Results 1 to 43 of 43
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    44

    DHF profile and rim width feedback

    I have 30mm (inner) 29er carbon hoops, and like the DHF exo up front for dry So cal conditions. For all-around use and peddling, I like the reasonable weight of the 2.3 version, but the profile is awfully square and constantly rests in the back of my mind. So I picked up a 2.5WT, which I only have a couple rides on, but other than DH-oriented days, it's a touch heavier than I like for all around use...and the profile "appears: slightly rounder than optimum (I say that carefully cause I'm not good enough to determine "optimum" profile)...I feel like 32-35mm inner would be perfect. But still I feel like the 2.5WT is better profile overall than 2.3 version on my 30mm inner hoops.

    So now I'm contemplating getting a second front wheel so I can confidently run the 2.3DHF up front on the days with more peddling. IDK, but was guessing a 26mm inner with something like a Mavic XA Pro carbon would produce be a better fit for this tire? Hopefully I would see difference in 4mm? Gosh, never would have thought I'd be seeking a rim to fit a tire and not the other way around, but guess that's exactly what I'm proposing (would be nice to have an xtra anyways)...

    Feedback appreciated!

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    11,525
    How about trying some other tires with your existing rim?
    Bontrager XR2 or 3 Team 2.35 is a more rounded higher volume design with 120tpi sidewall.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    44
    Certainly one route I've considered. Right or wrong, i favor Maxxis and I've convinced myself the DHF is the ideal tread design for my conditions, and clearly is the most popular tire with advanced riders on the trails I ride.

    I'll have to have a deeper look at Bontrager, and I still want to lean on the "aggressive Trail" side of things, so I've been giving consideration to:

    1) DHR2 2.4WT (with Minaar cut) as a middle ground between the 2.3 and 2.5DHFs.
    2) Magic Mary 2.35 (I trust new Apex compound would give enough life), though I speculate tread pattern suits loamy conditions better than SoCal trails.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    11,361
    I ran a 2.5" DHF WT on a 32mm internal width rim and the shape cornering performance was fine. No complaints in that department.

    With 30mm inner width rims you could try the non-WT version of the 2.5" DHF if you didn't like the profile of the WT version on that rim.

    To the OPs other point with the wide variety in rim and tire widths you do have to pay some attention to matching both these items so they work well together. And if you want to run 2.3" tires and 2.8" tires on the same wheels you'll have to make some compromises since you can't pick a rim width that will be optimised for both ends of the size spectrum.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WHALENARD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,551
    I like the 2.5 WT MUUUUUCH better on 30mm id rims. So much so that I moved away from using the DHF in favor of larger tires until the WT came out. I think you're right in that 32mm id rims would be ideal for most tires. Syntace nailed this with their new carbon wheelset.

    One thing I've recently observed is that it's not just rim width/cross section that determines a tires profile. How high the bead shoulder and or shape/angle of the sidewall seem to affect this. I have Nobl TR36's that measure 30mm id and NOX Farlow's that measure 29mm id. Visually you can plainly see that the Nobl's are wider, but with identical tires mounted at identical pressures the tires on the NOX's measure and visually look slightly wider. Of course I could be off base here in my understanding of why, perhaps the tires came out of different molds.
    Last edited by WHALENARD; 1 Week Ago at 10:11 AM.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    44
    Interesting. yeah, my plan would be to keep the 2.5WT I have mounted now for endure-oriented days, although I think I'm in agreement that 32 id would be perfect for this tire. Then I get a narrower rim to "best" fit the tire I'd like to run most days (2.3DHF). Not the cheapest solution, but I'd like the luxury to quickly/easily change wheels for the conditions.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EatsDirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    745
    This may not help but I'll throw my thoughts out there...

    Based on most of the guys I ride with, I keep trying the 2.3 DHF on 25mm internal, and keep going back to the butcher. It's too round of a profile, or the center knobs are too tall. The lean angle between falling off the center knobs and hooking up on the side knobs is too much for me, and in kitty litter over concrete it feels a little vague. Perhaps 30mm internal would improve the profile for the 2.3 - for me.

    my .01

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    This may not help but I'll throw my thoughts out there...

