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  1. #1
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    Giant Reign or TranceX or wait for 650b?

    Currently riding a '11 Reign (6") and although this bike is tons of fun it feels heavy and slow. I know the stock E540/EX500 + Nevegals don't help the situation and I'm in the process of switching wheels/tires. I'be come to a point where I've been contemplating buying a '12 Trance X1 (5")... The main reason I've been thinking of switching is twofold... My previous bike, '08 Stumpy FSR, was awesome! Light, nimble, quick, no fuss... I went with the Reign because I wanted more bike/travel (had a Giant NRS and VT before Stumpy and loyal to Giant). I am now realizing that the Reign is too much bike for me and my trails. I'm not doing 5'+ drops or jumping gaps or "bombing down" trails, especially here in South Fl because 6" is overkill (still fun though).

    How much difference is there between Reign and Trance X? Again 5" travel is the sweet spot for my trails. I'm not interested in 29er bandwagon and I prefer the nimbleness of 26er as I'll eventually get a 650b in 2014 when they perfect it. Besides, I can't afford a comparable 29er for less than $3000 because 29ers are the fad right now.

    Waste of time, money, both? Trance X better? Reign better? Give me.your two cents
    02 Giant NRS
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by guppie View Post
    Again 5" travel is the sweet spot for my trails. I'm not interested in 29er bandwagon and I prefer the nimbleness of 26er as I'll eventually get a 650b in 2014 when they perfect it.
    Your waiting may be already (almost) over: http://forums.mtbr.com/650b/rocky-mo...-a-809096.html
    There are more exciting trail 650b bikes in the pipeline for 2013 that may be of your interest - Norco Sight, Scott Genius, Intense Tracer & Carbine, Turner Burner, Ventana Zeus (available now)

  3. #3
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    I was debating the two bikes in question and went with a Trance based on advice from my local shops. Trails around me (Ontario, Canada) are mostly flat and cross country-ish, lots Tight twisty Singletrack available with roots, rocks and such, but nothing extreme that would make me need 6" travel. I could find it if I wanted to, but for 95% of my riding the trance is a better bike. I love mine '11 X3 and have only changed out the big ring for a bash guard and the stem for a 70mm RaceFace over the 100mm stock Giant one. Had my first ride with the shorter stem and the bike is even quicker handling than before. Buy an X1, you won't be disappointed. You'll likely be able to get a good deal too since they aren't making a 26" trance next yr, only 29er so they will be clearing out this years stock for sure. Good luck

  4. #4
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    in my opinion, 650b is a silly standard. Not as good at rolling as a 29er, not as good at handling as a 26er. Everyone is so obsessed with low rolling resistance on big wheels lately, but they forget to take into account the higher lateral wheel flex, higher moment of inertia (think gyroscope effect), more rotational mass to spin, etc. With 650b, those negatives will cancel out any marginal increase in rolling efficiency. It's like the 15mm qr axle. The 20 is better in pretty much every way, and only a few grams more in weight. But they came out with the 15mm and shoehorned it into its current place. Now we have all sorts of 'standards, hub types, fork types, etc to sort through. You get my point: it isn't of enough benefit to justify itself. So don't wait for 650b.

    I have a Reign and it is an incredibly capable bike. It rides up just as well as the Trance (honestly it does, I've ridden both), and it descends a whole lot better. True, that extra inch of travel isn't always needed for certain things, but having it there doesn't affect the overall performance of the bike in the least. It's still an AM bike, not a freerider. But that extra inch sure is nice to have when you do need it. The Trance is a great bike, but for versatility's sake, I'd go with the Reign. I did, and I haven't regretted that choice once in 3 years of riding it.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Your waiting may be already (almost) over: http://forums.mtbr.com/650b/rocky-mo...-a-809096.html
    There are more exciting trail 650b bikes in the pipeline for 2013 that may be of your interest - Norco Sight, Scott Genius, Intense Tracer & Carbine, Turner Burner, Ventana Zeus (available now)
    The Intense Tracer 275 650b looks pretty sick, but more importantly, way out of my budget. There is no such thing as a budget friendly Intense bike...
    02 Giant NRS
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    08 Specialized StumpJumper
    11 Giant Reign (converted to 27.5)
    14 Giant Trance 27.5

