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  1. #1
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    how to drop some weight

    which components add the most weight to the rig? when you factor in do-it-yourself upgrades, what's the best ease-to-replace:weight-dropped component?

    riding a pretty much stock marin bobcat

  2. #2
    conjoinicorned
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    absolutely no question there: wheelset.

    i shaved just over 4lbs. going from a set of singletracks on XT hubs to a set of XC717's to king hubs, and putting some lighter (AM?!?) tires on.

    the rest of the parts can be measured in grams, not pounds (with exceptions of course! my 3-piece cro-mo DH cranks are probably 2lbs heavier than my hollowtech). the fork used to be a good place to save, but now 6" forks weigh less than my old 5" Z1 so not the biggest savings there.
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  3. #3
    Your bike is incorrigible
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockpharmer
    which components add the most weight to the rig? when you factor in do-it-yourself upgrades, what's the best ease-to-replace:weight-dropped component?

    riding a pretty much stock marin bobcat
    Tires, tires, tires. After that is the wheelset.

    You will feel a big difference between 700gram and 400gram tires because they are rotational weight, but you won't feel a big difference if you switch out your saddle for one that is 100grams lighter. Just be smart and begin with the things that rotate.

  4. #4
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    While this is true, stronger wider rims & tires add a lot of performance to your bike. Rolling resistance makes the most difference as far as the bike feeling sluggish. Get tires that roll pretty well.

    I'd try to save weight off other stuff, but I guess it all depends on your terrain and what you expectations are. Just my 2c
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  5. #5
    conjoinicorned
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    While this is true, stronger wider rims & tires add a lot of performance to your bike.
    yes and no.

    losing the rotational weight adds FAR more performance than the heavier/wider rims will gain you. i abuse the crap out of my "XC" rims and have no problems at all.
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferday
    yes and no.

    losing the rotational weight adds FAR more performance than the heavier/wider rims will gain you. i abuse the crap out of my "XC" rims and have no problems at all.
    Horses for courses. I had 717 for a long time and hated them for Colorado conditions. But I'm sure they would work well in less rocky areas. There seem to be a few people who run them on their AM bike and like them.

    I'm way faster (DH) on my heaver wheel set/faster rolling tires and only a little bit slower on the up than when I had my 717/slower rolling tires. I guess it all depends on what aspect of performance your looking at.

    I'm sure terrain differences explains a lot of differences of opinion when it come to bike parts
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  7. #7
    conjoinicorned
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    i would agree with you, except that my riding (alberta/BC rockies) is AT LEAST as rocky as where you ride.

    i have yet to put on the heavier wheelset even though i kept it for the "bigger" riding days, i much prefer the stiffer and lighter set in all conditions. if i'm riding DH/FR stuff, i take my DH/FR bike which actually deserves the heavier/wider rims. i just happen to believe strongly that saving the rotational weight has made the biggest performance difference on my trail bike. (and the mary bars!!!)

    i don't think it's terrain that causes the difference of opinion, i think it's just a plain difference of opinion. the "AM" category is by far the broadest of all the categories, so there will be a lot more variety of opinion. s'all good
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferday
    i much prefer the stiffer and lighter set in all conditions.
    The lighter setup is stiffer?

    Rotational weight affects acceleration and deceleration, but it's the rolling resistance that dictates your final speed. Kind of like, would you rather pedal 200g octagonal tires or 1000 gram round tires..... Anyway, not trying to argue I'm right and you're wrong, just offering an alternative perspective on where to drop weight.
    Last edited by Steve71; 06-30-2006 at 10:38 AM.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  9. #9
    Chillaxin 'n Chilcotin!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferday
    i don't think it's terrain that causes the difference of opinion, i think it's just a plain difference of opinion.
    I sort of disagree about the terrain. We have a lot of rocks on my local trails. Millions of them in fact. They range in size between 2mm-10mm and the trails are literally covered in them--sometimes up to 3" deep in places if the summer is really dry. Having wide tires is a huge advantage on this pea gravel. In my experience, XC rims (Mavic 217s and 317s) are fine up to a 2.25" tire but things get sketchy when you go bigger. Because I want wider tires, wider rims are very nice to have for our terrain IMO.

