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  1. #1701
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaelP View Post
    Hello!

    I've got this Orbea Rallon X-LTD 2014:
    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/orbea-...view-2014.html

    If I think about a bike update it could be changing the frame with a Tantrum Meltdown.

    However as I'm 6.3 feets tall, and I fell my actual bike a little bit too short, I've tried to compare the Meltdown L size to the Rallon L size for checking if the meltdown is longer.

    Reach is quite the same (470/467), but wheel base is longer, 1220 instead of 1204. Perhaps it's due to a the head angle, 65į instead of 66į.

    Brian do you have in plan to make a frame with a longer reach like 480 mm?
    Do you think your L size is the good size for a 6,3" tall biker?

    For example a Trek Remedy size 21,5" have a 483mm reach, and a 1230 mm wheel base.

    Thanks!
    As we've discussed earlier, while reach tends to be a decent indicator of what your standing attack position might be, it doesn't do much for your seated fit when pedaling. It's also important to look at the top tube length, even though it's very out of fashion at the moment, it is still important. I'm 6'3 and I think the Large will work fine for me. But I'm probably a few months away from finding out, unless Brian goes into the miracle business sometime soon.

  2. #1702
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    Thanks Cotharyus.

    Which is the shock length?

    I've got an old Fox RP23 200mm with 57mm travel perhaps it could fit to this frame.

  3. #1703
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    My 140mm Outburst has a 200x50. Not sure if the Meltdowns are different.

  4. #1704
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    "Not sure if the Meltdowns are different...."

    Yes, a little different. Meltdown uses 200mmx57mm
    Last edited by c-dale99; 01-30-2018 at 08:10 PM.

  5. #1705
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    ....
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  6. #1706
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    ....
    is Lizard Envy a thing?

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-black-lizard-s.jpg

  7. #1707
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    !!!!
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  8. #1708
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    Probably yes! We need to see one built up!! What about black links and dropouts to??? Stealth Lizard!!!

    www.cyco.no

  9. #1709
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    Dear Brian.

    Is it possible to have also the frame anodised?
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  10. #1710
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    wow, that is intriguing.

  11. #1711
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaelP View Post
    Thanks Cotharyus.

    Which is the shock length?

    I've got an old Fox RP23 200mm with 57mm travel perhaps it could fit to this frame.
    Although the physical size of the shock would bolt up, I would not recommend using it.
    I believe the internal TUNE of the shock would be vastly different, this bike requires a much lighter tune than most others.

    Brian has it dialed in. I would hate to see you spend good money on this bike and not be getting the full benefits of his design.

    I have about 60 miles on my bike now, it still amazing to me how well this bike performs!

  12. #1712
    CTB
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    Speaking of shocks, a couple random notes:

    * I popped open my DVO. Positive side has 5 volume reducers in it, or at least mine did on my Outburst (200x50). I think someone had asked about this somewhere in the 18 pages.
    * If you remove your shock, be slow and careful. There are small washers on each side of the upper shock eye. If you are ham-fisted, you could easily lose or damage them. Take your time.

  13. #1713
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    Speaking of shocks, a couple random notes:

    * I popped open my DVO. Positive side has 5 volume reducers in it, or at least mine did on my Outburst (200x50). I think someone had asked about this somewhere in the 18 pages.
    * If you remove your shock, be slow and careful. There are small washers on each side of the upper shock eye. If you are ham-fisted, you could easily lose or damage them. Take your time.
    Interesting to know, Thanks
    I have been interested on installing some volume spacers to play with my setup, maybe I should take a peek inside before I go any further??

  14. #1714
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    is Lizard Envy a thing?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    yeah, well MINE is ....ummm...red and stuff

    this one is badass. the owner of this wins +1 internets
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  15. #1715
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    About prices when on the website I read '2018 Price will be approximately $2,400', it's only the frame and an X-fusion shock?
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  16. #1716
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    Here she be. is this a southern hemisphere first? Headset issues dealt with (I hope). Rear brake needs a longer hose. Note to taller riders since there is some debate, size L effective TT is actually 640mm and the reach is about 455mm. Thats old school - hence the 130mm stem... First ride tomorrow, wish me luck!

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-img_2103.jpg

  17. #1717
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mashlings View Post
    Here she be.
    Nice build sir! Digging the skinwalls ... goodness me that saddle is high and yeah been a few years since I've used anything like a 130mm stem - old school but the bike still looks great

    All the best on your maiden voyage!!
    Last edited by ArtyGreg; 02-03-2018 at 05:17 AM.

  18. #1718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mashlings View Post
    Here she be. is this a southern hemisphere first? Headset issues dealt with (I hope). Rear brake needs a longer hose. Note to taller riders since there is some debate, size L effective TT is actually 640mm and the reach is about 455mm. Thats old school - hence the 130mm stem... First ride tomorrow, wish me luck!
    Those numbers don't seem that "old school" at all for a size large. It looks like you just need a larger bike!

  19. #1719
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mashlings View Post
    Here she be. is this a southern hemisphere first? Headset issues dealt with (I hope). Rear brake needs a longer hose. Note to taller riders since there is some debate, size L effective TT is actually 640mm and the reach is about 455mm. Thats old school - hence the 130mm stem... First ride tomorrow, wish me luck!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Looks Nice, Mashling!
    I just got my large built up last night. Hope to put some miles on this weekend.
    I think you will be fine, on the large. I was ripping a medium until now. Thanks Brian

  20. #1720
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    I thought reach was more along the lines of 470-475. Have you ever measured reach before on a frame ? and matched it to published specs ?
    Either way you're a giant if that's how you're setup !

  21. #1721
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    Those numbers don't seem that "old school" at all for a size large. It looks like you just need a larger bike!
    In Tantrum World L isn't Large, it's Long. Only I suspect they didn't turn out to be as long as expected. If you look at the geo chart Tantrum L equates to most bike companies XL, but as I say, reality may differ. And yeah, I do need a larger frame but I really wanted to try this suspension for myself so I'll make it work.

  22. #1722
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    I thought reach was more along the lines of 470-475. Have you ever measured reach before on a frame ? and matched it to published specs ?
    Either way you're a giant if that's how you're setup !
    Yeah, I know, sometimes it's hard being the only one with a tape measure ; )
    #rocketscience

    I'm not the gushy type, still, the first ride was interesting, and promising. I have to spend a lot more time on this bike before I write much because I have been riding and loving a steel hardtail for the last year and my only experience of duallys is 100mm XC bikes, which this really isn't!

    I suspect the suspension really does what it's meant to, very active at all times and I can see what Brian means about the forks not keeping up, though mine will take a while to break in from past experience.

    I could really do with some advice on the DVO shock set up. I have a feeling mine is not playing nice yet.

    And boy, 29" wheels eh? Who thought that was a good idea with slack geo and a 130mm stem? Oh brother...

  23. #1723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mashlings View Post
    Yeah, I know, sometimes it's hard being the only one with a tape measure ; )
    Fair difference to what Brian has listed as reach, ETT etc - where are you measuring from/to etc if you don't mind me asking?

    Yeah... I'm also fairly new to the whole dual squish thing - can't wait to see how the tantrum compares to my current squishy bike :P

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-f4efe1_263da13c99a2412999414cc6372d2ebe%7Emv2.jpg

  24. #1724
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Fair difference to what Brian has listed as reach, ETT etc - where are you measuring from/to etc if you don't mind me asking?

    Yeah... I'm also fairly new to the whole dual squish thing - can't wait to see how the tantrum compares to my current squishy bike :P

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Sorry I I sounded facetious but Brian has confirmed my measurements on the L frames he had left in stock. Being so tall I tend to obsess about these things so I take these measurements with every new frame I get, you'd be surprised how often they deviate from spec, and they are always shorter-never longer!
    First thing I did when I got the frame was to stick an old seatpost in it, set it up in the stand and rest a long spirit level from the centre-line of the headtube top over to where it cut the seatpost centre-line. I marked this intersection then measured the resulting distance, that's your ETT. Reach doesn't really interest me much but I measured that by holding the level vertically through the BB and taking the distance forwards to the headtube CL as above. Stands to reason if the ETT measurement is shorter the Reach will be too.
    The only distance I actually care about is that from the intersection of saddle top/seatpost CL to the bar CL at my correct saddle height. If that's not 810-820mm I change the stem until it is-hence the 130mm stem here.
    I really don't care what stem length I run as long as it works but this bike really doesn't like the long one at all. Steering is heavy as you initiate a turn and then, wham! Round she snaps, trying to flick you over the front end. I'm trying a shorter stem but there is a limit to how short I can go.
    Will ultimately get an XL frame if I find the suspension works the way I feel it might.

