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  1. #1
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    Help on selecting bike (Pivot Mach 6, Evil Insurgent, Yeti SB6c)

    I currently own the Mach 6 and have been riding it for the past 2.5 years. It's been a really solid bike but I've been getting that itch to look around and wanted to get some opinions from some on the board. My local trails have some moderate downhills, tight switch backs, and short but steep and technical climbs. Also I do travel to CO in the summer to get some back country and bike park riding in. To be honest 6" of travel is more than needed for most of my riding but as bikes have gotten more efficient it's less of an issue. The 6" is very helpful in CO though and I'm trying to stay with one bike.

    Pedaling and climbing efficiency are a must so I'm staying far away from the YT and Specialized horst link designs. I've had VPP before and while it is good I prefer DW (I don't have Ibis dealers in my area).

    My stats: 5'9", 160 geared up, 32" inseam, medium reach....I'm more of a finesse rider that enjoys a playful bike and can accelerate quickly.

  2. #2
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    Turner RFX, a very capable DW link bike.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  3. #3
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    I've heard good things about Turner but they are not well supported in my area.

  4. #4
    how heavy are you ??
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgandrews87 View Post
    I've heard good things about Turner but they are not well supported in my area.
    Pull the trigger on one, test fantastic rigs!

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    What does Marsellus Wallace look like, A BIT*H?

  5. #5
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    I will add it to my list but would still like as much personal feedback on all of the bikes as possible.

    On the Turner website the wheelbase says TBD, does anyone know what it actually is?

  6. #6
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    Based on the list you provided I'd just spend some $$ to bling out the Mach 6, but I get the idea of wanting a fresh ride. The M6 rides pretty well so you don't pay much penalty for the extra travel. So it makes a sweet one-bike-to-rule-them-all quiver.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  7. #7
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    Thanks Vik, I've got the Pivot stacked out pretty well so far and a weight down to 27.75 lbs even with some 2.4 and 2.3 Ardent HRII tires. I should probably keep it but i wanted to get some outside input from others on the forum.

  8. #8
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    If you haven't done so already a custom suspension tune at both ends from Avy Racing could be really nice.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  9. #9
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    I have went ahead and invested in a shockwiz just to see if there was anything extra I could do. I'm running a Fox Float X and have had good results with it really. The only thing I can do that the shockwiz confirmed would be to increase the HSC. IMO the easiest thing to do would be to buy a X2 that way i have 100% control. I do like to be able to use trail mode on the X though to stiffen up the rear a bit for CC rides.

  10. #10
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    I love this bike. Very balanced between uphill and downhill. Despite what lots of manufacturers say, a lot of the enduro/AM bikes are getting very descent orientated, super slack and low, great fun coming down, but not so much on a long ride. The RFX strikes a good balance between most disciplines and just rips. Whatever you get, set aside a few hundred bucks to get some custom tuning for your suspension.


    Help on selecting bike (Pivot Mach 6, Evil Insurgent, Yeti SB6c)-g0011022.jpg
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgandrews87 View Post
    Thanks Vik, I've got the Pivot stacked out pretty well so far and a weight down to 27.75 lbs even with some 2.4 and 2.3 Ardent HRII tires. I should probably keep it but i wanted to get some outside input from others on the forum.
    Post your spec, I'd agree that it might be a better idea to bling out the M6.

    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  12. #12
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    Hey guys here are my specs.

    Raceface SIXc bars (trimmed to 740mm)
    Raceface Next Cranks w/ 30T ring
    Fox Float X (150 psi w/ 3rd token)
    Fox 36 HSC and LSC adjustable
    Rock Shocks Dropper (150mm)
    Raceface Turbine stem (50mm)
    Wheels Mfg. Dual Ceramic PF92 BB for 30mm crank arms
    XT brakes w/ Ice Tech 180mm Front and Rear
    SRAM XO1 11 speed cassett
    XTR rear derailer and shifter
    Lizard Skin Petty lock on grips
    DT Swiss 511 rims w/ 350 36T Hub (30 mm ID)
    Maxis HRII 2.4 front and 2.3 Rear
    WTB Carbon Volt seat

  13. #13
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    You said you weren't sure about VPP anymore, I'd take another look and try to demo a hightower, also instead of the sb6 I'd look for the sb55, for a one bike assuming you don't race enduro the hightower seems like an excelent choise, same if you want to keep a DW why not taking a look at the 429 trail?