    I used to use my 217s for "all mountain" riding back in the day and eventually destroyed the sidewall of the rear (rim brakes). I've been paranoid to ride the 317s on my wife's bike on some of our more technical trails because I don't want to bring her bike home with a taco. The fact that your 717s are holding up for you on rocky terrain makes me consider giving the 317s a little more abuse.

    Edit: Started thinking about it and the rims on my wife's bike are 317s (disk specific) not 517s which were rim brake rims.
    Last edited by kristian; 06-30-2006 at 10:56 AM.

  10. #10
    conjoinicorned
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    steve71: yup, better rims + better hub/spokes + handbuilt = stiffer wheelset. i don't think you are wrong at all, my personal preference is to save a bit of weight and use high grip (which is often poor rolling) tires. i'm gonna guess that you only have one bike (sweet reign BTW) which would justify a heavier wheelset for sure, since your bike might see more "DH" style trails than my AM bike usually sees. i am lucky enough to have a bike for every situation, so i leave the heavy wheels for the FR/DH bikes.

    kristian: i've done repeated 4' drops (tranny of course) as well as a lot of seriously rocky and steep singletrack, the rims are perfect and never go out of true. i run 2.35 front and rear (probably would go bigger but my rear stays barely clear the 2.35) and is enough tire for most riding, i don't see a lot of loose terrian like your gravel, mostly rocky steep stuff.
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  11. #11
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    have absolutely no knowledge of wheelsets and tires. All i know is i want to lighten up my SJ. I am 6' 200lbs and ride AM in all conditions you can think of, except DH in the Rockies. Currently my bike has Mavic XM317 rims with Specialized Stout disc front hub / Shimano M-525 disc rear hub, and DT Swiss 1.8 spokes. I'm running Specialized Pro adrenaline 2.0 tires.
    Are these wheelsets and tires heavy??? I dont see anything about them on weightweenies. Should I just replace parts of the wheelset/ tires or do i need to get all new sets?
    If anyone can make some suggestions, it would be most appreciated

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by d365
    have absolutely no knowledge of wheelsets and tires. All i know is i want to lighten up my SJ. I am 6' 200lbs and ride AM in all conditions you can think of, except DH in the Rockies. Currently my bike has Mavic XM317 rims with Specialized Stout disc front hub / Shimano M-525 disc rear hub, and DT Swiss 1.8 spokes. I'm running Specialized Pro adrenaline 2.0 tires.
    Are these wheelsets and tires heavy??? I dont see anything about them on weightweenies. Should I just replace parts of the wheelset/ tires or do i need to get all new sets?
    If anyone can make some suggestions, it would be most appreciated
    I don't think you're going to be able to save weight by upgrading your current set-up, it looks like you are already on the XC side of things as far as rim choice and tires go.

    I just got a XM321 laced to a Hope Pro II 20mm with a Big Betty GG (2.4) and shaved exactly 2 lbs from my old Rhyno XXL/Abbah/Kujo DH 2.65-DH tube front wheel setup. The difference is huge but I started out really heavy, you're already light and if anything an upgrade (bigger tires/wider rims to handle bigger tires) would mean more weight. Of course it all depends on how/where you ride.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferday
    yes and no.

    losing the rotational weight adds FAR more performance than the heavier/wider rims will gain you. i abuse the crap out of my "XC" rims and have no problems at all.
    Depends a lot on rider weight as well. At 225 lbs I am currently beating a set of 717's into the ground on my Surly, and I do very little jumping over 1.5'. If you are a big guy there are far better places to save weight than the wheelset in my humble opinion.

  14. #14
    Oh, So Interesting!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    While this is true, stronger wider rims & tires add a lot of performance to your bike. Rolling resistance makes the most difference as far as the bike feeling sluggish. Get tires that roll pretty well.

    I'd try to save weight off other stuff, but I guess it all depends on your terrain and what you expectations are. Just my 2c

    Yep, I notice rolling resistance far more than weight, although weight is an issue. I have only one bike, and have F519s, 2.4 Mutanos (way fast), and Kenda 1.2mm hd tubes for 2.35-2.7 tires. Thats 1350 g, and for me its a good compromise for am riding. It makes my heavyish coil-sprung bike very rideable on trails of all kinds.