  25. #1725
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    Thanks Mashlings - no worries! I understood where you were coming from so was just intrigued as Brian will confirm I've been obsessing over these measurements also!

    Wasn't sure if I should be going for L or M as I measure up as L usually but tend to prefer riding an M... from what I could tell from measuring my current 2 bikes (one M and the other L) The M Tantrum should sit bang between the two ... as I find my M a little cramped and my L a tad stretched .... hoping the Tantrum will be spot on

    Hope you can figure out your set up - can imagine a long stem would be less than ideal!

    Yeah sounds like a plan! How wide are your bars btw? I wonder if you could give yourself a little extra by widening cockpit a little?

  26. #1726
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    Hi everyone. Iíve been traveling, so havenít posted in lately. As of last Friday, ALL Kickstarter frames had been received and ALL Kickstarter complete bikes have been shipped.

    As of this writing, all have been received except the complete bike to Australia, which is going thru customs

    While there are still a few post KS frames to deliver (Preston, Greg) I couldnít squeeze them out before I left last weekend

    Why did I leave?? BluesCruise. 7 days of on a ship with 50 top line blues acts (including Kenny Wayne Sheppard and Buddy guy) and 2-3 jams per day/night. Last nite I had Walter Troutís drummer sit in on my set

    I had this planned since I went last year. In my wildest dreams I never thought Iíd still be delivering bikes, so it was really nice to be able to complete the Kickstarter before leaving

    Iíll be back next week to wrap up the rest of you guys

  27. #1727
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Hi everyone. Iíve been traveling, so havenít posted in lately. As of last Friday, ALL Kickstarter frames had been received and ALL Kickstarter complete bikes have been shipped.

    As of this writing, all have been received except the complete bike to Australia, which is going thru customs

    While there are still a few post KS frames to deliver (Preston, Greg) I couldnít squeeze them out before I left last weekend

    Why did I leave?? BluesCruise. 7 days of on a ship with 50 top line blues acts (including Kenny Wayne Sheppard and Buddy guy) and 2-3 jams per day/night. Last nite I had Walter Troutís drummer sit in on my set

    I had this planned since I went last year. In my wildest dreams I never thought Iíd still be delivering bikes, so it was really nice to be able to complete the Kickstarter before leaving

    Iíll be back next week to wrap up the rest of you guys
    Buddy Guy. That's fantastic. I play also the harmonica and sing the blues. I've got the chance to see 2 times in live Bob Margolin, for us from Europe hearing real blues musicians is really rare. You're a lucky guy.

    Here is a song that you've certainly played many times. Sorry for the accent. Got my mojo worrking .
    Last edited by GaelP; 02-09-2018 at 10:58 AM.
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  28. #1728
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    I have been out of any serious mountain biking for around 10 years. When I stumbled across the Kickstarter campaign it (the frame design) really caught my attention. I received my frame December 28th and built it up the first week of January. I live in western New York. Even with the snow and cold I have been out a half dozen times on the bike. I can't give a real review since most of the riding has been on bike paths and 4 wheeler trails. The first couple rides were a learning experience since I have only ever rode 26" wheeled bikes. Going to a 27.5 + bike with a slack head angle was a big change. The last couple of rides I have felt much more at home on the bike. I am excited to be back into riding again and look forward to putting a lot of miles on the bike this year.

    After reading about some of you using a dropper post I have been considering going that route. My one question is how did you all run the cable for the dropper post? My guess is using the internal routing from the upper right side of the down tube but wasn't sure about the bend the cable would need to go around the bottom bracket? Any help would be appreciated.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180210_151217.jpg  


  29. #1729
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    Nice build Instigator! Awesome to hear you're getting back into riding again

    Interested to hear your thoughts on the Bomboloni tire - I'll be going for something similar I reckon ... surprised to find out it's 3"... what size have you fitted to the back?

    Happy trails!

  30. #1730
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    ArtyGreg,

    I have a Maxxis Rekon 2.6 on the rear. After I purchase the 29er dropouts from Brian I plan on putting a 3.0" Bomboloni on the rear also. May of last year when I was buying all the parts for the Tantrum I found a great deal on the pair of Bomboloni's new take offs.

  31. #1731
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    Quote Originally Posted by Instigator24 View Post

    After reading about some of you using a dropper post I have been considering going that route. My one question is how did you all run the cable for the dropper post? My guess is using the internal routing from the upper right side of the down tube but wasn't sure about the bend the cable would need to go around the bottom bracket? Any help would be appreciated.
    You are correct, it routes from the upper right side through the bottom bracket area and up the seat tube. It is easier to do with the bb removed and issues have been reported with bbs made for 30 mm spindles.

  32. #1732
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    Hi all,
    Just a cautionary note about that bloody awful rear brake routing. Had to cut short a ride yesterday when there was a big bang crossing a creek bed. Thought I'd bottomed out the rear end, which was odd as I never bottom out anything. Next time I pulled on the rear brake the lever came all the way to the bar - nothing. Turns out the brake hose had moved during the ride and been crushed between the shock body and the weld round the shock socket. This is despite following the instructions here about taping the cable in an arc around the shock and checking before each ride. Some cosmetic damage to shock, nixed rear brake hose and shock and BB contaminated with brake fluid. Very glad its Shimano mineral oil not Dot fluid. Anyway, be extra careful with the routing as the action of the suspension tends to pull the hose towards the shock over time and I can foresee damage to the shock air sleeve resulting in no suspension if you are especially unlucky. It was a big bang!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-image1.jpg  

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-image2.jpg  


  33. #1733
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    Quote Originally Posted by Instigator24 View Post
    ArtyGreg,

    I have a Maxxis Rekon 2.6 on the rear. After I purchase the 29er dropouts from Brian I plan on putting a 3.0" Bomboloni on the rear also. May of last year when I was buying all the parts for the Tantrum I found a great deal on the pair of Bomboloni's new take offs.
    Cheers Instigator, just so I'm clear ... you're running 27.5x3" front and 27.5x2.6" rear at the moment... but are you switching to 29x3" F&R or just need the 29er dropouts to fit a 27.5x3" on the rear??

    I'll be trying to keep weight down as much as possible so nice to see the Bomboloni 27.5x3" isn't too hefty at 890g for 'TNT' version.

    Edit... Yikes Mashlings - what a bummer! thanks for the heads up though - will be keeping a close eye on mine once I get it built up! (Sorting final details with Brian before he gets mine packaged up and on it's way )

  34. #1734
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    Brake line routing is solvable by a nylon tie wrap as seen here ahead of pocket
    [also will be solved in next and future runs]

    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  35. #1735
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    brake line routing

    Sorry to see that Mashling.
    Like you my brake line was a bit short, so I bypass the one clip. This has been problem free over a 160mi. now. Blessing in disguise?
    How are getting along with the large frame? I have been on my large frame now for two weeks at 6' 4". 810mm bar width, 50mm stem
    I'm Loving it!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-tantrum1-800x600-.jpg  


  36. #1736
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    Installed my new crankset today, which is Boost. From what I see, a 32T oval will not fit, even with a Boost crankset. I have a 30T oval (which is the size of a 32T on the long axis), and the clearance there looks like it will not be enough if you want to run a 32T oval or a 34T round.

    DSC06410a by ctbtyper, on Flickr

  37. #1737
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    Installed my new crankset today, which is Boost. From what I see, a 32T oval will not fit, even with a Boost crankset. I have a 30T oval (which is the size of a 32T on the long axis), and the clearance there looks like it will not be enough if you want to run a 32T oval or a 34T round.

