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  1. #1
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    Enduro Expert v Dawg Primo v Heckler

    Ok, so bit of background, I currently ride a Giant XTC SX as my XC bike, however am looking to get a FS as i am going to break my XTC if I continue to thash it on downhills and jumps which is what I have been doing recently. I dont ride downhills all the time, but alot of my riding is taking in what i guess is called agresive singletrack and i do enjoy riding downhill courses as part of our routes. I weigh about 180 kg and am 6ft 4 or 193cm tall (that weight is without camelback). The bike has to also be able to handle a once a year trip to the Alps.

    Now i have the opportunity to get one of these 3, The bike has to be lightish to pedal uphill, but be able to ride drops offs and hit jumps. Nothing crazy high, but capable of handling the hits and drops.

    Pro's: Enduro Expert - Comes with some good kit on it, Juicy 7's, DHX 5.0, Talas 36 forks. I have ridden one previously and felt quite at home on it, Also quite good deals on these at the moment in the UK. I like the setup on it. Good warrenty as well

    Cons: Is it to heavy to be considered a genuine all mountain bike? Double ring only in the UK. FSR link means not much room to drop seat post

    Pro's: Dawg Primo - Alot lighter than the enduro, more of a AM bike imo, never ridden one yet but will do before I buy. Kona's dont break, Great deals on them at the moment. Looks like it can take a hammering.

    Cons: can the RP3 shock that alot of abuse? Not to sure of that many at the moment.

    Pro's: Heckler - Seems to hit the hardcore XC/Singletrack/Downhill that I am looking for, complete custome build means I can pretty much get what I want on it. Easy maintenance with the single pivot.

    Cons: No deals on it whatsoever, would have to scrimp abit as the Heckler is pushing my budget quite hard, I might have abit more cash than I anticipate but not sure.

    For the Heckler i would want the X9 AM kit, I dont know whether i want a coil shock or not, I am not that heavy and think a air shock should be able to take the kinda hits that I want. + not sure what front forks to go with for the Heckler either the Pikes or Floats.

    Also just to say I have considered a Coiler and consider these to heavy really.

    Any comments/suggestions/help appreciated.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Logan84; 08-08-2006 at 02:41 PM.

  2. #2
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    I dont' know about the others however I got myself and enduro expert this year and I am very happy with it. I don't find it too heavy but i'm not the fastest guy uphill to begin with nor am i going to be racing or anything. Very nice setup of parts and pieces - I will tell you however that it has taken quite a lot of experimenting to get dialed in for my preference. But thats all the fun of having so many dials and adjustments to play with.
    If you look in the specialized forum you will find some setup tips that people have posted.
    Brakes are awesome as is the shifting. Forks are great as well. I'd highly recommend it.

  3. #3
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    ... and if we just ... I love my Dawg!

    It takes me anywhere and everyewhere with ease. I can do 4' drops to flat landings no problem. The shock has lasted almost 2 seasons with no issues.

    IMO you can't go wrong with either machine.... but I do love that Dawg!!
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  4. #4
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    Logan84, welcome to mtbr!

    Santa Cruz Heckler
    Santa Cruz Heckler
    Dawg is more 'enduro' suspension tuning
    Santa Cruz Heckler
    Santa Cruz Heckler

  5. #5
    Singletrack Slacker
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    They all sound great, the Heckler is my pick. I am 6'3" and 245, I rode it with the 5th element for three years, it was great. I now have a three-way air on it, I have yet to find this bikes limit. I live in Fruita Colorado and ride here and Moab on a regular basis. This bike can handle more than I have the courage for. good luck on your decision

  6. #6
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    I'm looking at the same frames plus the Prophet

    I need a seattube no longer than 16 inch.

    Need to be able to slam the seatpost.

    Headangle of 69 degrees.

    Seattube angle of 70 or higher.

    Effective Top tube of close to 22 inches.

    Would prefer a chainstay length of 16.5 but can live with 17 inches.

    Eliminated the Enduro because of the interrupted seattube. Yeah, it's a great bike. Got buddies that ride them and they feel good. I've had a couple bikes with interrupted seattubes in the past and didn't like the fact that I couldn't slam the seat.

    I had to elminate the Hecker because of the size. The small is too small and the medium is too big. Well the seatpost on medium is too tall. 18 inches. I can't get saddle low enough. This price is a steal but it's too small.

    http://rbikes.com/itemdetails.cfm?id=448

    That leaves the Dawg and the Prophet. I'm leaning toward the Prophet because of the chainstay is shorter.

    Hope to make up my mind soon.

  7. #7
    b3n
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    Got a Dawg Primo, very happy with it. Fairly light, if you consider it has a rugged freeride frame (it's the 2004 Coiler frame design). Very nice head angle / seat angle combination to let you climb quite easily (not like an XC bike, but you know that) and descend like a comet. Enduro is more a "point-and-shoot" machine, IMHO not well suited for a 360 use (Specialized discovered that, since has dropped the frame for standard Enduro leaving it just for SXs). Then the Heckler: I love this bike, and that was the competitor of the Dawg when I w3as choosing my bike. If you plain to do a very aggressive riding (DHX5, a Fox 36 or Z1) for me it's a great bike; if you want to build it with a "short" fork, like a fox 32mm, and an air shock, probably the Dawg angles will give you more fun.

