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  1. #1
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    Hole in chainstay...

    I recently figured out why my shifting was all messed.

    I have a hole in my chainstay, crank side. It is obvious, from the imprint, that my chain did this. I do remember that my chain did get stuck between the crank and chainstay a long while ago. Should my mechanic have caught this? The place where I bought it, won't mention names yet, has lifetime free service, so...

    Luckily I haven't had a major frame failure during a ride.

    I lube before every ride, and inspect as best as possible.

    I need your opinions on whether this is rider error or design flaw.

    Specialized is saying... Won't go there yet, but I am sure you get my drift.

    2002 Specialized Stumpjumper M4

  2. #2
    FishZapper
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    Well, even if your mechanic did catch it, the hole would still be in the frame, so why try to put it on the shop? As the owner, you must assume SOME level of responsibility for looking after the thing. If you knocked a hole in the stay w/ the chain, Id say that's user error, and you'll probably have to pony up for a crash replacement.

  3. #3
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    I didn't intentionally put a hole in the chainstay. I am going to post a picture of it. I just think it is more of a design flaw??

    Thanks for your input.

  4. #4
    lets play
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    can it be repaired? if it's 7000 series aluminum you can weld it. i had my 02 kona stinky welded where it cracked at the bb area ande i've rode the crap out of it w/ no probs.
    it's probably not a design flaw. sounds more like a chainline problem or dirty7 chain or something like that. hpoe you get it resolved ok.
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  5. #5
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    Can't be welded.

    I know I should, but I don't, know all the parts to a rig? I am just a heavy, 240lbs, hard core rider. No incline is steep enough...I hammer.

    It is a puncture, from my chain, not an impact as Specialized, or at least the rep, is saying. You can see how the chain "rubbed" the chainstay.

    The hole, wait for pictures, is about a half inch from the bottom bracket, on the crank/right side of the chainstay. Which, because of my faith in my mechanic, I have overlooked the warpage of the frame until this last Sunday. I have pulled the whole "chainstay assembly" to the right on the crank/"power" side, my rear tire rubs the right chainstay, at this point.

    It is now, shouldn't be, coming clear to me I did this shortly after buying this 2002 Stumpjumper m4. I had brought it in the shop so many times to have the shifting aligned.

    Was it the lack of setting the set screws for my front derailer, that caused "suck-age" between my chainstay and crank.

    This Saturday I am going to the shop to take pics. Tonight is Thursday, so...

    I think you peeps will be surprised?

    I honestly don't feel this is my fault, or at least not $800 my fault???

    I have never crashed my bike!!!! I lube and inspect before rides.

    Wish me luck?!

    Again...Thanks for the replies. I need all input! All I know is the shifting got worse and worse, and someone, years ago, should of caught this? I am fricking anul about my rig, although not like some of you.

  6. #6
    another bozo on the bus
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    set screws wont prevent chain suck. new chains often suck because they are still stiff. also cables stretch over time, parts come out of adjustment all of the time. i would agree that you need to take some responsiblity to care for your machine. a hole just doesnt appear out of nowhere. it takes time. my guess, chain suck occured, you continued to mash on the pedals, tearing the soft, thin walled tubing. of course you can weld it. you can weld everything, but each time that heat is applied, it significantly weakens the structure. i would suggest learning from the experience. eat the $800 and learn to tune your own rig. bicycles need constant adjustment and tuning and you as the owner and user are responsible for that. whatif something went seriously wrong out in the woods? wait for another rider to fix it? your shifting may be out of adjustment b/c the chainstay now flexes, you could have a worn tooth in a chainring or cassette, or freehub body could be getting worn out. i ride a 2002 stinky and just had to replace the entire drive train, only to realize the issue was a skipping freehub body. grrrr.

  7. #7
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    I know how to tune my own rig to a certain extent. The place I bought the bike at offered free lifetime service, so why not have it done by a pro. Point being the bike was maintained very regularly. Also my friends and I help each other out on our bikes.

    I will post pictures.

    I still feel I should not be responsible.

    This might be a horrible analogy, but here goes...

    You buy a new car. Maintain it. At about 15,000 miles the timing chain breaks. Who is responsible?

    There is virtually no way chainsuck will not happen. Why design a bike where the chain can get stuck between the crank and chainstay, and cause a hole.

    I have been riding for years. Have had chain suck and this has never happened.