    These are all more versatile bikes than a 6" enduro machine!

  14. #14
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    I've had 29ers and even owned original Tallboy LT for several years; they aren't bad bikes but I'm not going back after riding 27.5. Funny thing is I slackened the HT angle, lengthened the fork to 150mm, and a few other things to the original Tallboy LT that made it very similar to the Hightower today.

  15. #15
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    Easy...

    Put an X2 on the M6. Even with the original Float X PUSH'd (which was nice) it could not compare to the X2.

    I'm on a M6, and this will be it's 4th season, I think. I was getting the itch to try something different but instead got an X2. I had some unusual warrantee issues with my Float X and Pivot cut me a very good deal on the X2. Communicated with Chris directly and he had his staff recommend the settings.

    The biggest regret is that I didn't do it sooner. I cannot imagine a rear shock feeling much better. So, now I will be staying with the M6.


    My last rig that overlapped with the M6 was a Tallboy LTc. Very good bike. Eventually broke the frame and got a warrantee which I sold off. Its rare for me to have only one nice bike up and running, but I'm very happy with the Pivot.

  16. #16
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    better yet, put a Push 11-6 on the M6 and get the 36 tuned to match.

  17. #17
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    I don't think you need to tune a 36 given that the HSC and LSC are complete adjustable as is. I've been very happy with the fork though. I'm intrigued by the Push 11-6 but it is WAY to expensive and heavy for my normal trails.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgandrews87 View Post
    I don't think you need to tune a 36 given that the HSC and LSC are complete adjustable as is. I've been very happy with the fork though. I'm intrigued by the Push 11-6 but it is WAY to expensive and heavy for my normal trails.
    Too bad then. The OEM guys are forced to make shocks for something like 110lb to 250lb riders. To do this, they make a lot of compromises. Just because you have "adjustable" damping doesn't mean you can get it tuned for your body weight and achieve the optimum performance. This isn't snake-oil, it's a matter of tuning the oil ports, the shim stacks, the circuits and all aspects for your weight, which allows you to have a lot of low-speed compression damping where the chassis feels very "stiff" and it's difficult to "push down" on the suspension, but in the chunky stuff it will blow off like a dream and get smoother the faster you go. It's having your cake and eating it too, which is something that most OEM suspension can not do. I'd highly advise you to give Push or Avalanche a call. Both of them do not try to steer people towards stuff that won't benefit them, but huge improvements are usually possible. You don't need an 11-6. I have an avy cart and avy tuned monarch+ on my turner and it feels like a goddamn battle axe of a bike in it's ability to level stuff. I have an avy tuned coil shock for it too, which pushes it into the next level. So far beyond OEM that it's not even funny.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Too bad then. The OEM guys are forced to make shocks for something like 110lb to 250lb riders. To do this, they make a lot of compromises. Just because you have "adjustable" damping doesn't mean you can get it tuned for your body weight and achieve the optimum performance. This isn't snake-oil, it's a matter of tuning the oil ports, the shim stacks, the circuits and all aspects for your weight, which allows you to have a lot of low-speed compression damping where the chassis feels very "stiff" and it's difficult to "push down" on the suspension, but in the chunky stuff it will blow off like a dream and get smoother the faster you go. It's having your cake and eating it too, which is something that most OEM suspension can not do. I'd highly advise you to give Push or Avalanche a call. Both of them do not try to steer people towards stuff that won't benefit them, but huge improvements are usually possible. You don't need an 11-6. I have an avy cart and avy tuned monarch+ on my turner and it feels like a goddamn battle axe of a bike in it's ability to level stuff. I have an avy tuned coil shock for it too, which pushes it into the next level. So far beyond OEM that it's not even funny.
    Thanks for that response! I'll give them a call. A lot of good information here!

