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  1. #1
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    HECKLER/ ENDURO verse INTENSE 5.5 or Uzzi 5.5 or 2005 ENDURO

    HECKLER/ ENDURO verse INTENSE 5.5 or Uzzi 5.5 or 2005 ENDURO

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    I need advice on what bike to buy I have a 2003 Santa Cruz Heckler with fifth element and Fox Talas RLC I also have a 2003 Specialized enduro with Fox Vanilla RL Front Fork.

    I am considering buying a 2004 Intense 5.5 or 2003 Intense Uzzi SLX with a Fifth Element Or a 2005 Specialized Enduro

    I need to know if you own a 2004 Intense 5.5 or 2003 Intense Uzzi SLX with Fifth Element Or a 2005 Specialized Enduro Before or After owning a 2003 Santa Cruz Heckler or Enduro

    I need to know because I want to get the right bike.
    I live in Upstate New York and ride mostly rocky and rooted cross country and love to climb hills but I look for any opportunity to go down hill the rougher the better.

    So if have own a Heckler or Enduro and now you an Intense 5.5 or Uzzi SLX or 2005 Specialized Enduro can you tell me the difference in the ride and performance?

    Thanks
    Last edited by gsxr907; 11-17-2005 at 09:14 AM.

  2. #2
    V10 Freerider
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    The heckler is bomb proof...
    The Super T you have is really a very good fork. I'd take that fork over a Fox 40 or a Boxer unless i was entering a fashon contest instead of a race

  3. #3
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    Take a look at the intense 6.6 too. It can be built up light around 30-32 lbs and has 6.7 inches of travel.

    -tmoney

  4. #4
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    I had (well still have for about 2 days its on ebay) an enduro expert. Depending on the riding style you have its a good bike. It felt solid and was fun to ride. The low BB killed me and i just hated pedaling the thing. It weighed around 33lbs which is not so bad. Anyways that is my input. Stay away from the enduro if you are a pedaling rider.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marky Mark
    Stay away from the enduro if you are a pedaling rider.
    How does the Enduro pedal so much worse than all the other bikes that are exactly the same?

  6. #6
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    well i guess the legs i got for my enduro were different than the ones everyone else got on the bikes that are the same.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marky Mark
    well i guess the legs i got for my enduro were different than the ones everyone else got on the bikes that are the same.
    That's possible, but I was hoping for a more objective answer. It's a horst link four bar, most four bars (horst or not) pedal exactly the same, given the same shock.

    So what didn't ya like?

  8. #8
    TNC
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    Well, you're kind of limiting your field of input there by requesting exact ownership requirements there. I work at a shop that sells SC and Specialized and ride with buddies who have some of these bikes, and thus have ridden their bikes. I also have a pair of trail Bullits and a 2000 Enduro Big Hit with a bunch of aftermarket suspension mods that make it a 6"front/6" rear bike.

    From your current ownership profile and the type of bikes you're looking at, it appears you're looking for the perfect big hit trail bike. Something not too far over 30 lbs. with as much travel as possible without sacrificing climbing or long, extended trail rides. Today there is not much of a weight difference between 5" trail bikes and 6" trail bikes if you choose properly. I'm wondering if you found your '03 Enduro to be a harsh riding model, at least in the rear suspension...I did. The newer '05 and later models have a much more compliant design along with the extra travel...plus they are still efficient pedalers. I've been where you live, and you have to some decent braking occasionally on your decents, don't you? This is where a bike with some anti-squat characteristics may be advantageous. Models like the Enduro and Uzzi may have a slight edge here, but I think an SLX is a little heavy compared to its competitors. Both are great Horst link designs. Braking control over rocks and roots will probably be the best.

    I'm curious why the SC Nomad wasn't in your list. I'm not trying to get on the Nomad bandwagon just for the heck of it, but it is an impressive all-around bike by just about all accounts...and it isn't heavy. The Intense 5.5 is a good bike, but today I would choose the bikes in the 6"+ range. This is where the Nomad would be my choice over a 5.5. You get another inch of travel for almost no weight penalty, and both have the same suspension design.

    Staying with your original selection, however, I would go with the Enduro...even though I'm not too hot on the Progressive 5th Air shock on the bike. I would be tempted to install a DHX Air shock on it later.

  9. #9
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    Thanks for your reply I am glad to see the input, I did not consider the Nomad because I would like to buy a clean used bike and the Nomad is very new and have not seen very many for sale used. I was thinking of the Enduro but was not sure how it would corner in tight "S" turns since the wheel base is so long. I know some bike are a little sluggish and some are very lively like my 03 Enduro unlike Heckler it is super stable but not as lively.