  8. #8
    another bozo on the bus
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    i think a better analogy would be buy a jeep and drive it "hardcore"; "hammer" off road. something will break. sure, its made for off road, but not everyone abuses thier vehicles the same. so, the oil pan gets blown out by a rock, all oil leaks out and engine freezes after 1 year.(note your bike is 4 years old). is it a design flaw that caused this happened? i mean sure, try to milk specialized for a new frame. many large companies have very liberal warranty policies. your shop will be able to tell you right away if they will warranty or not, but if i were you and they did warrantee, i would sell or trade the frame for something else. i mean, why would you want another frame w/ "design flaws?" everyone wants a big tire a short rear end, which leaves very little chainring clearence. i personally belive every frame has its flaws, so i choose the ones i belive are best suited for me.

    also to answer some of your questions to mechanics and the "quality" of the work they do and what you can do about it, i highly recommend zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance. find it in any book store.

    i too have had poorly designed bikes and parts fail on me, and realized that i need to think about investing in some higher end parts. good luck.
    Last edited by washedup; 06-23-2006 at 04:24 PM.

  9. #9
    Riding a Rig.
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    Quote Originally Posted by washedup
    i think a better analogy would be buy a jeep and drive it "hardcore"; "hammer" off road. something will break. sure, its made for off road, but not everyone abuses thier vehicles the same. so, the oil pan gets blown out by a rock, all oil leaks out and engine freezes after 1 year.(note your bike is 4 years old). is it a design flaw that caused this happened? i mean sure, try to milk specialized for a new frame. many large companies have very liberal warranty policies. your shop will be able to tell you right away if they will warranty or not, but if i were you and they did warrantee, i would sell or trade the frame for something else. i mean, why would you want another frame w/ "design flaws?" everyone wants a big tire a short rear end, which leaves very little chainring clearence. i personally belive every frame has its flaws, so i choose the ones i belive are best suited for me.

    also to answer some of your questions to mechanics and the "quality" of the work they do and what you can do about it, i highly recommend zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance. find it in any book store.

    i too have had poorly designed bikes and parts fail on me, and realized that i need to think about investing in some higher end parts. good luck.
    Thats not a particularly good analogy, but hey lets use it anyway. It would be more liek the driveshaft breaking and putting a hole in the frame.

    Honestly, I think the OP is at fault here. It takes ALOT of effort to rub or rip a hole in a frame. I just don't see how it could happen without you noticing. If you do end up having to buy a new frame, I'd get something more suited to your riding style.
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  10. #10
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    ..........
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  11. #11
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    Here is one of many.

    I don't know how the hell this happened?
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  12. #12
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    Picture of the front half.

    Still very clean.
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  13. #13
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    Rear half.
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  14. #14
    another bozo on the bus
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    i'm sticking with chain suck and you continued pushing it. looks ripped. take it as a sign . time for an upgrade. you should be happy that you got 4 years out of it. im happy if i get 2 out of a bike. remember this when shopping for your next.

  15. #15
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    Thanks for the input all.

    I still am going to try to get this replaced.

    Do notice all the scratching, on the chain stay, from the chain near the "D" in speacialized.
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  16. #16
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    chain suck !

  17. #17
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    I see a couple significant issues here:

    1. First and foremost. You bought a bike from a shop that offered lifetime free service. Did you ask what that service involves? The vast majority of shops that provide this service aren't actually going to do much more than check the wheels are true, check the shifting and check the braking. You could blame the shop but part of the blame is probably yours for not being the informed consumer.

    2. You're 240lbs bombing any incline you can find on a cross country hardtail. That's a lot of load on some skinny little aluminum tubes.

    3. The photos do not provide enough evidence. Chain suck doesn't just happen, it's not some mysterious unexplained phenomenon. With few exceptions Chain suck is caused by either poor chainline(usually there will be other symptoms before chain suck) or poor match between chain and chainrings. Usually the result of severely worn chain and/or chain rings and made worse by replacing one without replacing the other. The pictures don't show effective chain pitch and although they do show the tooth profiles, they can't show what the tooth profiles should be nor how the ring meshes with the chain.

    The pictures do not provide enough information to definitively determine that chain suck is the problem in part do to the angles and in part because the pictures aren't three dimensional and cannot convey sufficent information.

    Is any of this supposed to help your current conundrum? No, but it might help next time.
    Off season? What off season?