    DSC06410a by ctbtyper, on Flickr
    Oooooh I used to like bar-ends. But those bull-horns hurts my eye's Fun to see a Tantrum with em doe. I've coincidering trying http://www.spirgrips.com or the sq lab equivalent https://www.sq-lab.com/shop/Innerbarends/
    Seems allot easier to swap positions on for comfort and rest

    Sent fra min Moto G (5) Plus via Tapatalk

  38. #1738
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    We have trees where I live, and they don't move when you run a little wide and smack your hand into them. My Ergons have saved my hands and brake levers more times than I can count, so I really don't care at all that they aren't in fashion. As a bonus, they are a nice place to grip when powering up a sudden, short climb.

    The stubby bar ends were killers (they'd hook the bike right out from under you), but I've never hooked one of these Ergons.

  39. #1739
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    Installed my new crankset today, which is Boost. From what I see, a 32T oval will not fit, even with a Boost crankset. I have a 30T oval (which is the size of a 32T on the long axis), and the clearance there looks like it will not be enough if you want to run a 32T oval or a 34T round.

    DSC06410a by ctbtyper, on Flickr
    Im running a 32T Absolute Black oval on a non boost Shimano crankset by chucking 4mm of spacers behind the drive side BB cup. Probably not recommended long term but there is plenty of clearance until my boost cranks turn up. Don't see why there should be clearance issues with boost if the cranks do actually have 3mm offset. Guess I'll find out...

  40. #1740
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    Mashlings, definitely let us know what you find. I'm using a Shimano M8000 XT boost crank, Absolute Black 30T, and one drive-side spacer in the BB, as per usual Shimano instructions. My chainline appears to be right on 53mm. I'll post pics tomorrow showing the tightest clearance location.

  41. #1741
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    We have trees where I live, and they don't move when you run a little wide and smack your hand into them. My Ergons have saved my hands and brake levers more times than I can count, so I really don't care at all that they aren't in fashion. As a bonus, they are a nice place to grip when powering up a sudden, short climb.

    The stubby bar ends were killers (they'd hook the bike right out from under you), but I've never hooked one of these Ergons.
    I agree short bar ends are a no-no. I swapped from bull-horns to some short ergo one's. (When I as the last one around could not stand the pressure of fashion ) Manage to hook on a thick bush within a few weeks. After I went for bikes that alters the climbing geometry (the manual adjusted Scot Genius and the tantrum predecessor, Kona Abracadabra) I no longer feel the need for barends for climbing since I prefer more or less technic trails that needs frequent gear changes. And the Missinglink improves climbing so much more then altering hand positing can .. But I sometimes miss the option of resting in a more aerodynamic position that the inside grisp give.
    Keep on rocki'n your bullride! :-)

    Sent fra min Moto G (5) Plus via Tapatalk

  42. #1742
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    It interests me seeing these bike builds. Here we have a bike claiming to be at the pinnacle of technology, with new designs and concepts never experienced before, and most of the bike build kits owners are choosing put the rest of the bike at 2005 tech! No droppers, long stems, narrow bars, 2x drive trains, bar ends, etc. I'm not being critical, I just think it's an interesting outcome.

  43. #1743
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    This was about the best angle I could get showing the clearance to the chainstay with the Absolute Black 30T oval chain ring and M8000 Boost crankset at the tightest point in the rotation. Click on it for a bigger view.

    2018-02-18_09-39-37 by ctbtyper, on Flickr

  44. #1744
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    Aaaaand it's arrived!! 3days ahead of shedule

    Rubbish lighting but first glimpse of my colour choice

    More pics to follow as I start the build

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180219_212420.jpg

  45. #1745
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    It interests me seeing these bike builds. Here we have a bike claiming to be at the pinnacle of technology, with new designs and concepts never experienced before, and most of the bike build kits owners are choosing put the rest of the bike at 2005 tech! No droppers, long stems, narrow bars, 2x drive trains, bar ends, etc. I'm not being critical, I just think it's an interesting outcome.
    Ah yes, herd mentality at its best
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  46. #1746
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    This was about the best angle I could get showing the clearance to the chainstay with the Absolute Black 30T oval chain ring and M8000 Boost crankset at the tightest point in the rotation. Click on it for a bigger view.

    2018-02-18_09-39-37 by ctbtyper, on Flickr
    Hi CBT,
    Do you think you'd have enough clearance without the BB spacer? Looking at mine, I could remove a spacer down to 3mm and still get enough gap with a 32T so boost cranks shouldn't need any spacers? If I'm going to need spacers anyway I might as well stick with the crank I have.
    Still waiting for a brake hose... getting fidgety, might swap those dropouts and put some proper sized wheels in!

  47. #1747
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    It looks like my 30T oval would JUST clear at the tight spot without the BB spacer in there. That would give it a 50.5 chainline since the spacers are 2.5mm each. So I'd say there's no way a 32T oval would clear without the spacer. Pretty sure it won't clear with the spacer, either, but that's a bit of a guess based on what I've tried (32T oval with 49mm chainline = crashed into chainstay; worked with a ~57mm chainline). A 32T round would, but not 32T oval.

  48. #1748
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    Better photos of the frame as some nice sun out today

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180220_134014.jpg
    Loving the decal colour match :P

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180220_134114.jpg
    Frame 45 ... hopefully one of the first of many to be released into the wild

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180220_134002.jpg
    Nice lil message on the BB from BB! - thanks man!

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180220_134323.jpg
    Close up of this interesting Walnut blasted clearcoat finish.

    Currently planning which parts I'll need to get hold of / whether to go whole hog new build... VERY tempting as I LOVE building bikes almost as much as riding them... but I think I hear my bank balance screaming... so for now you'll have to excuse some colour clashing from my commencal's neon green colour scheme.

  49. #1749
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaelP View Post
    Buddy Guy. That's fantastic. I play also the harmonica and sing the blues. I've got the chance to see 2 times in live Bob Margolin, for us from Europe hearing real blues musicians is really rare. You're a lucky guy.

    Here is a song that you've certainly played many times. Sorry for the accent. Got my mojo worrking .
    Are you trying to say that's you singing and playing harp on that recording? That's pretty hot. That song is a blast.

    The cruise was a complete blast. I jammed every day and every nite with all manor of musicians. If I can, I will do it every year.

    So, I'm kinda back to work

  50. #1750
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mashlings View Post
    Hi all,
    Just a cautionary note about that bloody awful rear brake routing. Had to cut short a ride yesterday when there was a big bang crossing a creek bed. Thought I'd bottomed out the rear end, which was odd as I never bottom out anything. Next time I pulled on the rear brake the lever came all the way to the bar - nothing. Turns out the brake hose had moved during the ride and been crushed between the shock body and the weld round the shock socket. This is despite following the instructions here about taping the cable in an arc around the shock and checking before each ride. Some cosmetic damage to shock, nixed rear brake hose and shock and BB contaminated with brake fluid. Very glad its Shimano mineral oil not Dot fluid. Anyway, be extra careful with the routing as the action of the suspension tends to pull the hose towards the shock over time and I can foresee damage to the shock air sleeve resulting in no suspension if you are especially unlucky. It was a big bang!
    It is unfortunate that the brake line guides tend to make the line encroach on the shock hole. I encountered this early on and posted updated here and on kickstarter, but of coarse it's hard to take everyone's situation into account, like when your line is too short or the fittings don't rotate on the caliper, for instance.

    Other posters have shown other solutions. Putting a bit of electrical tape on the brake line, both above and below the shock hole, is my solution. Virtually invisible, it will hold the brake line "slightly long" between those guides, forcing it to curve around the weld of the shock hole.

    I have had no issues with this in all of the testing and demo rides. And no, despite the optical illusion, the line does not protrude out past the downtube.

    I still recommend this, but care must be taken to insure enough tape is used and also that there is enough brake line to NOT pull that curve tight during suspension or steering action.

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-brake-line-1.jpg

  51. #1751
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    Quote Originally Posted by keo View Post
    You are correct, it routes from the upper right side through the bottom bracket area and up the seat tube. It is easier to do with the bb removed and issues have been reported with bbs made for 30 mm spindles.
    The dropper cable curves up into the seat tube AHEAD of the BB, so the spindle is not a problem.

    The problem with 30 mm spindles has been the shell interfering with the shifter cable, which runs under it.

