Page 14 of 14 FirstFirst ... 41011121314
Results 1,301 to 1,396 of 1396
  1. #1301
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    6,983
    Quote Originally Posted by alexdi View Post
    I can tell you exactly: not very.

    The frame weight for M is ~3550g with shock. That's about 1000g above a typical carbon trail frame (though not all of them; Spot's Mayhem is only ~500g lighter), 1400g over typical carbon XC, and 1800g over the lightest XC frames available. Obviously all of these bikes are shorter travel and radically less capable.

    I've got a build list for a light-ish Tantrum 29er. XX1 11-speed, 30i carbon wheels, 2.3 tires, dropper, carbon kit, trail brakes, Fox 34 fork. It's coming in a little under 28 lbs with pedals and sealant. You could shave another pound with XC-level kit (brakes, rotors, lighter dropper, thinner wheels) and two more with a 32 fork and skinny tires, but I don't think that squares with the bike's purpose.
    Why would you even bother mentioning the weight of XC frames? Sorry but that's stupid. At least pick a carbon frame with the same travel because the layup is going to be very different and affect the weight.

    Take the Evil Wrekoning is 2790g without shock.

    Not sure where you've been but a bunch of the new long travel carbon 29er are coming in at 28-29 lbs.

    The HT LT CC build Vital reviewed says the bikes weigh anywhere from 28.3 to 29.3-pounds and cost $3,949 to $9,299 USD. So 9k gets you a 28lb carbon long travel bike.

    Honestly think you're way off in saying the Tantrum can't be built light. It can be as light as it's competitors.
    OG Ripley v2
    Carver 420 TI

  2. #1302
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    1,053
    We were taking about this in a LBS today. Some bikes are significantly less rideable today without a dropper due to the overly slack seat angles making it hard to have enough room to maneuver with the seat up and in the way.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  3. #1303
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    I have this strange feeling that I'll want to modularize my Outburst up to 160mm someday...we'll see, as the trails here don't really NEED 160. But I've been riding a bike with 5.5" for a while now, and it's kinda nice.

    Any word on what the head angle of a 29er Outburst @125mm ended up being?
    that's the conundrum. In Indiana, 160 mm is overkill. It's still my choice, partly because I choose to tried the roughest trails around and can at least use the suspension sometime. But I recently road one of the XC loops and I just felt like I was pedaling around on a DH bike.

    But it wasn't the travel, it was the 30 lb all mountain weight with fast sticky, slow rolling rubber. I could take 2 pounds off the wheel/tires alone.

    For now, I'll choose to keep the bike at 30 lbs and pound the harder trails, even though I'd still be faster on a lighter bike. It's just more fun

  4. #1304
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by welf View Post
    That would be me! Looking forward to receiving, slowly stocking up the pile of parts needed to build it.

    Brian - was there any progress with 142 dropouts, or do I need to find a way to boostinate? If it's 142 then should I assume standard cranks?
    The word "tomorrow" always need time/space continuum considerations.....

    I assembled your frame with a NON boost crank and was fine with a 32 T ring.

    More BB/crank findings later, but for now:

    I disassembled the frame a little for the New Zealand shipment. But it should be there Wed.
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-shipping-jw-0.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-shipping-jw1.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-shipping-jw2.jpg
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-shipping-jw3.jpg

  5. #1305
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    337
    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Why would you even bother mentioning the weight of XC frames? Sorry but that's stupid. At least pick a carbon frame with the same travel because the layup is going to be very different and affect the weight.

    Take the Evil Wrekoning is 2790g without shock.

    Not sure where you've been but a bunch of the new long travel carbon 29er are coming in at 28-29 lbs.

    The HT LT CC build Vital reviewed says the bikes weigh anywhere from 28.3 to 29.3-pounds and cost $3,949 to $9,299 USD. So 9k gets you a 28lb carbon long travel bike.

    Honestly think you're way off in saying the Tantrum can't be built light. It can be as light as it's competitors.
    Why the belligerence? The person I responded to wanted to take it XC racing, so I included XC frame weights.

    There's no point comparing completed weight across models. Too much variability in the build kit, even down to things like sealant. The bike will build exactly as light as a ~3500g frame and shock weight allow it to be built. If that's competitive for you, then great.

  6. #1306
    Armature speller
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    2,421
    A 120mm travel version for XC would be cool.
    At 100mm I have the feeling the rear would be greatly out performing the front.

  7. #1307
    WillWorkForTrail
    Reputation: Cotharyus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    3,790
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    you know, it's just like when you rode the bike the first time. You can't really understand it until you ride it. I didn't get the benefit of the longer travel 29er until I cobbled up a 160 version last year. The BB was too high, CS too long, because I made it out of spare parts.

    but it was immediately apparent that, besides being a monster truck over rough, it climbed better than the 125 mm travel version I made it out of.

    And it took me a sec to logic it all out. The only climbing disadvantage of more rear travel (other than weight), is the mushy bad geometry. And not only have I eliminated that but IMPROVED it over the shorter travel version.

    I'd like to make a freaky light XC version with 150 mm rear travel and 100 mm fr (or whatever). Super max geo change climbing monster.
    Well crap. I suppose I just need to collect all my crap, figure out when I can get my hands on one, and send you some money. Because honestly, I've been offered some stupid good deals on other bikes since I rode yours, but I simply couldn't bring myself to try to pay for mediocrity. You've ruined me, you wretched engineer. Thanks.

  8. #1308
    because GIANT
    Reputation: 127.0.0.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2,758
    once you go Tant'
    go back you can't
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  9. #1309
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    once you go Tant'
    go back you can't
    check's in the mail.....

  10. #1310
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    Well crap. I suppose I just need to collect all my crap, figure out when I can get my hands on one, and send you some money. Because honestly, I've been offered some stupid good deals on other bikes since I rode yours, but I simply couldn't bring myself to try to pay for mediocrity. You've ruined me, you wretched engineer. Thanks.
    I wonder if there will be an L laying around here after the dust clears......

    or the 500mm reach on the upcoming (rumoured) XL?

    Hey, after hanging out with some of the internet engineers discussing my suspension (not you), can I just be called an artist instead? Wait, is that more pretentious or less?

  11. #1311
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    A 120mm travel version for XC would be cool.
    At 100mm I have the feeling the rear would be greatly out performing the front.
    The problem is always going to be that the rear is going to outperform the front (at least until I resurrect my fork).

    That's what drove me to the 160 mm 29er front, coupled with 160 27.5 rear.

    160 27.5 front wasn't good enough
    170 27.5 fr wasn't good enough
    160 29 front, now almost as good as the rear

    My next move is 170 mm 29er fr with 160 27.5 rear. But then, I,m gonna want to do 180 mm rear.....

    For an XC bike, the rear would vastly outperform the front. The extra travel would primarily be for the extra geometry change. How about an XC bike with maybe a 75 degree HT and 80 degree ST while climbing, with a 66-68 degree HT descending?

  12. #1312
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    337
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    For an XC bike, the rear would vastly outperform the front. The extra travel would primarily be for the extra geometry change. How about an XC bike with maybe a 75 degree HT and 80 degree ST while climbing, with a 66-68 degree HT descending?
    Wicked. Better still if you can get the frame weight to 2500g or less.