  18. #18
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    In response to numer 2:

    Damn right. They sold this to me. The owner of the store, when i brought the bike in with the hole, said "I don't believe/remeber selling this bike to you.". He is more or less saying **** I sold you the wrong bike?

    In response to number 3:

    With few exceptions Chain suck is caused by either poor chainline(usually there will be other symptoms before chain suck) or poor match between chain and chainrings. Usually the result of severely worn chain and/or chain rings and made worse by replacing one without replacing the other.

    I bought this bike brand new, need not mentioning. Don't you think, it is the responsibility of the shop, that provides free lifetime service, to make surte everything is aligned and what not?

  19. #19
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    No, It is the responsibillity of the manufacturer to spec compatible components in order to provide adequate chainline, However the manufacturer cannot test every bike for a year or four or ten to make sure that it will continue to work as new when it's not. Furthermore, drivetrains wear out, I go through at least one a year and if you haven't replaced yours after four there's a good chance it's worn pretty bad. Chain rings, cassettes and chains wear at dissimilar rates and eventually they won't mesh properly(see number 3), combine this with a chainline that was just OK with a new drive train and you're asking for trouble. Any good shop will tell you your chain is showing wear before it's too late, that doesn't mean your shop will.

    Free lifetime service is a result of a "quantity before quality" mentality, shared by shops and consumers alike. In order for it to be a profitable endeavor for a shop it must be very topical with a minimal cost in payroll dollars. If the cost of paying a wrench to work on your bike for the life time of the bike ever exceeds the marginal profit they made on selling the bike then the shop is losing money, In a smart shop they would stress checking disposable parts like brake pads, chains and tires in order to let you know they need replacement as soon as they do. This would allow them to sell you some high margin items, simulatniously offsetting their payroll cost and keeping your bike in top condition thus keeping you happy...albeit a little lighter in the wallet. Why don't they? That's a good question, One common though NOT universal reason is that the same quantity before quality mentallity is often passed on to the mechanic by way of paying or providing insentives based on the number of work orders completed per day/week.

    Think about that for a minute, no matter how good the mechanic some have a very real insentive to finish working on your bike ASAP. Is free lifetime service starting to sound too good to be true? how about the cheapest "basic tune" in town? Some bike shops are good, some are VERY good.

    It is your responsibillity to be the informed consumer and find out what a given service actually includes.
    Off season? What off season?

  20. #20
    another bozo on the bus
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    having wrenched for a few years, our lifetime service policy was to adjust derailers, brakes and headset. we were instructed to never spend more than 10 minutes to do one. also, a bike after repairs or checked over, may feel great in the stand, as in the example with worn drivetrains, may still skip under torque. its hard to simulate conditions off road or steep climbs when you you test ride a bike in the parking lot to trouble shoot mechanical issues.

    another lame example: if the ignition system on your car is "missing" @ 110 mph, it would be hard for a mechanic to test for that.the car feels great driving around the neighborhood. think of an mtb as a hot rod which needs constant tweeking. your bike looks bone stock, so imagine driving a grocery getter like a race car for 4 years. it will wear out.i have come to accept that i need to check over mine almost every ride.

  21. #21
    singlespeed smash brother
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    You had a bike 4 years. Rode the guts out of it and you expect it to last for ever? You are in a sport thats hard on equipment you have to expect it to break and 4 years is a good run. I had an Inbred that snaped a month after the 2 year waranty expired but I knew I rode that thing damn hard and we had a lot of good times. Its time to move on. You can't expect the bike shop to be responsable for this sort of wear and tear. If it happened while they were riding it then you'd have grounds but it's somthing you did so take responsabilaty for your ride. Its an accident and things break. thats life. You had good times but now it's time to replace it and move on and stop heaping scorn and negativity onto the poor bike shop guys who are really just trying to keep you happy.

  22. #22
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    Maybe I have mislead you guys? If you look closely(at the pictures), even though it is a four year old bike, it is next to mint?! Look at it!!!!!! I have a ton of pictures of it. My old Rockhopper, which did, like any other, had chainsuck, never punctured a hole in its chainsaty..

    I have barely riden this rig!!!!!! I have never "bailed" hard!!! Maybe some slow "logging" bails, but an impact to cause a puncture that has a chain imprint!

    I run,swim, lift weights, and occassionally ride!!! Let me put it this way: I have spent no more than 120 hours on it. 20 mile rides probably 15 times.

