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  1. #1
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    Hole in chainstay...

    I recently figured out why my shifting was all messed.

    I have a hole in my chainstay, crank side. It is obvious, from the imprint, that my chain did this. I do remember that my chain did get stuck between the crank and chainstay a long while ago. Should my mechanic have caught this? The place where I bought it, won't mention names yet, has lifetime free service, so...

    Luckily I haven't had a major frame failure during a ride.

    I lube before every ride, and inspect as best as possible.

    I need your opinions on whether this is rider error or design flaw.

    Specialized is saying... Won't go there yet, but I am sure you get my drift.

    2002 Specialized Stumpjumper M4

  2. #2
    FishZapper
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    Well, even if your mechanic did catch it, the hole would still be in the frame, so why try to put it on the shop? As the owner, you must assume SOME level of responsibility for looking after the thing. If you knocked a hole in the stay w/ the chain, Id say that's user error, and you'll probably have to pony up for a crash replacement.

  3. #3
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    I didn't intentionally put a hole in the chainstay. I am going to post a picture of it. I just think it is more of a design flaw??

    Thanks for your input.

  4. #4
    lets play
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    can it be repaired? if it's 7000 series aluminum you can weld it. i had my 02 kona stinky welded where it cracked at the bb area ande i've rode the crap out of it w/ no probs.
    it's probably not a design flaw. sounds more like a chainline problem or dirty7 chain or something like that. hpoe you get it resolved ok.
    IF IGNORANCE IS BLISS, I MUST BE THE HAPPIEST PERSON IN THE WORLD!

  5. #5
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    Can't be welded.

    I know I should, but I don't, know all the parts to a rig? I am just a heavy, 240lbs, hard core rider. No incline is steep enough...I hammer.

    It is a puncture, from my chain, not an impact as Specialized, or at least the rep, is saying. You can see how the chain "rubbed" the chainstay.

    The hole, wait for pictures, is about a half inch from the bottom bracket, on the crank/right side of the chainstay. Which, because of my faith in my mechanic, I have overlooked the warpage of the frame until this last Sunday. I have pulled the whole "chainstay assembly" to the right on the crank/"power" side, my rear tire rubs the right chainstay, at this point.

    It is now, shouldn't be, coming clear to me I did this shortly after buying this 2002 Stumpjumper m4. I had brought it in the shop so many times to have the shifting aligned.

    Was it the lack of setting the set screws for my front derailer, that caused "suck-age" between my chainstay and crank.

    This Saturday I am going to the shop to take pics. Tonight is Thursday, so...

    I think you peeps will be surprised?

    I honestly don't feel this is my fault, or at least not $800 my fault???

    I have never crashed my bike!!!! I lube and inspect before rides.

    Wish me luck?!

    Again...Thanks for the replies. I need all input! All I know is the shifting got worse and worse, and someone, years ago, should of caught this? I am fricking anul about my rig, although not like some of you.

  6. #6
    another bozo on the bus
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    set screws wont prevent chain suck. new chains often suck because they are still stiff. also cables stretch over time, parts come out of adjustment all of the time. i would agree that you need to take some responsiblity to care for your machine. a hole just doesnt appear out of nowhere. it takes time. my guess, chain suck occured, you continued to mash on the pedals, tearing the soft, thin walled tubing. of course you can weld it. you can weld everything, but each time that heat is applied, it significantly weakens the structure. i would suggest learning from the experience. eat the $800 and learn to tune your own rig. bicycles need constant adjustment and tuning and you as the owner and user are responsible for that. whatif something went seriously wrong out in the woods? wait for another rider to fix it? your shifting may be out of adjustment b/c the chainstay now flexes, you could have a worn tooth in a chainring or cassette, or freehub body could be getting worn out. i ride a 2002 stinky and just had to replace the entire drive train, only to realize the issue was a skipping freehub body. grrrr.