    Reading through this, I feel like I'm having to shed some indoctrination about what makes a bike good. Is 'balanced' suspension still relevant when one side is no longer a limiting factor (and when it's doing double-duty to change the angles)?

    It sounds increasingly like you'd leave the long-travel back end alone and just pick the right fork for your terrain. When electronic damping gets fast enough, maybe just one long-travel fork, period.

  13. #1313
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EatsDirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    643
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    The problem is always going to be that the rear is going to outperform the front (at least until I resurrect my fork).
    Can you elaborate on that? Is the issue with high frequency stuff at top of stroke? Coil fork to balance it out?

    Seems that your statement carries to more then just an XC type setup... or am I wrong?

  14. #1314
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by alexdi View Post
    Wicked. Better still if you can get the frame weight to 2500g or less.

    Reading through this, I feel like I'm having to shed some indoctrination about what makes a bike good. Is 'balanced' suspension still relevant when one side is no longer a limiting factor (and when it's doing double-duty to change the angles)?

    It sounds increasingly like you'd leave the long-travel back end alone and just pick the right fork for your terrain. When electronic damping gets fast enough, maybe just one long-travel fork, period.
    A couple random comments on weight. I didn't intend for these first frames to be super light. The DT is DH thick. However, I spent a lot of time carving out unecessary metal/weight in every part. There was one crucial mistake in the mfg. The pivot shafts are made out of stainless steel instead of the intended aluminum.

    I discovered this when I went over in Aug to bring the first frames back. The factory engineer had apparently thought "surely this is not right" and spec'd them in stainless. This sounds ridiculous, but it's a good example of why you need to stay on top of every detail. As details go, fairly harmless, but added at least 200 grams to the frame.

    So the next run will likely be lighter, due to that alone.

    The question of "balanced suspension", will, I suppose, have to be redefined a bit in this context. My first 160 mm 29 rr test had a 140 29 fr. So it was balanced to a point. The point where the fr would be the limit. In my xc application, the front would always be the limit, albeit aided by the geo change.

    the only problem with the long travel fork in the xc mode is weight. Just no getting around it. So I claim it is "pick the fork for your intended use". And the back will just be better.

  15. #1315
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    Can you elaborate on that? Is the issue with high frequency stuff at top of stroke? Coil fork to balance it out?

    Seems that your statement carries to more then just an XC type setup... or am I wrong?
    You rode the bike. With a nice fork and a low end rear shock. What did you think?

    For me, it's more the sharp impacts. On Suicide, I had to stop halfway down to rest my hands (ok and catch my breath). But my hands were getting pounded by the rocks. Also, I was only worried about where I put the front wheel. That would be what would catch me out, not the rear.

    With the 29er front, it's less of a worry. Sure, obviously fr wheel placement is crucial, but it's just more forgiving and capable. And whatever the front can do and go thru, the rear is still better.

    High frequency too, if big amplitude. Charging thru longer rock sections, for me, the front is always the limit (unless I can lift it). The back just follows and never seems to get upset or step out of line or buck. Granted, I'm old and slow, but much faster people than me have had similar comments.

  16. #1316
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EatsDirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    643
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    You rode the bike. With a nice fork and a low end rear shock. What did you think?

    For me, it's more the sharp impacts. On Suicide, I had to stop halfway down to rest my hands (ok and catch my breath). But my hands were getting pounded by the rocks. Also, I was only worried about where I put the front wheel. That would be what would catch me out, not the rear.

    With the 29er front, it's less of a worry. Sure, obviously fr wheel placement is crucial, but it's just more forgiving and capable. And whatever the front can do and go thru, the rear is still better.

    High frequency too, if big amplitude. Charging thru longer rock sections, for me, the front is always the limit (unless I can lift it). The back just follows and never seems to get upset or step out of line or buck. Granted, I'm old and slow, but much faster people than me have had similar comments.
    That makes sense. I felt the back end disappear no doubt, just wondering if you had more insight to further wrap my head around the "balance" of the suspension. Taking the rear end tracking out of the equation is good enough though I figure. Seems now the challenge might be getting a fork to work half as well as the rear...

    Can't wait to spend more time on it!

  17. #1317
    monkey
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    14
    From this discussion it sounds like my 125mm 'light trail' build will be about as balanced as possible presently. I have a 29er Formula 35 fork at 140 travel ready to go on. I have been running one of these on my hardtail for nearly a year and have been blown away by how smooth they are. I'm a much faster rider on this bike than I was on my dually and I attribute this largely to the phenomenal bump eating of the fork.

  18. #1318
    monkey
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    14
    Sounds like the XL frame is inching towards reality! Also sounds like I won't have any trouble offloading my L when it happens...

  19. #1319
    WillWorkForTrail
    Reputation: Cotharyus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    3,790
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    I wonder if there will be an L laying around here after the dust clears......

    or the 500mm reach on the upcoming (rumoured) XL?

    Hey, after hanging out with some of the internet engineers discussing my suspension (not you), can I just be called an artist instead? Wait, is that more pretentious or less?
    You'll have to keep me updated on the status of that XL frame. Size wise? I still haven't quite got the hang of this new school stack and reach thing. I know when I was looking at XC bikes, the ETT needed be 25-25.5 inches to make me feel good about the chances of the bike fitting. That's changed a bit with steeper seat tubes and slacker head tubes.

    I suppose we could call you an artist. Give you some funny symbol for a name, and call you the Artist formerly known as Engineer?

  20. #1320
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Gunnar Westholm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    239
    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    That makes sense. I felt the back end disappear no doubt, just wondering if you had more insight to further wrap my head around the "balance" of the suspension. Taking the rear end tracking out of the equation is good enough though I figure. Seems now the challenge might be getting a fork to work half as well as the rear...

    Can't wait to spend more time on it!
    To me the true limit is what the rear wheel tyre can survive. I pinched my front tyre early this summer. But historically I guess the flats have bin on the rear wheel ~9 outa 10 times...
    The longer the travel is in the rear - The lowe the tyre pressure can be, and still survive against pinch and dings AND give best possible traction to match the crazy inclines missinglink are capable of.
    For now I look forward to 29" 160mm dropouts. But it's not unlikely I will keep on urging for the 27,5 180mm option to get even more shark-eating and hill-flattening travel and geo adjustment in the rear

    www.cyco.no

  21. #1321
    Armature speller
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    2,421
    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    I suppose we could call you an artist. Give you some funny symbol for a name, and call you the Artist formerly known as Engineer?
    To paraphrase Monty Python...
    He's not the engineer, he's just a very naughty boy.

  22. #1322
    because GIANT
    Reputation: 127.0.0.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2,758
    ahh back and got to ride my bike again. yup, thing is just a silly good climber and descender...the 170mm diamond doesn't hurt
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  23. #1323
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    That makes sense. I felt the back end disappear no doubt, just wondering if you had more insight to further wrap my head around the "balance" of the suspension. Taking the rear end tracking out of the equation is good enough though I figure. Seems now the challenge might be getting a fork to work half as well as the rear...

    Can't wait to spend more time on it!
    I guess it's a new balance. in Ye Oldene' Days of Yore, I would have described balanced as; each end was equally capable of any given terrain feature. If thee front was butter and the rear bucked you sideways off the bike....not balanced.