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by charging_rhinos View Post
    in my opinion, 650b is a silly standard. Not as good at rolling as a 29er, not as good at handling as a 26er. Everyone is so obsessed with low rolling resistance on big wheels lately, but they forget to take into account the higher lateral wheel flex, higher moment of inertia (think gyroscope effect), more rotational mass to spin, etc. With 650b, those negatives will cancel out any marginal increase in rolling efficiency. It's like the 15mm qr axle. The 20 is better in pretty much every way, and only a few grams more in weight. But they came out with the 15mm and shoehorned it into its current place. Now we have all sorts of 'standards, hub types, fork types, etc to sort through. You get my point: it isn't of enough benefit to justify itself. So don't wait for 650b.

    I have a Reign and it is an incredibly capable bike. It rides up just as well as the Trance (honestly it does, I've ridden both), and it descends a whole lot better. True, that extra inch of travel isn't always needed for certain things, but having it there doesn't affect the overall performance of the bike in the least. It's still an AM bike, not a freerider. But that extra inch sure is nice to have when you do need it. The Trance is a great bike, but for versatility's sake, I'd go with the Reign. I did, and I haven't regretted that choice once in 3 years of riding it.
    You're right... That was exactly my reasoning when I was first deciding on getting the Reign. Hopefully, the new wheelset/tire setup will improve my speed a little, because I feel like a damn mule out there (especially when you have all these 29ers flying around), but I've noticed that not a single 29er has dared to lift both wheels off the ground... even on the small jumps. Although I have to admit, I tried it on my friend's 29er and it almost ended very ugly for me. Somebody recommended I try Panaracer Rampage tires instead of the Nevegals, anybody else care to recommend a similarly handling tire that rolls better? It's hard to argue with the Nevegals handling, but they come with a rolling penalty... Are you running 2.1 or 2.35 on your Reign?
    02 Giant NRS
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    08 Specialized StumpJumper
    11 Giant Reign (converted to 27.5)
    14 Giant Trance 27.5

  7. #7
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    In my opinion, the 27.5" wheel is the future. Better rolling than the 26er and lighter and more fun than a 29er. Best of both worlds. It's funny how opinions differ from person to person. Have you guys ever tried a 27.5" bike, or are you just throwing worthless opinions out there?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by charging_rhinos View Post
    in my opinion, 650b is a silly standard. Not as good at rolling as a 29er, not as good at handling as a 26er. Everyone is so obsessed with low rolling resistance on big wheels lately, but they forget to take into account the higher lateral wheel flex, higher moment of inertia (think gyroscope effect), more rotational mass to spin, etc. With 650b, those negatives will cancel out any marginal increase in rolling efficiency..
    Your argument could also be used to support the 650b standard. Allow me to flip the script and use your same argument. The 650b is better at rolling than a 26er and better handling than a 29er. As far as I'm concerned, the glass is half full.

    Each wheel size has it's advantages and disadvantages. It all depends how you look at it.

    To the OP: If you plan to change bikes in 2014 maybe you don't need to upgrade yet (or lateral grade?). It sounds like the only problem with your Reign is too much travel. Could you somehow limit the travel with suspension setup to get you through next season?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhelm72 View Post
    Your argument could also be used to support the 650b standard. Allow me to flip the script and use your same argument. The 650b is better at rolling than a 26er and better handling than a 29er. As far as I'm concerned, the glass is half full.

    Each wheel size has it's advantages and disadvantages. It all depends how you look at it.

    To the OP: If you plan to change bikes in 2014 maybe you don't need to upgrade yet (or lateral grade?). It sounds like the only problem with your Reign is too much travel. Could you somehow limit the travel with suspension setup to get you through next season?
    It's kinda difficult to reduce the amount of travel. The suspension is plush, as it should be for an AM bike. I'm gonna just stick it out for another season and make the best of the new wheelset/tires. There is a post where a few people have succesfully mounted 650b wheels on the Reign frame. I think the BB is low enough so that the extra rise didn't adversely handling too much. I might look into that when more budget friendly 650b wheelset become more readily available.

