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Thread: MBA shootout

  1. #1
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    MBA shootout

    So, mountain bike action had a good write up on 5 popular long travel trailbikes in the latest issue. Good read...especially because the 575 won!!

    The bikes included were an enduro, 575, reign, gt force, and remedy.
    -It's time to shred some mild to moderate gnar!!

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    Wow....no way. Yeti doesn't advertise. Why the hell would MBA rank the 575 #1? Obviously the Enduro should have won since the rankings are directly proportional to ad dollars. Going by that "logic" the Remedy should have come in 2nd. Isn't there ALWAYS a Trek ad on the front 2 pages? That's a premium spot. Then the Reign should have been 3rd.



    If you can't tell.....I'm being sarcastic.

  3. #3
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    yeah, i was surprised the enduro didnt win for that very reason.
    -It's time to shred some mild to moderate gnar!!

  4. #4
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    MBA - Marketing Biased Analysis = read with a grain of salt or for entertainment purposes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mojojojoaf View Post
    MBA - Marketing Biased Analysis = read with a grain of salt or for entertainment purposes.
    Yes but going by that logic, the Enduro should have won. I don't believe the "ad dollars buys great reviews" theory. This is a perfect example of why. I haven't seen the results but if the 575 won, this shootout is exactly contradictory to the above theory.

    I believe that ANY review should be seen with a bit of skepticism. MBA is one resource of many. You should never take it as truth nor should you ignore it completely.

  6. #6
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    Yeti has been raking in the dollars with their SB-66 I'm sure. They've sold out of how many production runs now? Interesting assortment of bikes though. What I'd really like to see is a comparison of SB-66, Pivot Mach 5.7, Intense Tracer 2, Ibis Mojo HD, and maybe a Santa Cruz Blur LT thrown in for good measure. Now THAT would be a shootout.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaeckerX1 View Post
    Yeti has been raking in the dollars with their SB-66 I'm sure. They've sold out of how many production runs now? Interesting assortment of bikes though. What I'd really like to see is a comparison of SB-66, Pivot Mach 5.7, Intense Tracer 2, Ibis Mojo HD, and maybe a Santa Cruz Blur LT thrown in for good measure. Now THAT would be a shootout.
    That would be a shootout full of bikes that most People have never heard of and wouldn't do them any good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fordolet View Post
    That would be a shootout full of bikes that most People have never heard of and wouldn't do them any good.
    Desire does not always = realistic expectation.
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    MBA sucks.

    Surprised it wasn't a shootout of 29ers.

    Thankfully my 3-year subscription came to an end last month. Good riddance.
    konahonzo

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by fordolet View Post
    That would be a shootout full of bikes that most People have never heard of and wouldn't do them any good.
    Eh?

    MBA has done reviews on all those companies before. Maybe not the exact model but they have done numerous reviews on Yeti, Ibis, Santa Cruz and Intense.....don't know what you mean by no one's heard of them before. The SB-66 is the newest model but I'm sure MBA readers are very familiar with the 575 or ASR. MBA has reviewed the Mojo and the Mojo HD previously. They've also reviewed a ton of Santa Cruz bikes (i.e. Chameleon, Heckler, Bullit, Superlight, all Blur versions, Nomad versions, etc. The Tracer is such a longstanding model.....MBA has reviewed it as well.

    What they haven't done is exactly what fordolet is asking....a shootout of those bikes.

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    I dunno, Crank Brothers advertises in MBA and they freakin hate the Joplin post.

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    Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

    All of these magazines are completely biased towards positive reviews because they must appease their advertisers. Not only that, but if they write a bad review, that's the end of review bikes from that manufacturer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg View Post
    Eh?

    MBA has done reviews on all those companies before. Maybe not the exact model but they have done numerous reviews on Yeti, Ibis, Santa Cruz and Intense.....don't know what you mean by no one's heard of them before. The SB-66 is the newest model but I'm sure MBA readers are very familiar with the 575 or ASR. MBA has reviewed the Mojo and the Mojo HD previously. They've also reviewed a ton of Santa Cruz bikes (i.e. Chameleon, Heckler, Bullit, Superlight, all Blur versions, Nomad versions, etc. The Tracer is such a longstanding model.....MBA has reviewed it as well.