    Your analogy of 110mph, then I should not of been "advised" to buy an aluminum frame, especially considering what I said above, let alone to bring this bike in time and time again to walk out the door and ride again. It has been a year since I have riden, and since I brought it in. Shall I have all my "riding" friends fill out an affadavit saying I never bailed "hard"?

    "may still skip under torque." Why do you think I brought my rig in so many times. Maybe I didnt make that clear. Earlier I was accussed of not knowing "how to tune my rig", but I kept bringing it in to figure out what the f was wrong.

    Free fricking lifetime service. I was "anul" about bringing the rig in!!!! This should of been "caught" a while ago!!!! Look at the scratching next to the "D" in Specialized.

    I am coming from a place where I: rode my rig, maybe "hard"(maybe should of been sold something else), brought it in regularly, recently found the reason why I was bringing it in regularly, to find that the problem is old???

    At the moment I don't feel this is an eight hundred dollar fault of mine!!!

  23. #23
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    sucks, but you are not convincing me, nor does it sound like the others on here are placing blame on the shop on specialized. you asked for advice and got it. sorry its not what you want to hear. i was giving you advice from experiece which you dont want to hear. take your bike to the shop and find out specialized's warrantee policy. if that doesnt work, good luck on judge judy.

  24. #24
    Oh, So Interesting!
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    [QUOTE=bambambam]can it be repaired? if it's 7000 series aluminum you can weld it.QUOTE]

    No... most, if not all, 7000 series alum is not weldable, 6000 is...

    Try JB Weld, you'd be surprised what it can do. You could also bond another piece of aluminum onto the chainstay to reinforce it.

    I'd probably JB Weld the hole closed, and bond an aluminum strip to the other side. The strip should go from the bb to well past the hole on the other side.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealJDAWG
    IShould my mechanic have caught this?
    OK lets use our brains here. Its your bike. Does your mechanic look at your bike before every ride? NO, Your mechanic is also not intrusting his life with your bike.

    Its going to take a long time and to wear a hole through the frame with the chain. I'm assuming its from chain slap. Unless the chain was rubbing on the frame when the bike was in normal ridding orientation. In that case it is an design error.

    To prevent this wrap an old tube arount your chain stay on your drive side to prevent chain slap from digging at your frame.

  26. #26
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    As a totally impartial view, there's no way this is a "Design" fault. Your chain has clearly come off and wedged itself between the chainstay and chainwheel. Continued pedalling has then caused the puncture. You say you remember this happening once in the distant past. Does this mean the chain rarely comes off or is this a more frequent occurence? From the scratches in that area, it looks like it's happened quite a few times.

    Regarding spotting the hole, I'd say it looks blindingly obvious. Surely you'd notice it pretty quickly so I doubt it's been there very long. Perhaps it wasn't there last time your shop mech looked at it?

    I'd be very surprised if Specialized will take any responsibility for this failure, I wouldn't if I were them! As for the shop, that's slightly less clear. If you've been in there complaining of chain suck on numerous occasions and they've been unable to sort it out, then you have some grounds to blame them. How long has your shifting been a mess and did it suddenly go wrong or was it over a period of time?
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  27. #27
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    i'm confused as to how a hole in that particular location happens from a chain. maybe somebody needs to educate me on what "chain suck" is.

    As it is, I have a similar scratch (not a hole) on my roadie from something like that happening. I was shifting up a climb from my largest cog on my cassette to my granny gear, and I dropped the chain. Like an idiot, I attempted to pedal backwards to put it back on, but it was too late, and the chain ended up folded over and wedged in that spot. I knocked it out by hand.

    Also, a hole in your chainstay does not cause shifting problems by itself. Unless something else is happening that you're not mentioning.

  28. #28
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    Chain Suck

    Contrary to what has been mentioned here about chainsuck....... it is NOT caused by a poor chainline.

    Chainsuck is caused by worn or deformed chainrings..... period. Chain suck gets worse in muddy conditions, or if you try using a new chain with worn chainrings

    Chainsuck is when the chain does not drop off of the bottom of the chainring and starts to wrap on itself.

  29. #29
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    is it just me?