    Based on most of the guys I ride with, I keep trying the 2.3 DHF on 25mm internal, and keep going back to the butcher. It's too round of a profile, or the center knobs are too tall. The lean angle between falling off the center knobs and hooking up on the side knobs is too much for me, and in kitty litter over concrete it feels a little vague. Perhaps 30mm internal would improve the profile for the 2.3 - for me.

    my .01
    So the 25mm is too round for your liking, and 30mm is definitely square-as-heck. Interesting. Maybe 27mm internal would be the sweet spot...I also had my eye on the new Nobl TR33 (27mm Inner). certainly splitting hairs here between 27mm and 30mm.

    In regards to the Butcher 2.3 (Grid I assume), that is "more-quare" than the DHF?

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EatsDirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    745
    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    So the 25mm is too round for your liking, and 30mm is definitely square-as-heck. Interesting. Maybe 27mm internal would be the sweet spot...I also had my eye on the new Nobl TR33 (27mm Inner). certainly splitting hairs here between 27mm and 30mm.

    In regards to the Butcher 2.3 (Grid I assume), that is "more-quare" than the DHF?
    I feel like I'm the odd ball given everyone and their mother historically have loved that DHF/rim combo. Maybe I'm just crazy, but I know what I like.

    Definitely Grid, not sure if it's actually more square, but it feels like it to me. It has a lot more side knob flex, but it's predictable when hard on edge or in transition to the edge. I swear the DHF feels like it added a degree or so in the head angle the way it falls off the center knobs. Also, it's almost like I have to push the bike over a little further and counter steer to get it to lock in, in certain situations... if that makes any sense. I could probably learn to live with it but meh...

    These are just my observations/preferences for fairly hard all around tech, flow, conditions, terrain etc for SoCal trail riding. YMMV.
    Last edited by EatsDirt; 1 Week Ago at 01:34 PM.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    44
    I'd be willing to give the Butcher a try, in any rim width. I think the less-then-stellar reputation was earned in the control casing, I suspect. Thanks for the feedback!

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EatsDirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    745
    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    I'd be willing to give the Butcher a try, in any rim width. I think the less-then-stellar reputation was earned in the control casing, I suspect. Thanks for the feedback!
    Worth mentioning... I typically get around three months out of a butcher before the side knobs start to get undercut. I then rotate them to the rear where they bog a little and cook fast. It's part of the reason I really wanted to bond with DHF.

    At least they're cheap...

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    772
    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    I'll have to have a deeper look at Bontrager, and I still want to lean on the "aggressive Trail" side of things, so I've been giving consideration to:
    Consider the Bontrager SE5 Team Issue, and ignore the nonsense suggestions of the XR2/3. It's a true 2.3" on 25-30mm rims, larger than the DHF 2.3, and will still be appropriately-round on a 30mm rim. Tread-wise, the SE5 is probably the closest to a cut DHR2 you can get, without having to make the cuts yourself.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    44
    The SE5 does seem to resemble a cut DHR2. Appears to be a little bit tighter spaced in the corner nobs, which might excel on the harder stuff I would guess. Thanks!

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    772
    FWIW, I really liked the SE5s quite a lot. Ran one as a front with various rears, and as a rear with e13 TRS or Mich Rock'R2 fronts on 24mm internal. US northeast, so lots of hardpack, rocks, roots, loose shale, some loam and some slop. It also wore fairly slowly.

    Also spent a little time with the SE5 front on 32mm rims, but not good conditions to have a real opinion on how the width affected it. It wasn't obviously bad, though.