  52. #1752
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    It interests me seeing these bike builds. Here we have a bike claiming to be at the pinnacle of technology, with new designs and concepts never experienced before, and most of the bike build kits owners are choosing put the rest of the bike at 2005 tech! No droppers, long stems, narrow bars, 2x drive trains, bar ends, etc. I'm not being critical, I just think it's an interesting outcome.
    I would say about 75% of the bikes were built up in pretty much "enduro" spec. Dropper, 160-170 mm travel, 35-50 mm stem, 760-800 mm bars.

    But, the last bikes to be delivered were 29ers, most of them in the shorter, 140 mm travel version. These people want a lighter, more trail bike version.

    The Missing Link serves both masters. For the more aggressive, all mountain crowd, it climbs and descends better.

    For the XC/Trail crowd....um, well, it climbs and descends better.

    But I think your comment is more relative to the fact that the people that ordered the shorter travel 29ers are now just getting them, so you are seeing more trail oriented builds. Oh, and long stems from some really tall guys trying to squeeze on to my L frame.

  53. #1753
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    >2x drive trains

    I haven't seen anyone building a 2* yet, maybe I will be the first.

  54. #1754
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    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Are you trying to say that's you singing and playing harp on that recording? That's pretty hot. That song is a blast.

    The cruise was a complete blast. I jammed every day and every nite with all manor of musicians. If I can, I will do it every year.

    So, I'm kinda back to work
    Yes that's me but 25 years ago!
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  55. #1755
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    >2x drive trains

    I haven't seen anyone building a 2* yet, maybe I will be the first.
    You will be the first....and I may be counting on some of the talent you showed on your Mustang to make it happen...

    one person has tried and gave up after concluding that everything was just too tight.

    I have another customer not too happy because I didn't even try on their complete build, I just upgraded to an Eagle 12 speed. To be fair, I never offered a 2X drivetrain on complete builds but I DID claim it was possible.

    Why do I now have doubts? Fr Ders, like the rest of the drivetrain, was and is a moving target. SRAM and Shimano each have their own direct mount. Throw in high swing/low swing/top pull/bottom pull/2X/3X/boost/non/highclamp/lowclamp.

    Now put a bunch of linkage in the way.

    I designed it to use a Shimano direct mount derailleur with integrated cable stop. We debated to weld on cable stops, but didn't make sense for 2% of the customers. So integrated and adhesive stops were the plan.

    We debated whether to weld on a direct mount. Again, for 2% of sales, it didn't make sense. I was also afraid of being married to that, when everything changes. For example, the Der I used for my sample is no longer made. So I ddin't want to eliminate the potential to use a clamp type der (or clamp on direct mount).

    In the end, my desire to remain flexible and serve all masters may have backfired.

    Now that the dust has settled on the kickstarter bikes (hey, you are actually POST kickstarter, how 'bout that??!!) I can play with it a little more myself. But hey, you'll either have it all figured out by then or have ripped me a new one for making it impossible.

    Your frame arrives today???

  56. #1756
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaelP View Post
    Yes that's me but 25 years ago!
    doesn't that mean you sound better now?

    Great blues voice

  57. #1757
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaelP View Post
    for us from Europe hearing real blues musicians is really rare.
    every year at Eurobike, I make a stop in Amsterdam to play at a couple clubs there. The crowd always seems to appreciate my "american blues" for lack of a better term.

  58. #1758
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    The beauty of the new side swing FD's is that they don't require any cable stops or guides whatsoever. The Shimano FD also offers 4 different mounting modules for the same base FD piece (DM, post mount, etc)

    I won't be freaking out if it doesn't work, Its a compromise but I could manage to live with 12 speed, although it'd be nice to have something running until Shimano 12 comes out this Spring to see what they are offering (although its still a rumor this is coming).

    >Your frame arrives today???

    I never saw the tracking number so who knows when its arriving ?

  59. #1759
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    Hey folks,

    First post here. I am a Tantrum Outburst owner and will post my build notes and some pics, but first I thought I'd just say hello and make sure the account is working and that I can post a pic.

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-img_6068.jpg

  60. #1760
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Ok, it worked - so here goes.

    Kickstarter backer. Went with the Outburst 29er. 140/140 DVO.
    I'm 5'10" on a Medium. Bars are 820mm and a 35mm stem. I will likely make the bars narrower (like mid to high 700s) and put a slightly longer stem on. I have short legs and a long torso and there is less reach than ideal.... but I haven't taken it on a 'real' ride yet so any changes will wait for that. Wheels and bars are carbon. Primarily XT components.

    Out of the box / first impression:
    - Bike was very well packed and safe from harm.
    - First impression is the bike is overbuilt, itís a beast! Better to err on this side of the equation. In any case, it appears that it can take a solid beating. And weight could be saved if Brian didn't make it such a beast!

    Build up:
    The build was pretty straight forward with the bottom bracket threading in nicely, the internal routed cables moving through as easily as could be expected. The bike did not come with a seatpost clamp (34.9) so I had to get one from the LBS. Also, the bolts on the rear brake reached the end of the threading before the caliper was secured so some spacers were required on the high side of the caliper.

    Complications:
    The only complications were with the 2x setup and the dropper post.

    2x: I really like a 2x drivetrain and was happy when it was listed as an option during the Kickstarter campaign. Brian warned me before he sent me the frame that it might not actually work. I already had purchased the drivetrain, and Iím pretty good with problem solving, so I thought Iíd give it a go. It was really close to working after solving many hurdles, but in the end, it was a no-go because the derailleur would hit the suspension linkage when in the smaller chainring. It just would not go low enough to make that shift or even carry the chain in the small ring. I ended up OneUpíing my drivetrain which had the same green as the DVO accents, which worked out ok aesthetically, I hope you will agree .

    Dropper: after reading about some folks having issues fitting droppers, I was extra careful. Did a lot of measuring and decided I had to go with a 125mm dropper. I have proportionally shorter legs and a longer torso with an inseam of 30Ē and height of 5í10Ē, which further complicates things. I test fit a rigid seatpost and found that it would go in 150mm into my Med Outburst frame for those of you still waiting to do your calcs. I was tempted to go with BIkeYoke after the favourable reviews but my LBS has KS Lev posts and I have them on my other bikes so I just went with that Ė the measurements seemed like it should work. When I installed it, something looked off. But this was nearly one of the first things on the bike because of the internal routing so I couldnít get on and pedal it to test it until I go the drivetrain figured out Ė and as noted above, I was trying to figure out how to fit a front mech. So, cutting to the chase, when I finally got on it I found it was a shade too tall. Like 15-20mm. Just enough to feel weird but be rideable. I figured I must have made a mis-calc somewhere and started looking at the measurements again. Thatís when I realized that in the box labelled 125mm was in fact a 150mm dropper shaft. I swapped out my saddle to a lower profile saddle, and moved the saddle forward. In the end Iím still about 5-10mm off of ideal. A foot bed in my shoe? Maybe. More likely Iíll just swap the mast to the 125 that should have been in the box and I should be good.

    I donít have any real riding impressions yet. I have an indoor pumptrack in my workshop, but itís not the same as mountain biking. I will say the bike felt a bit weird at first but after a while riding it and then taking a lap on my primary bike, my primary bike felt weird. The main difference being the slack steering angle. The DVO suspension is smooth like hot butter on a biscuit. Canít wait to get out for a real ride, which around here is probably a month awayÖ. But who knows, there is extra snow and extra cold this year.

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-img_6075.jpgNew innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-img_6069.jpgNew innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-img_6072.jpg

  61. #1761
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    A word on Droppers

    It was Gunnar that first pointed out the need for more insertion and shorter insertion droppers. Like the Bike Yoke.

    Below is a picture of 125 mm droppers from DVO, Xfusion and Bike Yoke.

    The length difference is obvious. But what isn't, is the fact that the DVO doesn't retract as far, leaving some exposed shaft in the full "down" position. So the top of the ST to saddle rail distance is the longest, at about 200 mm, compared to 180 and 130 for the XF and BY. These are all in a size S frame, inserted all the way.

    In fact, you could run a 185 mm Bike Yoke and still have a lower collapsed saddle height than a 125 mm DVO

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-dropper-comparo-s-frame.jpg

  62. #1762
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    Bikeyoke 125 fits mine just right, I am on a meltdown small, and 5'8", 30 inch inseam, and set my MTB saddle height at my roadie road ride length which is ~27 inches from center of BB to grundle.

