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  1. #1
    Knomer
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    Endorphin SL & Chilcotin now up on the Knolly site

    Have at it....

    The Lineup

    First frame run on the new models.... March/April. Pre-order NOW.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
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    I don't get why knolly designs their frames with such slack seat tube angles.

  3. #3
    Off the back...
    Reputation: pinkrobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunerinaz
    I don't get why knolly designs their frames with such slack seat tube angles.
    73 and 73.5 is too slack?

  4. #4
    usually cranky
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe
    73 and 73.5 is too slack?
    90 degrees or gtfo.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunerinaz
    I don't get why knolly designs their frames with such slack seat tube angles.


    I love armchair designers.

    What in your opinion would be the benefit of steeper seat tube angles, and what would be the trade-off?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007
    I love armchair designers.

    What in your opinion would be the benefit of steeper seat tube angles, and what would be the trade-off?
    For the physical angle - saddle does not move back when raised.

    For the effective angle - moves you forward when climbing, allows you to hang behind when descending.

    Do I get a cookie?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    For the physical angle - saddle does not move back when raised.

    For the effective angle - moves you forward when climbing, allows you to hang behind when descending.

    Do I get a cookie?

    But what if the bike is designed around the "extreme" angles - ie when the saddle is extended, it is nicely above the pedals, when you drop the saddle, it goes down/out of the way for descending (when you are not using the saddle....)



    You want oreo, or chocolate chip?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007
    But what if the bike is designed around the "extreme" angles - ie when the saddle is extended, it is nicely above the pedals, when you drop the saddle, it goes down/out of the way for descending (when you are not using the saddle....)



    You want oreo, or chocolate chip?
    When the saddle is extended you are probably climbing - and you want to sit as much forward as possible, would not you? Tradeoff is a cramped cockpit when going down. I guess that is why such a geometry got popular on hardtails recently - you do not stay in the saddle when descending as much..

    You asked about the generic benefits of steeper angles - I am not criticizing Knolly design - they obviously know what they are doing.

    Just another interwebz musings.

  9. #9
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    Not any slacker than the old Imp.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Endorphin SL & Chilcotin now up on the Knolly site-dsc_0093.jpg  


  10. #10
    the train keeps rollin
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    I rode a rental/demo Knolly Endo at Gooseberry. The angles seemed spot on, what a sweet ride.
    beaver hunt

  11. #11
    usually cranky
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    knolly clearly has no clue what they are doing.

  12. #12
    Perpetual Hack
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul
    knolly clearly has no clue what they are doing.
    True dat... The angles on my Knolly Delirium T were so whack that I went totally insane and picked up the new 2010 Delirium. And I live in flat-land Ontario Canada. Better call the boys with the white coats with extra long sleeves.

    In all seriousness... The seat-tube angle does what it says on the tin. Puts you in great pedaling position for when you are the motor, but when you drop the seat for fun-time, it gets right out of the way. I tend not to sit when going down, so that is not an issue. I run an adjustable seatpost anyway, so the point is moot.

    michael

  13. #13
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    Thanks for the excitement!

    My buddies talk avy reports and ski waist widths non stop now. It's good to have a place to keep up with new MTB stuff this time of year.
    I'm going to rob banks til I retire or get caught. Either way I'm set for life

  14. #14
    usually cranky
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    it is that time of year. my skis have a 88mm waist but no avalanches in new england.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul
    it is that time of year. my skis have a 88mm waist but no avalanches in new england.

    80mm, 85mm, 95mm and 105 mm are my options.

    And avalanche danger is creeping up for this weekend in the Whistler area

  16. #16
    usually cranky
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007
    80mm, 85mm, 95mm and 105 mm are my options.

    And avalanche danger is creeping up for this weekend in the Whistler area
    very lucky. im jealous.

  17. #17
    Just roll it......
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunerinaz
    I don't get why knolly designs their frames with such slack seat tube angles.
    A couple of reasons come to mind.

    • Full seattube (not interrupted).
    • Allows more travel with shorter chainstays.
    • plays well with the 4x4 linkage.


    You've got to look where the seattube puts the saddle at full extension and how that affects the ETT AND where it puts the rider for seated pedaling/climbing. It's really not any different than a steeper ST that starts above the BB. Then, when the saddle drops for descents, it puts it further out of the way (forward) and allows the rider to get behind the saddle (if necessary) much easier. Frankly, I think it's a brilliant way of looking at the design.

  18. #18
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    How about a real question? Why the 1.125 steerer on the Endorphin and a ZS on the Endorphin SL that's compatible with tapered forks? So basically you can run a tapered fork on the 5" frame but not the 5.5" frame?

    They might have a perfectly acceptable reason for this and it's not really a big deal as far as I'm concerned, but it seems like an odd choice.
    Gotta get up to get down.
    LMB

  19. #19
    usually cranky
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    does seem kinda weird but like you said, not a big deal.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007
    I love armchair designers.

    What in your opinion would be the benefit of steeper seat tube angles, and what would be the trade-off?
    What a tool!!

    Me saying I don't understand why they do it means I'm an "armchair designer"?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme
    A couple of reasons come to mind.

    • Full seattube (not interrupted).
    • Allows more travel with shorter chainstays.
    • plays well with the 4x4 linkage.


    You've got to look where the seattube puts the saddle at full extension and how that affects the ETT AND where it puts the rider for seated pedaling/climbing. It's really not any different than a steeper ST that starts above the BB. Then, when the saddle drops for descents, it puts it further out of the way (forward) and allows the rider to get behind the saddle (if necessary) much easier. Frankly, I think it's a brilliant way of looking at the design.
    Thank you for a decent response. I understand the concept better now.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaeckerX1
    How about a real question? Why the 1.125 steerer on the Endorphin and a ZS on the Endorphin SL that's compatible with tapered forks? So basically you can run a tapered fork on the 5" frame but not the 5.5" frame?

    They might have a perfectly acceptable reason for this and it's not really a big deal as far as I'm concerned, but it seems like an odd choice.
    ZS headsets are lighter, hence they make sense for shaving weight on the SL. Also, if the rest of the frame design is left the same the shorter stack height of a ZS headset will steepen the head and seat angles and allow the bars to be lower, both of which can be nice for long-travel xc or endurance bike. ZS was not designed to run tapered, hence the extra compatibility is simply a nice side-effect.

    However, I'm guessing the main reason for the difference is just that the SL is new. I bet if/when they redesign the regular version right now it would probably have a 44mm headtube as well

  23. #23
    Knollician
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaeckerX1
    How about a real question? Why the 1.125 steerer on the Endorphin and a ZS on the Endorphin SL that's compatible with tapered forks? So basically you can run a tapered fork on the 5" frame but not the 5.5" frame?

    They might have a perfectly acceptable reason for this and it's not really a big deal as far as I'm concerned, but it seems like an odd choice.
    The Endorphin is being replaced by both the Endorphin SL and Chilcotin. The Endorphin is the old school trail bike.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    The Endorphin is being replaced by both the Endorphin SL and Chilcotin. The Endorphin is the old school trail bike.
    Ah, I thought that was just the listing of all the new bikes. I figured they'd take it off the site if they're no longer producing it.
    Gotta get up to get down.
    LMB

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaeckerX1
    Ah, I thought that was just the listing of all the new bikes. I figured they'd take it off the site if they're no longer producing it.

    Me thinks they still want to support the units on the lbs floors.

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