    I'd buy them again for sure, if I wasn't trying something new.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MSU Alum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,611
    I think you're picking the fly $hit out of the pepper. Don't focus on how the tires look mounted up, focus on how they ride. 30mm ought to be close enough for the tires you're using. If you don't like how they feel, it's probably the tire (or pressure), not the rim width.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    11,525
    If you combine a high volume Bontrager with a wide rim and you're not running dh speeds you can get your traction by lowering the psi you use. Doing this gives you a bigger footprint from a tire with flexible 120tpi sidewalls. The bigger footprint on loose over hardpack allows you to use a tire with lower height smaller knobs. That design is faster rolling.
    This is why in certain terrain where you're not cutting sidewalls from shale an XR2 can be faster and lighter. 693g. You can also look at a 2.6" XR4 Team on a 40mm rim if you think you want bigger knobs.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: beer_coffee_water's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    799
    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    If you combine a high volume Bontrager with a wide rim and you're not running dh speeds you can get your traction by lowering the psi you use. Doing this gives you a bigger footprint from a tire with flexible 120tpi sidewalls. The bigger footprint on loose over hardpack allows you to use a tire with lower height smaller knobs. That design is faster rolling.
    This is why in certain terrain where you're not cutting sidewalls from shale an XR2 can be faster and lighter. 693g. You can also look at a 2.6" XR4 Team on a 40mm rim if you think you want bigger knobs.
    In certain terrain, SoCal, dry conditions mean blown out, loose and deep dust and rock. There is no way an XR2 is going to keep up with a DHF in that world. This suggestion for low pressurized, mid-knob height (at best), flimsy XC tires doen't even make sense is the conditions the OP is riding.

    Tires are not a universal item that can be applied to all conditions much like frame design, components and travel.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EatsDirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    745
    Quote Originally Posted by beer_coffee_water View Post
    In certain terrain, SoCal, dry conditions mean blown out, loose and deep dust and rock. There is no way an XR2 is going to keep up with a DHF in that world. This suggestion for low pressurized, mid-knob height (at best), flimsy XC tires doen't even make sense is the conditions the OP is riding.

    Tires are not a universal item that can be applied to all conditions much like frame design, components and travel.
    Agreed. An XR2 in the front would mean certain death for me. At minimum there'd be a lot of gravel to pick out of where skin once was...

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,219
    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    I have 30mm (inner) 29er carbon hoops, and like the DHF exo up front for dry So cal conditions. For all-around use and peddling, I like the reasonable weight of the 2.3 version, but the profile is awfully square and constantly rests in the back of my mind. So I picked up a 2.5WT, which I only have a couple rides on, but other than DH-oriented days, it's a touch heavier than I like for all around use...and the profile "appears: slightly rounder than optimum (I say that carefully cause I'm not good enough to determine "optimum" profile)...I feel like 32-35mm inner would be perfect. But still I feel like the 2.5WT is better profile overall than 2.3 version on my 30mm inner hoops.

    So now I'm contemplating getting a second front wheel so I can confidently run the 2.3DHF up front on the days with more peddling. IDK, but was guessing a 26mm inner with something like a Mavic XA Pro carbon would produce be a better fit for this tire? Hopefully I would see difference in 4mm? Gosh, never would have thought I'd be seeking a rim to fit a tire and not the other way around, but guess that's exactly what I'm proposing (would be nice to have an xtra anyways)...

    Feedback appreciated!
    Questions, do you lean the bike over in fast turns? Do you feel the front washing out? the DHR2 and DHF are made to be efficient when not leaned over. When you lean in the the turns you feel the side knobs grip and it slows you down, IMHO 30mm rims are ideal for the WT 2.4 & 2.5s. Over squaring or really low pressure makes you ride on the side knobs. IMHO a cut DHR2 is best for wetter climate. DHR is better for dry.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    11,525
    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    Agreed. An XR2 in the front would mean certain death for me. At minimum there'd be a lot of gravel to pick out of where skin once was...
    It would mean certain death until you start to think about taking full advantage of a wide rim, low pressure and the very flexible sidewall. Stuff you've likely not been able to use for traction ever before.

    A tire like that hasn't worked in the past on your skinny rims because you couldn't drop the pressure low enough without getting foldover and an instant loss of front traction resulting in death.
    With a 30 or preferably 35mm inner rim you can't get foldover from the XR2. Go too low in pressure and you'll actually get more grip as the tire scrunches than your rim will allow because of rim hits. Some guys add CushCore to get the lowest pressure range for more grip.
    I guess you got a take a risk and tune for performance. Or not.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    44
    Yeah, I think this DHF 2.5WT is going to work out fine, though more tire than I want for peddly days, hence my wanting to find a little lighter tire potentially suited to a 26mm ID wheel.

    When I've seen the DHR2 2.4WT mounted to 30mm ID rims, I felt like it was the perfect profile, but yeah, splitting hairs.