    In this sense, the Missing Link bike shave been a bit imbalanced from the start. The rear end seems to take everything in stride, even with the lowest priced shock available. Which is now improved with the DVO Topaz rear shock. I claim the 160 mm Diamond with 29 fr wheel is close to the rear. 170 mm 29er front......hmmm

  24. #1324
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by Mashlings View Post
    Sounds like the XL frame is inching towards reality! Also sounds like I won't have any trouble offloading my L when it happens...
    it seems logical. I believe I would sell as many as I sell size L, which is more than S.

    I probably should expand to more than 3 sizes anyway.....and it's the tall guys getting the short end of the tube

  25. #1325
    because GIANT
    Reputation: 127.0.0.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2,758
    ride update: I finally got around to taking this thing off jumps.

    -oh BOY does it eat the landing. super marshmallow poofy landings

    -not bottoming out the shock, still have 3mm left on the oring

    now I need to find all the jumps I can...to a point. holy smokes... new lines await
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  26. #1326
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    ride update: I finally got around to taking this thing off jumps.

    -oh BOY does it eat the landing. super marshmallow poofy landings

    -not bottoming out the shock, still have 3mm left on the oring

    now I need to find all the jumps I can...to a point. holy smokes... new lines await
    Love listening to all you guys enthuse about how FUN this bike is to ride - can't wait for mine!!

  27. #1327
    monkey
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    it seems logical. I believe I would sell as many as I sell size L, which is more than S.

    I probably should expand to more than 3 sizes anyway.....and it's the tall guys getting the short end of the tube
    I hear you. The only time this white male feels discriminated against is looking at geo sheets from the bike companies! Now if you could make the seat tube 22" that would really be something, worrying about standover ht is not a thing. Being asked "What's the weather like up there?" That's a thing...

  28. #1328
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    The word "tomorrow" always need time/space continuum considerations.....

    I assembled your frame with a NON boost crank and was fine with a 32 T ring.

    More BB/crank findings later, but for now:

    I disassembled the frame a little for the New Zealand shipment. But it should be there Wed.
    Great to see pictures of it! I have been contacted by customs and sent back their paperwork as quickly as I could, but they may delay things a bit further. Hopefully not too long though...

  29. #1329
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    98
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    In my xc application, the front would always be the limit, albeit aided by the geo change.

    the only problem with the long travel fork in the xc mode is weight. Just no getting around it. So I claim it is "pick the fork for your intended use". And the back will just be better.
    Weight is always important for an xc bike but sharper handling is part of the package as well. Even if there was a super light 160 mm fork you probably wouldn't put it on an xc bike as a 64 degree head would be a handful on tight single track.

  30. #1330
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    5
    Finally got to take mine out for a real ride yesterday (the snapped chain 5min in to the ride last week doesn't count). It was my first time building up a frame from scratch, so I found out I didn't have a couple necessary tools and forgot a couple small items needed to finish the build. Which meant lots of waiting on deliveries and drives across town to the LBS. I'd make progress only to hit another road block, but all's nearly well now.

    Installed a brand new set of Magura Trail brakes and the front isn't right. Even after bedding the pads, it feels like it needs a bleed badly. The lever goes all the way to the bar and the power is extremely lacking. Rear has no issues. So, I'm going to shorten the lines and hopefully be able to capture the fluid in the extra line length. I'll use the captured fluid to bleed the front with so I won't be stuck waiting around another couple days on Magura's proprietary fluid to arrive.

    The bike is incredibly capable uphill. It's most noticeable when grinding climbs out. The rear end is just planted and seems to propel you uphill. I struggled a bit on the more extreme technical climbs that require more trial-like skills to rock hop up. It's going to take more practice and experience on my part to deal with 160mm travel on the rear.

    The trails around here are still covered in loose leaves and that plus a barely working front brake consumed all my brain power on the downhill. I was just trying to keep things shiny side up, so my impressions going down will have to wait.

  31. #1331
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by bzflag View Post

    Installed a brand new set of Magura Trail brakes and the front isn't right. Even after bedding the pads, it feels like it needs a bleed badly. The lever goes all the way to the bar and the power is extremely lacking.
    let me know and I can get a new brake to you before the weekend

  32. #1332
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    841
    I just want to offer some input on the Magura brakes thing as I went through a LOT of trouble getting my MT Trail carbons to work right.

    1) The brakes are AMAZING now that they are working well. Power, modulation, everything is just so good. Heads and shoulders better than the XTR brakes I had always been on from a performance and usability standpoint on the bike.

    2) However, they are very temperamental imo (not to use) to set up. Also the warranty service was great. And the bleeding instructions are not 100% correct either.

    3) After I tried bleeding them, then my bike shop tried bleeding them, we had the fortune of the local Magura rep not living but 10 min from my house and the bike shop and he was extremely helpful.

    What I can offer is that you need to disconnect the caliper from the fork and make certain that the caliper is situated where the air rises. Then your syringe on the other end at the reservoir needs to be the highest point (which is different than the instructions). Be sure and tap everything to assist air with escaping.

    Also Magura brakes have that great tight lever feel and high friction. However to achieve this the pads barely, and I mean just barely retract, and the pads are very grippy. If anything at all is even slightly warped, or poorly aligned, even just a tiny amount, you will get serious drag.

    Good luck!

  33. #1333
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    ride update: I finally got around to taking this thing off jumps.

    -oh BOY does it eat the landing. super marshmallow poofy landings

    -not bottoming out the shock, still have 3mm left on the oring

    now I need to find all the jumps I can...to a point. holy smokes... new lines await
    If you start doing big stuff, still room for more vol spacers. I'm running a series of tests off a jump and baselining bottoming pressures with different vol spacers....future shock research.

  34. #1334
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyGreg View Post
    Love listening to all you guys enthuse about how FUN this bike is to ride - can't wait for mine!!
    Greg, your frame is in the shop. Hammered Lizard with super special optional coloured linkage it is. Funny, I don't recall that combo on your graphics contest entry.

    It's a fun bike. The problem for me is....I realized I'm not as good a rider as I think I am....if I was on another bike, I wouldn't clear half the shit...stark realization from demo rides on customers bikes (you know who you are).

  35. #1335
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by Mashlings View Post
    I hear you. The only time this white male feels discriminated against is looking at geo sheets from the bike companies! Now if you could make the seat tube 22" that would really be something, worrying about standover ht is not a thing. Being asked "What's the weather like up there?" That's a thing...
    I only discriminate if I can't sell any... the longer trend will bail me out there. but that's a problem with a 22" ST. then shorter guys that want ultra long reach can't ride it. Aren't droppers long enough that you can get by with a 21". The current L is 19.5"

  36. #1336
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-raw-2-s.jpgraw

    this was a test. Many have inquired about raw. But I hate corrosion. So i did a test with a walnut shell blasted frame with clearcoat. Here it is.

    I like it. It looks painted, but with variations. Probably as close to an actual natural aluminum finish as you'll getNew innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-raw1-s.jpg

  37. #1337
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EatsDirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    643
    I like it.

  38. #1338
    monkey
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    I only discriminate if I can't sell any... the longer trend will bail me out there. but that's a problem with a 22" ST. then shorter guys that want ultra long reach can't ride it. Aren't droppers long enough that you can get by with a 21". The current L is 19.5"
    Sure, 21" is fine, as my old Dad used to say "if you don't ask, you don't get"!