  7. #7
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    I know how to tune my own rig to a certain extent. The place I bought the bike at offered free lifetime service, so why not have it done by a pro. Point being the bike was maintained very regularly. Also my friends and I help each other out on our bikes.

    I will post pictures.

    I still feel I should not be responsible.

    This might be a horrible analogy, but here goes...

    You buy a new car. Maintain it. At about 15,000 miles the timing chain breaks. Who is responsible?

    There is virtually no way chainsuck will not happen. Why design a bike where the chain can get stuck between the crank and chainstay, and cause a hole.

    I have been riding for years. Have had chain suck and this has never happened.

  8. #8
    another bozo on the bus
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    i think a better analogy would be buy a jeep and drive it "hardcore"; "hammer" off road. something will break. sure, its made for off road, but not everyone abuses thier vehicles the same. so, the oil pan gets blown out by a rock, all oil leaks out and engine freezes after 1 year.(note your bike is 4 years old). is it a design flaw that caused this happened? i mean sure, try to milk specialized for a new frame. many large companies have very liberal warranty policies. your shop will be able to tell you right away if they will warranty or not, but if i were you and they did warrantee, i would sell or trade the frame for something else. i mean, why would you want another frame w/ "design flaws?" everyone wants a big tire a short rear end, which leaves very little chainring clearence. i personally belive every frame has its flaws, so i choose the ones i belive are best suited for me.

    also to answer some of your questions to mechanics and the "quality" of the work they do and what you can do about it, i highly recommend zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance. find it in any book store.

    i too have had poorly designed bikes and parts fail on me, and realized that i need to think about investing in some higher end parts. good luck.
    Last edited by washedup; 06-23-2006 at 04:24 PM.

  9. #9
    Riding a Rig.
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    Quote Originally Posted by washedup
    i think a better analogy would be buy a jeep and drive it "hardcore"; "hammer" off road. something will break. sure, its made for off road, but not everyone abuses thier vehicles the same. so, the oil pan gets blown out by a rock, all oil leaks out and engine freezes after 1 year.(note your bike is 4 years old). is it a design flaw that caused this happened? i mean sure, try to milk specialized for a new frame. many large companies have very liberal warranty policies. your shop will be able to tell you right away if they will warranty or not, but if i were you and they did warrantee, i would sell or trade the frame for something else. i mean, why would you want another frame w/ "design flaws?" everyone wants a big tire a short rear end, which leaves very little chainring clearence. i personally belive every frame has its flaws, so i choose the ones i belive are best suited for me.

    also to answer some of your questions to mechanics and the "quality" of the work they do and what you can do about it, i highly recommend zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance. find it in any book store.

    i too have had poorly designed bikes and parts fail on me, and realized that i need to think about investing in some higher end parts. good luck.
    Thats not a particularly good analogy, but hey lets use it anyway. It would be more liek the driveshaft breaking and putting a hole in the frame.

    Honestly, I think the OP is at fault here. It takes ALOT of effort to rub or rip a hole in a frame. I just don't see how it could happen without you noticing. If you do end up having to buy a new frame, I'd get something more suited to your riding style.
    "Physics is timeless. Marketing and bs never lasts. Thats been proven time and time again."
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  10. #10
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    ..........
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  11. #11
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    Here is one of many.

    I don't know how the hell this happened?
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  12. #12
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    Picture of the front half.

    Still very clean.
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  13. #13
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    Rear half.
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  14. #14
    another bozo on the bus
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    i'm sticking with chain suck and you continued pushing it. looks ripped. take it as a sign . time for an upgrade. you should be happy that you got 4 years out of it. im happy if i get 2 out of a bike. remember this when shopping for your next.

  15. #15
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    Thanks for the input all.

    I still am going to try to get this replaced.

    Do notice all the scratching, on the chain stay, from the chain near the "D" in speacialized.
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    Last edited by TheRealJDAWG; 06-24-2006 at 03:10 PM.

  16. #16
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    chain suck !