    As for 26er vs 650b vs 29er argument, it's all really a matter of personal taste. Pros and cons regardless which tire size you ride. If I had the money, I'd have one of each. However, to all the 29er fanboys, don't be so quick to dismiss the 26er. I didn't see anyone b*tching about their "inferior bump rolling" 2-3 years ago... They've been the heart and soul of MTB for the past 4 decades. Should be interesting to see what the standard is over the next 4 decades.
    02 Giant NRS
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    08 Specialized StumpJumper
    11 Giant Reign (converted to 27.5)
    14 Giant Trance 27.5

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by guppie View Post
    It's kinda difficult to reduce the amount of travel. The suspension is plush, as it should be for an AM bike. I'm gonna just stick it out for another season and make the best of the new wheelset/tires. There is a post where a few people have succesfully mounted 650b wheels on the Reign frame. I think the BB is low enough so that the extra rise didn't adversely handling too much. I might look into that when more budget friendly 650b wheelset become more readily available.

    As for 26er vs 650b vs 29er argument, it's all really a matter of personal taste. Pros and cons regardless which tire size you ride. If I had the money, I'd have one of each. However, to all the 29er fanboys, don't be so quick to dismiss the 26er. I didn't see anyone b*tching about their "inferior bump rolling" 2-3 years ago... They've been the heart and soul of MTB for the past 4 decades. Should be interesting to see what the standard is over the next 4 decades.
    You might be able to put a set of 650b wheels on your bike; however, it won't help with your original issue. That won't remedy the fact that you find the bike too heavy with too much travel. The only thing you would gain with the 650 conversion is a bit more rolling and terrain compliance. So, is it worth it for you to upgrade a bike that is fundamentally wrong for you and your riding style?

    I share your interest with the industry standards. I went in to a bike shop as a noob two years ago and they really pushed the 29er. I don't really think they had a clue what was best for me but they really needed to sell that store full of 9ers. It's all a marketing game. Once 27.5 inch wheels become more mainstream, someone will probably come up with a 26.75 or a 28.25 wheel because 1.5 inch diameter change is too much

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by guppie View Post
    As for 26er vs 650b vs 29er argument, it's all really a matter of personal taste. Pros and cons regardless which tire size you ride. If I had the money, I'd have one of each.
    Amen! The new rule is (N+1) * 3.

    At least, that's what I've been telling the wife .

  12. #12
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    Food for thought. There's been good things said about putting the next size up shock on trance, making the rear about 5.7". Then add a height adjustable fork. I'm going to try it on my trance. Seems I could change setups from reg trance to something that falls between trance and reign.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by abeckstead View Post
    Food for thought. There's been good things said about putting the next size up shock on trance, making the rear about 5.7". Then add a height adjustable fork. I'm going to try it on my trance. Seems I could change setups from reg trance to something that falls between trance and reign.
    Sounds like a fun project. Post back on your results.

    I originally made this post because I didn't want to keep throwing money at this bike... The Elixir 5 brakes are horrible (not enough power) and I about to install another set of different pads. If this doesn't work I was going to buy the XT 785 brakes ($400). Then the whole Trance frame idea. It never ends!
    02 Giant NRS
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    11 Giant Reign (converted to 27.5)
    14 Giant Trance 27.5

  14. #14
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    I replaced my Elixir 5's with SLX 666's... Avid's are a cruel joke.

    Here's the thread about the Trance mod's

  15. #15
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    if yu are set on getting a 650b bike in 2014 i dont see the point of upgrading to another 26'' bike you will only have a year. waste of a couple thousand bucks. unless you get a 26'' now and convert latter.

  16. #16
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    guppie - what is the weight of your bike as-is?

  17. #17
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    Buy a bike that does both. I was riding a specialized enduro and it was super slack and killed it downhill but it was a pig everywhere else. I traded it for a jamis Dakar xam that has 160mm of travel and it also fits 650b wheels with no modifications. Jenson USA or price point has them on sale for 2000. Another great trail bike that fits 650b is the Santa Cruz blur lt.

