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  1. #1
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    Definition of "All Mountain"

    What types of riding does all mountain cover? How is it different from cross country? I'm just new to this trying to sort things out.

  2. #2
    Knomer
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    It's a marketing term for an activity called "mountain biking". As far as I can tell, mountain bikes were originally designed to 'go anywhere', which seems to be the key principle for all-mountain riding. The average mountain bike that is designed to 'go anywhere' usually weighs around 30 pounds, and this rule of thumb has applied in 1992, 2002, and now in 2012. You just get much more technology packed into those 30 pounds these days.

    The name of this market segment may change over time, but the activity will always be general mountain biking.
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    <---- Don't feed them

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    AM is where you put flats on an xc bike and whine about climbing but brag about how high you can jump

  5. #5
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    Suspension Travel:
    4inchs = xc
    5inchs = trail
    6inchs = am
    7inchs = mini dh/ Freeride
    8+inchs = DH

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatcm View Post
    AM is where you put flats on an xc bike and whine about climbing but brag about how high you can jump
    Thanks for pigeonholing me dude!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post

    The name of this market segment may change over time, but the activity will always be general mountain biking.
    Thank you.

  8. #8
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    Please Noooooo...
    Whats this line for?

  9. #9
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    This seems like a troll post.


    but

    an AM bike is burly enough for jumps, drops, bike park, DH, etc, but is still able to be pedaled uphill rather decent.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyHuynh View Post
    Suspension Travel:
    4inchs = xc
    5inchs = trail
    6inchs = am
    7inchs = mini dh/ Freeride
    8+inchs = DH
    What's the difference between "xc" and "trail"...?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by In-Yo-Grill View Post
    What's the difference between "xc" and "trail"...?
    About 1 inch!

    Thanks, try the Veal and don't forget to tip your Waiters!
    Try this: HTFU

  12. #12
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    The ways companies define the different types of mountain biking and the ways customers define them can differ greatly. In general (and I stress "general"), all-mountain encompasses more types of trails than XC, Freeride, Enduro or whatever else you want to call a type of riding. The idea behind an all-mountain bike is that you can pretty much ride whatever type of trail you want on it. An all-mountain bike won't be the fastest or most efficient bike over most types of terrain, but it will perform fairly well on a wider variety of trails than any other type of mountain bike. An all-mountain bike essentially lets you ride the whole mountain. It's a great option if you're heading to a big trail network with lots of variety, or if you're going someplace new and you're not sure what the terrain will be like.
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  13. #13
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    This is my take on it:

    XC = Racing laps around a track.
    Trail = Just going out and riding for the fun of it.
    AM = Similar to trail riding but you are constantly on the look out for technical routes.
    Freeride = Riding Technical lines just to see if it can be done.
    DH = Get down the hill quicker than anyone else.

    I think most mountain bikers fall into the trail/AM categories.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    About 1 inch!

    Thanks, try the Veal and don't forget to tip your Waiters!
    Sooooo...you're saying that XC bikes are just 1" short of greatness...Bwahahahahhaha!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by In-Yo-Grill View Post
    Sooooo...you're saying that XC bikes are just 1" short of greatness...Bwahahahahhaha!!!!!
    I actually have no hand in this argument because my bike has a sum total of 0" of travel anywhere yet I consider myself not a roadie but a hardcore, AM/Light FR rider. I do the occasional XC style ride and 24hr races too all on the same bike. So not sure where 0" fits into that metric but in case anyone notices you missed a criteria in there.

    How about this instead of measuring a genre by how much travel one can buy it goes like this:

    Recreational = shorter bikes, upright position, medium length top tubes, mix of paths, roads and singletrack with minimal or no jumps, drops or technical sections. Bikes can weigh from high 20's to high 30's and are generally lower end components and cost brackets but not limited to that.

    XC = longer bikes, stretched out position, longer top tubes, rides a mix of trails with fast singletrack, long ascents and descents, minimal jumps and drops and technical sections but not limited to that. Bikes can weigh from low teens to ~30lbs.

    AM/Trail= Medium length bikes, more upright position and mid length top tubes, ride a mix of trails with singletrack, long ascents and descents, good amount of jumps and drops and technical sections but not limited to that. Bikes can weigh from low 20's to mid 30's.

    FR=Medium length bikes, very upright position and short top tubes, ride a mix of trails with singletrack, short ascents or lift access and long descents with a lot of jumps, drops, and technical sections but not limited to that. Bikes can weigh from the high 20 to the low 40's.