    Thanks

  10. #10
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    I've got an 03 enduro with no plans to replace it. I've also got an uzzi vpx and was very close to getting an slx when they came out but then I rode one. This may be hard to believe but I could descend way faster on the enduro. The slx has about a 15" high bottom bracket which is fine for climbing but makes the thing almost impossible to lay down to what I feel is a good cornering depth. Plus to be honest they flex quite a bit at that pinner little shock link.

    I've got a maverick duc and a slightly longer than stock rp3 on my enduro. The performance with the rp3 over the stock itch switch shock makes that bike pretty much ideal for my tastes. Most of what people complain about with the enduros is the climbing performance and with the stock shock, I kind of agree. A little propedal coupled with a more linear shock on that bike does wonders. It allows more use of the travel but also firms up the climbs, keeping the suspension from compressing a bit at slow speeds.

    I build my bikes primarily for the descents and nothing I've ridden to date matches how good that bike corners. This is due in large part to the low BB everyone complains about. The newer enduros also have this low, centered feel and I really like them. Plus if you get the air sprung ones, they're still pretty light. I would own one but my 03 weighs 27lbs and that's pretty difficult to achieve with the new ones.

    As far as the intense bikes go, the suspension is a better design than the specialized bikes both in descents and the climbs. There is no uzzi 5.5, it's called just the 5.5. They also make a 6.6 which I hope to actually get a chance to ride one day becuase if it behaves like my uzzi, I might have to start looking at that one as well.

    Hecklers are nice and burly, but they sit too high for my tastes and they've got that awsome design that absolutely requires some sort of progressive shock to make it feel right......which is possible with the shocks they come with.

    So I'd reccommend the newer enduro or trying to get ahold of one of the 6.6 intense bikes to try out.

    my 2 cents

  11. #11
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    I usually don't reply to suggestions for bikes, but couldn't resist this one, considering my familiarity with the bikes in question.

    I had an early Heckler (2002) with 5th Element Coil and Vanilla RLC. It bombed downhill great, but was a bit heavy for my tastes. I had it built up "economically" at 31.1 pounds. My experience with the 5th Element wasn't the best, I blew the shock in under a year and I'm not a big drop or huck guy, by any means. I always struggled to get the shock dialed in, and don't think I ever was satisfied with my setup (although I definitely tried). I'm just not sold on the whole stable platform thing.

    To be honest, the Heckler was more "DH"-oriented than I was.

    I have been riding a 2004 5.5 with Fox ProPedal and Float RLC130 for a while now, and it's a much better fit for my abilities and trails. Spent a little more on the build, and the 5.5 is 27.8 pounds (which obviously, make a huge difference in my comparison between the two.) The Intense climbs great, and corners awesome (as is a trait of the VPP design).

    On the Heckler, I could ride through the rock gardens faster and with less concern for line choice than on the 5.5 The Intense makes it through the same rock gardens no problem, but isn't quite as plush. I've heard that a DHX coil on the rear is the sweet hop-up for the 5.5.

    Sounds like you might be into a bit gnarlier trails than I am, so perhaps a used Uzzi SLX might be the way to go. Out of the models you listed, though, the Uzzi SLX is in a different category. Way more travel (7.75"). If you're into hucks and drops, and are willing to pay the weight penalty on the climbs, it's probably the best of your choices.

    You've already dismissed the 6.6 and Nomad since they're too new to be had for cheap used, but if you DO go after either of these, be sure to test ride them both; they handle very differently from each other. I had a (short) test ride on both of these bikes at Interbike, and while they seek the same audience, each goes about it differently(geometry and suspension setup).

    Good luck, hope this helps.

    -g (...ridden a few GSXRs in my day....)

    This thread also makes me wonder about the need for an "All Mountain" forum since I wouldn't classify any of the bikes you listed (except the Uzzi) as DH or FR....hmmmm....
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  12. #12
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    I used to have a Heckler and have checked out the others on your list. Personally, I would cross the Uzzi off the list because it is a heavier frame and it sounds like you do a lot more cross country than freeriding. The Intense 5.5 has fairly steep geometry compared to the other bikes on the list and it is a bit twitchy going downhill. The 5.5 climbs well and it is still a good all around bike but not as good coming down as a Enduro or Heckler. The vpp will also require more wrenching than the other bikes because of the design.