    [had to move the DVO 125 to my fatbike, which fits great.]
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  63. #1763
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    Ok getting ready to order all parts I need to make this build happen... however a question I feel has already been answered but after much time searching and flicking through this sizable thread ... what are people's thoughts / recommendations regarding crank arm length? I have a recollection of pedal strikes being mentioned but something to do with shock setup?? I'm thinking go with standard 175 as the whole point of this new design is it sits up and would raise the BB under pedalling...

  64. #1764
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Ok getting ready to order all parts I need to make this build happen... however a question I feel has already been answered but after much time searching and flicking through this sizable thread ... what are people's thoughts / recommendations regarding crank arm length? I have a recollection of pedal strikes being mentioned but something to do with shock setup?? I'm thinking go with standard 175 as the whole point of this new design is it sits up and would raise the BB under pedalling...
    just go 175
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  65. #1765
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    just go 175
    Pedal strikes are essentially eliminated with this design, unless your very careless.

  66. #1766
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    just go 175
    Cool thanks guys - thought must be obvious but always best to check and look a little daft, than not check and look a lot daft

  67. #1767
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    once you start climbing chunky crud with this thing...you'll start pointing it
    straight through a lot of crap you used to pick your way through. it's like cheating
    (or realizing all previous bikes were cheating YOU)

    it won't magically erase the trail, but new, weird lines will be 'good decisions' vs 'DOH!'
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  68. #1768
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    Quote Originally Posted by KONK211 View Post
    Pedal strikes are essentially eliminated with this design, unless your very careless.
    Dito. I was initially having a few more strikes then i normally have on my Abracadabra.. wich have been very few and mostly careless since Magic link also keeps the rear up under power in smooth terrain. However not close to as efficiently with only about 1/3 of the travel compared to the whole travel being back used for geometry adjustment on the Missing link.
    After setting up the piggyback to correct psi I have no issue at all except when this confidence boosting bike makes me do overly stupid careless things!

    Sent fra min Moto G (5) Plus via Tapatalk
    Last edited by Gunnar Westholm; 02-22-2018 at 10:51 PM.

  69. #1769
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Ok getting ready to order all parts I need to make this build happen... however a question I feel has already been answered but after much time searching and flicking through this sizable thread ... what are people's thoughts / recommendations regarding crank arm length? I have a recollection of pedal strikes being mentioned but something to do with shock setup?? I'm thinking go with standard 175 as the whole point of this new design is it sits up and would raise the BB under pedalling...
    My 29er has a static BB height of 360mm so pedal strike is not a problem. Getting a leg over the bugger presents issues though, saddle is 1220mm off the deck!

  70. #1770
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    >2x: I really like a 2x drivetrain and was happy

    Based on the prototype I had this vision that it was going to DM to the linkage itself so now I'm confused.
    Flow Chaser (and Brian) were you using a high clamp style FD ?
    Flow Chaser what type and model did you try ? Was it s side swing ? Were you trying it with a boost or standard crankset ?

    Everything arrived and looks good thanks Brian. I was pleasantly surprised that the finish was glossy black with some speckles, I was anticipating matte black but after seeing all the fancy powder jobs I was having shiny object envy.

  71. #1771
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    DSC06410a by ctbtyper, on Flickr
    I guess I never gave details on my build. Nothing special, and my goal was to try Brian's bike as economically as possible. Many of my parts were from my parts stash, but then some needed upgrading (like the crankset).

    It's just:

    Shimano 10-sp driveline, incl BB
    11-42 Sunrace cassette
    One-Up RAD-Caged XT rear D
    XT crankset
    2014 Interbike special color Crank Bros Candy pedals
    30T Absolute Black oval chainring
    KMC chain
    Some old Avid Elixir CR's that I had purchased ages ago knowing that I'd use them someday (I have these on all my bikes - makes it easy).
    Bontrager Big Sweep bars (690mm, 17-deg sweep)
    Some sort of stem...it's a Thomson, but without looking at it, I'm not positive of the length. I think it's an 80mm. I had two stems laying around, and this one made the fit match my other bike.
    Reynolds R29AM wheelset - seems really nice for the low price
    Conti Trail King front and RaceKing RaceSport rear; not tubeless yet, but they will be eventually.
    Uno seat post, which I think looks pretty nice for the money
    WTB Speed Progel saddle
    Ergon GP5-L Biokork grips
    Manitou Minute Pro 140mm fork, non-boost. Uses the ABS+ damper, so I have a full tuning kit for it, if needed.
    And of course the BB-tuned Topaz.

    Ends up at 29.98 lb. I'll call it 30 even. Surprisingly light to me - it matches the weight of my 26er that I normally ride, and I didn't try at all to save weight. A weight weenie could easily get this thing under 28, I think.

    EDIT: Did a "final" weigh today since I finished putting on the protective tape for cable rubs, etc. 30.5 lb appears to be my as-built weight, at least at this point. I may try a different saddle, I may go tubeless, etc., which will change it a bit, but I think this is pretty close to what it will always be.
    Last edited by CTB; 02-24-2018 at 02:37 PM.

  72. #1772
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    Based on the prototype I had this vision that it was going to DM to the linkage itself so now I'm confused.
    Flow Chaser (and Brian) were you using a high clamp style FD ?
    Flow Chaser what type and model did you try ? Was it s side swing ? Were you trying it with a boost or standard crankset ?
    Glad you are trying to get the front derailleur working. I put in a solid effort but was unsuccessful. Iíll share all my notes with you in hopes it helps.

    It boils down to three issues: Cable routing, clamp, alignment/conflict with the link, with that last one being the deal breaker.

    Cable routing:
    Ideally, it would route from the bottom so you can take advantage of the internal cable routing and out the bottom of the bottom bracket. First, there were no braise-ons to hold the end of the cable. I was looking at attaching something to the ISCG tab, but that didnít seem to line up right. I forget exactly now, but I think the threads didnít go far enough through. I guess I could have tapped it out all the way, but even then, the location probably wasnít going to work. The way the two links line up there, the cable running from the bottom of the bottom bracket to the derailleur would be displaced as the suspension went through its travel - and it would scratch the paint. So then I looked at routing from the top. Not as ideal from an aesthetic standpoint, but I feel it would have worked. Attaching to the top of brake line and then to the seat tube and down. It would be possible to rig up a bracket here that could house the end of the cable. I ended up finding a derailleur that had an integrated cable end ferrule that allowed more flexibility. Again, if the cable had a stop higher up and ran bare (without housing) it likely would have rubbed on links somewhere along the way. The housing probably could have been run in such a way that nothing got damaged, but I didnít finish the routing.

    Clamp:
    The first derailleur I was using had an integrated clamp (XT M786) and this sat low on the seat tube. It conflicted with the missing link in full extension, but I feel you could have ground away some of the clamp and made it fit (maybe). The issue that had me move on was no integrated cable stop. The second derailleur I used (integrated cable stop Deore M618) had a separate clamp that mounted higher and it would have cleared the missing link.

    Alignment/Conflict:
    The second derailleur I was able to attach to the clamp on the seat tube and get right in place to the point of running a chain. But it would not go low enough to run on the small chainring without contacting the suspension link. I could run it a bit high (vertically) to partially clear the link (would bump under compression) but then the chain was too high, always running on the derailleur. This was the real end for me when I couldnít get the derailleur to actually go through its travel and carry the chain correctly. And it was the suspension linkage - not something I could shave or move.

    Crankset was a standard Shimano XT double.

    So there you have it. Good luck and keep us posted.

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-img_6103.jpgNew innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-img_6104.jpg

  73. #1773
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    Okay just to be clear both of these FD's had a clamp that went around the seat tube right ? I'm confused because that first FD you picture looks like a direct mount - was there some clamp adapter it attached to ? I notice the newest Shimano DI2 electronic FD's have one form factor and then you can buy 4 different mounts (hi clamp, low clamp, Direct Mount, or E-type (which is really an E2 type), but the mechanical ones seem to only come in fully fledged individual versions withe the clamps included.