  20. #20
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    Canfield Balance


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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post
    You said you weren't sure about VPP anymore, I'd take another look and try to demo a hightower, also instead of the sb6 I'd look for the sb55, for a one bike assuming you don't race enduro the hightower seems like an excelent choise, same if you want to keep a DW why not taking a look at the 429 trail?

    These are all more versatile bikes than a 6" enduro machine!
    I disagree, a modern efficient 6" enduro machine is pretty damn versatile these days, more than in years past. Although a few are going a little too far with geometry, there are a lot of good ones out there that are less than 30lbs and will allow you to ride all day, then turn around and hit the bike park the next day. You probably won't win the XC race on them, but in terms of shear terrain you can ride, they are absolutely more versatile.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  22. #22
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    Dave Turner has a very real mental problem when it comes to disclosing wheelbase specs. can't do it. it'll send him into a rage if you push the matter just a little to find out. if you're in that height zone where it could be questionable in deciding to get a small/medium, med. or large, large or xlarge, just size up or down depending on if you want manueverability or stability. to him, all other geo specs. are what matters. wheelbase is just what happens when everything is combined.
    live w/ it

    Quote Originally Posted by tgandrews87 View Post
    I will add it to my list but would still like as much personal feedback on all of the bikes as possible.

    On the Turner website the wheelbase says TBD, does anyone know what it actually is?
    breezy shade

  23. #23
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    One thing that seems to be a big topic not that I'd like to some advice on is the seat tube angle. Does 1 or 2 degree steeper seat tube angle really make that big of a difference in climbing position? The Mach 6 is about 72.5, Yeti around 73.5, and some other are around 74.5. Just using simple trigonometry a 73.5 degree bike only moves you forward .5" and 74.5 only moves you forward .8".

    For those that believe that Pivot has a short reach, once you take into account the seat position the Yeti overs only .5" more of it.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgandrews87 View Post
    One thing that seems to be a big topic not that I'd like to some advice on is the seat tube angle. Does 1 or 2 degree steeper seat tube angle really make that big of a difference in climbing position? The Mach 6 is about 72.5, Yeti around 73.5, and some other are around 74.5. Just using simple trigonometry a 73.5 degree bike only moves you forward .5" and 74.5 only moves you forward .8".

    For thoe that think that Pivot has a short reach, once you take into account the seat position the Yeti overs only .5" more of it.
    saddle fore-aft position is adjustable so SA isn't as critical as Reach measurement.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgandrews87 View Post
    One thing that seems to be a big topic not that I'd like to some advice on is the seat tube angle. Does 1 or 2 degree steeper seat tube angle really make that big of a difference in climbing position? The Mach 6 is about 72.5, Yeti around 73.5, and some other are around 74.5. Just using simple trigonometry a 73.5 degree bike only moves you forward .5" and 74.5 only moves you forward .8".