  39. #1339
    WillWorkForTrail
    Reputation: Cotharyus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    3,790
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    ...stark realization from demo rides on customers bikes (you know who you are).
    But you didn't even ride my bike?

    I bet you'd have looked funny on an XL frame setup old school XC too.

  40. #1340
    WillWorkForTrail
    Reputation: Cotharyus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    3,790
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	raw 2 s.jpg 
Views:	50 
Size:	159.2 KB 
ID:	1170854raw

    this was a test. Many have inquired about raw. But I hate corrosion. So i did a test with a walnut shell blasted frame with clearcoat. Here it is.

    I like it. It looks painted, but with variations. Probably as close to an actual natural aluminum finish as you'll getClick image for larger version. 

Name:	raw1 s.jpg 
Views:	49 
Size:	95.2 KB 
ID:	1170852
    That's pretty cool. It's like it has some transitions and fades in it. I bet that would look sweet with some metallic fleck in the clear.

  41. #1341
    because GIANT
    Reputation: 127.0.0.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2,758
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Hammered Lizard with super special optional coloured linkage it is.
    a challenger appears ! pics NAO !
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  42. #1342
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by Mashlings View Post
    I hear you. The only time this white male feels discriminated against is looking at geo sheets from the bike companies! Now if you could make the seat tube 22" that would really be something, worrying about standover ht is not a thing. Being asked "What's the weather like up there?" That's a thing...
    you're coming up quick

  43. #1343
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by welf View Post
    Great to see pictures of it! I have been contacted by customs and sent back their paperwork as quickly as I could, but they may delay things a bit further. Hopefully not too long though...
    tracking shows thurs del. I'm holding my breath with you.

  44. #1344
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    But you didn't even ride my bike?

    I bet you'd have looked funny on an XL frame setup old school XC too.
    I don't think I could even swing a leg over your bike. On our demo ride, I rode bzflag's bike, a Giant. It was a fun bike, just not...you know.

    Hopefully he gets his brakes sorted this weekend and he can tell us

  45. #1345
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    a challenger appears ! pics NAO !
    He sent me a "photoshopped version" looked pretty cool, but I don't want to let the cat out of the bag yet. Probably have the ano next week.

  46. #1346
    because GIANT
    Reputation: 127.0.0.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2,758
    ^it's probably gonna make my bike look like poop I just know it

    BB, throw some anodize on the barbie,
    I want the drive side missing link yellow, non-drive blue, the
    short middle chunk at top of shock green, drive side seatstay link I'll keep red, non-drive side big seatstay link orange, and I'll need new boooooost dropouts. drive side silver(natural) brake mount purple.

    oh and the bolts all need to be the opposite color of what they are bolting to,
    including the brake mount pins.


    you got lotsa free time for that, aimrite ?

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    WAIT,

    I already know what your answer is gonna be:

    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  47. #1347
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    280
    Someone should go throw some tantrums in these comments about react2play or whatever itís called https://m.pinkbike.com/news/2017-pin...-nominees.html


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  48. #1348
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dv8zen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    128
    Fear the wrath of internet mob judgment... xD

  49. #1349
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by rad3144 View Post
    Someone should go throw some tantrums in these comments about react2play or whatever itís called https://m.pinkbike.com/news/2017-pin...-nominees.html


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    I was probably s'posed to "enter" or something.

  50. #1350
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    158

    Long term review

    I have 2 months of riding time on a Meltdown and here is my review.

    short version:
    Climbs better than my Tallboy LTc
    Downhills as good as my Intense 951 EVO except when really rough and better in tight turns or quick moves.

    Rider - 5'11" - 180 lbs fast on the downhills - not quite as fast on the ups as when I was younger. Ride mostly in BC - everything from smooth cruisers to knarly freeride

    Bike Setup

    Medium Meltdown 160mm travel
    DVO shock with 6 positive spacers and 1 negative - 210 psi
    Fork - MRP Ribbon 29/27.5+ 160mm 85 psi
    NOBL TR45 Carbon single wall with
    NOBL (Onyx) silent - instant engagement hubs
    XTR brakes 200mm front and 180mm rear
    X01 drivetrain 10-42 and oval 26 front ring
    Crank Brothers Highline dropper 125mm travel -slammed for my inseam
    Specialized 27.5 x 2.6 Purgatory tires with Cush Core inserts
    20 - 24 psi rear, 16 - 20 psi front
    Have used 2.8 and 3.0 tires.

    The build was straight forward except for my non-standard narrow Q factor cranks from the previous build which had to be replaced. One surprise was when I removed the shock to add 1 pos and 1 neg volume spacer I was not expecting the 2 spacers under the lower shock cradle which fell into the hole but were retrieved easily. Getting the dropper cable routed took a few minutes but not too bad.

    First ride

    Climbing a fireroad and making it up pitches I didn't on the old bike but maybe it's just new bike excitement. Pedalling on the trail through obstacles feels really good. Fast downhill on a very narrow high speed sidehill traverse finishing on steep loose switchbacks. Tracks really well seems really smooth and quick through the switchbacks.

    Second ride

    Kicking Horse bike park which is known to be challenging and rough. Can't believe how this 160mm bike is soaking up everything. Some of that is due to the plus tires and Cush Core with low pressure but some has to be due to the rear suspension. Flies and lands the jumps really well. Think that I might not need my downhill bike anymore. Only one landing off of a very long double and I come up a little short I feel it bottoming. Later added the 2 volume spacers and was able to drop the pressure and no bottoming since.

    After installing the 2 volume spacers I go for a short ride near my house on trails that I know well to check the shock settings etc. There is an uphill, not steep, but with a large root to climb over similar to the one on Brian's video. I pedal up to it and right over and carry on with almost no disturbance to my forward momentum. What just happened there? The "Missing Link" puts all your power down and stiffens the suspension and keeps the geometry steep until it encounters the large root and then INSTANTLY becomes soft while it absorbs the root, and then INSTANTLY puts the power and traction back down before you have even fully cleared the root and you carry on down the trail with a grin on your face. I carry onto a trail I named Cliffhanger which is in tight trees on the edge of the river bank with short downhills followed by off camber tight turns followed by short steep rooty climbs and lots of tricky sidehill and roots ending with a root infested steep downhill. This bike rode the entire thing perfectly and all the terrain transitions were way easier.

    I have ridden her on a large variety of trails since including a 5000' climb and descent (see picture on home page of Tantrum Cycles), fast cross county trails, BC shuttle downhill trails, etc. and the bike performs great everywhere.

    Lots of people are talking about the stiff pedalling platform because that's what the industry has been preaching but this suspension does a lot more than that. Many of today's designs can come close in smooth climbing but none can absorb bumps like this design instantly and then go back to firm climbing. The rearward bump force easily overcomes the pedalling stiffening force until the bump passes. Brian has it totally dialed. Downhilling any rearward bump force is transmitted through the missing link to help the shock absorb it. Under braking the rear stays neutral as the compressive force on the suspension from the brakes counteracts the inertia force which would otherwise extend the suspension. The climbing geometry getting steeper when pedalling is tuned based on how hard you pedal and works as advertized. Uphill switchbacks are just plain easier and general climbing is definitely more efficient.

