flats, durable pins...

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  • 11-09-2012
    Jwind
    flats, durable pins...
    Seems like tons of pedal threads. Maybe it's the signal to noise ratio or maybe it's just that i'm not very bright today but I'm totally lost on flats. Up until now, i've always done the clips with platform IE mallet and minnar similar.

    This Winter I've decided I'm going to give plats and 5.10s a valid effort. Shoes are pretty straight forward. I'm totally lost with pedals. Please help me. I don't buy cheap gear. I also don't spend a 50% premium for XTR over XT. Seems like a bazillion options... Are there any sort of favorites that at tried and true or is there more of a preference thing? Lastly, I live in the desert. I need pins that I can actually remove after a rock strick or something...
  • 11-09-2012
    GhostRing
    Was going to link you to the pedal shootout, but you'll figure it out. ;)

    I am currently using Answer Roves due to fair price, decent size/weight and non-setscrew pins
    I did re-profile all of them to get more bite, but they have held up quite well to repeated rock strikes.
  • 11-09-2012
    Carraig042
    I use the Straitline Defacto pedals on my DH rig and those pins hold up exceptionally well. They are the non-set screw type.

    -Brett
  • 11-09-2012
    Jwind
    Thanks. this thread? http://forums.mtbr.com/downhill-free...at-607155.html it's 2 years old now - that's all.
  • 11-09-2012
    Jwind
    ya never mind. Monster thread. Not sure weather to thanks you for the information or than you for confusing me more with too much ;)
  • 11-09-2012
    Jwind
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Carraig042 View Post
    I use the Straitline Defacto pedals on my DH rig and those pins hold up exceptionally well. They are the non-set screw type.

    -Brett

    Those look maybe a little heavy for trail riding. Any feedback on the amps?
  • 11-09-2012
    hitechredneck
    I just use the wellgo flats during the winter. I have not had a problem with them at all and they are cheap and easy to replace.
  • 11-09-2012
    GhostRing
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jwind View Post
    ya never mind. Monster thread. Not sure weather to thanks you for the information or than you for confusing me more with too much ;)

    haha! probably the latter...
  • 11-09-2012
    bad andy
    Steel pins. Screw from behind (not set-screws) will be most sturdy. You'll pay a premium for under 17mm thick pedals, but thin pedals are quite nice. The pedal thread is where it's at.
  • 11-09-2012
    slimat99
    Try to avoid pins that require you to back out damaged threads through the pedal body.

    Screw from the bottom pins often mess up the pedal body threads when backed out. Grub style top mounted pins when damaged can be difficult to remove. Top mounted hex pins are by far the best I've used. They are easy to remove even when damaged and they protect the pedal body threads. There's a few companies using hex pins. Straitline, HT, Syntace, Deity...come to mind. You can also by packs of straitline pins and tap most pedals for them.

    in addition to hex pins, I like e13's pin design. I also like their replaceable composite plates that should slide off rocks better than metal. Ti axle option for weight watchers too.
  • 11-09-2012
    Jwind
    Great info here thanks. What do you mean "pedal threads are where it's at?"
  • 11-09-2012
    GhostRing
    "thread is" not "threads are"

    He's referencing the previously linked pedal forum thread.
  • 11-09-2012
    Coondog#77
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jwind View Post
    Great info here thanks. What do you mean "pedal threads are where it's at?"

    That as mentioned before, there is a lot o info to be found in the "pedal shoot out thread".

    I've been searching for some new pedals to replace my Odessey's. After looking through the above thread (not page by page), I've settled on a set of Deity pedals. You should check it out!
  • 11-09-2012
    Jwind
    Ahh. Thanks guys.
  • 11-09-2012
    Treebumper
    I read that whole thread. My Saints should be here on Monday, usually can't go wrong with Shimano.
  • 11-10-2012
    good4nothing
    Thinnest pedal platforms on the market. Never snag your pedal again!

    hard to go wrong. thin pedal, thick pins, super-durable. I've had a pair of ultimates on an 8" One with a 12 & 1/8" BB that i've been bouncing off of rocks all season without any issues.
  • 11-10-2012
    ride the biscuit
    diety compound. they're plastic...brilliant design though. very tall, replaceable pins - probably grippier than the high-end alloys i had before. i read too that the pins can be found at any hardware store too, which is great

    thin profile, much lighter than alloy, only $50. I've had them almost a year, and a bunch of my friends switched to them too after checking them out
  • 11-10-2012
    evasive
    Since you made a point of saying you don't buy cheap gear, that narrows the field somewhat.