    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Questions, do you lean the bike over in fast turns? Do you feel the front washing out? the DHR2 and DHF are made to be efficient when not leaned over. When you lean in the the turns you feel the side knobs grip and it slows you down, IMHO 30mm rims are ideal for the WT 2.4 & 2.5s. Over squaring or really low pressure makes you ride on the side knobs. IMHO a cut DHR2 is best for wetter climate. DHR is better for dry.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    44
    I would be willing to give it a go for the peddly days...before the trails get too loose and blown out. I'm planning to order a few new tires I've not tried before and experiment. Thanks for the feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    It would mean certain death until you start to think about taking full advantage of a wide rim, low pressure and the very flexible sidewall. Stuff you've likely not been able to use for traction ever before.

    A tire like that hasn't worked in the past on your skinny rims because you couldn't drop the pressure low enough without getting foldover and an instant loss of front traction resulting in death.
    With a 30 or preferably 35mm inner rim you can't get foldover from the XR2. Go too low in pressure and you'll actually get more grip as the tire scrunches than your rim will allow because of rim hits. Some guys add CushCore to get the lowest pressure range for more grip.
    I guess you got a take a risk and tune for performance. Or not.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,219
    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    Yeah, I think this DHF 2.5WT is going to work out fine, though more tire than I want for peddly days, hence my wanting to find a little lighter tire potentially suited to a 26mm ID wheel.

    When I've seen the DHR2 2.4WT mounted to 30mm ID rims, I felt like it was the perfect profile, but yeah, splitting hairs.
    For the peddly days I run a cut dhr2 and agressor 2.3 on 26mm rims. Gives up a little traction but more efficient and the bike rrsp4onds quicky. The wider tires are for when I'm going faster than I can peddle, need the extra traction or bashing into rocks.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EatsDirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    745
    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    It would mean certain death until you start to think about taking full advantage of a wide rim, low pressure and the very flexible sidewall. Stuff you've likely not been able to use for traction ever before.

    A tire like that hasn't worked in the past on your skinny rims because you couldn't drop the pressure low enough without getting foldover and an instant loss of front traction resulting in death.
    With a 30 or preferably 35mm inner rim you can't get foldover from the XR2. Go too low in pressure and you'll actually get more grip as the tire scrunches than your rim will allow because of rim hits. Some guys add CushCore to get the lowest pressure range for more grip.
    I guess you got a take a risk and tune for performance. Or not.


    Performance to me is running pressures right at the edge of getting rim dings, preventing burps, and a predictable feel cornering. What you describe sounds like a vague, squirmy ride among other things.

    I've ridden 30mm internal rims. They definitely didn't turn an exo casing into a dh casing as far as stability, etc goes as many seem to suggest. Rim strikes are still very much an issue... The theory that you can drop pressures much lower is a farce as I have experienced.

    Cushcore is a different deal completely. That is good stuff, but that also solves the burp, ding, and squirm issues.

    Perhaps our idea of performance is different. You sound like a plus tire candidate... where as I want no part of those things.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,219
    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    It would mean certain death until you start to think about taking full advantage of a wide rim, low pressure and the very flexible sidewall. Stuff you've likely not been able to use for traction ever before.

    A tire like that hasn't worked in the past on your skinny rims because you couldn't drop the pressure low enough without getting foldover and an instant loss of front traction resulting in death.
    With a 30 or preferably 35mm inner rim you can't get foldover from the XR2. Go too low in pressure and you'll actually get more grip as the tire scrunches than your rim will allow because of rim hits. Some guys add CushCore to get the lowest pressure range for more grip.
    I guess you got a take a risk and tune for performance. Or not.
    Every bit of advise from wide rims and low pressure or plus tires wide rims and low pressure is for slow speed riding. And could be damaging and not effective for a lot of riders that would take your advise.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    11,525
    I'm talking 2.35 high volume tire on the front at 12psi-14. I'm saying you can make a hard line change mid corner and if you lose grip it's slow enough to recover. Same with ruts. I'd like to try a 2.6 XR2 on a 40 or 45mm rim when one is available. Bigger footprint on hardpack with loose is where I want to push things. Works in Phoenix with granite dust. Other combos for other terrain could include bigger knobs.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    44
    Yes, I love the aggressor out back. While I'll sometimes run other tires, 90% of the time the Aggressor meets my needs perfectly.