  18. #18
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    Ya, what does your bike weigh? I ride a 08 reign that weighs 26 lbs with a dropper post...bike goes anywhere I am willing to try.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    In my opinion, the 27.5" wheel is the future. Better rolling than the 26er and lighter and more fun than a 29er. Best of both worlds. It's funny how opinions differ from person to person. Have you guys ever tried a 27.5" bike, or are you just throwing worthless opinions out there?
    Yep ridden all three types. These are my findings. If I were to rate the rolling resistance of the 650b wheel on a scale from 26er to 29er, it would be far more close to a 26er. I can show that wish some math if you like. It isn't a perfect split at all. And if I were to rate the rotational resistance due to larger, heavier wheels, it would be very close to a 29er.

    That is why it's my opinion that it's not a perfect medium. It has most of the negatives of a 29er, and it doesn't roll much better than a 26er. I realize that many don't believe that, but it is my opinion based on my experiences. I really think that working on smoother and better peddling on a 26er will make more of a difference than relying on a 27.5
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by charging_rhinos View Post
    Yep ridden all three types. These are my findings. If I were to rate the rolling resistance of the 650b wheel on a scale from 26er to 29er, it would be far more close to a 26er. I can show that wish some math if you like. It isn't a perfect split at all. And if I were to rate the rotational resistance due to larger, heavier wheels, it would be very close to a 29er.

    That is why it's my opinion that it's not a perfect medium. It has most of the negatives of a 29er, and it doesn't roll much better than a 26er. I realize that many don't believe that, but it is my opinion based on my experiences. I really think that working on smoother and better peddling on a 26er will make more of a difference than relying on a 27.5
    Spot on dude. I'd wager 90%+ people believe it's a halfway point when in fact the bias is closer to the 26er wheel.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by motochick View Post
    Ya, what does your bike weigh? I ride a 08 reign that weighs 26 lbs with a dropper post...bike goes anywhere I am willing to try.
    holy sh*t, that's pretty light for an AM bike lol.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul View Post
    if yu are set on getting a 650b bike in 2014 i dont see the point of upgrading to another 26'' bike you will only have a year. waste of a couple thousand bucks. unless you get a 26'' now and convert latter.
    I kinda agree. UNLESS you're pretty confident that you can sell your old bike for good money. I'd say stick with your Reign first and then wait it out. You never know if you're pining for a 650b is just because of all the news.

    On the other hand, if you got cash to burn, I suggest try out an available 650b now - you can always sell that one too when you find another 650b bike you like better.

    HAHAHA. hope that one helps.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihaveagibsonsg View Post
    Buy a bike that does both. I was riding a specialized enduro and it was super slack and killed it downhill but it was a pig everywhere else. I traded it for a jamis Dakar xam that has 160mm of travel and it also fits 650b wheels with no modifications. Jenson USA or price point has them on sale for 2000. Another great trail bike that fits 650b is the Santa Cruz blur lt.
    That's all good and I love Gibsons but if you slap a set of 650-b's on those bikes your bottom bracket will be about five eights of an inch higher with a 2.3 tire. Wait for the real 650 specific designs.

  24. #24
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    Hey OP.. I really think you need to give that reign another chance. Which model do you have? Did yours come with the adjustable fork? I'm kinda in the opposite situation as you. I have a trance x and freaking love the bike. It does everything well and the only reason I'm looking for a new bike is because I can still get a decent price for it if I sell. Plus, i like changing things up every few years. My other option is to try a 140-150 adjustable fork. Ive heard they work great on the tx. I've been looking at the reign because I've heard it still climbs great but descends better.

    If you feel like your bike is a slow roller....you need to try some new wheels and tires. I thought the same about my tx with the nevegals and stock wheels, but after putting the crossmax st wheel set and going tubeless... It transformed the bike.

    That reign is one of the most versatile bikes out there....and I'm sure once you make a few changes you'll be very happy with the bike.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Pitueee View Post
    That's all good and I love Gibsons but if you slap a set of 650-b's on those bikes your bottom bracket will be about five eights of an inch higher with a 2.3 tire. Wait for the real 650 specific designs.
    Add a slack headset for 100$ more and you will lower the bottom bracket back out to where it was before.

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