    I like my twenty6 pedals, but it doesn't sound like that's what you're looking for. Point1 is an obvious one to consider. I've seen a number of broken Deity and Xpedo pedals locally.

    My contribution: I second what good4nothing posted. Take a serious look at the Crampon Ultimates. They're a fantastic pedal. I bought mine specifically as a desert pedal to save my twenty6 Predators from UT trip abuse, and I am really impressed with them. They're $150 direct from the Brothers, come in a bunch of colors, and are really thin. Really strong, too. The pins are stout and can be installed point up or point down. I prefer point up so that I can use the hex wrench from the opposite side and advance the pin threads out if I bend one. That said, I've given them some really good whacks and the pins are still all straight.

    Much as I drool over most of Saint offerings, their pedal design was dated before it shipped, IMO. Same with e13. Canfields are the first to go convex and I saw some Internet chatter about how nonsensical that is, but I expect we'll see more companies doing the same when people figure out how well it works and how much sense it makes when pedals get that thin.
  • 11-10-2012
    Zen Cyclery
    I have been rocking the KCNC Steady pedals for quite a while now. I haven't had to replace any of the pins yet, and they have taken some good bashes on rocks and stumps.
    Overall, I would highly recommend them. They come with a ton of extra pins, and plus I love the look of them.
  • 11-10-2012
    Jwind
    Awesome feedback. So a few that I'm considering...

    -Straitline Amps
    -Crampon Ultimates
    -Spank Spikes
    -Local shop is a loaded dealer. I'm sure I can get a good deal with them. Anything worth looking at there?

    Why wouldn't the twenty6 pedal be what I'm looking for?
  • 11-10-2012
    slimat99
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jwind View Post
    Awesome feedback. So a few that I'm considering...

    -Straitline Amps
    -Crampon Ultimates
    -Spank Spikes
    -Local shop is a loaded dealer. I'm sure I can get a good deal with them. Anything worth looking at there?

    Why wouldn't the twenty6 pedal be what I'm looking for?

    Here's some things to think about:

    AMP's have a small platform, I loved everything about them but size was a deal breaker for me

    Crampons are slightly convex but people say they feel flat with pins. (most pedals are concave which I feel adds traction and feel)

    Concave, convex, or flat is really personal preference but most people will agree concave offers the best traction. The degree of concavity can vary. Super thin pedals usually have a smaller amount of concavity. In the case of the Crampons they are so thin at the edges they have to be convex to make room for the axle and bearings. You may love this, or hate it? I was very attracted to the crampons until I felt them under foot. I def prefer concave.

    What I look for in a flat is minimum of 100mmx100mm size, pin design that doesn't require backing out damaged pins, bearings over bushings (bushings tend to spin poorly and develop play easily) and lastly thickness. Thin pedals offer a better feel IMO.

    Shoe size and riding style def play a big role. If you want to move your feet easier convex or flat with short pins or fewer pins are the way to go. If you want max traction concave, large platform, and longer pins will be preferred. I've had to try a number of different pedals over the years to figure out what I like and don't like. Unlike clips, feel can vary greatly with flats.
  • 11-10-2012
    evasive
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jwind View Post
    Why wouldn't the twenty6 pedal be what I'm looking for?

    The pins are designed to break away rather than bend or strip out of the body. They're consumable and I go through a set ($30-$40 depending) in a season or two. The pins are machined in house with the pedals so they're more expensive than grub screws.

    The pedals are super s3xy and probably the grippiest on the market, but your original post called for pedals with durable pins.
  • 11-10-2012
    slimat99
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    The pins are designed to break away rather than bend or strip out of the body. They're consumable and I go through a set ($30-$40 depending) in a season or two. The pins are machined in house with the pedals so they're more expensive than grub screws.

    The pedals are super s3xy and probably the grippiest on the market, but your original post called for pedals with durable pins.

    I can second that. I've owned rally's and prerunners. The latter have the weakest pins I've used, but very grippy. I gave up on those pins after going through 20 extras and tapped my runners for straitline pins. SO much more durable. Straitline pins are super tough. Probably the toughest on the market, and easiest to remove and replace when damaged.
  • 11-10-2012
    WarBoom
    I snapped my loaded cromo pedals at the threads so I got big boy pedals, the e13 lg1 flats and man are they grippy! I have to lift my feet off the pedals just like I would with my eggbeaters, they are almost as grippy feeling as being clipless
  • 11-10-2012
    Jwind
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    The pedals are super s3xy and probably the grippiest on the market, but your original post called for pedals with durable pins.

    I've destroyed 1/2 of the set screw on my mallets in a year. Being new to flats and living in the UT desert, i'd likely destroy twice what you do. That being said, a nice product is a nice product...