    And yes, that's what I'm talking about...for the person days, I'd like to have an xtra wheel, probably 26mm ID, and run the 2.3 DHF.

    ...just stopped by the local Santa Cruz dealer and took a look at the DHR2 2.4Wt on set if 29mm ID wheels...looked perfect and I like Its "only" 950grams. Gonna give that tire a try!


    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    For the peddly days I run a cut dhr2 and agressor 2.3 on 26mm rims. Gives up a little traction but more efficient and the bike rrsp4onds quicky. The wider tires are for when I'm going faster than I can peddle, need the extra traction or bashing into rocks.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,266
    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    I'm talking 2.35 high volume tire on the front at 12psi-14. I'm saying you can make a hard line change mid corner and if you lose grip it's slow enough to recover. Same with ruts. I'd like to try a 2.6 XR2 on a 40 or 45mm rim when one is available. Bigger footprint on hardpack with loose is where I want to push things. Works in Phoenix with granite dust. Other combos for other terrain could include bigger knobs.
    This just proves that you are slow and you suck. If you could actually corner hard at a respectable speed, you'd rip the front tire clean off the rim if you were running it at 12-14psi, regardless of the rim or tire width. Even with a crappy low traction tire like the XR2 on a wide rim, I can tear it clean off the rim without even trying hard if I ran it at those stupid pressures. Hell, I've torn 3" plus bike tires off of 40-50mm rims at 16psi.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EatsDirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    745
    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    at 12psi-14.
    This confirms we are looking for different things out of our bikes...

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jeremy3220's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    466
    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post

    ...just stopped by the local Santa Cruz dealer and took a look at the DHR2 2.4Wt on set if 29mm ID wheels...looked perfect and I like Its "only" 950grams. Gonna give that tire a try!
    That's what I'm running on my Hightower LT, works very well. I'm 205 lbs and run 25F/28R psi. Sometimes having the minion on rear is over kill but man do they hook up. They don't require too much lean over and they're not too square either.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    628
    Anyone tried a semi-slick up front? Braking traction would obviously suck so it would take a certain type of trail for it to work on, but if the edge knobs start to engage soon enough then the "oh shit" feeling shouldn't be too great before it starts to bite.

    There is no getting around the fact that if you want a tyre to roll faster then you need to give up something. Either you move to an XC tyre, or you sacrifice grip whilst the tyre is stood up straight and rely heavily on side knobs.

    Also look at whether you really need a soft compound tyre up front. In my experience, going for dual-compound (harder) tyres doesn't give up much grip at all in certain conditions, particularly dry loose stuff where the tread pattern is the key to digging in and giving traction - just be careful with rocks and roots, especially if they're wet!

    Depending on how far you're prepared to go (read: how much grip you're prepared to give up), you could look at the Rekon 29x2.6. At < 800g it's a light tyre, it'll feel light and fast too, but of course that comes with a cost.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Gman086's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    4,361
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    For the peddly days I run a cut dhr2 and agressor 2.3 on 26mm rims. Gives up a little traction but more efficient and the bike rrsp4onds quicky.
    I'll probably run that same combo this summer after our rain season ends.

    RAG2 I have extensive experience with both the DHF 2.3 and 2.5 WT on 29mm ID rims. The 2.3's are just plain not enough tire if you ride fast as they will break loose in hard corners but they roll well and are a good aggressive XC front tire. I have yet to blow out the 2.5 WT on any corner. It hewks like CRAZY and the very slightly rounded profile is NOT a problem, trust me - you are being anal over the rim width, it just does not matter that much! The problem with the 2.5 WT version is that it is heavy and SLOW for use on a trail bike. Ideally Maxxis should make a 2.4 DHF with slightly shorter knobs (with modified Si rubber to help wear) for trail use. May have to give the Bonty's a try this year, everyone I know who runs them likes them.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    11,525
    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    This just proves that you are slow and you suck. If you could actually corner hard at a respectable speed, you'd rip the front tire clean off the rim if you were running it at 12-14psi, regardless of the rim or tire width. Even with a crappy low traction tire like the XR2 on a wide rim, I can tear it clean off the rim without even trying hard if I ran it at those stupid pressures. Hell, I've torn 3" plus bike tires off of 40-50mm rims at 16psi.
    Yup you're correct..
    That's why I said on another thread not dh speeds.
    My fault in forgetting to include that in this talk. It does make a big difference.
    OP said SCal so I took no mountain dh speeds for granted.
    It's all about the speed you can get out of the trails you have. Mine are shorter ups and downs without extended elevation change, so no mountains unfortunately.
    I have climbing spaced out periodically throughout the length of the trail.
    Carrying speed is very important. 12-14 is front tire only.
    I want the most speed available and that's why I go for faster rolling smaller shorter knobs.
    Big knobs are s l o w. Especially through rocks and roots that aren't part of big drops.