    DH=Long bikes, very upright position, and short top tubes, ride a mix of trails with singletrack, lift access mainly, long descents with a lot of jumps, drops and technical sections but not limited to that. Bikes can weigh from low 30's to high 40's depending on the course and focus of the terrain.

    Modifiers = RACE added to any genre. Time is goal over length of course, points can be added for tricks. All genres except Recreational.
    Try this: HTFU

  16. #16
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    How can I determine if a bike is an XC, Trail, or All Mountain? I just acquired a 2010 Cannondale F5 last October and wondering where it fits categorically. Would it be the frame, suspension, and/or components that determine the level of riding (jumping, technical level of terrain, ie). Thanks - still learning .

    Edit: Lol! Thanks rockcrusher for the post. I should have waited for you to finish typing.
    Last edited by yaga; 02-10-2012 at 08:04 AM.
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    Thanks alot for the replys. Rockcrusher your response was very helpful. I feel that I fit in the XC class for my style of riding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    I actually have no hand in this argument because my bike has a sum total of 0" of travel anywhere yet I consider myself not a roadie but a hardcore, AM/Light FR rider. I do the occasional XC style ride and 24hr races too all on the same bike. So not sure where 0" fits into that metric but in case anyone notices you missed a criteria in there.

    How about this instead of measuring a genre by how much travel one can buy it goes like this:

    Recreational = shorter bikes, upright position, medium length top tubes, mix of paths, roads and singletrack with minimal or no jumps, drops or technical sections. Bikes can weigh from high 20's to high 30's and are generally lower end components and cost brackets but not limited to that.

    XC = longer bikes, stretched out position, longer top tubes, rides a mix of trails with fast singletrack, long ascents and descents, minimal jumps and drops and technical sections but not limited to that. Bikes can weigh from low teens to ~30lbs.

    AM/Trail= Medium length bikes, more upright position and mid length top tubes, ride a mix of trails with singletrack, long ascents and descents, good amount of jumps and drops and technical sections but not limited to that. Bikes can weigh from low 20's to mid 30's.

    FR=Medium length bikes, very upright position and short top tubes, ride a mix of trails with singletrack, short ascents or lift access and long descents with a lot of jumps, drops, and technical sections but not limited to that. Bikes can weigh from the high 20 to the low 40's.

    DH=Long bikes, very upright position, and short top tubes, ride a mix of trails with singletrack, lift access mainly, long descents with a lot of jumps, drops and technical sections but not limited to that. Bikes can weigh from low 30's to high 40's depending on the course and focus of the terrain.

    Modifiers = RACE added to any genre. Time is goal over length of course, points can be added for tricks. All genres except Recreational.

    This is best description right here.
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  19. #19
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    my "in my 40s" take on this last year..pretty simple without getting marketing/tech babble involved and using just your own chickenskin levels as a your guide.
    xc - xtra careful
    am - ambulance maybe
    dh - definitely hospital
    fr - forget recovery

    on a certain bittersweet day you may experience all

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 53119 View Post
    my "in my 40s" take on this last year..pretty simple without getting marketing/tech babble involved and using just your own chickenskin levels as a your guide.
    xc - xtra careful
    am - ambulance maybe
    dh - definitely hospital
    fr - forget recovery

    on a certain bittersweet day you may experience all
    I like it!

    My definition -- there is no such thing as "all mountain" riding -- it is just riding.

    But an 'all mountain' bike is one you can ride competently and confidently in all circumstances, from an xc ride to downhill runs at the resort. Maybe not the best bike for any circumstance, but one that will get the job done nonetheless.
    '11 Specialized Enduro Expert for the trails
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatcm View Post
    AM is where you put flats on an xc bike and whine about climbing but brag about how high you can jump
    best answer

  22. #22
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    Too much words and letters in those descriptions

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatcm View Post
    Too much words and letters in those descriptions
    true but with a lack of skill or skill set. one needs explained excuses for one's informed choices and/or purchases.

  24. #24
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    Not sure if this is a troll post, but here's my 2 cents.

    As someone who has been riding mtb for close to 20 years, these latest descriptions come off as pretty moronic, marketing-generated micro-categorizations. The kind of riding people are calling xc, trail and all-mountain was just mountain biking or cross country when I started riding.

    We used to race cross country races because it was fun, and got us out to different trail systems. In those days, xc races were not road races on packed dirt. We loved charging up hills so we could fly down the hills. If there were bumps or jumps that we could catch air on, better. Our bikes were built light, and so were we. We did this all on what people would call xc race bikes today. We didn't make excuses for not doing things because of our equipment - we too busy riding the hell out of everything & having fun.