  17. #17
    Carpe Noctem
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    I see a couple significant issues here:

    1. First and foremost. You bought a bike from a shop that offered lifetime free service. Did you ask what that service involves? The vast majority of shops that provide this service aren't actually going to do much more than check the wheels are true, check the shifting and check the braking. You could blame the shop but part of the blame is probably yours for not being the informed consumer.

    2. You're 240lbs bombing any incline you can find on a cross country hardtail. That's a lot of load on some skinny little aluminum tubes.

    3. The photos do not provide enough evidence. Chain suck doesn't just happen, it's not some mysterious unexplained phenomenon. With few exceptions Chain suck is caused by either poor chainline(usually there will be other symptoms before chain suck) or poor match between chain and chainrings. Usually the result of severely worn chain and/or chain rings and made worse by replacing one without replacing the other. The pictures don't show effective chain pitch and although they do show the tooth profiles, they can't show what the tooth profiles should be nor how the ring meshes with the chain.

    The pictures do not provide enough information to definitively determine that chain suck is the problem in part do to the angles and in part because the pictures aren't three dimensional and cannot convey sufficent information.

    Is any of this supposed to help your current conundrum? No, but it might help next time.
    Off season? What off season?

  18. #18
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    In response to numer 2:

    Damn right. They sold this to me. The owner of the store, when i brought the bike in with the hole, said "I don't believe/remeber selling this bike to you.". He is more or less saying **** I sold you the wrong bike?

    In response to number 3:

    With few exceptions Chain suck is caused by either poor chainline(usually there will be other symptoms before chain suck) or poor match between chain and chainrings. Usually the result of severely worn chain and/or chain rings and made worse by replacing one without replacing the other.

    I bought this bike brand new, need not mentioning. Don't you think, it is the responsibility of the shop, that provides free lifetime service, to make surte everything is aligned and what not?

  19. #19
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    No, It is the responsibillity of the manufacturer to spec compatible components in order to provide adequate chainline, However the manufacturer cannot test every bike for a year or four or ten to make sure that it will continue to work as new when it's not. Furthermore, drivetrains wear out, I go through at least one a year and if you haven't replaced yours after four there's a good chance it's worn pretty bad. Chain rings, cassettes and chains wear at dissimilar rates and eventually they won't mesh properly(see number 3), combine this with a chainline that was just OK with a new drive train and you're asking for trouble. Any good shop will tell you your chain is showing wear before it's too late, that doesn't mean your shop will.

    Free lifetime service is a result of a "quantity before quality" mentality, shared by shops and consumers alike. In order for it to be a profitable endeavor for a shop it must be very topical with a minimal cost in payroll dollars. If the cost of paying a wrench to work on your bike for the life time of the bike ever exceeds the marginal profit they made on selling the bike then the shop is losing money, In a smart shop they would stress checking disposable parts like brake pads, chains and tires in order to let you know they need replacement as soon as they do. This would allow them to sell you some high margin items, simulatniously offsetting their payroll cost and keeping your bike in top condition thus keeping you happy...albeit a little lighter in the wallet. Why don't they? That's a good question, One common though NOT universal reason is that the same quantity before quality mentallity is often passed on to the mechanic by way of paying or providing insentives based on the number of work orders completed per day/week.

    Think about that for a minute, no matter how good the mechanic some have a very real insentive to finish working on your bike ASAP. Is free lifetime service starting to sound too good to be true? how about the cheapest "basic tune" in town? Some bike shops are good, some are VERY good.

    It is your responsibillity to be the informed consumer and find out what a given service actually includes.
    Off season? What off season?

  20. #20
    another bozo on the bus
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    having wrenched for a few years, our lifetime service policy was to adjust derailers, brakes and headset. we were instructed to never spend more than 10 minutes to do one. also, a bike after repairs or checked over, may feel great in the stand, as in the example with worn drivetrains, may still skip under torque. its hard to simulate conditions off road or steep climbs when you you test ride a bike in the parking lot to trouble shoot mechanical issues.

    another lame example: if the ignition system on your car is "missing" @ 110 mph, it would be hard for a mechanic to test for that.the car feels great driving around the neighborhood. think of an mtb as a hot rod which needs constant tweeking. your bike looks bone stock, so imagine driving a grocery getter like a race car for 4 years. it will wear out.i have come to accept that i need to check over mine almost every ride.