    I'm fast as I can get with what's available and something you ride because you need it for higher speed would only make me slower.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,266
    Quote Originally Posted by phreeky View Post
    Anyone tried a semi-slick up front? Braking traction would obviously suck so it would take a certain type of trail for it to work on, but if the edge knobs start to engage soon enough then the "oh shit" feeling shouldn't be too great before it starts to bite.
    I run the Kenda BBG on both wheels on one of my bikes. With the right trail conditions it's pretty awesome. On hardpack, some loose over hard, or rocks, it's fast as hell and corners great as long as you know what you're doing. But if it gets wet or you have a deeper layer of moondust, loose dirt, or loam on the trails you'll have to plan your braking well in advance and ride accordingly. Either that or grow a massive set of balls and hope the cornering knobs hold so you don't fly off the trail and die.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,219
    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    I'll probably run that same combo this summer after our rain season ends.

    RAG2 I have extensive experience with both the DHF 2.3 and 2.5 WT on 29mm ID rims. The 2.3's are just plain not enough tire if you ride fast as they will break loose in hard corners but they roll well and are a good aggressive XC front tire. I have yet to blow out the 2.5 WT on any corner. It hewks like CRAZY and the very slightly rounded profile is NOT a problem, trust me - you are being anal over the rim width, it just does not matter that much! The problem with the 2.5 WT version is that it is heavy and SLOW for use on a trail bike. Ideally Maxxis should make a 2.4 DHF with slightly shorter knobs (with modified Si rubber to help wear) for trail use. May have to give the Bonty's a try this year, everyone I know who runs them likes them.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    It's a great aggressive XC combo if you're peddling a lot to keep speed up, but still like to catch air and turn hard.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: beer_coffee_water's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    799
    Just mounted 2.5 DHF and Aggressor on 30mm internal rims. I only had them on mild XC trails that were hardpack mixed with deep dust and sand. They worked so much better than the Rock'r and Grip'r they replaced. I think my rims are too wide for how those Miches are made.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    44
    Yeah, I hot out for a long down hill yesterday and be sticking with the 2.5 DHF WT for sure, for down-oriented days. Now just need to settle on a faster rolling tire for pearly days, though of course don't want to sacrifice much grip. Sounds like the Bontys are a promising contender.

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    44
    The XR4 Team Issue maybe? They would seem to fit the bill of an all-around better roller while giving up minimal corner traction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    I'll probably run that same combo this summer after our rain season ends.

    RAG2 I have extensive experience with both the DHF 2.3 and 2.5 WT on 29mm ID rims. The 2.3's are just plain not enough tire if you ride fast as they will break loose in hard corners but they roll well and are a good aggressive XC front tire. I have yet to blow out the 2.5 WT on any corner. It hewks like CRAZY and the very slightly rounded profile is NOT a problem, trust me - you are being anal over the rim width, it just does not matter that much! The problem with the 2.5 WT version is that it is heavy and SLOW for use on a trail bike. Ideally Maxxis should make a 2.4 DHF with slightly shorter knobs (with modified Si rubber to help wear) for trail use. May have to give the Bonty's a try this year, everyone I know who runs them likes them.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jeremy3220's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    466
    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    The XR4 Team Issue maybe? They would seem to fit the bill of an all-around better roller while giving up minimal corner traction.
    I like the XR4 Team Issues but the difference in cornering traction between it and the DHF or DHR2 isn't minimal.