    What they haven't done is exactly what fordolet is asking....a shootout of those bikes.
    You're 100% correct, but I think there is a balance they have to find between the stuff we really want to read, and the stuff that sells the most. I don't think it's in their best profit making interest for them to exclude the mainstream big advertisers from a shootout.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vertr View Post
    Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

    All of these magazines are completely biased towards positive reviews because they must appease their advertisers. Not only that, but if they write a bad review, that's the end of review bikes from that manufacturer.
    Well, considering that many magazines have given bikes and products poor ratings, I will assume you haven't read any of these magazines. Even if all of the tests had good results, that shouldn't be surprising as it's difficult to find a bad bike these days. It all depends on what you're looking for. MBA tests bikes in California and Nevada. Bike tests bikes in Washington and NorCal. Take facts into consideration with their tests, and you can get a lot of good information from them. I don't get the hate for MBA. I've been a subscriber on and off since 1997, and I haven't noticed any inaccurate reviews. I haven't always agreed, but I can almost always see why they say what they say.

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    In that review they said they would not
    recommend the GT. The review on the GT
    was not good.

    Best, John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vertr View Post
    Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

    All of these magazines are completely biased towards positive reviews because they must appease their advertisers. Not only that, but if they write a bad review, that's the end of review bikes from that manufacturer.
    Not

  17. #17
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    Every review has to be taken with a grain of salt, whether it's in a magazine or our own reviews on this website. I take all opinions into consideration but unless I know the tester personally there is no way to tell what their experience is that leads them to their conclusions. I could throw up a review on this site and make myself sound like I'm an authority on all things bicycle and the info would be completely useless. The fact that I'm not influenced by advertising dollars has nothing to do with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg View Post
    Not
    Without providing any reasoning whatsoever, your response is completely worthless.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg View Post
    Not


    Quote Originally Posted by charmon2 View Post
    Every review has to be taken with a grain of salt, whether it's in a magazine or our own reviews on this website. I take all opinions into consideration but unless I know the tester personally there is no way to tell what their experience is that leads them to their conclusions. I could throw up a review on this site and make myself sound like I'm an authority on all things bicycle and the info would be completely useless. The fact that I'm not influenced by advertising dollars has nothing to do with it.
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Vertr View Post
    Without providing any reasoning whatsoever, your response is completely worthless.
    REALLY agreed


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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    In that review they said they would not
    recommend the GT. The review on the GT
    was not good.

    Best, John
    They should have rated the Force 1.0 or said you could buy a Peace 29er and Force 2.0 for the same price of some of the other bikes in the shootout...

    $800 is a big difference.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTB Pilot View Post




    Agreed



    REALLY agreed


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    OMG. Maybe you should read my other responses...my reasoning is explained very clearly.

    I don't know how you could have missed it but here you go

    Yes but going by that logic, the Enduro should have won. I don't believe the "ad dollars buys great reviews" theory. This is a perfect example of why. I haven't seen the results but if the 575 won, this shootout is exactly contradictory to the above theory.

    I believe that ANY review should be seen with a bit of skepticism. MBA is one resource of many. You should never take it as truth nor should you ignore it completely.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vertr View Post
    Without providing any reasoning whatsoever, your response is completely worthless.
    Have you read the other posts or were you too offended that someone might think opposite of what you do? Here's ONE of my responses in the thread. Not hard to find it.....but I guess for you it was

    Yes but going by that logic, the Enduro should have won. I don't believe the "ad dollars buys great reviews" theory. This is a perfect example of why. I haven't seen the results but if the 575 won, this shootout is exactly contradictory to the above theory.

    I believe that ANY review should be seen with a bit of skepticism. MBA is one resource of many. You should never take it as truth nor should you ignore it completely.
    That quote addresses your comment exactly. So sorry that I didn't repeat it for you.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vertr View Post
    Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

    All of these magazines are completely biased towards positive reviews because they must appease their advertisers. Not only that, but if they write a bad review, that's the end of review bikes from that manufacturer.
    Have you ever subscribed to MBA? I have been for 13+ years. I have read plenty of negative reviews. Are there going to be good reviews? Do the # of good reviews outnumber the bad? Of course....but have you considered that the bikes might actually be good? Most bikes nowadays are great. In fact if you read a good review I'm sure that MOST people on MTBR would completely agree. Why? Because bikes are that good.