    This is the best rear suspension system I have tried period. I pretty sure it is the best suspension system period,

    Reviews of components.

    Cush Core - (I was using this on 29er wheels on my last bike and on 27.5 wheels on my downhill bike). This is the best thing since dropper posts. There is a learning curve for installation and removal but is well worth it. Lower pressures for traction and smoothness but no sidewall squirm. No rim damage on big hits. Can limp out on a flat. Run Enduro tires but feels better than downhill tires. On any big hits it damps the hit.

    MRP Ribbon fork - put it on and set up as per manufacturer's recommendations. Tweaked pressure up 5 psi and rebound a couple of clicks and have not touched it since. Running with compression off. Very smooth and have not bottomed it. The ability to run 10% higher negative pressure to compensate for different piston areas on the positive and negative pressure sides is what really makes this fork.

    NOBL TR45 wheels - single wall for better compliance. Onyx silent instant engagement hubs. These are SWEET

    Crank Brothers Highline dropper post - Best actuator design out there and just the right drop and return speed for great control.

    Specialized tires - 2.6 Purgatory, 3.0 Purgatory, 3.0 Ground Control. All excellent and way lower price than other brands except Bontrager.

  51. #1351
    WillWorkForTrail
    Reputation: Cotharyus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    3,790
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    I don't think I could even swing a leg over your bike. On our demo ride, I rode bzflag's bike, a Giant. It was a fun bike, just not...you know.

    Hopefully he gets his brakes sorted this weekend and he can tell us
    Right. If memory serves he had a Stance, 27.5 120mm travel, flexpoint suspension. I'm certain he and I both had more fun than you that day.

  52. #1352
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Greg, your frame is in the shop. Hammered Lizard with super special optional coloured linkage it is. Funny, I don't recall that combo on your graphics contest entry.

    It's a fun bike. The problem for me is....I realized I'm not as good a rider as I think I am....if I was on another bike, I wouldn't clear half the shit...stark realization from demo rides on customers bikes (you know who you are).
    Hmmm, I wonder if he's talking about me.

    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    I don't think I could even swing a leg over your bike. On our demo ride, I rode bzflag's bike, a Giant. It was a fun bike, just not...you know.

    Hopefully he gets his brakes sorted this weekend and he can tell us
    Haha, yep, he sure is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    Right. If memory serves he had a Stance, 27.5 120mm travel, flexpoint suspension. I'm certain he and I both had more fun than you that day.
    That's the one. I think I might've still had the stock fork and worn Ardents on there when he rode it too. *Shudder*

    Sorry, Brian.

    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    let me know and I can get a new brake to you before the weekend
    Thanks for looking out. I'll definitely try to get them bled before I warranty anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I just want to offer some input on the Magura brakes thing as I went through a LOT of trouble getting my MT Trail carbons to work right.

    1) The brakes are AMAZING now that they are working well. Power, modulation, everything is just so good. Heads and shoulders better than the XTR brakes I had always been on from a performance and usability standpoint on the bike.

    2) However, they are very temperamental imo (not to use) to set up. Also the warranty service was great. And the bleeding instructions are not 100% correct either.

    3) After I tried bleeding them, then my bike shop tried bleeding them, we had the fortune of the local Magura rep not living but 10 min from my house and the bike shop and he was extremely helpful.

    What I can offer is that you need to disconnect the caliper from the fork and make certain that the caliper is situated where the air rises. Then your syringe on the other end at the reservoir needs to be the highest point (which is different than the instructions). Be sure and tap everything to assist air with escaping.

    Also Magura brakes have that great tight lever feel and high friction. However to achieve this the pads barely, and I mean just barely retract, and the pads are very grippy. If anything at all is even slightly warped, or poorly aligned, even just a tiny amount, you will get serious drag.

    Good luck!
    Thanks for the tips! I noticed the same things as you as far as set up. It was definitely tougher than usual to get rid of the drag (coming from mostly Shimano brakes). I'll try that bleed method and report back.

    Here's my build:
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-img_0101.jpg
    Medium Meltdown
    Topaz Shock
    Diamond Fork - 170mm, Boost, 27.5
    XT Groupset
    Magura Trail
    Hope Hubs
    Stan's Flow
    Maxxis DHF and HRII
    Brand X Ascend 150mm

  53. #1353
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    27
    I like the clear coat and will choose that option if it is available for the next batch of frames. A clear coated frame won't show scratches and chips as readily as colored powder coatings so may look better in the long term.

  54. #1354
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by Ridge Rider View Post
    Brian has it totally dialed.
    thanks DL. ya, it's personal

    This is backer #5. early days

  55. #1355
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    Right. If memory serves he had a Stance, 27.5 120mm travel, flexpoint suspension. I'm certain he and I both had more fun than you that day.
    Are you kidding me??? I was having a blast. Sure, that bike was not as capable, but it was still fun. but I got to watch you guys as you came to the realization that my freakin bike is real. This was still pretty early days and early demos. I hadn't done anything out west yet.

    I remember talking with you afterward about it and you were looking at me like I invented gold. Seriously. I was sitting there thinking "this guy knows what I've done".

    I can't overstate the freakin wow factor of believing it myself. In the overall scheme of life, a whole lot of fvck all, but dammit, I ride bikes.

  56. #1356
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by bzflag View Post
    Hmmm, I wonder if he's talking about me.

    Haha, yep, he sure is.

    That's the one. I think I might've still had the stock fork and worn Ardents on there when he rode it too. *Shudder*

    Sorry, Brian.

    Thanks for looking out. I'll definitely try to get them bled before I warranty anything.
    I think the fork mighta been the scariest part of that. Do I remember it seeming to flex back and tuck under the frame when it got rough? No? I guess just memory scars. But I appreciated the ride. What was I gonna do, sit in the parking lot while you guys had fun??

    And it's great learning for me. In the course of my demo rides, I've been on Yetis, SC's, Intenses, Pivots, Lenzs, Breezer M links, and who knows what else.

    They are all fun. And they all show me what a crappy rider I am when I'm not on my bike. I can't climb shiite. And I'm a little scared going fast.

    side note "Ardent" story. When I did the orginal PB test with RC (barely over a year ago, wow), I had Ardents on the bikes. With tubes. And got a flat. He shoulda ripped me. He told me "don't bring those tires out west, they're death". But then said "he had a strange confidence in sketchy DH swithbacks"

    also...no dropper

    lowest possible end shock and fork.

    brakes that I won't mention the name but we were both pumping them up all the way down rocky peak with the pads burning to a crisp.

    some narrow ass east coast 740 mm bars.

    He was actually a friend on that test. I was so focused on the suspension, I thought I could prove it without fancy parts. Forgetting of course if the bike is terrifying to ride for other reasons...

    Sooo, no apology, thanks for letting me ride your bike. Get your brakes working or let me send you another one.

  57. #1357
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EatsDirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    643
    Quote Originally Posted by Chubb View Post
    I like the clear coat and will choose that option if it is available for the next batch of frames. A clear coated frame won't show scratches and chips as readily as colored powder coatings so may look better in the long term.
    Looks good. Even better might be ball burnished. No clear coat to chip/stratch.