    For those that believe that Pivot has a short reach, once you take into account the seat position the Yeti overs only .5" more of it.
    Yes, it does matter. I demoed a M6 and could not get the saddle forward enough to fit me. Will you be ok with it? You'll have to try it to know. I have always needed a steeper STA, and it's one of the things that I like about newer bikes.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  26. #26
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    Also, with bent seat tubes, and STs that don't intersect the BB, the effective STA has little bearing on what your actual STA will really be. This makes comparing STAs difficult.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Yes, it does matter. I demoed a M6 and could not get the saddle forward enough to fit me. Will you be ok with it? You'll have to try it to know. I have always needed a steeper STA, and it's one of the things that I like about newer bikes.
    The Mach 6 is the bike I currently own and ride. I'm just looking around to see if there is anything worth moving to based on other peoples experiences. But .5" forward is nearly nothing and easily offset by bumping the seat forward some. I agree that really steep climbs that the position could be better but only a few bikes offer what I would consider a considerable difference on paper. .5" is only 1.27 cm or 12.7mm.....This was one reason i was really considering the switch but this difference is so small it almost looks like marketing for the most part.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Also, with bent seat tubes, and STs that don't intersect the BB, the effective STA has little bearing on what your actual STA will really be. This makes comparing STAs difficult.
    With my inseam the seat is level with the bars when raised so it just becomes simple math using stack height from the BB. If you have long legs then yes the figures begin to run away more.
    Last edited by tgandrews87; 2 Days Ago at 04:01 PM.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    if you're in that height zone where it could be questionable in deciding to get a small/medium, med. or large, large or xlarge, just size up or down depending on if you want manueverability or stability.
    I remember back in the 90s when we used to do this.

    Now, with modern size large bikes not having goofy long headtubes, inset/zero stack headsets, having decent standover height for even bigger frames, with dropper posts, and short stems, you don't take a huge hit by upsizing when "in between", if anything, you avoid being cramped on the bike during any kind of long/not-downhill riding, with little to any real hit otherwise. The only time I go by that "always downsize" mantra is when considering a downhill-only bike. Otherwise, most people are better served with the slightly larger bike IME, as the smaller bike is going to be less optimal most of the time and upsizing it with a longer stem and seatpost/setback is not as optimal as simply using an even shorter stem.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgandrews87 View Post

    On the Turner website the wheelbase says TBD, does anyone know what it actually is?
    It's 3-bikes back right now in a pile, so I can't quite get to it right now.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  31. #31
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    you didn't mention wheelbase. do you consider them as irrelevant as Turner does?
    breezy shade

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    you didn't mention wheelbase. do you consider them as irrelevant as Turner does?
    I'm not sure if that was directed at me but yes WB is important. I'd like to stay under 46.5" so that I at least have a shot at some of these tight switchbacks in my area. The Pivot is 45 and it has been pretty nice on the tight turns. The downside though is on the really fast and rough terrain in CO. Bikes like Whyte are out of the running on reach and WB alone though.

  33. #33
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    I've got an sb6 and prefer the geo to the pivot Mach series bikes as I found the pivots a bit cramped and put my arse over the rear wheel which hampered climbing.
    The newer geo on the latest gen bikes is a big improvement for me in every way.
    I've got a mondraker and really like the forward geometry concept, I find it helps with both climbing and maneuverability which may be contrary to what most people may assume based on paper stats.
    Everyone's riding styles and wants are different but don't write off a long bike without trying one. I recently spent a day on a mojo geometron and was totally blown away by it, and that was riding up and down and probably more mellow trails than the bike is really aimed at. Despite its length I could hustle it round steep and tight corners just as well as my sb6 and switchblade. Still get a bit of a buzz just thinking about that bike..........

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigglet13 View Post
    I've got an sb6 and prefer the geo to the pivot Mach series bikes as I found the pivots a bit cramped and put my arse over the rear wheel which hampered climbing.
    The newer geo on the latest gen bikes is a big improvement for me in every way.
    I've got a mondraker and really like the forward geometry concept, I find it helps with both climbing and maneuverability which may be contrary to what most people may assume based on paper stats.
    Everyone's riding styles and wants are different but don't write off a long bike without trying one. I recently spent a day on a mojo geometron and was totally blown away by it, and that was riding up and down and probably more mellow trails than the bike is really aimed at. Despite its length I could hustle it round steep and tight corners just as well as my sb6 and switchblade. Still get a bit of a buzz just thinking about that bike..........
    An SB6 and Switchblade...nice stable of bikes!

  35. #35
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    The new M6s use a new/updated triangle, have you checked to see if you could just upgrade yours to the new rear triangle?(Didn't notice what year yours was). When I bought mine back in March the salesman mentioned that he has an older M6 and the ride, especially pedaling, was significantly improved with the new design.