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    44
    Darn, You mean no free lunch? Ha[

    QUOTE=jerempy3220;13624967]I like the XR4 Team Issues but the difference in cornering traction between it and the DHF or DHR2 isn't minimal.[/QUOTE]

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    772
    Quote Originally Posted by phreeky View Post
    Anyone tried a semi-slick up front? Braking traction would obviously suck so it would take a certain type of trail for it to work on, but if the edge knobs start to engage soon enough then the "oh shit" feeling shouldn't be too great before it starts to bite.
    Depending on the trails, a Vittoria Morsa (TNT G+) might work well. I've only run it as a rear tire, but I know folks who like it on both ends in dry weather. It has enough of a paddle to make it a bit more of a generalist than a true semi-slick while still being very fast-rolling. I slot it in between an Aggressor and a Slaughter in my tire wardrobe.

    It also inflates a fair bit bigger than a 2.3 Aggressor, which is nice. Downside is, with the center tread so shallow and spaced apart, the center carcass is much more vulnerable to cuts than something like an Aggressor.

    For myself, it gives up too much braking on the front. But the SE5 front/Morsa rear is probably my favorite summer all-day pedaling setup, as long as the rocks aren't too sharp and descents don't justify a meatier tread.

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,219
    Quote Originally Posted by lazarus2405 View Post
    Depending on the trails, a Vittoria Morsa (TNT G+) might work well. I've only run it as a rear tire, but I know folks who like it on both ends in dry weather. It has enough of a paddle to make it a bit more of a generalist than a true semi-slick while still being very fast-rolling. I slot it in between an Aggressor and a Slaughter in my tire wardrobe.

    It also inflates a fair bit bigger than a 2.3 Aggressor, which is nice. Downside is, with the center tread so shallow and spaced apart, the center carcass is much more vulnerable to cuts than something like an Aggressor.

    For myself, it gives up too much braking on the front. But the SE5 front/Morsa rear is probably my favorite summer all-day pedaling setup, as long as the rocks aren't too sharp and descents don't justify a meatier tread.
    The Morsa and Maxxis Forkaster are good aggressive XC tires. I'll use a Forkaster for the rear if lots of leaves or if I might roll through damp dirt that will pack up an Aggressor

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    I have 30mm (inner) 29er carbon hoops, and like the DHF exo up front for dry So cal conditions. For all-around use and peddling, I like the reasonable weight of the 2.3 version, but the profile is awfully square and constantly rests in the back of my mind. So I picked up a 2.5WT, which I only have a couple rides on, but other than DH-oriented days, it's a touch heavier than I like for all around use...and the profile "appears: slightly rounder than optimum (I say that carefully cause I'm not good enough to determine "optimum" profile)...I feel like 32-35mm inner would be perfect. But still I feel like the 2.5WT is better profile overall than 2.3 version on my 30mm inner hoops.

    So now I'm contemplating getting a second front wheel so I can confidently run the 2.3DHF up front on the days with more peddling. IDK, but was guessing a 26mm inner with something like a Mavic XA Pro carbon would produce be a better fit for this tire? Hopefully I would see difference in 4mm? Gosh, never would have thought I'd be seeking a rim to fit a tire and not the other way around, but guess that's exactly what I'm proposing (would be nice to have an xtra anyways)...

    Feedback appreciated!
    I run 2.3Ē DHF on 24mm internal width DT Swiss XMC spline wheels and I feel the profile is about perfect. They roll nice and corner well. I tired 2.5wt on the 24mmi rims and I felt like there was a huge dead spot when leaning over before the side knobs grabbed.

    Maxxis says the 2.5Ē wt tires are optimized for 35mm internal width rims but can run fine on rims as narrow as 30mm.

    Personally I donít want 35mm rims because of the weight and you will notice the weight reduction of 24mm rims as much as the tire change.

    The only down side of 2.3Ē tires is that you feel the small rocks and roots more. I find the traction difference is negligible or I donít ride hard enough to find the edge of traction on either tire 99% of the time.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-22-2017, 07:27 AM
  2. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 07-18-2017, 01:54 PM
  3. Rim width/tyre profile question
    By tkm16 in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-13-2016, 11:53 AM
  4. Replies: 29
    Last Post: 12-17-2014, 12:53 PM
  5. 30mm width rim an upgrade from 24mm width rim?
    By metrotuned in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-22-2012, 07:30 AM

Members who have read this thread: 134

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

mtbr.com and the ConsumerReview Network are business units of Invenda Corporation

(C) Copyright 1996-2018. All Rights Reserved.