    It's only when there is a bad review that people say "MBA doesn't know what they're talking about". Try picking up a copy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg View Post
    Have you read the other posts or were you too offended that someone might think opposite of what you do? Here's ONE of my responses in the thread. Not hard to find it.....but I guess for you it was



    That quote addresses your comment exactly. So sorry that I didn't repeat it for you.
    Try harder. Where in my comment did I ever suggest that 'ad dollars buy reviews?' That does not address my comment whatsoever. You cannot create a strawman and and hold me accountable for it. That is null logic.

    I have read MBA on and off for 5 years.

    "Most bikes nowadays are great."

    I sort of agree with this. Much of the problem is that most people are not discerning enough to tell the differences between suspension designs and other bike tech, and are amazed at the basic functions of decent suspension, and as a result, every 'forum review' you read is "wow this is amazing", when in reality there are a multitude of factors not taken into account that make one bike or product superior to another.

    As a result, it is more likely that there is a positive review bias among all mountain bike 'reviews'. However, suggesting that, does not remove accountability from professional mtb journalism organizations to write balanced and unbiased reviews.

    Finally, where did I in anyway suggest that I'm offended? You are the one going around all "OMG" and freaking out.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vertr View Post

    I sort of agree with this. Much of the problem is that most people are not discerning enough to tell the differences between suspension designs and other bike tech, and are amazed at the basic functions of decent suspension, and as a result, every 'forum review' you read is "wow this is amazing", when in reality there are a multitude of factors not taken into account that make one bike or product superior to another.
    Like the fact that 575s that are actually used for all mountain type riding do not have a good reputation for long term reliability.
    They tend to repeatedly break things like swing arms. You won't find that in most reviews from either the commercial or private sectors.
    People that ride the rocks in the desert have issues though. The owners of high end bikes don't like to admit when they've bought a overpriced POS in some cases.
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  26. #26
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    i subscribe to MTBA, Bike and What MTB, and they all criticize companies products, whether they advertise their products or not

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    Try harder. Where in my comment did I ever suggest that 'ad dollars buy reviews?' That does not address my comment whatsoever. You cannot create a strawman and and hold me accountable for it. That is null logic.


    I didn't SUGGEST you said that. But did you not say

    All of these magazines are completely biased towards positive reviews because they must appease their advertisers. Not only that, but if they write a bad review, that's the end of review bikes from that manufacturer.
    I mean c'mon....read between the lines.

    I copied a message addressing basically your same thoughts which is "MBA is biased towards those that advertise". You made a comment about how I provided no basis or reasoning for my opinion. I did...in an earlier thread, preceding your comment. I suggested that you should have read earlier comments. You obviously aren't picking up what I'm putting down eventhough I specifically asked if you bothered to read any of the previous messages.

    And yes, other posters agree with me: That MBA posts negative reviews. You haven't read enough to have the experience of knowing that there are bad reviews. It's as simple as that.

  28. #28
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    Not sure about this particular "Shootout" (will they ever tire of that stale name?), but I'll bet my bike that the issue either includes yet another "How to Bunnyhop" article or is no more than 2 or 3 issues away from one.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericmopar View Post
    The owners of high end bikes don't like to admit when they've bought a overpriced POS in some cases.
    Does any owner of any bike like to admit they have bought a POS? And, I wouldnt call Yeti overpriced...they have a better spec than many of the "big" brands at the 3K price point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg View Post
    I didn't SUGGEST you said that. But did you not say



    I mean c'mon....read between the lines.

    I copied a message addressing basically your same thoughts which is "MBA is biased towards those that advertise". You made a comment about how I provided no basis or reasoning for my opinion. I did...in an earlier thread, preceding your comment. I suggested that you should have read earlier comments. You obviously aren't picking up what I'm putting down eventhough I specifically asked if you bothered to read any of the previous messages.

    And yes, other posters agree with me: That MBA posts negative reviews. You haven't read enough to have the experience of knowing that there are bad reviews. It's as simple as that.
    Arguments are not about reading between the lines. The burden of proof is on the arguer. Mr. "That quote addresses your comment exactly" and "I didn't SUGGEST you said that."