    The Heckler is a classic that is custom made for abusive all mountain riding. My Heckler performed well in all situations and has great geometry for going up and coming down hard. Imo, the Heckler blows the 2003 Enduro out of the water for all around performance and the old Enduros were not a bad design. I found that the older style Enduros were way too active in the rear end and I don't like the interupted seat tube. The Heckler has a stronger frame than the older Enduros also.

    The new Enduros on the other hand, are much improved over the older design and are more of a hardcore all mountain bike that can be used for some freeriding. With 6" of travel and the HL, the Enduro eats up rough downhills and is a good technical climber for its weight. The SX is more of a freeride bike than a trailbike though and you might want to look at the regular Enduro models first, as they are still beefy, but better for xc riding.

    One thing you may want to consider is getting a 6" travel fork for your Heckler. A 6" fork up front on the Heckler slacks the geometry a bit and helps with downhill performance. A 6" fork suits the Heckler just fine. You can adjust the travel for climbing on most models now. The newer 5th element and DHX coil give the Heckler 5.7" of travel, so you essentially have a 6 and 6 bike with new shocks front and back. It all depends on how much you like your Heckler and how much money you are willing to spend.

    Good luck.

  13. #13
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    Re: Cornering...

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr907
    Thanks for your reply I am glad to see the input, I did not consider the Nomad because I would like to buy a clean used bike and the Nomad is very new and have not seen very many for sale used. I was thinking of the Enduro but was not sure how it would corner in tight "S" turns since the wheel base is so long. I know some bike are a little sluggish and some are very lively like my 03 Enduro unlike Heckler it is super stable but not as lively.

    Thanks
    I have been very impressed with the cornering ability of my '05 Enduro. I surprised myself on a recent ride where there were a series of switchbacks that normally have caused me to "outrigger" around with my leg out in order to make it. First time on the Enduro I cleaned every switchback clipped in. Maybe it is due to increased skills but I like to think it was the bike, too. Incidentally, I was riding it with the slacker shuttle installed (68.5 degrees).
    "What do I know of You who spoke me into motion? Where have I even stood but along the shore of Your ocean?"

  14. #14
    TNC
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    Gregg, on the AM forum...

    Quote Originally Posted by gregg
    I usually don't reply to suggestions for bikes, but couldn't resist this one, considering my familiarity with the bikes in question.

    I had an early Heckler (2002) with 5th Element Coil and Vanilla RLC. It bombed downhill great, but was a bit heavy for my tastes. I had it built up "economically" at 31.1 pounds. My experience with the 5th Element wasn't the best, I blew the shock in under a year and I'm not a big drop or huck guy, by any means. I always struggled to get the shock dialed in, and don't think I ever was satisfied with my setup (although I definitely tried). I'm just not sold on the whole stable platform thing.

    To be honest, the Heckler was more "DH"-oriented than I was.

    I have been riding a 2004 5.5 with Fox ProPedal and Float RLC130 for a while now, and it's a much better fit for my abilities and trails. Spent a little more on the build, and the 5.5 is 27.8 pounds (which obviously, make a huge difference in my comparison between the two.) The Intense climbs great, and corners awesome (as is a trait of the VPP design).

    On the Heckler, I could ride through the rock gardens faster and with less concern for line choice than on the 5.5 The Intense makes it through the same rock gardens no problem, but isn't quite as plush. I've heard that a DHX coil on the rear is the sweet hop-up for the 5.5.

    Sounds like you might be into a bit gnarlier trails than I am, so perhaps a used Uzzi SLX might be the way to go. Out of the models you listed, though, the Uzzi SLX is in a different category. Way more travel (7.75"). If you're into hucks and drops, and are willing to pay the weight penalty on the climbs, it's probably the best of your choices.

    You've already dismissed the 6.6 and Nomad since they're too new to be had for cheap used, but if you DO go after either of these, be sure to test ride them both; they handle very differently from each other. I had a (short) test ride on both of these bikes at Interbike, and while they seek the same audience, each goes about it differently(geometry and suspension setup).

    Good luck, hope this helps.

    -g (...ridden a few GSXRs in my day....)

    This thread also makes me wonder about the need for an "All Mountain" forum since I wouldn't classify any of the bikes you listed (except the Uzzi) as DH or FR....hmmmm....
    I have wondered the same thing. For people using long travel trail bikes, or basically FR or DH bikes morphed into trail bikes, the DH/FR forum is the only source of real info...except occassionally on the particular "name brand" forum. There are a lot of us who are not huckers or true DH racers, but we ride much of the same kind of equipment for gnarly trail riding. That term, "All Mountain", can get fuzzy too, but I think it is the heavy duty equipment that draws the whole bunch of us to the DH/FR forum.