  58. #1358
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Greg, your frame is in the shop. Hammered Lizard with super special optional coloured linkage it is. Funny, I don't recall that combo on your graphics contest entry.

    It's a fun bike. The problem for me is....I realized I'm not as good a rider as I think I am....if I was on another bike, I wouldn't clear half the shit...stark realization from demo rides on customers bikes (you know who you are).
    Name:  Excited-much.png
Views: 332
Size:  13.8 KB

  59. #1359
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    6
    ... I don't recall that combo on your graphics contest entry.

    Well with all the colour options you keep offering what's an artist to do! :P
    (Clearcoat looks sweet btw)

    127.0.0.1 - man it's a good job I wasn't drinking something when I scrolled to your comment...

  60. #1360
    WillWorkForTrail
    Reputation: Cotharyus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    3,790
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Are you kidding me??? I was having a blast. Sure, that bike was not as capable, but it was still fun. but I got to watch you guys as you came to the realization that my freakin bike is real. This was still pretty early days and early demos. I hadn't done anything out west yet.

    I remember talking with you afterward about it and you were looking at me like I invented gold. Seriously. I was sitting there thinking "this guy knows what I've done".

    I can't overstate the freakin wow factor of believing it myself. In the overall scheme of life, a whole lot of fvck all, but dammit, I ride bikes.
    Ok, it was probably a blast seeing me recognize what you'd done. But I seriously had a ball running around there on that bike letting fly on things I have to hold back on some with my own bike. Alchemist or Engineer? Maybe you didn't create gold, but you did create the gold standard for MTB suspension. And yeah. I suppose even a not-so-great bike and a ride on an ear-to-ear trail is a whole lot better than....well, probably most things you can do with your clothes on.

  61. #1361
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    ^it's probably gonna make my bike look like poop I just know it

    BB, throw some anodize on the barbie,
    I want the drive side missing link yellow, non-drive blue, the
    short middle chunk at top of shock green, drive side seatstay link I'll keep red, non-drive side big seatstay link orange, and I'll need new boooooost dropouts. drive side silver(natural) brake mount purple.

    oh and the bolts all need to be the opposite color of what they are bolting to,
    including the brake mount pins.


    you got lotsa free time for that, aimrite ?

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    WAIT,

    I already know what your answer is gonna be:
    My REAL answer is , custom ano, $150/color and 2 weeks delay.

    The bolts? that's tougher, since they're stainless, but I'll get some easter egg dye for $50/bolt. And 2 weeks delay.

    Oh, wait, you already have your bike.....

    but I think I want your middle finger meme for a screen saver. Mesmerizing.

  62. #1362
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    Looks good. Even better might be ball burnished. No clear coat to chip/stratch.
    my corrosion paranoia won't let me send an unpainted frame out. Realistically unlikely to cause a problem. I have several that are over 10 yrs old, but they don't really get ridden any more. They just look like dust.

  63. #1363
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    66
    Quote Originally Posted by Ridge Rider View Post
    NOBL (Onyx) silent - instant engagement hubs
    Wow!!
    Anybody knows where do find Onyx hubs in Europe?

  64. #1364
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Some of the frame colors done this year, along with with Hammered Lizard and Purple Haze.

    A couple of new ones getting done, including a chrome, which should be interesting and a custom burnt orange/copper

    vote for your favorite, market research for next batch
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-frame-colors-s.jpg

  65. #1365
    because GIANT
    Reputation: 127.0.0.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2,758
    copper penny hammer I presume ?

    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  66. #1366
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    869
    I like the blue and red. Especially Red Rum. I dont' get worked up over colors though as I never wash my bike anyway so black is a good color for me. Water is not good for bearings you know.

    Its been asked a couple of times and not answered, but is there still an issue or delay with the 29'er dropouts ?

  67. #1367
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dv8zen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    128
    I'm pretty practical. I go for the paint that serves its purpose of protecting the surface more effectively and efficiently. Metallic is classic. Black tends to be thin and hard, but can be an issue if things are temp sensitive. Blues tend to have some beautiful depth on metal, with darker metallic shades being close to being as practical as black. Green typically is nice and unique looking for a modest duration, then you start to regret choosing it, as if it doesn't age gracefully. White tends to be thick and not so durable, same for other bright and candy-like colors (fine if these are powdercoats though). Other colors tend to be fads that don't age too gracefully either. xD

    That all said, I tend to like certain color schemes that have minimal streaks of contrast.
    - Bright clean white with strokes of deep dark blue/sapphire
    - Dark gunmetal grey contrasted with modest amounts of matte black (lighter shade of gunmetal grey can be contrasted with polished metal)
    - Deep dark metallic blue, lightly trimmed with polished metal/chrome and modest amounts of matte black

    I used to like gloss black with very light gloss yellow-orange, but livestrong hijacked that one.

  68. #1368
    CTB
    CTB is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,265
    I like the blue and green, and the purple you made for your wife. That burnt-orange/copper sounds intriguing.

    I'm just happy you made colors with paint (powder coat). I'm tired of ano, and even more tired of bare carbon. Every bike I own has a nice paint job except for the dead-raw aluminum one.

  69. #1369
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    copper penny hammer I presume ?

    IN ter EST ing. For the record, yours is Silver Vein, I just made up "Hammered Lizard" (assist to Gunnar for "lizard skin" with full anti-lawsuit apologies to "lizard skin"

    I haven't seen the copper penny, but I am gonna try a blue vein, or some other vein, once I get these pesky, color mind changing kickstarter customers out of the way.

  70. #1370
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    I like the blue and red. Especially Red Rum. I dont' get worked up over colors though as I never wash my bike anyway so black is a good color for me. Water is not good for bearings you know.

    Its been asked a couple of times and not answered, but is there still an issue or delay with the 29'er dropouts ?
    Guess what Preston? I know, nobody likes to hear me say "when you don't hear from me, it's the sound of me working", but damn, things take time...but....since time has passed, take a look:
    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-e-machine-dropouts-s.jpg

    As some of you know (people wanting a 29" rear wheel), I have not had dropouts. The short story is, about 80% of the orders were for 27.5 DO's, so for production simplification, that's how all frames were ordered.

    I thought it would be relatively simple to catch up on 29er dropouts. In theory, yes. However, the learning curve continues. It's one thing to get reasonable price/delivery, etc, when your dropouts are part of an entire frame worth of work, including CNC, tubes and welding. BUT, when you're just asking for a handful of CNC parts after the fact, price goes up and lead time takes longer. Then throw in extra shipping costs and time, plus import duties.

    Rather than wait for my Taiwan factory, I decided to try a new U.S. supplier. After a bit of research, I went with emachineshop.com. Up until now, I had no dealing with or knowledge of them. I went with them on feel and discussion. While I don't have the parts yet, I have a pic and they are shipping tomorrow.