    I'm 5'10 175 32 inseam and felt the cockpit was a great fit. A lot of the reviews I found said it was cramped, but for my medium reach it was a fantastic fit both from a comfort and balance perspective. Stand-over height was a bit on the tall side for me, but once I'm in the saddle it sits down a good amount with the rear sag. Like you, I probably wont need all 6" of travel, but its nice to have for those few times a year I get on bigger trails and with the dw design/fox evolve combo it climbs and pedals great for what I do. Certainly not racing great, but by no means a dog.

  36. #36
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    no, it wasn't
    hopefully, if you get another bike, you'll end up being alot happier w/ it. the one you have now is pretty darn nice

    Quote Originally Posted by tgandrews87 View Post
    I'm not sure if that was directed at me but yes WB is important. I'd like to stay under 46.5" so that I at least have a shot at some of these tight switchbacks in my area. The Pivot is 45 and it has been pretty nice on the tight turns. The downside though is on the really fast and rough terrain in CO. Bikes like Whyte are out of the running on reach and WB alone though.
    breezy shade

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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    no, it wasn't
    hopefully, if you get another bike, you'll end up being alot happier w/ it. the one you have now is pretty darn nice
    To be fair I'm not unhappy with it but sometime you get that itch and either go for it or get talked off the ledge.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgandrews87 View Post
    To be fair I'm not unhappy with it but sometime you get that itch and either go for it or get talked off the ledge.
    Widen your bars and get an X2.

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    [QUOTE=tgandrews87;13138972]An SB6 and Switchblade...nice stable of bikes![/QUOTE

    Cheers. I live in a tin shack and feed my wife and kids nothing but porridge. It's amazing how many shiny bikes you can accumulate if you prioritise accordingly!

    On a slightly more serious note, the Yeti hardly gets used since getting the switchblade as that is a much more versatile bike for my typical terrain. I doesn't give up that much on the downs (push tuned bouncy bits) but is a lot quicker cross country due to the wagon wheels. I demo'd a firebird and really liked that, preferred it to the SB6 from a descending point of view but didn't do enough climbing on it to compare it properly in that regard. You'll never get talked off the ledge by me. Keep the M6 and buy something new

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Widen your bars and get an X2.
    Widening the bars in my area is a death sentence with all the narrow gaps and trees. I am looking to the X2 or a Push tune on the X.

  41. #41
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    [QUOTE=Pigglet13;13139637]
    Quote Originally Posted by tgandrews87 View Post
    An SB6 and Switchblade...nice stable of bikes![/QUOTE

    Cheers. I live in a tin shack and feed my wife and kids nothing but porridge. It's amazing how many shiny bikes you can accumulate if you prioritise accordingly!

    On a slightly more serious note, the Yeti hardly gets used since getting the switchblade as that is a much more versatile bike for my typical terrain. I doesn't give up that much on the downs (push tuned bouncy bits) but is a lot quicker cross country due to the wagon wheels. I demo'd a firebird and really liked that, preferred it to the SB6 from a descending point of view but didn't do enough climbing on it to compare it properly in that regard. You'll never get talked off the ledge by me. Keep the M6 and buy something new
    Haha, that's awesome and thanks for the feedback on the switchblade. I'd prefer to stay with 27.5 but if I had to pick a 29er that be the one.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgandrews87 View Post

    On the Turner website the wheelbase says TBD, does anyone know what it actually is?
    47.25 is what I believe I just measured a few hrs ago (had to get bikes out of the pile to get one ready for a trip). Size L w/170mm Lyrik.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    47.25 is what I believe I just measured a few hrs ago (had to get bikes out of the pile to get one ready for a trip). Size L w/170mm Lyrik.
    Thanks Jayden I appreciate you doing that!

  44. #44
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    I would take a look at the Evil Calling.
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