    I guess what I'm trying to get at is if I should order the "low clamp" or "high clamp" versions. Based on this sentence "had a separate clamp that mounted higher and it would have cleared the missing link. " and the pictures I am looking at on Universal Cycles I should order the high clamp (https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...p?category=691). This whole time I had planned on jsut trying my DM FD from my current bike so this has thrown me off a bit and I won't be able to order and receive something to try until next week.But I can at least mock up my cranks now that I have the bike.

    Also as mentioned above the key here will be the side swing FD - it doesn't need any cable stops or guides at all, and the cable comes in from the front where there will be no interference.

    That doesn't solve your issue of having enough clearance to swing the chain though, that's why I was wondering if a boost offset would help, although for all the gnashing of teeth boost is only 3mm which is barely 1/8". Although both of the FD's you listed are for 10 speed, maybe an 11 speed will help as well.

  74. #1774
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    Okay just to be clear both of these FD's had a clamp that went around the seat tube right ?

    I guess what I'm trying to get at is if I should order the "low clamp" or "high clamp" versions.

    Also as mentioned above the key here will be the side swing FD - it doesn't need any cable stops or guides at all, and the cable comes in from the front where there will be no interference.

    That doesn't solve your issue of having enough clearance to swing the chain though, that's why I was wondering if a boost offset would help, although for all the gnashing of teeth boost is only 3mm which is barely 1/8". Although both of the FD's you listed are for 10 speed, maybe an 11 speed will help as well.
    Yes. both clamped to the seat tube.

    The one without the clamp attaches to a 'problem solver' see link.
    Problem Solvers F. Derailleur Adapter | Jenson USA

    You want as high as you can go.

    Maybe a boost crank would work. It was probably about 3-4mm too close.

  75. #1775
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    Hey guys!

    Some progress pics - have almost got everything I need and 'need' on order now ... and the first part of the puzzle arrived today.. a nice gold headset from Superstar Components

    Lovely evening sun on a rough assembly of parts to get a feel for what I'm working with - even discovered the post from my HT fitted so I could try sitting on the bike

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180224_165343.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-20180224_165539.jpg

    Trying to figure out dropper length (last of the parts I need)

    So I am measuring approx 680mm from centre BB to saddle rails at full riding height on my current bike... The Medium Tantrum is around 440mm from centre BB to top seat collar once you fix a seat clamp ... leaving me 240mm maximum I can have sticking out of the bike and still be able to ride the thing ... so with max insertion being 150 I guess I'm looking for a dropper with overall length 390...?

    Looks like the 9point8 Fall Line as I've already been using ... in fact the exact post I already have ... apart from seatpost dia being a few mm out ... would have fit perfect!! haha ...

    So far looking at options:
    KS LEV Integra £199.99
    Race Face Turbine £255.99
    BikeYoke Revive £299
    9point8 Fall line £379

    Far as I can tell all these are actuated via a cable unlike Reverb etc - I much prefer a nice simple cable to deal with

    Once that's sorted I just have to sort out which of the parts I 'need' to order ... such as some Kash Money Atlas bars

  76. #1776
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flow Chaser View Post
    I ended up OneUpíing my drivetrain which had the same green as the DVO accents, which worked out ok aesthetically, I hope you will agree .
    I noticed this immediately. I like the look.

  77. #1777
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post

    So far looking at options:
    KS LEV Integra £199.99
    Race Face Turbine £255.99
    BikeYoke Revive £299
    9point8 Fall line £379

    Far as I can tell all these are actuated via a cable unlike Reverb etc - I much prefer a nice simple cable to deal with
    My turbine is an OK post, but I've had better luck with my KS Levs and Giant Switches.

    My biggest grievance is that it's very sensitive to cable adjustment, a little off and you'll get a pogostick that won't lock or won't open. Got to assume that the 9.8 would be affected by this aswell since it's roughly the same operation. It would have been alot easier if the setscrew for the cable was at the lever end and not the bottom of the seatpost.

    When my RF fails I'll be going back to Levs. If price is an issue Shimanos Pro lineup has a dropper.

  78. #1778
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    How do you guys feel the pop on the bike is?

    While I know you want a responsive suspension, is there enough support to pop off roots or rocks in the trail?
    Last edited by TwoTone; 02-25-2018 at 06:38 AM.
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  79. #1779
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    Thanks Vegard The Lev gets a lot of positive rep for a fairly budget post ... I have loved my 9.8 so far - but at around half the price saving me £180 the Lev is worth seriously considering! Aha and thanks for reminding me about Shimano's dropper... sadly on checking it's 10mm too long for my fit... unless I've miscalculated!

    TwoTone - exactly what I'm wanting from the bike as well so while I can't promise a review particularly soon I'll be testing it's pop-ibility for sure...

  80. #1780
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    Here's an interesting picture. I've superimposed side views of my Outburst and my Tracer together. Remarkably similar, considering the big differences - 26 v 29, etc. I essentially lined up the seat posts to see what would shake out.

    Tracer v Outburst by ctbtyper, on Flickr

  81. #1781
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    Heheh that's cool CTB

    Any of you guys that own a BikeYoke - can you lift the bike by the seat while dropped? I like this about my 9.8 as is less to worry about... while it is a bit more expensive I'm leaning towards the BY Revive as I just dig the idea behind what they're doing - fixing problems not just churning out stuff. Also if I order one with the I spec compatibility etc do I still get the standard clamp as backup?

  82. #1782
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    Some observations building a Shining 29'er. I rode it up and down the block a bit but the steer tube on my old fork isn't long enough so th stem is only held on by half the clamp so I can't ride it safely.

    1) I spent several hours on fitting a FD. I used a standalone tube clamp as posted above and a direct mount 11 speed side swing FD. This allowed me the maximum freedom of movement. Sorry to say for all my bragging about the side swing FD it has a fair bit of mass on the front of it that either wants to interfere with the suspension linkage or starts to hit the crank arm if you rotate it. I managed to mount it somewhat properly and get it to swing back and forth and support either chainring, but I could not get it to shift between both gears. Either I could get it to downshift only or upshift only and trying to find better placement wasn't possible as there was interference everywhere. The only way I could see it working would be to push the FD body outwards to clear the linkage. Obviously this would also push the crank arm and chainring outboard too, which was detrimental to chainline as the big ring was already running at 54mm which was very outboard even with the boost setup in the rear. I don't think its possible to get it to work. I'm not saying its impossible, but its definitely not practical. Disappointed, but any new bike I was going to buy would have the same issue. This is what I always dreaded when 1* got popular, that one day the choice would be taken away from us. Much the same way its getting hard and harder to manage without a smart phone.


    2) Brian sent me a 142 and a 148 axle. The 142 non-boost setup works. However using standard cranks with a ~50mm chainline, I thought everything lined up much better after I put a boost kit on my hub and used the longer axle. I did not have to dish my wheel, it was actually left biased before and centered after putting on the boost kit. I highly recommend running boost hubs or adapters as it just seems to fit on the bike better. A boost crankset is not necessary and in fact would be detrimental to overall chainline IMO.

    3) I haven't taken apart the shock yet - how many volume bands are people finding in there ? Are people who want to add tuning bands just buying the $8 (+s&sh) tuning kit from DVO ? You would think they'd just throw a few extras in the box.

    4) The headset I think is a ZS44/28.6/zs56/40. I'd like to try an angleset at some point, but the only thing listed is ZS44/28.6/ZS56/30. I wonder if thats because only a 30mm steer tube has the room to move in the angleset ? Of course I am hoping Cane Creek just isn't listing all the part #'s. Does anyone have a good idea on whether an Angleset could work with this frame (Brian) ??

    5) I measured the BB height as 14.375" (365mm). This seems awfully high, like almost an inch too high. Brian were there actually 2 part numbers for the rear dropouts (for 27 and 29") ? Would it be possible to create dropouts with more "drop" ? I wouldn't mind paying the low volume cost for them if you were willing to draw them up and submit them to emachine. Related question can I buy spare dropouts ? I'm used to having a backup in case the derailleur hangar gets damaged. As it is I'm considering putting a 27.5" wheel back there which will get the BB height just right at the cost of further slackening the bike.