    Ano will take a week, but they are coming.

    www.emachineshop.com

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-emachine-logo-jpg.jpg

  71. #1371
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by dv8zen View Post
    I'm pretty practical. I go for the paint that serves its purpose of protecting the surface more effectively and efficiently. Metallic is classic. Black tends to be thin and hard, but can be an issue if things are temp sensitive. Blues tend to have some beautiful depth on metal, with darker metallic shades being close to being as practical as black. Green typically is nice and unique looking for a modest duration, then you start to regret choosing it, as if it doesn't age gracefully. White tends to be thick and not so durable, same for other bright and candy-like colors (fine if these are powdercoats though). Other colors tend to be fads that don't age too gracefully either. xD

    That all said, I tend to like certain color schemes that have minimal streaks of contrast.
    - Bright clean white with strokes of deep dark blue/sapphire
    - Dark gunmetal grey contrasted with modest amounts of matte black (lighter shade of gunmetal grey can be contrasted with polished metal)
    - Deep dark metallic blue, lightly trimmed with polished metal/chrome and modest amounts of matte black

    I used to like gloss black with very light gloss yellow-orange, but livestrong hijacked that one.
    They are all powder coated, but I've still found large differences in thickness, depending on color. Almost everything there is two coat, except the clearcoat/raw.

    the problem is that there are too many choices

  72. #1372
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    I like the blue and green, and the purple you made for your wife. That burnt-orange/copper sounds intriguing.

    I'm just happy you made colors with paint (powder coat). I'm tired of ano, and even more tired of bare carbon. Every bike I own has a nice paint job except for the dead-raw aluminum one.
    Ok......this is NOT, I repeat NOT!!!!! a political post. But it seemed a fair comparison.

    When you are asked to vote and you vote for 4 disparate colours, it's kinda like voting for obama/trump/perot/nader/biden/romney

    or something.

    I will make a blue/green/purple/orange fame.....for $500 and one month delay

    Seriously though, your reddish/black frame is in the paint shop

  73. #1373
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dv8zen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    128
    Brian, have you ever looked into bio-mimicry? I get bothered when I see machined parts, that could take on almost any 3D form imaginable considering the advancement of CNC machines and software, still retaining typical engineer-style structures.

    One example is called the Mattheck chamfer:
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comput...d_Optimization

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-wschulter.jpg

    Back to colors: take into consideration the general color of other parts. Lots of black, typical ano colors, kashima, dvo green, enduro blue, flo colors here and there (that fade in sunlight), hard ano Al and other metallic colors... is it costly/complicated to offer so many colors? Is there significant savings to be had to do bulk batches in 1 color?

  74. #1374
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TripleR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    88
    I'm a pesky last in line indie gogo! Orange Vein Lizard Haze sounds perfect!!!

  75. #1375
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    the problem is that there are too many choices
    No joke!... you've had me constantly second guessing my colour choices the whole way through this - so many nice options!

    Look forward to checking out the burnt orange/copper

  76. #1376
    CTB
    CTB is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,265
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Ok......this is NOT, I repeat NOT!!!!! a political post. But it seemed a fair comparison.

    When you are asked to vote and you vote for 4 disparate colours, it's kinda like voting for obama/trump/perot/nader/biden/romney

    or something.
    I officially voted with my money. Mine's blue. Or at least it will be once it's done.

  77. #1377
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    98
    I vote for matte brown or green. Or just go all Henry Ford and allow any color you want, as long as its black.

  78. #1378
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    869
    Good news on the dropouts, thanks for letting us know.

    I used eMachine shop many years ago to build some trigger wheels for the traction control system on my tube frame twin turbo 1968 "Mustang". The first pair was reasonable like $90 apiece. Six months later I ordered another set for the rear end, same specs, and the price was $180 apiece. Ouch. And they took a few weeks, but overall I was happy with the process other than its always too expensive.

  79. #1379
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Gunnar Westholm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    239
    Quote Originally Posted by TripleR View Post
    I'm a pesky last in line indie gogo! Orange Vein Lizard Haze sounds perfect!!!
    I would like to see that one! At least it sounds good.
    I really like my Blood Redrum! But I guess Vein texture will age better then regular finish. How about Vein Blood Redrum? Coagulate blood!!!? http://www.drtrev.com/gallery/coagul...ology-gallery/
    Damn I did not think about that earlier...

    www.cyco.no

  80. #1380
    CTB
    CTB is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,265
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    As some of you know (people wanting a 29" rear wheel), I have not had dropouts. The short story is, about 80% of the orders were for 27.5 DO's, so for production simplification, that's how all frames were ordered.
    Does this mean every frame ordered came with 27.5 (12x142 or 148?) dropouts? My point being if one ordered both 29 and 27.5 dropouts, the 27.5s are already on-hand? Thanks for this update.

  81. #1381
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by dv8zen View Post
    Brian, have you ever looked into bio-mimicry? I get bothered when I see machined parts, that could take on almost any 3D form imaginable considering the advancement of CNC machines and software, still retaining typical engineer-style structures.

    One example is called the Mattheck chamfer:
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comput...d_Optimization

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	wschulter.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	72.5 KB 
ID:	1172068

    Back to colors: take into consideration the general color of other parts. Lots of black, typical ano colors, kashima, dvo green, enduro blue, flo colors here and there (that fade in sunlight), hard ano Al and other metallic colors... is it costly/complicated to offer so many colors? Is there significant savings to be had to do bulk batches in 1 color?
    Sure, those dropouts could take on cues from nature and be more "organic" looking, but you wouldn't want to pay for them. There are many reasons why machined parts with cost as a driver look the way they do. I can take an off the shelf rounded end mill in a 3 axis machine and cut the profile on the left of your picture in one pass. I can also save time (money) on the simpler jigging and CAM programming. Off the shelf tooling means money saved in tooling costs, using a 3 axis machine would reduce the billing rate for machine time, and single passes would reduce the machine time. All of this is a win for you the consumer at a small increase in part weight when cost is an important consideration, and not optimized for a strength to weight ratio with cost thrown out the window.

    Sorry, this isn't Formula 1.

  82. #1382
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by dv8zen View Post
    Brian, have you ever looked into bio-mimicry? I get bothered when I see machined parts, that could take on almost any 3D form imaginable considering the advancement of CNC machines and software, still retaining typical engineer-style structures.

    One example is called the Mattheck chamfer:
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comput...d_Optimization

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	wschulter.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	72.5 KB 
ID:	1172068

    Back to colors: take into consideration the general color of other parts. Lots of black, typical ano colors, kashima, dvo green, enduro blue, flo colors here and there (that fade in sunlight), hard ano Al and other metallic colors... is it costly/complicated to offer so many colors? Is there significant savings to be had to do bulk batches in 1 color?
    As bzflag mentioned, cost is a factor. But, I have drawn plenty of silly, expensive to machine cnc parts for this bikes. Take a look at the one piece SS bridge, not a single right angle on the part except the attachment to the rocker, or the BB lug.

    If anything, the factories look at my parts and say "why is it so complicated". The general answer is "to make it as light as possible". The other answer is looking forward to forgings. Once I get enough numbers, these all go to forgings. Then the cost is not so bad. AND as magical thing happens called a draft angle (so the parts don't get stuck in the mold). This actually does a reasonable job of approximating your optimized angle.

    colors. There is a batch processing savings to doing less colors. But more than that..if you offer 3 or 4 sizes of frames, your sku matrix goes nuts the more colors you offer. For the kickstarter bikes, it was ALMOST manageable (you all know who you are) and I really wanted to offer a special package to those guys.

    I'm sure I'll retain the ability for a few customs, especially for me/shows, etc. But they will be more expensive and fewer. Just for sanity.