    Interesting point about concave/convex. My initial thought are I'd prefer as much grip as possible. Especially when first changing from clips to flats...

    Toss up on the amps now. I don't have a terrible large foot at 9 1/2 but I could see how some extra room would be nice...
  • 11-11-2012
    wv_bob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Take a serious look at the Crampon Ultimates. They're a fantastic pedal. I bought mine specifically as a desert pedal to save my twenty6 Predators from UT trip abuse, and I am really impressed with them. They're $150 direct from the Brothers, come in a bunch of colors, and are really thin. Really strong, too. The pins are stout and can be installed point up or point down. I prefer point up so that I can use the hex wrench from the opposite side and advance the pin threads out if I bend one. That said, I've given them some really good whacks and the pins are still all straight.

    FWIW, I got a set of Ultimates a week ago and they came with grub screws, not the pointed pins. I really wanted the pointed pins because they look like they'd be easier on the shins. The grubs have a head on both sides so if you grind or break the top one off you can still use a hex wrench to get them out from the bottom.
  • 11-11-2012
    evasive
    Huh. Yeah, I have yet to cut myself on the Ultimate pins. It was an everyday occurrence with my Predators.
  • 11-11-2012
    slimat99
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WarBoom View Post
    I snapped my loaded cromo pedals at the threads so I got big boy pedals, the e13 lg1 flats and man are they grippy! I have to lift my feet off the pedals just like I would with my eggbeaters, they are almost as grippy feeling as being clipless

    Pinkbike did a write up on the lg1's and said they have no peer when it comes to grip. I like my point one podiums but traction is nothing special even after being tapped for straitline pins. I like that e13 is using the same material they use on their bash guards too. I'm sure they slid off rocks better than any metal pedal. Only things I dont' like are bushings instead of bearings and weight. Considering how large they are they really aren't that heavy. Spin control is pretty cool too!
  • 11-11-2012
    michaelsnead
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    .......Take a serious look at the Crampon Ultimates. They're a fantastic pedal. I bought mine specifically as a desert pedal to save my twenty6 Predators from UT trip abuse, and I am really impressed with them. They're $150 direct from the Brothers, come in a bunch of colors, and are really thin. Really strong, too. The pins are stout and can be installed point up or point down. I prefer point up so that I can use the hex wrench from the opposite side and advance the pin threads out if I bend one. That said, I've given them some really good whacks and the pins are still all straight......

    Hey Folks,

    We have generation 1 and 2 of the original Crampons plus the Ultimate installed on 6 bikes being ridden by 3 people. The bikes range from DH to SS. The pedals have all been bomber and delivered on all promises. We've been using them since they first came on the market. The original set is on my DH bike and working perfectly. That said the brothers have made solid improvements in the two iterations since the first design. Therefore my strong recommendation is that you go with the Ultimate:

    Thinnest pedal platforms on the market. Never snag your pedal again!

    Once you experience thin pedals and FiveTen shoes you'll never look back!;)

    Good luck in your search,

    Michael:thumbsup:
  • 11-11-2012
    natzx7
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WarBoom View Post
    I snapped my loaded cromo pedals at the threads so I got big boy pedals, the e13 lg1 flats and man are they grippy! I have to lift my feet off the pedals just like I would with my eggbeaters, they are almost as grippy feeling as being clipless

    Did this happen at Alafia? You ride a Giant right?
    I love my Defactos, but I think that my Five Tens are as important as the pedals. The combination of a good pedal and a platform specific shoe makes all the difference IMO. Especially if you enjoy having shins. :thumbsup:
  • 11-11-2012
    WarBoom
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by natzx7 View Post
    Did this happen at Alafia? You ride a Giant right?
    I love my Defactos, but I think that my Five Tens are as important as the pedals. The combination of a good pedal and a platform specific shoe makes all the difference IMO. Especially if you enjoy having shins. :thumbsup:


    Yep at Alafia and its a red and white giant trance, and you couldnt be more right about good shoes being just as important as a good flat. But either way my shins take a beating.
  • 11-11-2012
    natzx7
    ^^ I lent you those crummy plastic flats when you broke your pedal, talked with you the other day at Balm.
    I used to ride with Vans, they grip alright but the soles are way to flexy. I can't believe I ever rode with them now. I rode out to dinner with them the other night and I swear I could feel every pin in the pedal. The stiff sole on the 5 10s really cuts down on foot fatigue, IMO. There is some 5 10s on sale at Bluesky for a super cheap price if they have your size and you can live with the color.
    BlueSkyCycling.com - Five Ten Spitfire Shoe
  • 11-11-2012
    project_d
    I've been running the Kona Wah-Wahs for over a year, and they are the best I've ever owned. They are not the lightest, but light enough. They have a good size to them to fit my 10.5 foot, and ALL the pins are still straight...and I ride a lot of rocky trails.
  • 11-11-2012
    WarBoom
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by natzx7 View Post
    ^^ I lent you those crummy plastic flats when you broke your pedal, talked with you the other day at Balm.
    I used to ride with Vans, they grip alright but the soles are way to flexy. I can't believe I ever rode with them now. I rode out to dinner with them the other night and I swear I could feel every pin in the pedal. The stiff sole on the 5 10s really cuts down on foot fatigue, IMO. There is some 5 10s on sale at Bluesky for a super cheap price if they have your size and you can live with the color.
    BlueSkyCycling.com - Five Ten Spitfire Shoe

    Haha it all makes sense now, and those pedals weren't crappy, the ones I broke were!
  • 11-11-2012
    WarBoom
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by slimat99 View Post
    Pinkbike did a write up on the lg1's and said they have no peer when it comes to grip. I like my point one podiums but traction is nothing special even after being tapped for straitline pins. I like that e13 is using the same material they use on their bash guards too. I'm sure they slid off rocks better than any metal pedal. Only things I dont' like are bushings instead of bearings and weight. Considering how large they are they really aren't that heavy. Spin control is pretty cool too!

    The weight is a bit of a penalty but the superb grip and sheer ruggedness more than makes up for it. The spin control is quite a nice feature and I have run it very loose and very tight and in pedal effort it makes very little difference. I set them so that the pedals wouldn't spin when I took my foot off, it was a bit tricky to get them set at the same tension but was well worth it. I read somewhere that e13 is going to make colored composite pieces for them as well.
  • 11-12-2012
    Thor Lord of Thunder
    Riding DeFactos and AMPS now...AMPS do have a noticeably smaller platform, but with size 8.5s it's not a big deal. Your 9.5 might be right around where people start not liking the platform size (just guessing).

    Deity makes their composite pedal, which I've never tried, but their Decoys are pretty solid pedals for the price. They always get good reviews too.

    I do about 1/2 my riding in Moab (that's where you are?) and both Straitlines have held up amazingly well on the rock there. Either would be my first choice...AMPS are good for being light, Defactos are my all-around favorite pedal.
  • 11-12-2012
    Tone's
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Carraig042 View Post
    I use the Straitline Defacto pedals on my DH rig and those pins hold up exceptionally well. They are the non-set screw type.

    -Brett

    This, Straitline defactos are killer pedals, pins and pin placement are great, the bushings in them are magic, last for ages, and can be replaced in minutes at home with nothing more than a screw driver.
    I was so happy with my first pair all my bikes now have them, OP look them up on the net, not only are the durable n big platforms they look the bomb..:thumbsup:
  • 11-12-2012
    bad andy
    I read the whole pedal thread earlier this year when deciding on pedals for my new rig. Originally went with the HT AE01, since they were thin, and 'relatively' affordable compared to some others. I liked their feel and grip. They came with aluminum pins and those are easily destroyed by rock strikes/slides. Also, the ones that top load (they use 2 different types of pins) - if enough of the pin gets ground down, you've got no way to remove them. The ones that load from underside, can be backed out if mangled, but you'd have to be careful and possibly lop off the mangled bits with a dremel so you don't jack the threads up during removal - a common thing to do with underside/back loading pins. Also noticed radial play in them very quickly. The DU bushings were wearing down fast. Sent them back for a rebuild and they started wearing down again. At that time I decided just go for gold and grabbed a set of Point one Podiums. The standard steel pins in these have been much, much sturdier - and the full bearing system has also proved much more longer lasting. No radial play yet, and I don't expect any for quite some time. So far so good with these.
  • 11-12-2012
    wv_bob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Huh. Yeah, I have yet to cut myself on the Ultimate pins. It was an everyday occurrence with my Predators.

    Well at least my estimation that the pointed pins would be easier on the body was right. Grub screws are killers when you just bump into them no matter what pedal they're screwed into.
  • 11-12-2012
    evasive
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wv_bob View Post
    Well at least my estimation that the pointed pins would be easier on the body was right. Grub screws are killers when you just bump into them no matter what pedal they're screwed into.

    Nice little biopsy samplers, though.