  21. #21
    singlespeed smash brother
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    You had a bike 4 years. Rode the guts out of it and you expect it to last for ever? You are in a sport thats hard on equipment you have to expect it to break and 4 years is a good run. I had an Inbred that snaped a month after the 2 year waranty expired but I knew I rode that thing damn hard and we had a lot of good times. Its time to move on. You can't expect the bike shop to be responsable for this sort of wear and tear. If it happened while they were riding it then you'd have grounds but it's somthing you did so take responsabilaty for your ride. Its an accident and things break. thats life. You had good times but now it's time to replace it and move on and stop heaping scorn and negativity onto the poor bike shop guys who are really just trying to keep you happy.

  22. #22
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    Maybe I have mislead you guys? If you look closely(at the pictures), even though it is a four year old bike, it is next to mint?! Look at it!!!!!! I have a ton of pictures of it. My old Rockhopper, which did, like any other, had chainsuck, never punctured a hole in its chainsaty..

    I have barely riden this rig!!!!!! I have never "bailed" hard!!! Maybe some slow "logging" bails, but an impact to cause a puncture that has a chain imprint!

    I run,swim, lift weights, and occassionally ride!!! Let me put it this way: I have spent no more than 120 hours on it. 20 mile rides probably 15 times.

    Your analogy of 110mph, then I should not of been "advised" to buy an aluminum frame, especially considering what I said above, let alone to bring this bike in time and time again to walk out the door and ride again. It has been a year since I have riden, and since I brought it in. Shall I have all my "riding" friends fill out an affadavit saying I never bailed "hard"?

    "may still skip under torque." Why do you think I brought my rig in so many times. Maybe I didnt make that clear. Earlier I was accussed of not knowing "how to tune my rig", but I kept bringing it in to figure out what the f was wrong.

    Free fricking lifetime service. I was "anul" about bringing the rig in!!!! This should of been "caught" a while ago!!!! Look at the scratching next to the "D" in Specialized.

    I am coming from a place where I: rode my rig, maybe "hard"(maybe should of been sold something else), brought it in regularly, recently found the reason why I was bringing it in regularly, to find that the problem is old???

    At the moment I don't feel this is an eight hundred dollar fault of mine!!!

  23. #23
    another bozo on the bus
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    sucks, but you are not convincing me, nor does it sound like the others on here are placing blame on the shop on specialized. you asked for advice and got it. sorry its not what you want to hear. i was giving you advice from experiece which you dont want to hear. take your bike to the shop and find out specialized's warrantee policy. if that doesnt work, good luck on judge judy.

  24. #24
    Oh, So Interesting!
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    [QUOTE=bambambam]can it be repaired? if it's 7000 series aluminum you can weld it.QUOTE]

    No... most, if not all, 7000 series alum is not weldable, 6000 is...

    Try JB Weld, you'd be surprised what it can do. You could also bond another piece of aluminum onto the chainstay to reinforce it.

    I'd probably JB Weld the hole closed, and bond an aluminum strip to the other side. The strip should go from the bb to well past the hole on the other side.

  25. #25
    Fort Valley = Gnarl Fest
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealJDAWG
    IShould my mechanic have caught this?
    OK lets use our brains here. Its your bike. Does your mechanic look at your bike before every ride? NO, Your mechanic is also not intrusting his life with your bike.

    Its going to take a long time and to wear a hole through the frame with the chain. I'm assuming its from chain slap. Unless the chain was rubbing on the frame when the bike was in normal ridding orientation. In that case it is an design error.

    To prevent this wrap an old tube arount your chain stay on your drive side to prevent chain slap from digging at your frame.

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