  31. #31
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    More senseless drivel from MBA that will ignore when it comes to picking up the latest mtb rag.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasnavy05 View Post
    Does any owner of any bike like to admit they have bought a POS? And, I wouldnt call Yeti overpriced...they have a better spec than many of the "big" brands at the 3K price point.
    I admit when I've gone wrong on a bike purchase.
    Here's my review of a 2004 Dakar XLT. The same can be said, just about word for word, for a pair of 04 XLTs that belong to two neighbors.
    People told me what would break on the thing before the part's actually broke.
    I think the positive reviews are shills.

    This was my original review. The second one was too soon, when I believed Jamis had made things right. I was so disgusted after a third swingarm and pivot set went out on that POS in 18 months, that I never bothered with another follow up review.
    This is also when I learned not to review things until I used them longer.

    favorite Trail: Bootleg Canyon
    Duration Product Used: 6 months
    Price Paid: $1400.00
    Purchased At: Copelands Sports.
    Strengths: Components for the money...I suppose.
    Weaknesses: 1. The bootom bracket failed in only three months and wouldn't be replaced under warranty.
    2. The chainrings shifted great for about three weeks and then the shift ramps wore off of them causing bad shifting in the front.
    3. The first two problems resulted in my halfing to buy a new Shimano crankset at $ 160.00 after only halving the bike for 3 months ( 500 miles ).
    4. The Hayes brake levers are machined wrong at the clamping area, resulting in the need for excessive torque on the clamping screws to keep the levers in place.
    5. The Manitou Minute fork is stiction prone in dry dusty enviroments like here in Nevada, no matter how much I wipe it down and lube it between rides.
    6. After 6 months of ownership, I have discovered that the "latest greatest braking technology" is going to cost me about $200.00 a year to maintain.
    7. The pivot bearings are not equipped with the proper spacing, so some of them are " pinched " when the pivot screws are tightned. This is causing the bolts at the bottom of the
    "bellcrank" to loosen and sometimes break, because the bellcrank is turning on the spacers inside of it, instead of the sealed bearings at the top of the seatstays.
    8. The wheels suck, they go out of true every ride because of the cheap spokes. If they had used good spokes, the wheels would have been okay.
    9. After all the repairs and upgrades that have been neccessary, I can no longer consider the bike a good value, even the frame has turned out to have problems.
    Similar Products Used: 5 years on Specialized FSRs.
    Bike Setup: Do to component failures its not stock.
    Bottom Line: This is a follow up reveiw.
    This bike shows how untrusworthy magazine reveiws are.
    I only ride XC and have never used more than 4.5 inches of travel ( out of 5 inches ) and yet this bike has been a problem from about week three.
    My initial reveiw was good ( see below ), because at the time, I was only having problems with the chainrings and thought that would be an easy to fix with some high quality rings.
    The local Jamis dealer won't even talk to Jamis about warrantying anything, even though some of the problems (like the Hayes lever prolems ) are manufacturing defects.
    I had a Stumpjumper with 2000 miles on it that was a better all around bike, and more reliable, even though it had V Brakes and only 3.5 inches travel.
    Normaly I would say you are buying a frame with a budget bike, but the Jamis Dakar XLT's frame has some design issues, like the spacing problem with the bushings and bearings. The cartridge bearings at the point where the seatstays attach to the bellcrank don't even turn. The only reason the suspension moves, is because there is a redundent set of composite bearings in the swinglink itself. The cartridge bearings in that location are for all intensive perposes just acting as spacers instead of bearings.
    I've been taking care of my own bikes for years and have never had these kinds of prolems with other bikes I've owned, even with thousands of miles on them.

    Spend a little more and get a good bike from a reputable company like Specialized, GT, Trek ect.
    Value Rating:1Overall Rating:2
    Last edited by Ericmopar; 09-05-2011 at 03:52 AM. Reason: To clarify some things.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by nauc View Post
    i subscribe to MTBA, Bike and What MTB, and they all criticize companies products, whether they advertise their products or not
    I agree. People hate MBA because they review primarily "big" bike brands and not bikes from the smaller guys. Also, they always seem to favorably review bikes from Specialized and Giant, which tend to drive people mad as they can't face the fact that both Giant and Specialized make some nice bikes.

