order a bike just to use as proof in case your linkage did not work as advertised. Then have mean plan to weaken it and ride it to pieces, and put a video of it on YouTube... The other are probably Chinese mafia counting on the missing link would work just as advertised. And right now producing clones ready to flood the market trough AliExpress!!!

    Now back to write you another email about a some silly observation just to make my other crazy ideas seeme worthy to respond to ... Then out to do surgery on the non repairable Valeo startermotor on our Renault Espace. It would be sooooooo nice if don't have to start it by bridging all 3 solenoid-contact connectors with a wrench in a rain of sparks trough our wacaition trip..

  93. #1993
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Yep! Cheers B!

    Re Black Chilli / Conti tires ... I've been running the lightest high volume Conti's I can get my hands on for a number of years now and don't remember any unusual situation involving lack of grip on wet or dry, loose or rock/roots... never had a pinch puncture but I do run fairly high pressure.
    FWIW - I ordered up one of the new 29 x 2.4" Conti Trail Kings [2018 version] and compared it to the older 2.4" version. The tread is similar enough I'd have no issues with it, but Conti made the casing smaller. The old 2.4 was actually more like 2.45" tire and bigger casing than a lot of the 2.5" tires on the market. I guess Conti decided to make them true to size.

    Last thing I wanted was a smaller tire so I ordered up four of the old version 29 x 2.4" TKs on clearance before the old stock was all gone.

    In Conti's defence they are making a 2.6" version which I have no complaints about.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  94. #1994
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    wandering trails I don't have memorized, and 97deg F.
    Nice pics! - bike looking good as always dude ...

    Vikb - Interesting - had a gut feeling recent '2.4' tires were looking narrower than they used to be... the 2.6 work well for me

  95. #1995
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    The finall part of the (very positive) review from twentynineinches-de.com is out now:

    TANTRUM Shinning 2.0 窶 Testfazit

    Mark II is given for end of 2018; Brian, do you confirm that?

  96. #1996
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    One of the non responding kids probably are some of that funny web troll critics bring wealthy enough to order a bike just to use as proof in case your linkage did not work as advertised. Then have mean plan to weaken it and ride it to pieces, and put a video of it on YouTube... The other are probably Chinese mafia counting on the missing link would work just as advertised. And right now producing clones ready to flood the market trough AliExpress!!!
    Or maybe they just didn't get along with the bike and didn't want to be negative.

  97. #1997
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    Or maybe they just didn't get along with the bike and didn't want to be negative.
    The problem with that approach is that it's kinda hard for me to help in that case.

    I mean, if I bought a new frame and for some (any) reason didn't think it was working like it should, I would definitely bug they guy I bought it from and say "hey, watcha got for me?"

    And I doubt he would mind at all.

  98. #1998
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    Or maybe they just didn't get along with the bike and didn't want to be negative.
    ok, here's another reason that doesn't make sense.

    Money back guarantee. And I NEED more bikes. My waiting list isn't getting any shorter and some people would love a gently used or demo bike.

  99. #1999
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    currently at Eurobike. Show starts Monday.

    I don't have a booth, so I'll just practive wheelies in the beer garden on my new Shinning

    165 mm 29er, 63 deg HTA this thing is just silly.

    Oh, new paint. Albino Lizard

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-white-lizard-1.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-works-lower-.jpg

  100. #2000
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    Sweeet showbike Brian! I really wish I could meet up and join you wheelieing.. I'll make it next year when Mk2 is out!!!

    I finally got hold of more volume spacer-bands. The positive chamber had room for one more, wich should cure the slight bottom out issue on very harsh impacts/ flat landings.
    I have not yet bothered to unscrew the bottom shock mount to see how many spacers there is in the negative chamber, as I first want to be sure I understand how adjusting the negative chamber affects the shock. Will adding negativ spacers decrease the sag?
    In my mind it should also make it harder for the linkage to extend fully when climbing, wich I'd really would not like it to.

    This video cleared things up for me a bit.
    https://youtu.be/3HeL5NNHbFw
    But since Missing Link have the unique ability to change geometry it makes tuning a bit more complex..

    Just noticed this is post #2000 in this thread! Excellent opportunity to celebrate with a stiff Irish Jameson...
    Last edited by Gunnar Westholm; 07-09-2018 at 12:00 PM.

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