  83. #1783
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegard View Post
    It would have been alot easier if the setscrew for the cable was at the lever end and not the bottom of the seatpost.
    That ^^ is how my 9.8 dropper is setup. Works great and easy to adjust. I've got the Digit remote.
    Safe riding,

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  84. #1784
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Heheh that's cool CTB

    Any of you guys that own a BikeYoke - can you lift the bike by the seat while dropped? I like this about my 9.8 as is less to worry about... while it is a bit more expensive I'm leaning towards the BY Revive as I just dig the idea behind what they're doing - fixing problems not just churning out stuff. Also if I order one with the I spec compatibility etc do I still get the standard clamp as backup?
    Yes, my 160mm bikeyoke supports the weight of the bike with a good margin. I can only make it move up of I hold the bike down.
    The deal-maker's for me was that no other post on the market got 160mm travel with such a low insertion length and stack high. (Correct me if I have missed some!)
    Probably repeating myself on this... Also the shape of the remote lever feels alot better to me then the ambidextrous style KS remotes. Even better then the remote on the we'll reviewed Fox Transfer wich I was riding a few months before receiving my BY.
    Super smooth action..

    Sent fra min Moto G (5) Plus via Tapatalk

  85. #1785
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Westholm View Post
    Yes, my 160mm bikeyoke supports the weight of the bike with a good margin. I can only make it move up of I hold the bike down.
    The deal-maker's for me was that no other post on the market got 160mm travel with such a low insertion length and stack high. (Correct me if I have missed some!)
    Probably repeating myself on this... Also the shape of the remote lever feels alot better to me then the ambidextrous style KS remotes. Even better then the remote on the we'll reviewed Fox Transfer wich I was riding a few months before receiving my BY.
    Super smooth action..
    Awesome thanks Gunnar - I'd love to have gone for the 160 but the measurements seemed to indicate even with the Revive's petite size it would end up being too long for my setup despite my fairly long inseam and medium frame ... not keen on things being crammed so have gone for the 125mm - should arrive tomorrow! ... most of my drivetrain has arrived today so that will mean I can thread all internal cables and get the BB/cranks fitted :P

    Edit!! Glad I popped down to the shed to check on a BB tool and just happened to think 'I'll just double check the ride height... for that post' eh I seem to have miscalculated by 40mm! ... a quick call to TFTuned later and I now have a 160mm arriving tomorrow! Moral of the story ... always double - double check as one double check might not be enough
    Last edited by ArtyGreg; 02-26-2018 at 06:53 AM.

  86. #1786
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    Hey Preston67,

    #3- I have taken shock apart and to my amazement there her 5 bands in there?
    I was bottoming a bit on big G outs, looking for more progressive set up I actually took 2 bands out. I bumped up the air can pressure to support at sag 30-35%. It corrected the issue I was dealing with.
    I like to keep my setups active, do to the rocky terrain I ride on. You just don't loose your pedaling platform on this bike compared to others with some additional sag. which brings us to

    #5 I'm measuring 13 7/8" BB on a Shining with 27.5 Plus tires, so your measurement sounds about right. I would put some miles on the bike before you get overly concerned about the BB number, why? It's just a number your used to looking at, this bike sags perhaps a little bit more than your used to. Because of that, it still RIPS in the turning department! But, when your on the Power the BB will lift and will pedal though all kinds of SHIT you never dreamed of, and you will appreciate the added clearance.

    This bike is rewriting some of the RULES we have all been following for awhile!
    At least for me it has. Konk

    Oh, #4 Dont do it till you have some miles on it, again you may think differently after some seat time!

  87. #1787
    keo
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    Preston,

    Five bands in the positive side is what mine came with, I ordered the DVO kit so I can experiment later. I think the Topaz ships with 5 bands included, which is likely why there were no extras.

    I think Brian is running a angleset on his 29/27.5 bike. I was wondering about the right headset and had seen his photos with an external bottom cup but he said that was due to him using a angleset.

    Konk,

    I am confused, I thought smaller positive chamber (more bands) equaled more progressiveness. But maybe with such a small positive chamber the larger negative chamber was resulting in lower than idea pressure to hit the correct sag. Brian has suggested adding a band to the positive and negative chamber (6/1), I am going to give that a shot when I can see dirt again.

  88. #1788
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    keo,

    I had tried upping the pressure before removing the 2 bands, but I lost some of the small bump sensitivity. I feel by removing 2 bands and increasing the volume and pressure it's created more ramp up in pressure towards the end stoke. Perhaps 1 negative band would do the same thing, I just just did't have the extra band to try it, so I chose what option I had and it worked well for me.

  89. #1789
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Awesome thanks Gunnar - I'd love to have gone for the 160 but the measurements seemed to indicate even with the Revive's petite size it would end up being too long for my setup despite my fairly long inseam and medium frame ... not keen on things being crammed so have gone for the 125mm - should arrive tomorrow! ... most of my drivetrain has arrived today so that will mean I can thread all internal cables and get the BB/cranks fitted

    Edit!! Glad I popped down to the shed to check on a BB tool and just happened to think 'I'll just double check the ride height... for that post' eh I seem to have miscalculated by 40mm! ... a quick call to TFTuned later and I now have a 160mm arriving tomorrow! Moral of the story ... always double - double check as one double check might not be enough
    Hahaha I'm glad you did not trust yourself!! :-D I'm still trying to learn that from time to time. This bike really deserves all dropper post travel that fits to match what it can handle! both up'n down!

    Sent fra min Moto G (5) Plus via Tapatalk

  90. #1790
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    How do you guys feel the pop on the bike is?

    While I know you want a responsive suspension, is there enough support to pop off roots or rocks in the trail?
    Hey guys. Guys that speak in "pop". How is the bike for pop? i have my own secret opinion, but this doesn't get mentioned much in reviews.....any comments???

  91. #1791
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    Here's an interesting picture. I've superimposed side views of my Outburst and my Tracer together. Remarkably similar, considering the big differences - 26 v 29, etc. I essentially lined up the seat posts to see what would shake out.

    Tracer v Outburst by ctbtyper, on Flickr
    Watch that shite. The internet engineers will make something bad happen. Who knows what!?!?!?

  92. #1792
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    Quote Originally Posted by KONK211 View Post
    keo,

    I had tried upping the pressure before removing the 2 bands, but I lost some of the small bump sensitivity. I feel by removing 2 bands and increasing the volume and pressure it's created more ramp up in pressure towards the end stoke. Perhaps 1 negative band would do the same thing, I just just did't have the extra band to try it, so I chose what option I had and it worked well for me.
    I've found small bump sensitivity disappearing with small increases in shock pressure. I initially ran 210psi to get 30% sag and found it super plush but with lots of pedal bob and none of the geo change I had been expecting. Upping the shock to 220psi loses the sensitivity but improves the pedalling.

    About that geo change, are people noticing the shock extending out past sag under hard pedalling? My understanding, which might be wrong of course, is that to steepen the angles this has to happen. My shock never extends past sag while riding so it must be sitting at about 64.5 degrees head angle the whole time, as static angle is 66. I am quite prepared to concede this might be setup all wrong, but if so I could really use some advice from you guys.
    My set up at the moment is:
    Weight 100Kg
    Positive pressure 215psi
    Bladder 200psi
    2 spacers positive side of can

  93. #1793
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post

    1)The only way I could see it working would be to push the FD body outwards to clear the linkage. Obviously this would also push the crank arm and chainring outboard too, which was detrimental to chainline as the big ring was already running at 54mm which was very outboard even with the boost setup in the rear. This is what I always dreaded when 1* got popular, that one day the choice would be taken away from us.

    3) I haven't taken apart the shock yet - how many volume bands are people finding in there ? Are people who want to add tuning bands just buying the $8 (+s&sh) tuning kit from DVO ? You would think they'd just throw a few extras in the box.

    4) The headset I think is a ZS44/28.6/zs56/40. I'd like to try an angleset at some point, but the only thing listed is ZS44/28.6/ZS56/30. I wonder if thats because only a 30mm steer tube has the room to move in the angleset ? Of course I am hoping Cane Creek just isn't listing all the part #'s. Does anyone have a good idea on whether an Angleset could work with this frame (Brian) ??