    Ok, avoiding the other issues all together, is it just me or does the downtube look bent just behind the headtube in the front Triangle picture? Is that frame design or is it tweaked?
    "Eagles may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines"

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    Chain Suck

    Contrary to what has been mentioned here about chainsuck....... it is NOT caused by a poor chainline.
    Why is it then, that certain manufacturers' frames suffer way more than others from Chainsuck? (Gary Fisher comes to mind, for me) If the above were true wouldn't all new setups be free of chainsuck for a few hundred miles? Certainly wasn't true for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    Chain Suck

    Chainsuck is caused by worn or deformed chainrings..... period.
    Any of my chainsuck problems seemed to happen while hammering up through technical terrain, in the smallest front chainring, from what seemed to be the chain banging around on the chainstays, not from worn parts. On my new frame, i haven't had any of the chainsuck problems i had with my old fisher. And i moved over the same drivetrain.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtmartin46
    Why is it then, that certain manufacturers' frames suffer way more than others from Chainsuck? (Gary Fisher comes to mind, for me) If the above were true wouldn't all new setups be free of chainsuck for a few hundred miles? Certainly wasn't true for me..
    A lot of people confuse dropping a chain with chain suck. Do a little research. Type chain suck into Google and find some articles. Think about it. Is your chain failing to drop off of the bottom of the chainrings (chain suck) or is it dropping off of the middle or granny onto the bottom bracket (chain drop)



    Quote Originally Posted by dtmartin46
    Any of my chainsuck problems seemed to happen while hammering up through technical terrain, in the smallest front chainring, from what seemed to be the chain banging around on the chainstays, not from worn parts. On my new frame, i haven't had any of the chainsuck problems i had with my old fisher. And i moved over the same drivetrain.
    It sounds like you're talking about dropping the chain.... not chain suck.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    A lot of people confuse dropping a chain with chain suck. Do a little research. Type chain suck into Google and find some articles. Think about it. Is your chain failing to drop off of the bottom of the chainrings (chain suck) or is it dropping off of the middle or granny onto the bottom bracket (chain drop)





    It sounds like you're talking about dropping the chain.... not chain suck.
    Im talking about chainsuck, when the chain finds itself lodged between the driveside chainstay and the front cogs, for whatever reason. i.e. the chain was "sucked" into a wedged position. I experienced this without downshift, almost always while pedaling thru very rouch terrain. I guess my definition is more liberal than the textbook one of the chain not releasing itself from the smallest cog...

    Either way, for me this problem was eliminated when a new frame came along.

  33. #33
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    Bzzzzzt - You lose You can call it what you want.... but you'd still be wrong.

    Your definition is not only more liberal.... it's totally wrong. You can call it flatulism, but it's still a dropped chain. It's difficult to find solutions to a problem when you say it's one thing, but it's not.

    You are describing a dropped chain, not chain suck. You can call it chainsuck all you want, but it is not, and will never be, chainsuck.

    When the chain drops... it can either just lay on the bottom bracket or im may get caught between the chainstay and the smalll front chainring (cogs are on the rear of the bike).

    I'm happy that you solved it with a new bike.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    Bzzzzzt - You lose You can call it what you want.... but you'd still be wrong.

    Your definition is not only more liberal.... it's totally wrong. You can call it flatulism, but it's still a dropped chain. It's difficult to find solutions to a problem when you say it's one thing, but it's not.

    You are describing a dropped chain, not chain suck. You can call it chainsuck all you want, but it is not, and will never be, chainsuck.

    When the chain drops... it can either just lay on the bottom bracket or im may get caught between the chainstay and the smalll front chainring (cogs are on the rear of the bike).

    I'm happy that you solved it with a new bike.
    Well, sweet, thanks for clearing that up, your knowledge MTB vocabulary, mechanics and terminology is definately better than mine (no sarcasm meant), and now i know how wrong i was. So the exact problem i was experiencing (And maybe the original poster's) is a "dropped chain".

    I guess i was just going along with the extremely large crowd of Gary Fisher owners who have experienced the exact same problem as me, and as a group, refer to it as...

    CHAIN SUCK...

    Like you said earlier, do some research, type in "Chain suck, Gary Fisher" I'm one of those 100's of hits you see.

    Sorry for making such an ignorant statement.

  35. #35
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    I honestly was trying to help, even if it didn't seem that way. I'm sorry if it came off wrong.

    This subject comes up pretty often. There's a lot of misinformation floating around and it helps nobody.

    btw... I owned a 2001 Trek Fuel. Chain Drop was one of it's biggest features. It took months to resolve the issue. Every ride, the chain would drop at least 2-3 times. Chain drop, in that case, was caused by.... you guessed it... a poor chainline along with a poorly designed chainstay. My bottom bracket was all scratched up from the chain.