  83. #1383
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Darth Lefty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    502
    I work in a business where we look at a lot of strain figures like that and I'll tell you, the biggest two obstacles to making things optimum are...

    1) number of design cycles. Once you have a figure like that you need to redo the CAD, redo the FEA mesh, redo the analysis, a few times. It's easier in an academic mode than a corporate one

    2) if you really have all the right boundary conditions analyzed. To make something durable it needs to survive not just its normal design loads but also being thrown in a truck, grown ass overweight men doing freestyle BMX stunts, left outdoors for a few years, etc.

  84. #1384
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    Good news on the dropouts, thanks for letting us know.

    I used eMachine shop many years ago to build some trigger wheels for the traction control system on my tube frame twin turbo 1968 "Mustang". The first pair was reasonable like $90 apiece. Six months later I ordered another set for the rear end, same specs, and the price was $180 apiece. Ouch. And they took a few weeks, but overall I was happy with the process other than its always too expensive.
    I was in touch with quite a few shops. I might have a little more leverage than you did. Slightly more quantity and "promotional considerations".

    As for taking a few weeks, 6-8 weeks lead time used to be considered minimum.

    now I have to see the car

  85. #1385
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    Does this mean every frame ordered came with 27.5 (12x142 or 148?) dropouts? My point being if one ordered both 29 and 27.5 dropouts, the 27.5s are already on-hand? Thanks for this update.
    yes. I have you down for every dropout under the sun. But yours hasn't been held up for dropouts. You were just one of the later ones.....but coming up soon. I think I started prepping your frame? or is it partially assembled? Anyway, not too far off.

  86. #1386
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    337
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Some of the frame colors done this year, along with with Hammered Lizard and Purple Haze.

    A couple of new ones getting done, including a chrome, which should be interesting and a custom burnt orange/copper

    vote for your favorite, market research for next batch
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	frame colors s.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	130.2 KB 
ID:	1172044
    Of these, I'm most partial to the maroon, then a dark gunmetal, then a bare silver. Not into white frames. The blue has the misfortune of resembling a similar color used frequently with cheap bikes. Green's a bit niche, but wouldn't stop me from buying the bike.

    My favorite color scheme was actually the two-tone pair from the gent with the great pictures. Blacked out back and links, blue (or red) in the front, and strong, modern graphics (albeit saying Trantrun ).

  87. #1387
    because GIANT
    Reputation: 127.0.0.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2,758
    BB..

    can you show us what colors you can anodize in yer bubbler ?

    I might really want a gold or orange (the short fat middle link at top of shock whatzitcalled)
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  88. #1388
    CTB
    CTB is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,265
    Fun shirt today on Blipshift, though I believe this one pre-dates Brian's time:


  89. #1389
    CTB
    CTB is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,265
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    yes. I have you down for every dropout under the sun.
    That sounds like me.
    But yours hasn't been held up for dropouts. You were just one of the later ones.....
    Also sounds like me.
    Anyway, not too far off.
    Don't pressure yourself. I'm looking out the window at a blizzard, though a hell of a lot less of one than the scare-mongers predicted thus far.

  90. #1390
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dv8zen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    128
    I suppose I learned one reason why Shimano tried to introduce DM RDs.
    Have JensonUSA special event $10 off $75 codes (works on sale prices). Give negative rep to me if you want one.

  91. #1391
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
    I work in a business where we look at a lot of strain figures like that and I'll tell you, the biggest two obstacles to making things optimum are...

    1) number of design cycles. Once you have a figure like that you need to redo the CAD, redo the FEA mesh, redo the analysis, a few times. It's easier in an academic mode than a corporate one

    2) if you really have all the right boundary conditions analyzed. To make something durable it needs to survive not just its normal design loads but also being thrown in a truck, grown ass overweight men doing freestyle BMX stunts, left outdoors for a few years, etc.
    While you are describing a more FEA approach, it was even more true back when we did math by hand. Obviously much fewer data points but excruciating math. My first official race car chassis design part was to redesign the rear bulkhead of our Jaguar XJR-7 race car (similar to what CTB is showing, but that's the earlier XJR-5,,,,there was no 6 for some reason.

    The bulkheads were breaking, ripping the engine mounts out. Car didn't handle so good like that. the designer of the cars had been fired, so it was up to me. I had 12 pages of math on that thing. Controversially chose this new alloy, 7075, when my contemporaries thought is was brittle and would shatter.

    But...they never broke and we won 3 out of our last 7 races. But had already lost the sponsorship to Tom Walkinshaw for the next year.

    Oh ya, my actual point was, sometimes you have to stop designing and start making. If you keep optimizing,, it'll never get made.

    the boundary conditions you mention are true, which is another reason we hide behind the "safety factor". For you non-engineers, no, it's not a way to rate your weed. It's when you calculate the optimal wall thickness and then double it to be sure. Sometimes triple it.

  92. #1392
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    BB..

    can you show us what colors you can anodize in yer bubbler ?

    I might really want a gold or orange (the short fat middle link at top of shock whatzitcalled)
    the problem is that you might have to re-anodize your part. I don't think I will have any spares of those in this batch,

  93. #1393
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TantrumCycles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    Fun shirt today on Blipshift, though I believe this one pre-dates Brian's time:

    yep, that's the 5. The 7 was similar, but with tapered rear pods instead of the batfins on the 5.

    this was our first win, my first win as an engineer in Big Time Motor Racing. Daytona 3 hr finale in '86. My first wife never did like this picture, but I didn't make the trophy girl grab me.....my current wife likes this picture

    New innovative suspension from Tantrum Cycles. Any thoughts...-jagwin-daytona.jpg

  94. #1394
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    70
    I like the maroon?? color top left. The black is ok as well. I like the idea of burnt orange/bronze as that matches what I had painted onto my road bike years ago and I still love the scheme.

  95. #1395
    because GIANT
    Reputation: 127.0.0.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2,758
    Quote Originally Posted by TantrumCycles View Post
    Oh ya, my actual point was, sometimes you have to stop designing and start making. If you keep optimizing,, it'll never get made.
    well, I am glad you timed it exactly right. not too soon, not too late.

    these bikes are fricking sweet riding tenderness, with not a single handing flaw or strangeness. all my chunk is going faster, and hills...just snake right up 'em

    they do as told, better than whatever I wuz riding previously.
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  96. #1396
    keo
    keo is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    37
    I believe I already voted by getting a red and purple bike, but I have to say the hammered lizard looks cool. I am also proud of myself for not asking for another change after seeing it, you are welcome Brian.

Page 14 of 14 FirstFirst ... 41011121314

Similar Threads

  1. Tantrum Cycles Demo locations across the U.S.
    By TantrumCycles in forum All Mountain
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 03-19-2017, 10:40 AM
  2. Tantrum Cycles Kickstarter is ALIVE
    By TantrumCycles in forum All Mountain
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-31-2016, 02:36 PM
  3. New Tantrum Cycles video
    By TantrumCycles in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-03-2016, 08:29 PM
  4. Tantrum Cycles Kickstarter is ALIVE
    By TantrumCycles in forum 27.5
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-03-2016, 11:59 AM
  5. Tantrum Cycles Demo coming up in Aug
    By TantrumCycles in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-02-2016, 07:58 AM

Members who have read this thread: 883

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •