Nevegals dumped me, any advice?
So I'm riding an Ellsworth Epiphany with a Talas 130 up front and a stack of spacers under the bar. I have a Nevegal 2.3 in the front and the 2.1 in the back.
Both crashes were at speed in soft pack taking very mellow turns aggressively when the front tire washed out with absolutely no warning and the next thing I know I'm in the dirt.
Is there any advice out there for me?
My ideas are:
1. O.K. I admit it; both times I was sleep deprived and I'm 39 years old now.
2. The Nevegals have no early warning when there about to wash out. (ie. Maybe you can recomend another sticky pref. ust tread that doesn't suddenly dump you).
3. I'm not weighting my bars enough with the Talas on full extension and the stack under the bars. (ie. Maybe I should take out a few spacers so there's more weight on my front tire as I'll then have more weight forward).
4. It's time to quit technical riding. Sorry, but the confidence level is low after those out of the blue falls.
Let me know,
ps. my weight is 162
Yep I rode the Nevegals last week I found them to be bouncy and they had less
compliant ride than the Tioga Factory Extreme I typically ride. My brother and I rode these Nevegal 2.1 Tomacs with stick E rubber and they actually mesured larger than
my friends nevegal 2.35 wire bead whats up with that? The tires did better running lower
pressure 25 in the rear and 23 upfront using stans. They cornered alright however I felt
they washed out quicker than the Tiogas. Tiogas have more agressive edge knobs and
are lighter. Overall not a bad tire. It got best tread 2 years running from some of the
mags. Not sure what the conditions but I thought it was ok. I am going to
try some Hutchinson Spiders based on this site recomendations.
- tire pressure - many people run high pressures and slide out. For me I would run a (folding) Nevegal or Bluegroove on the front somewhere between 25-30psi.
- weight over the front wheel - you might just be able to shift your weight forward, or might need to look at your bar/stem setup. My Reign X1 came with a low rise bar and damn if it doesn't steer unbelievably well.
Sometimes you just need a different front tire for certain conditions, but balance and pressure are free to try first. Plus in soft conditions the Nevegal can work very well. If you were on hardpack then they aren't great for that.
Technique. Drag your brakes into the turn to keep weight on the front tire to avoid washout. And use the outside berm to bank off. That may mean going slower in the middle of the turn, so enter faster to keep your mid turn speed up.
It takes a lot of attention to ride well, so just slow down more and keep your line good when low energied.
The knobs on the Nevegals are too far apart for that tire to hook up well in sandy or loose dirt. They work quite well in just about all other conditions and excel in wet as well as loose rock type conditions. I use them for nearly all my rides unless I go to Bend where conditions are dry and sandy. Then I learned REAL fast to switch to Hutchinson Pythons (new generation).
I've got Nevegal 2.1's front and rear... first couple of rides the back would slide a bit, but it was pretty controlled. The front has stuck pretty well, and now the back seems more planted also perhaps more 'broken' in... that said i have noticed more squirmyness than usual in sand - more unpredictable ness in the usual wander in sandy conditions and thats riding along straight up and down!
you might in addition to other suggestions - try the old motocross trick of sticking your inside foot out and somewhat forward to be prepared for excessive slippage in a loose condition corner...
if sleep deprived or tired you might be 'off' a bit so you have to be extra vigilant to compensate - don't trust auto pilot mode
Still a child inside...
going for a ride
I went thru a lot of rubber before finally switching to the big M. If you don't mind weigh(nobody should imo), get a set of Minion DHF/R size to your choice, or my favorite all around tire(especially if you don't like washing out with no warning), get the Swampthing, they've saved my skin, literally, more than a few times in the 3 months I've been running them.
Originally Posted by danyiluska
Don't bother with Schwalbes, or IRC, they're horrendous imo. Kendas depends which ones, and what you use them for.
But for good solid, all around ires, try the Maxxis. Some people say they're heavy and hard to climb with, but you'll get used to it.
Hope this helps.
Go with a MAXXIS Minion DHF and Highroller in the rear. It's what I run and have never had any problems with washing out to a point where I couldn't regain control. I ran Nevegals after hearing so much hype about them but after a couple months decided that Maxxis can't be beat for all around trail tires in my areas where trails have a variety of conditions. Also, I have never thought they were that heavy since the highroller on the rear doesn't seem to have bad rolling resistance. Mine have a dh sidewall but I still prefer to pedal them than the high rolling resistance of the nevegals.
Advice I made up off the top of my head
1) Make the fork supple w/ 35mm of sag.
2) Run tire pressure as low as possible while still avoiding pinch flats. Tubeless? You're halfway there. Try 20 psi F 25 psi R tubeless & 32 psi F 38 psi R w/ tubes.
3) Use a 70-90mm stem.
4) Ditch all but one 5mm spacer.
5) Practice sliding your tires at will; F & R. Get a feel for the uniqueness of any given tire before you push it to its limit.
6) Move your seat forward on the rails.
7) Lower your seat 1-2 inches if it's set at a normal height.
8) Put your inside foot out in the turns.
Last edited by Max Cadence; 07-07-2007 at 06:01 PM.
Reason: wrote your when i should have wrote you're
nevegal rear (2.1), weirwolf race (2.35) up front has been a great all around setup for me. Great cornering tire, the weirwolf has never slipped on me, mud or dust.
I love the weirwolfs. After I switched the stock Nevegals, which washed out all the time, I have had no problems. The weirwolfs stick to the ground like glue and have low resistance. Give 'em a shot
conti verticalpros. awsome front tire. the only time it has washed out is on a wet moss covered bridge. they have a ust version
I also suggest Maxxis.
I ride Bootleg Canyon where the soil is very mixxed. We have hard rock outcropings all way to very sandy washes.
Some of the team riders around here are pushing the Kendas, because that is who sponsors them, but I have noticed a lot of locals are switching back to Maxxis, partly because the Kendas don't stick any better but wear way faster. I think the fast wear is also why Kendas are the dear of the LBS'. It allows them to sell more tires.
I have run Kenda and Maxxis tires and a lot of others, but I keep going back to the Maxxis tires in the 60d compounds.
I'm currently running a 2.4 Maxxis Advantage up front and a 2.35 Hansventure on the rear, both in the 60 compounds.
Unfortunatly the Hansveture is not in production anymore, but the 2.35 Minion DHF is a good substitute, just don't let the LBS tell you that the DHF is for front only.
That is Maxxis's primary designation for that tire, but they will tell you it's an excellent fast rolling all conditions rear and they are correct. Another good choice for the rear is a 2.35 Maxxis Highroller.
Maxxis offers these in folding beads that save some weight and if you need tubless, just use Stans with them on tubless rims.
My only wish with Maxxis these days, is that I wish they would come out with dual compounds in the larger ( 2.35 and up ) tire sizes. A 60d center with 50 compound edging knobs would be killer.
Later, Eric, The man who has used countless tires in very bad conditions.
( sharp lava rock and killer 110 plus temps ).
"I thought of that while riding my bike."
Albert Einstein, on the theory of relativity.
Peace and Long Rides...
I found that Nevegals have good grip, but when they go...... they go. Because of this, you can work on your technique all you want (and you should), but that's not going to change the nature of the Nevegal. To me, one of the most important things in a tire is to know just how far you can push it, and it is nice to get a warning when you are near it's limits. That is ultimately what keeps me from crashing, more so than how much grip it actually has.
Originally Posted by YTC
I was using Maxxis Minion DH/f on both tires. I recently put on Michelin DH 24 A/T 2.5's on both and my first Ski hill day on them was amazing. All michelin's are also tubeless ready.
I have found the Nevegals to be quite predicatble, they don't give a warning, but they always seem to let go at the same point. It's been one of my favorite tires. I run 2.5's front and rear with 20-30psi depending on the trail.
Disclaimer: I no longer fix bikes for a living.
National Ski Patroller to feed my winter habit.
I find that riding technique,as in learning to ride a bike helps a great deal..............!
i have a nevigal 2.1 dtc rear with stans and it runs great on the rocky terrain here in PA. even when i ride the hardpack singletrack, i have great traction and predictable break-away. im running my suspension nice and saggy with 28psi in both my front and rear tire.
i was reccomended a blue groove 2.1 dtc front to compliment the nevigal. im very impressed with it as well. it has very similar characteristics as the nevegal: grippy and predictable.
if ur front is sliding, check ur fork setup and then majorly look at your weight distribution.
also, wheels nice and true?
Abington Wheel Wright Freeride Crew
2011 Trek Session 8
2012 Trek Remedy 9
2012 Niner MCR 9
Round vs. square profile.
As I recall the Nevegals are somewhat on the square profile side of the range especially as they wear down in the middle..
Although square profile tires have a higher cornering edge grip before giving up traction, I like round profile for more feel of the traction limits.
Round profile slides or drifts in corners increasingly before giving up all traction. They give feedback to know to slow more in the mid corner.
Square profile give's much less if any feel of slide or drift before breaking loose completely.
And square profile can get strangely hooky and hard to control in narrow deep ruts from erosion, while round profile may drag the tire sides in the same ruts but doesn't get hooky and jumpy.
Have you ever even seen a Nevegal? Attached is a photo of one of mine (I've owned nearly ALL of them from 1.95 to 2.70 on my various bikes). Even with the center knobs worn off they would still be a round profile tire. In fact they're oversize on purpose for that reason (a 2.1 is a 2.3 for any other tire, 2.5 is a 2.7 etc.). Like I said, they wash out in sand/loose dry soil because of the widely spaced MX style knobs. For those conditions you're better off with a tire that has larger, more angulated knobbies like the Maxxis designs. This isn't rocket science.
Originally Posted by derby
PS - You guys should try the downhill forum; I find a lot more useful knowledge there than in the all mtn forum.
Last edited by Gman086; 07-16-2007 at 02:58 AM.