    I also want a dh wheelset with Mavic 729s, Minion 2.7/2.5, and 2.x mm tubes, that'll weigh 2740g. Thats more than 6 lbs difference for both wheels!!!... and I'm sure it'll make it absolutely suck on uphills.

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    Hey Ferday, Do you want to go for a ride this weekend? PM me with your number if you do. I only have my beater rigid right now, but I will still take it on most of the trails. I would be up for a Nosehill/Bowmont inner city rip.

    P.S. I ordered a Chumba Evo a couple of days ago. It should be here next week sometime.I am just getting parts together. (quick edit) I just got a call from Fed EX. The frame is in. You are welcome to come check it out if you want. I am self clearing it from the states, so hopefully all goes well.

    As far as this thread goes, wheels and tires are the biggest contributors to weight on a mountain bike. Croatiansensation brought up a good point about rider weight.

    I don't know how heavy you are Ferday, but a lighter rider can often get away with a lighter wheelset, which might be the case with you. Another thing is rider ability. A heavier rider that is smooth and can pick a good line, can get away with lighter wheels.
    Last edited by ronny; 06-30-2006 at 12:28 PM.

  16. #16
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    Tires, second that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockpharmer
    which components add the most weight to the rig? when you factor in do-it-yourself upgrades, what's the best ease-to-replace:weight-dropped component?

    riding a pretty much stock marin bobcat
    But watch for super thin sidewalled tires. I have a set of Hutchinson Scorpion Airlites on my Stumpjumper (550g each). I just rode the Downieville gathering this weekend, and had two pinch flats (plus one regular flat). THose thin ass sidewalls have no pinch flat support.

    I had better luck with my last tires, Panaracer Cinders. A bit heavier at 675g, but more support.

  17. #17
    Fort Valley = Gnarl Fest
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockpharmer
    which components add the most weight to the rig? when you factor in do-it-yourself upgrades, what's the best ease-to-replace:weight-dropped component?

    riding a pretty much stock marin bobcat

    check the weight weenie fourm

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockpharmer
    which components add the most weight to the rig? when you factor in do-it-yourself upgrades, what's the best ease-to-replace:weight-dropped component?

    riding a pretty much stock marin bobcat
    On your bike there are two major pigs. One is the already discussed wheelset, the other is your brakes. Mechanicals are about a pound heavier than a solid, lightweight hydraulic set. You can save quite a bit with wheelset as well. Tires and tubes can save you a lot. Bang for buck wise a high quality tube is probably your best investment. You can probably lose a 1/2 a pound by getting a light weight saddle, just make sure it jives with your behind.

    All in all, though, weight is a very silly thing to worry about. We've all been there, some of us have spent thousands of dollars and in the end it is all in the rider. You should spend more time thinking where you can lose weight and riding to do so. You'll gain more by riding than by throwing money at lightweight bling.

    In the end, whatever spins on your bike and is away from the center of rotation is what is going to be the most noticable.

    _MK
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by d365
    have absolutely no knowledge of wheelsets and tires. All i know is i want to lighten up my SJ. I am 6' 200lbs and ride AM in all conditions you can think of, except DH in the Rockies. Currently my bike has Mavic XM317 rims with Specialized Stout disc front hub / Shimano M-525 disc rear hub, and DT Swiss 1.8 spokes. I'm running Specialized Pro adrenaline 2.0 tires.
    Are these wheelsets and tires heavy??? I dont see anything about them on weightweenies. Should I just replace parts of the wheelset/ tires or do i need to get all new sets?
    If anyone can make some suggestions, it would be most appreciated
    Quote Originally Posted by d365
    have absolutely no knowledge of wheelsets and tires. All i know is i want to lighten up my SJ. I am 6' 200lbs and ride AM in all conditions you can think of, except DH in the Rockies. Currently my bike has Mavic XM317 rims with Specialized Stout disc front hub / Shimano M-525 disc rear hub, and DT Swiss 1.8 spokes. I'm running Specialized Pro adrenaline 2.0 tires.
    Are these wheelsets and tires heavy??? I dont see anything about them on weightweenies. Should I just replace parts of the wheelset/ tires or do i need to get all new sets?
    If anyone can make some suggestions, it would be most appreciated
    The only thing wrong with your wheelset is the 525 rear hub, it's around 450g without skewer. The Stout disc hub is around 250g (not needing a skewer). If you compare this to hubs like these:

    • DT Swiss 240S Disc Front - 148g
    • DT Swiss 240S Disc Rear - 266g
    • Hope Pro II 32H/6 bolt Front Hub - 188g
    • Hope Pro II 32H/6 bolt Rear Hub - 295g

    Quite a lot of weight can be saved here, most cost effective being to replace the rear 525 hub by a Hope hub. The rims might be slightly heavier than pure XC-rims, but they are also wider allowing wider tires. I would definitely keep them.