    Addtionally I think the personality of the board is a draw. It's usually more fun, there's usually more joking/kidding, and there's a spirit of independence without the level of ego sometimes observed on other forums. Don't get me wrong...there's ego among cyclists everywhere. There's just a different type of comraderie on this forum.

    If "All Mountain" means riding relatively bigger hit bikes on something of greater difficulty than basic XC trails, then that would probably apply. However, it seems it could get weird if we tried to qualify too many parameters on some of these categories. Personally I've been wanting a forum along the lines of "Old Men Riding Mountain Bikes"...just kidding...LOL!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregg
    Sounds like you might be into a bit gnarlier trails than I am, so perhaps a used Uzzi SLX might be the way to go. Out of the models you listed, though, the Uzzi SLX is in a different category. Way more travel (7.75"). If you're into hucks and drops, and are willing to pay the weight penalty on the climbs, it's probably the best of your choices.
    ...
    You're confusing the uzzi SLX with the uzzi VPX. The SLX was the 6" (or 7" if you wanted to stress the shock and raise the bb) FSR bike that they don't make anymore. The 7.75" one is the VPX (the one that I have, the VPP version) and it's an entirely different beast.

  16. #16
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    It's probably because all mountain bikes are starting to fill the need of a lot of us that are doing all sorts of riding like technical trails, street, some XC and some DH. A lot of these riders have been waiting for bikes that would not penalize them too much on any of those type of riding and now they are here. This kind of rider is lurking on the DH/FR forum and also on some of the manufacturer forums that have bikes you like. But I agree with you that there seems to be a bit less "snobiness" on the DH/FR than some of the manufacturer forums.

    And if there is ever an "Old Men Riding Mountain Bikes", then I'm in but I'm not gonna quit lurking in the DH/FR cause I like it too much every now and then when one of the "kids" throws in a funny joke that makes me laugh so much and feel young again!

    Cheers.

    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    I have wondered the same thing. For people using long travel trail bikes, or basically FR or DH bikes morphed into trail bikes, the DH/FR forum is the only source of real info...except occassionally on the particular "name brand" forum. There are a lot of us who are not huckers or true DH racers, but we ride much of the same kind of equipment for gnarly trail riding. That term, "All Mountain", can get fuzzy too, but I think it is the heavy duty equipment that draws the whole bunch of us to the DH/FR forum.

    Addtionally I think the personality of the board is a draw. It's usually more fun, there's usually more joking/kidding, and there's a spirit of independence without the level of ego sometimes observed on other forums. Don't get me wrong...there's ego among cyclists everywhere. There's just a different type of comraderie on this forum.

    If "All Mountain" means riding relatively bigger hit bikes on something of greater difficulty than basic XC trails, then that would probably apply. However, it seems it could get weird if we tried to qualify too many parameters on some of these categories. Personally I've been wanting a forum along the lines of "Old Men Riding Mountain Bikes"...just kidding...LOL!

  17. #17
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    no speculation or bullshiat, just the enduro...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    You're confusing the uzzi SLX with the uzzi VPX. The SLX was the 6" (or 7" if you wanted to stress the shock and raise the bb) FSR bike that they don't make anymore. The 7.75" one is the VPX (the one that I have, the VPP version) and it's an entirely different beast.
    Oh, yeah, you're totally right. BIG difference between the SLX and VPX versions!

    I had a friend with an old bright yellow Uzzi SL since way back. He still has it, but doesn't see as much action as his newer rides.

    -g
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregg
    Oh, yeah, you're totally right. BIG difference between the SLX and VPX versions!

    I had a friend with an old bright yellow Uzzi SL since way back. He still has it, but doesn't see as much action as his newer rides.

    -g
    Those old SLs are good bikes. A buddy of mine still rides one.

  20. #20
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    Check out the Cannondale Prophet...you won't b e dissapointed...For a beefier one with a thru-12 in the back check out the Prophet MX

    Tom

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregg
    This thread also makes me wonder about the need for an "All Mountain" forum since I wouldn't classify any of the bikes you listed (except the Uzzi) as DH or FR....hmmmm....
    Well this proves that the idea of an All Mountain board has been bouncing around in Gregg's brain for a while!

  22. #22
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    I love my 05 enduro comp. so far it's all stock and weighs 30.1lbs (it's a small). And it pedals great. Sure, if all i was into was XC then I would want something different, but for those rides in which you climb up only to come down a technical desent with roots, rocks, drop offs, log rides etc it can't be beat.
    This aggression will not stand, man.

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