    Chain suck, otoh, is perfect for pulling a superman. You're flying along on a flat stretch... pedaling hard to get a lot of speed. All of sudden, the crank locks (chainsuck) and otb you go... or I go, in that case

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    Bzzzzzt - You lose You can call it what you want.... but you'd still be wrong.

    Your definition is not only more liberal.... it's totally wrong. You can call it flatulism, but it's still a dropped chain. It's difficult to find solutions to a problem when you say it's one thing, but it's not.

    You are describing a dropped chain, not chain suck. You can call it chainsuck all you want, but it is not, and will never be, chainsuck.

    When the chain drops... it can either just lay on the bottom bracket or im may get caught between the chainstay and the smalll front chainring (cogs are on the rear of the bike)...
    Chain suck happens under the BB shell. Chain drop happens above it.
    I have had and seen lots of chain suck over the years and never seen the chain jam inside of the small ring. Almost always the middle ring and stay, occasionally the big ring and stay. If the chain jams behind the small ring and around the spindle that was because of chain drop.

    I do not think the Sugar is any more likely to have chain suck. I do think it is much more
    likely to have the chain jam because of the frame design. Little chance for the chain to release from the ring before it catches in the swingarm.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealJDAWG
    In response to numer 2:

    Damn right. They sold this to me. The owner of the store, when i brought the bike in with the hole, said "I don't believe/remeber selling this bike to you.". He is more or less saying **** I sold you the wrong bike?

    In response to number 3:

    With few exceptions Chain suck is caused by either poor chainline(usually there will be other symptoms before chain suck) or poor match between chain and chainrings. Usually the result of severely worn chain and/or chain rings and made worse by replacing one without replacing the other.

    I bought this bike brand new, need not mentioning. Don't you think, it is the responsibility of the shop, that provides free lifetime service, to make surte everything is aligned and what not?
    I see worn chainrings and lots of chain suck damage. More than could be caused by it happening just a few times.

    Chainline has little or nothing to do with chainsuck. Worn rings, dirty drivetrain, poor shifting technique do. Lack of rider finesse can cause severe damage when the suck does happen.
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  38. #38
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    Chain suck is when the chain doesnt release from the sprocket and instead SUCKS up to it continuing around untill it gets stuck. Whats happened in the picture in my opinion is the chain came off the inner chain ring and wedged between the chainstay and ring, continued pedaling tore the hole. BTW I did the same thing to my bottom bracket shell only my chain broke. as far as warranty I vote no
    My chain broke (after 3 rides) so should sram buy me a new frame? sh*t happens. If it was a design defect then all or most of those bikes would have the same problem. when your bike is making weird noises or not shifting right STOP get off and see whats going on, or keep pedaling and fix it later, you found out which is the wrong choice.

  39. #39
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    well now we all know the difference between chain suck and drop but... the bike doesnt look too well maintained to me rear brake cable loose mud in chainrings etc. itsucks you got a hole in your frame but i dont think its a deaign flaw i wouild guess as a few have mentioned before me that when the chain drops and jams up the best idea is not to try to pedal though it but to stop and look at the problem you may have seen it when you did it just my 2 cents

  40. #40
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    Shiggy is, as usual, dead on. Although I see abundant evidence of chain suck I still don't believe chain suck was the only culprit. If it was, the hole should be closer to the effective diameter of the chainring and not more than the chain pitch(1/2") from that effective diameter.
    Off season? What off season?

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Chain suck happens under the BB shell. Chain drop happens above it.
    I have had and seen lots of chain suck over the years and never seen the chain jam inside of the small ring. Almost always the middle ring and stay, occasionally the big ring and stay. If the chain jams behind the small ring and around the spindle that was because of chain drop.

    I do not think the Sugar is any more likely to have chain suck. I do think it is much more
    likely to have the chain jam because of the frame design. Little chance for the chain to release from the ring before it catches in the swingarm.
    excactly right, although chain suck can turn into chain drop. BTW I have a sugar1 never had chain suck or drop, broke the frame once and the rear swingarm once, decided it was made for lighter riders, now I ride an enduro

  42. #42
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    one more note
    how big is the hole? you can get aluminum solder that melts @ 350-750 degrees and patch it, take it for a couple of "easy" rides and see how it holds up, Google aluminum solder and you'll find several manufacturers, it will cost you around $50 - $75

  43. #43
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    Yep. The chain is steel... the frame aluminum. Steel wins every time

  44. #44
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    It's a 4 year old aluminium frame. It's past it's used by date.