    The tires you have a probably quite light already (500g I think), but they may not be too good as far as rolling resistance goes. Go for general purpose, low-rolling resistance tires, weight is less important. Eg. Schwalbe Nobbic Nic in 2.25. Relative wider tire offers lower rolling resistance in terrain.

    Suggestions for losing weight cost-effectively:
    - foam grips, cheap way to lose 40g
    - Replace rear quick-release skewer by bolt-on skewer -25g
    - XT 11-34 cassette saves 140g compared to LX cassette
    - Selle SLR saddle easily saves 100/175g compared to stock saddle
    - Allow chainrings or XT-crankset and/or replace 44/32/22 by 2ring 36/26 or 34/24 setup.
    - Seatpost, eg Thomson -80g or better

    You can also loose quite some weight on the stem, pedals, handlebars but then you arrive in weight-weenie territory in my opinion.

  20. #20
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    Good advice - hopefully he is still looking since this thread was inactive for close to the past 9 months.,....

    Quote Originally Posted by djska
    The only thing wrong with your wheelset is the 525 rear hub, it's around 450g without skewer. The Stout disc hub is around 250g (not needing a skewer). If you compare this to hubs like these:

    • DT Swiss 240S Disc Front - 148g
    • DT Swiss 240S Disc Rear - 266g
    • Hope Pro II 32H/6 bolt Front Hub - 188g
    • Hope Pro II 32H/6 bolt Rear Hub - 295g

    Quite a lot of weight can be saved here, most cost effective being to replace the rear 525 hub by a Hope hub. The rims might be slightly heavier than pure XC-rims, but they are also wider allowing wider tires. I would definitely keep them.

    The tires you have a probably quite light already (500g I think), but they may not be too good as far as rolling resistance goes. Go for general purpose, low-rolling resistance tires, weight is less important. Eg. Schwalbe Nobbic Nic in 2.25. Relative wider tire offers lower rolling resistance in terrain.

    Suggestions for losing weight cost-effectively:
    - foam grips, cheap way to lose 40g
    - Replace rear quick-release skewer by bolt-on skewer -25g
    - XT 11-34 cassette saves 140g compared to LX cassette
    - Selle SLR saddle easily saves 100/175g compared to stock saddle
    - Allow chainrings or XT-crankset and/or replace 44/32/22 by 2ring 36/26 or 34/24 setup.
    - Seatpost, eg Thomson -80g or better

    You can also loose quite some weight on the stem, pedals, handlebars but then you arrive in weight-weenie territory in my opinion.

  21. #21
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    Doh, what a waste of time :-). I had been searching the forum, had this window open and responded....

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferday
    yes and no.

    losing the rotational weight adds FAR more performance than the heavier/wider rims will gain you. i abuse the crap out of my "XC" rims and have no problems at all.
    Hmmm, I guess it depends on what you are looking for. I like the added stiffness and wider footprint of a wider rim, and it is worth some weight to me. Plus, my old xc rims just did not cut it for me on a 5" travel bike when I started pushing my limits. I went to some heavier and wider rims and I am much happier with the feel, and I never need to worry about truing them. FWIW, both sets of rims were laced to the same hubs, used DT double butted spokes and were built by folks who knew what they were doing. I am around 190 lbs with gear.

    However, sinse this post is about weight, I totaly agree that in terms of noticable weight shaving, rims, tires and tubes are the most noticable. I use superlight tubes and although my tires are in the 700-760g range, I do spent a lot of time researching tires to get the lightest that will work for me. When I went from my old Superlight to a Heckler, the bike got 4 pounds heavier, but I was using the same wheelset, and I did not notice the bike being any harder to pedal. However, the extra 1-1/4 pounds I've added to the rims and tires was noticable. So now I have bigger legs to go with my bigger grin.

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