  8. #8
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    Cheers ben

    thats some valuable input there, The price of the 36 forks mean its beyond my price range at the moment and would have to settle for a 32 fork.

    Also the Dawg primo has some great offers on it at the moment, and there is no difference in the components between the 06 and 07 version.

    Didnt realise it was a old coiler frame.

    Will see if I can get a test ride on it this weekend.

    any more suggestions welcome.

  9. #9
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    Big ring supplied...

    Quote Originally Posted by Logan84
    Cons: Is it to heavy to be considered a genuine all mountain bike? Double ring only in the UK. FSR link means not much room to drop seat post
    You have tempted me out of lurking and into my first post!!

    I recently got a good deal on an Enduro Elite (in the UK). It's clearly not the lightest bike around but I am loving it.

    Although the standard setup is double ring and chain device a "big ring" is also supplied in the bag with all the manuals if you want to go to a standard triple setup.

  10. #10
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    Fragile, we officially welcome you to mtbr !

  11. #11
    Another festivus MIRACLE!
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    Enduro

    Love my 06 Enduro Expert. Fork alone is worth $1k (US). Dual ring is the way to go w/bashguard. Third ring is a WASTE of time. Plus the second ring is 34. So much fun.

    But everyone is right, you can't go wrong with either of them. Enduro is VERY burly. Can do FR/AM with this bike. I do all the drops and other stuff I did with my Bullit. HL on Enduro is nice to - eliminates brake jack I hated on Bullit.
    "If an illegal alien is an undocumented immigrant, than a drug dealer is an unlicensed pharmicist."

  12. #12
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    you should also look into the new 07 trek line of bikes. they are prolly going to be around the same price as the other bikes you said above.

    trek EX 7


    or the remedy 6


  13. #13
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    Those Dawgs are tough

    Those Dawgs are tough, and if you ditch the rp3 and buy a swinger 4 way coil from CRC you can sell the RP3 and pocket some change.i think you would have a great Am bike, i found the coil feelt a lot nicer on the Dawg ...only down side i think is the high standover....painfull at times.

  14. #14
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    I have found a shop, that are selling a large enduro in demo colours never used and still in its box for 1800, which is a pretty competitive price. Dont want a 07 bike as you wont get any discounts.

    Gonna test ride a Dawg this weekend i think.

  15. #15
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    I'm planning to replace my Bullit with a Heckler. The Dawg looks like a fun frame as well.

  16. #16
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    what everyone needs, all mountain defined
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  17. #17
    b3n
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnpat
    what everyone needs, all mountain defined
    With the money you used for this rig you can buy a bit less than 3 Konas Dawg Primo...

  18. #18
    Oh, So Interesting!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnpat
    what everyone needs, all mountain defined
    Oh, Oh, me too.
    "what everyone needs, all mountain defined"
    .




    Strava: turn off your dork logger when you're not on sanctioned trails.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by b3n
    With the money you used for this rig you can buy a bit less than 3 Konas Dawg Primo...
    Well I think it is in the same price range of the before mentioned Enduro Pro, similarly outfitted.

    PS: I can't think of 3 others bikes I would trade for this one. The spec is perfect and it rides phenominally.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnpat
    Well I think it is in the same price range of the before mentioned Enduro Pro, similarly outfitted.

    PS: I can't think of 3 others bikes I would trade for this one. The spec is perfect and it rides phenominally.
    Prophet is a legend, but the heckler is in the same league and it's priced well this year. Can you put a Lefty on a heckler?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    Oh, Oh, me too.
    "what everyone needs, all mountain defined"
    Excellent choice!

    (well except for that big ring) - KIDDING

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnpat

    (well except for that big ring) - KIDDING
    Oh, I know you're not kidding....

    I subscribe to the "if its not broke don't fix it" thing. I'll buy a bashguard once the big ring is non-functional...
    .




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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan84
    I weigh about 180 kg
    396 lbs?

    Wow, might I suggest some easy walking, 1/2 mile to start, leading up to 1 mile (when you feel ready, don't push it) everyday until you are under 300 lbs before you ride your new bike?
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    396 lbs?

    Wow, might I suggest some easy walking, 1/2 mile to start, leading up to 1 mile (when you feel ready, don't push it) everyday until you are under 300 lbs before you ride your new bike?
    Harsh. But... you are a big guy. I would have thought coilair might stand up to a bit more punishment than the Dawg. I have a lower specced Dawg Deluxe and weigh 76ish kg and it takes everything I throw at it from aggressive XC to light Freeride (I guess thats called all mountain). You would be exerting a fair bit of stress on your bike if you do any medium jumps and drops so you'd want a pretty strong kit.

    just my 0.02

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKWITS
    Harsh. But... you are a big guy. I would have thought coilair might stand up to a bit more punishment than the Dawg. I have a lower specced Dawg Deluxe and weigh 76ish kg and it takes everything I throw at it from aggressive XC to light Freeride (I guess thats called all mountain). You would be exerting a fair bit of stress on your bike if you do any medium jumps and drops so you'd want a pretty strong kit.

    just my 0.02
    Oh, I was just assuming the weight was a typo. I can't imagine a 400 lb guy "thrashing it" on dh and jumps... But, if you are 400 lbs and ride hard, all the best, I didn't mean to be a d!ck.
    .




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