  45. #45
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    Thanks for the input you guys and gals.

    After reading your posts I have come to the conclusion that is was chain drop.

    I really don't remember when this happened, although, I know, I should. But as often as I brought the bike into the shop to have my shifting aligned...

    The bike, except for the damned hole, is next to mint. Yeah, yeah...dirt in the pictures on the bike, there are no gouges, let alone scatches. The bar ends are scratched because they were on my ancient as hell RockHopper.

    Well, I brought the bike immediately when I found the hole, from a ride, a very short one at that, so there is going to be dirt on the frame.

    Like I said in one of my earlier posts I do a lot of other activities, and quite frankly barely ride.

    I feel a little f***** over by the shop.

    The frame is bent. This should of beeen caught a lot earlier. I am going to assume that over time the frame slowly bent. I do weigh 240lbs.

    I really don't think riding in rough terrain and having the chain drop between my middle crank and chainstay, and causing a hole is my fault?

    I am hoping that I am not one of the last people who have had this happen to them. Using time as an excuse. Maybe when this bike first came out, what happened to me did happen to others, and that Specialized kept it hush hush and honored their warranty?

    Sorry for the "choppiness" this post post. I think i over edited this?

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealJDAWG
    .

    I really don't think riding in rough terrain and having the chain drop between my middle crank and chainstay, and causing a hole is my fault?

    I am hoping that I am not one of the last people who have had this happen to them. Using time as an excuse. Maybe when this bike first came out, what happened to me did happen to others, and that Specialized kept it hush hush and honored their warranty?
    If you read all the posts again, you'll clearly see that nobody (except you) thinks this is Specialized's fault!

    Believe it or not, if you ride on rough terrain, occasionally the chain will fall off. The trick is to stop pedalling at this point and not proceed to mash a hole through the chainstay!

    Good luck with your warranty claim - you're going to need it!!
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealJDAWG
    After reading your posts I have come to the conclusion that is was chain drop.

    I really don't remember when this happened, although, I know, I should. But as often as I brought the bike into the shop to have my shifting aligned...

    The bike, except for the damned hole, is next to mint. Yeah, yeah...dirt in the pictures on the bike, there are no gouges, let alone scatches. The bar ends are scratched because they were on my ancient as hell RockHopper.

    Well, I brought the bike immediately when I found the hole, from a ride, a very short one at that, so there is going to be dirt on the frame.

    Like I said in one of my earlier posts I do a lot of other activities, and quite frankly barely ride.

    I feel a little f***** over by the shop.

    The frame is bent. This should of beeen caught a lot earlier. I am going to assume that over time the frame slowly bent. I do weigh 240lbs.

    I really don't think riding in rough terrain and having the chain drop between my middle crank and chainstay, and causing a hole is my fault?

    I am hoping that I am not one of the last people who have had this happen to them. Using time as an excuse. Maybe when this bike first came out, what happened to me did happen to others, and that Specialized kept it hush hush and honored their warranty?

    Sorry for the "choppiness" this post post. I think i over edited this?
    It is a combo of normal wear and tear and possibly rider error.

    Not a design flaw. Not a manufacturing defect. Not a materials defect.

    No warranty frame for you.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealJDAWG
    After reading your posts I have come to the conclusion that is was chain drop.

    I really don't remember when this happened, although, I know, I should. But as often as I brought the bike into the shop to have my shifting aligned...

    The bike, except for the damned hole, is next to mint. Yeah, yeah...dirt in the pictures on the bike, there are no gouges, let alone scatches. The bar ends are scratched because they were on my ancient as hell RockHopper.

    Well, I brought the bike immediately when I found the hole, from a ride, a very short one at that, so there is going to be dirt on the frame.

    Like I said in one of my earlier posts I do a lot of other activities, and quite frankly barely ride.

    I feel a little f***** over by the shop.

    The frame is bent. This should of beeen caught a lot earlier. I am going to assume that over time the frame slowly bent. I do weigh 240lbs.

    I really don't think riding in rough terrain and having the chain drop between my middle crank and chainstay, and causing a hole is my fault?

    I am hoping that I am not one of the last people who have had this happen to them. Using time as an excuse. Maybe when this bike first came out, what happened to me did happen to others, and that Specialized kept it hush hush and honored their warranty?