    5) I measured the BB height as 14.375" (365mm). This seems awfully high, like almost an inch too high. Brian were there actually 2 part numbers for the rear dropouts (for 27 and 29") ? Would it be possible to create dropouts with more "drop" ? I wouldn't mind paying the low volume cost for them if you were willing to draw them up and submit them to emachine. Related question can I buy spare dropouts ? I'm used to having a backup in case the derailleur hangar gets damaged. As it is I'm considering putting a 27.5" wheel back there which will get the BB height just right at the cost of further slackening the bike.
    Ok, I edited some of your comments and questions to make it more clear, hopefully.

    #1) A boost 1x crank is a 53 mm chainline. I would think an ideal 2x chainline would have the big ring out at 54-56 mm.

    I haven't given up on it yet, see if I can improve things for next run, even though it would be REALLY nice not to deal with. I want the flexibility. For now.

    3) The shocks come with 5 bands. All shocks have them installed in the pos chamber. I have mentioned before that I am depending on the air spring's natural, beautiful rising rate. However, most modern air shock have increased the pos can way too much (why people report having to run 300 psi on an X2)

    more on this later

    4) headset, another standards/compatibility nightmare. I picked the ZS 44/ZS56 because it had the most flexibility. Part of this relates to being able to use an angleset with +/- 1.5 degrees of change. BUT, the catch is, that headset is only available as an EC44/EC56.

    It adds to the stack, but just another variable to consider. at least it can be done.

    You mention in #5 worrying about further slackening the bike. if anything, this version could use that. It can be slacker.

    More on this later

    #5) You're making me work here. I agree that the BB, in pure 29er config, is too high. The 29er dropouts were also configured to work with 27.5 plus tires, the diameter of which varies considerably.

    The geo works out better for something like a 29 x 2.8 fr/27.5 x 2.8 in the rear.

    Bottom line, tire size alone makes geo an incredible moving target. These dropouts were originally intended for the shorter travel Outburst, which would also steepen the geo for the more XC applications of that bike.

    I do have another set of dropouts drawn up. Lengthen the CS and lower the BB. why lengthen the CS? That monster truck 29" wheel has to go somewhere at full travel. i chose shorter CS/higher BB for the first compromise, for the reasons listed. But I feel the full on 29er fr/rr could benefit from a lower BB/slacker rake/longer CS set of dropouts.

  94. #1794
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mashlings View Post
    I've found small bump sensitivity disappearing with small increases in shock pressure. I initially ran 210psi to get 30% sag and found it super plush but with lots of pedal bob and none of the geo change I had been expecting. Upping the shock to 220psi loses the sensitivity but improves the pedalling.

    About that geo change, are people noticing the shock extending out past sag under hard pedalling? My understanding, which might be wrong of course, is that to steepen the angles this has to happen. My shock never extends past sag while riding so it must be sitting at about 64.5 degrees head angle the whole time, as static angle is 66. I am quite prepared to concede this might be setup all wrong, but if so I could really use some advice from you guys.
    My set up at the moment is:
    Weight 100Kg
    Positive pressure 215psi
    Bladder 200psi
    2 spacers positive side of can
    Mashling,

    I think your on the right track, this bikes likes the 30% sag number.
    I'm 200lbs. running 200psi can and 200 bladder. so I think your setup should be close.
    The linkage has an initial falling rate. It would take Huge psi to keep this bike up at even 15%.
    I think where your missing the point is in thinking that "pedal bob" is a Bad thing on this bike. so your trying to tune it out with more psi because thats what your used to doing.

    This linkage is a "Reverse bob", meaning when your applying torque to the pedals the bike is actually lifting with every pedal stroke and not collapsing, as with almost all other designs. The "bob" takes place in between pedal stokes when there is little torque on the pedals and it settles back down towards sag. Easy to parking lot test, cruse in a middle gear then apply greater torque and watch the sag lift up.
    That lifting with every pedal stoke is what makes this bike so efficient!!!

    Geo,
    As Brian has explained before, you can not sustain enough pedal torque on flat ground to keep the shock extended for the geo change. it will only take place on steep climbs where torque levels have increased to support it. You will not feel it lift but, it is there when you need it most, climbing.
    I ride a lot of punchy climbs, so it's always in play. If your terrian is on the flatter side you may not have the same experience.
    Hope this helps, Konk

  95. #1795
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    If anyone is looking for a headset, I have an Extralite one I originally ordered for my Tantrum. One of the lightest you can buy.

    https://www.extralite.com/Products/UltraTop-Bottom.htm
    OG Ripley v2
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  96. #1796
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    Quote Originally Posted by KONK211 View Post
    Mashling,

    I think your on the right track, this bikes likes the 30% sag number.
    I'm 200lbs. running 200psi can and 200 bladder. so I think your setup should be close.
    The linkage has an initial falling rate. It would take Huge psi to keep this bike up at even 15%.
    I think where your missing the point is in thinking that "pedal bob" is a Bad thing on this bike. so your trying to tune it out with more psi because thats what your used to doing.

    This linkage is a "Reverse bob", meaning when your applying torque to the pedals the bike is actually lifting with every pedal stroke and not collapsing, as with almost all other designs. The "bob" takes place in between pedal stokes when there is little torque on the pedals and it settles back down towards sag. Easy to parking lot test, cruse in a middle gear then apply greater torque and watch the sag lift up.
    That lifting with every pedal stoke is what makes this bike so efficient!!!

    Geo,
    As Brian has explained before, you can not sustain enough pedal torque on flat ground to keep the shock extended for the geo change. it will only take place on steep climbs where torque levels have increased to support it. You will not feel it lift but, it is there when you need it most, climbing.
    I ride a lot of punchy climbs, so it's always in play. If your terrian is on the flatter side you may not have the same experience.
    Hope this helps, Konk
    Yeah, the pedal bob really doesn't concern me, I have noticed it when cruising around but it goes away as the terrain steepens just as it should. I'm just not sure the shock extends as much as the theory proscribes, and until I find out how far it should extend I'm groping in the dark. Perhaps Brian can comment?
    Terrain here is short and punchy too, lots of steep technical ups and downs. My sense is that this thing does pedal well for its travel but I'm finding the extra weight and big wheels noticeable. Please no-one say the weight doesn't matter-it really, really does!

  97. #1797
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    Pedal bob is a bad description of what the bike is doing...

    Mashlings, were you coming off a hard tail?

  98. #1798
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    Pedal bob is a bad description of what the bike is doing...

    Mashlings, were you coming off a hard tail?
    What would you call it? And yes, but I'm not stupid enough to compare the two directly. Nothing pedals like a hardtail ; )

  99. #1799
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    For the record Guys, I'm not a great lover of Kool Aid but I am here, invested in this thing and I don't regret that one bit. I'm learning a great deal from this process and relishing the opportunity. I think the reaction of riders to this bike will inevitably depend on their previous riding experience; I'm coming from XC duallys and, for the last year a modern trail geo steel hardtail, but if I was coming off a enduro rig I'd be having a completely different experience. I wanted this bike because I feel my riding has progressed beyond what my old Pivot Mach 4, maybe even my hardtail, can do and I don't want to compromise the uphill performance more than I have to.

    What most concerns me is that this bike does what it says on the label and right now there are more questions than answers in my mind. Does the geo change or not? Does it pedal better than other 140mm trail bikes like my friend's Trance? Hmmm, not sure. Is it the right bike for me? Don't know. Is anyone paying attention to what that shock is doing? Maybe. Lets have a bit more analysis, can't hurt, right?

  100. #1800
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mashlings View Post
    What would you call it? And yes, but I'm not stupid enough to compare the two directly. Nothing pedals like a hardtail ; )
    Not sure what to call it, but the pedal bob most people know is the bike sinking into travel with each pedal stroke. Guess I'd call it "topping" or something...

    I bring up the HT thing because I found it odd that you don't feel the ST angle changing on steep climbs. Perhaps there's so much going with the back wheel movement that it's lost on you right now?

    I didn't notice any crazy steering change... I did notice on steep climbs was that instead of creeping up the nose of the seat to get weight forward etc (current/most bikes), the saddle made a natural, subtle shift forward keeping a comfortable relation to crankset and subsequent less laboring. What it did was no less then amazing though... that's aside from benefits in other situations

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