    Yeah, most of the cuts from my Predators weren't from slipping a pedal but rather from leaning or bumping into one while stopped and straddling the bike.
  • 11-12-2012
    wv_bob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bad andy View Post
    Also, the ones that top load (they use 2 different types of pins) - if enough of the pin gets ground down, you've got no way to remove them. The ones that load from underside, can be backed out if mangled, but you'd have to be careful and possibly lop off the mangled bits with a dremel so you don't jack the threads up during removal - a common thing to do with underside/back loading pins.

    The Crampon Ultimates don't have that problem. If you bugger up the top of the pin, you can take them out from the bottom through the top. The bottom hole is just big enough to get an allen wrench in but not big enough for the pin to come out that way. The pins that came with my pedals have socket heads on both ends for that reason.
  • 11-12-2012
    zebrahum
    I can very strongly recommend the Straitline DeFacto pedals. I have been running them for a few years now and I happen to hit a lot of rocks with them (in Moab and elsewhere) and I haven't broken a pin yet. I have lost a couple, but that was my fault for riding them without locktite.

    My wife is riding the Crampons and they are an amazing pedal as well. If you value weight or thinness over all else, they would be a great pedal.
  • 11-12-2012
    seleniak
    Real happy with my Point 1 Podiums with Steel Pins.


    -Shane
  • 11-12-2012
    natzx7
    Not to derail the thread, but I wonder if anyone else has had this happen with their Straitlines. ( I have DeFactos ). After about 6 months of riding I noticed some play on the outer bushing, I could feel a sort of clunking when I was riding choppy terrain. I felt the pedals, and there was a slight deflection on the outer ( small) bushing on both sides. No noticeable slop on the inner bushing near the crank. I figured it was time for some new bushings, got a set, cleaned everything absolutely sterile, light grease and reassembled. They still have some play. The pedal shaft looks perfect and unworn. Anyone else notice this?
  • 11-12-2012
    Optimus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Treebumper View Post
    I read that whole thread. My Saints should be here on Monday, usually can't go wrong with Shimano.

    Take the spacers out from under the heads of the installed pins, install the extra pins that are included, they will now grip 510's very nicely. :thumbsup:
  • 11-12-2012
    Tone's
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by natzx7 View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but I wonder if anyone else has had this happen with their Straitlines. ( I have DeFactos ). After about 6 months of riding I noticed some play on the outer bushing, I could feel a sort of clunking when I was riding choppy terrain. I felt the pedals, and there was a slight deflection on the outer ( small) bushing on both sides. No noticeable slop on the inner bushing near the crank. I figured it was time for some new bushings, got a set, cleaned everything absolutely sterile, light grease and reassembled. They still have some play. The pedal shaft looks perfect and unworn. Anyone else notice this?

    Never seen it mate, but contact straitline, they have great customer service, they should look after you.
    Ive got 3 sets that have been used and abused and never had an issue, cheers
  • 11-13-2012
    zebrahum
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by natzx7 View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but I wonder if anyone else has had this happen with their Straitlines. ( I have DeFactos ). After about 6 months of riding I noticed some play on the outer bushing, I could feel a sort of clunking when I was riding choppy terrain. I felt the pedals, and there was a slight deflection on the outer ( small) bushing on both sides. No noticeable slop on the inner bushing near the crank. I figured it was time for some new bushings, got a set, cleaned everything absolutely sterile, light grease and reassembled. They still have some play. The pedal shaft looks perfect and unworn. Anyone else notice this?

    Would you say that one pedal has more play than the other one does? If so, you may have damaged something. Straitline's customer support is top notch, contact them and they'll give you a better idea of what's happening.
  • 11-13-2012
    StuLax18
    Here's my Point1 Podium after cruzing over a rock when I was riding with one foot off for a dab and didn't get back on in time to lift for the rock. I believe the pins are fine, but I haven't tried to remove them. They supply a few extra pins, so cutting off the end and scrapping it is also an option.

  • 11-13-2012
    bad andy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by StuLax18 View Post
    Here's my Point1 Podium after cruzing over a rock when I was riding with one foot off for a dab and didn't get back on in time to lift for the rock. I believe the pins are fine, but I haven't tried to remove them. They supply a few extra pins, so cutting off the end and scrapping it is also an option.



    I'm not even sure I can tell which is the 'damaged' pin. Thanks to steel pins. Alu pins would likely have received more mangling.
  • 11-13-2012
    WarBoom
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bad andy View Post
    I'm not even sure I can tell which is the 'damaged' pin. Thanks to steel pins. Alu pins would likely have received more mangling.

    Ya alum pins seem to break off if you look at them wrong
    And they are a one use, one shot pin because when you tighten them down they stretch the treads a bit and when you remove and then retighten they break at the stressed threads