    WMB and the british mags are nice because they give a number rating to their reviews. So no matter what they say, if the bike gets a 7/10, you know they liked it but not that much...

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    I agree. People hate MBA because they review primarily "big" bike brands and not bikes from the smaller guys. Also, they always seem to favorably review bikes from Specialized and Giant, which tend to drive people mad as they can't face the fact that both Giant and Specialized make some nice bikes.

    WMB and the british mags are nice because they give a number rating to their reviews. So no matter what they say, if the bike gets a 7/10, you know they liked it but not that much...
    No, I'm pretty sure most hate it because it's a crappy magazine that rehashes the same old drivel every few months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whodaphuck View Post
    No, I'm pretty sure most hate it because it's a crappy magazine that rehashes the same old drivel every few months.
    Like?

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    The problem I find with MBA is that it is focused on what works best for their southern California terrain and for riders that generally prefer xc or trail at most. While I'm mostly an aggressive xc or trail kind of guy (I don't do big drops haha) I'm from the rain forests of BC and what works best here is not what works best in California.
    Bike angry.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Bluth View Post
    The problem I find with MBA is that it is focused on what works best for their southern California terrain and for riders that generally prefer xc or trail at most. While I'm mostly an aggressive xc or trail kind of guy (I don't do big drops haha) I'm from the rain forests of BC and what works best here is not what works best in California.
    Yup, that is why I like DirtRag and liked the old Mountain Bike mag, those guys actually lived right next door!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Bluth View Post
    The problem I find with MBA is that it is focused on what works best for their southern California terrain and for riders that generally prefer xc or trail at most. While I'm mostly an aggressive xc or trail kind of guy (I don't do big drops haha) I'm from the rain forests of BC and what works best here is not what works best in California.
    that because most people ride XC and Trail bikes. look into FR/DH magazines

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Like?
    I couldn't count on both of our fingers and toes how many "How to Bunnyhop" articles I have seen in that rag. Stopped reading it at least 10 years ago...a friend had one @ Whistler last year and I checked it out and guess what was in it?

  40. #40
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    I've had a subscription for two years, and I dont remember seeing a article on hot to bunnyhop. Things are bound to repeat themselves though anyway. I mean how many posts do you see on this forum for "which bike should I buy", "should I use clipless pedals" etc.
    -It's time to shred some mild to moderate gnar!!

  41. #41
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    Way too many. Seems people are too lazy to use or too ignorant about the use of the search function.

  42. #42
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    Just my observations, and yes I read/like MBA. Heinz publications (MBA, Dirt Bike, Motocross Action, et. al.) are consistent if nothing else. Their editor's favorite(s) always get the very best and sometimes illogical reviews (ex. Yamaha YZs over Honda CRs for years despite what everybody knew to be the truth). Better would be more consensus evaluations like Bike for bicycles and Cycle World for motorcycles. Heinz rags usually pass on reviewing a bike that they know they won't like, so yes, most reviews then are predictably favorable. Better would be to occasionally test then rip a POS bike to shreds just for the readership's enjoyment and laughs. But that would hurt the advertisers. That works for Cycle World (read the recent and very funny review of Ape Hanger Bikes).
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    have an 09 Gt Force. While it does not have the big S on the head tube it is a great bike. Much better than the review in MB Action

  44. #44
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    also would be helpful if in their shootouts they leveled the playing field a bit. I think they should all get the same tires, grips, pedals, and saddles. then do the shootout, because most people change those to their own preferences almost immediately. I guess the same could be said for stem and bars as well...where do you draw the line?? What I am getting at though is to not have a review that says we love this bike but the tires suck cause in my eyes that is an easy fix. my lbs would prolly swap em for i picked it up from the shop anyway.
    -It's time to shred some mild to moderate gnar!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasnavy05 View Post
    also would be helpful if in their shootouts they leveled the playing field a bit. I think they should all get the same tires, grips, pedals, and saddles. then do the shootout, because most people change those to their own preferences almost immediately. I guess the same could be said for stem and bars as well...where do you draw the line?? What I am getting at though is to not have a review that says we love this bike but the tires suck cause in my eyes that is an easy fix. my lbs would prolly swap em for i picked it up from the shop anyway.
    better to know which parts might suck vs not. cause at least it gives newbs an idea of what parts they might want to change

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