    Sorry for the "choppiness" this post post. I think i over edited this?

    How did the dhop screw you over? You are just as responsible or mor responsible than them to ttake care of your bike. Specialized is a good company if if there was such a problem with the frame they would have helped you out.

    Had the FD been properly adjusted (again, this is your responsibility) you probably never would have had this problem.

    Suck it up, get a more burley frame what will take your abuse and ride on.
    "Physics is timeless. Marketing and bs never lasts. Thats been proven time and time again."
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  49. #49
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    Yeah dude, I told you in the first post you're not going to get a warranty and that it's nobody's fault but your own. Just get a new ride and be happy this one lasted as long as it did. Aluminum frames dont last forever. Sometimes you just gotta get a new bike. End of story. Pay a little more attention next time and it should last even longer.

  50. #50
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    just tuned in

    I got here late on this one but my first impression of the pictures was "what a filthy bike," how hard would it have been to wash it up before taking pix? A clean bike would have convinced me more about regular maintenance being done. Buy a new frame and happy riding. PS: you'll probably need to find a new local bike shop to deal with, if I were them I'd drop you in a heartbeat. KEEP YOUR BIKE CLEAN AND IT WILL LAST LONGER!
    "I won't sell these for a penny less than $60.00. I'd rather put 'em back on the shelf and keep 'em! "

  51. #51
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    yeah right that bike is mint. there is massive chain damage on that stay. its obvious your shifting and lube habits blow. worn out chainrings and scratches from many chainsuck incidents and i would assume you shift under full power on climbs and rarely if ever buy a new chain. chainsuck is always worn out or dry drivetrains or a combination of the two. thats not a defective frame thats damage from owner neglect and bad shifting.

    oh and while im here wtf does this have to do with all mountain? this is like the poster thread for the beginner forum.
    Divide Bike Bags

  52. #52
    The Mountain Bike Life
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    Man, this is in NO WAY the shops or the manufacturers fault...more bad luck than anything. I can't beleive your blaming the shop...wow...

    Good luck....if I were you I would get a burlier bike next time.

  53. #53
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    has nothign to do with a burlier bike really. It has to do with neglect and taking care of your bike's drivetrain

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by stan4bikes
    I got here late on this one but my first impression of the pictures was "what a filthy bike," how hard would it have been to wash it up before taking pix? A clean bike would have convinced me more about regular maintenance being done. Buy a new frame and happy riding. PS: you'll probably need to find a new local bike shop to deal with, if I were them I'd drop you in a heartbeat. KEEP YOUR BIKE CLEAN AND IT WILL LAST LONGER!

    That's how you define filthy?

    Wow.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb_biker
    has nothign to do with a burlier bike really. It has to do with neglect and taking care of your bike's drivetrain
    The burley comment was nothing to do with this issue...a 240 pound dude should not be riding a lightweight bike like that. (I am 270 and light bikes make me cringe).

  56. #56
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    Also, just for future reference. Silver stems are OUT.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudpuppy
    The burley comment was nothing to do with this issue...a 240 pound dude should not be riding a lightweight bike like that. (I am 270 and light bikes make me cringe).
    Ah that definitly makes more sense in that context.

  58. #58
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    The bike looks filthy. The scratches are typical of chain slap. The HOLE is caused by continuing to pedal once the chain got wedged between the chainring and the stay--you shoulda' stopped pedaling and definitely NOT tried to MASH through it. I see people all the time that mis-shift or drop a chain and continue to pedal hard all the while the drivetrain is making popping-snapping-grinding noises. The drivetrain may have been adjusted just fine but when a 240lb guy starts mashing up a climb that frame is going to flex--it doesn't matter how well adjusted everything was, the flex is going to throw everything off.

    Maybe Spec will be nice and give you a crash replacement. You don't deserve a warranty.

    You might have a beef with the shop for selling such a lite weight XC bike to a 240lb guy (it's even got a radial laced front wheel). But most all shops do cr@p like that--they want to make a sale. They sell kids bikes that are way to big, adults bikes that are way too small, take it out of the box, slap on the pedals, straighten the bars, put it on the floor and sell it.

    You need to look for a bike built up for a clydesdale. Maybe one of the lite-freeride bikes or a DJ frame built up with all-mountain parts (like the old Haro X series). Definitely not any off-the-shelf, out-of-the-box XC rides. Even some of the newer all-mountain bikes will be too light (as many are just XC bikes with longer travel).

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