    The categorization is pretty simple to me.

    1. If you're riding on trails, putting in miles up & down, you're doing cross country. There are a wide range of bikes that can do this. Yes, XC racing today is a different animal, but it's all the same sh*t.

    2. If you are gravity oriented, and tend to hike or chairlift up trails to bomb down, that's downhill. Again, a wide variety of bikes for this.

    There are other specializations like, trials & jumping but whatever.

    Don't believe the hype. It's all about having fun.

  25. #25
    meow meow
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    all mountain aka xc aka trail aka mountain biking.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    I actually have no hand in this argument because my bike has a sum total of 0" of travel anywhere yet I consider myself not a roadie but a hardcore, AM/Light FR rider. I do the occasional XC style ride and 24hr races too all on the same bike. So not sure where 0" fits into that metric but in case anyone notices you missed a criteria in there.

    How about this instead of measuring a genre by how much travel one can buy it goes like this:

    Recreational = shorter bikes, upright position, medium length top tubes, mix of paths, roads and singletrack with minimal or no jumps, drops or technical sections. Bikes can weigh from high 20's to high 30's and are generally lower end components and cost brackets but not limited to that.

    XC = longer bikes, stretched out position, longer top tubes, rides a mix of trails with fast singletrack, long ascents and descents, minimal jumps and drops and technical sections but not limited to that. Bikes can weigh from low teens to ~30lbs.

    AM/Trail= Medium length bikes, more upright position and mid length top tubes, ride a mix of trails with singletrack, long ascents and descents, good amount of jumps and drops and technical sections but not limited to that. Bikes can weigh from low 20's to mid 30's.

    FR=Medium length bikes, very upright position and short top tubes, ride a mix of trails with singletrack, short ascents or lift access and long descents with a lot of jumps, drops, and technical sections but not limited to that. Bikes can weigh from the high 20 to the low 40's.

    DH=Long bikes, very upright position, and short top tubes, ride a mix of trails with singletrack, lift access mainly, long descents with a lot of jumps, drops and technical sections but not limited to that. Bikes can weigh from low 30's to high 40's depending on the course and focus of the terrain.

    Modifiers = RACE added to any genre. Time is goal over length of course, points can be added for tricks. All genres except Recreational.
    It should also be said that you can ride pretty much an XC bike through a AM trail and an AM trail bike as an XC bike. You can modify a Recreational bike with a few select components to work as an XC through AM bike but once you cross the FR territory you are best off with an FR specific bike. However you can ride down the list until your hearts content with an FR bike, even an DH bike if you see fit.

    Once you cross into FR territory the bike begins to take a much larger beating and since climbing is less of a concern weight becomes less of a concern over strength. So repurposing a AM or an XC bike to handle the type of riding a FR rider will do is just asking for damage to you, your wallet and you bike.

    And the RACE category is usually reserved for specialty bikes, very lightweight bikes that are suited only to their genre and are sometimes not even used for training. Light wheels, tires, frames, parts etc define the extremes of the genre and even if you have the scratch for a 16lbs XC bike or a 24lbs AM bike or a 28lbs FR bike or a 32lbs DH bike it really isn't a super viable option as an everyday mountain bike for whatever your genre is. Most of the time racers have their race bike and then their training bike, which will be a similar bike but built to survive repeated runs and crashes and 1000s of miles of training and shuttle runs and abuse.
    Try this: HTFU

  27. #27
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    What about "over mountain". See how moronic this is?

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    funny posts and most everyone has an opinion about it. there really is no such thing as XC or AM as a riding classification. FR & DH, are valid types of riding. If it isn't FR or DH or on the road/paved path, it is basically trail riding.

    rockcrusher pretty much hits the nail on the head but to simplify even more...
    XC bikes are bikes built to be light weight and fast
    Trail bikes are xc bikes that are not on a diet, general mtn bikes
    AM bikes are built to take bigger hits with as little sacrifice to pedaling it uphill as possible
    FR built for extreme air and abuse
    DH built to excel at riding DH courses
    DJ built to jump, period.

    don't let your bike define your riding but let your riding define your bike. use the tool that is best for the job.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro View Post
    there really is no such thing as XC or AM as a riding classification. FR & DH, are valid types of riding. If it isn't FR or DH or on the road/paved path, it is basically trail riding.
    Not so fast.

    Cross country in mountain biking is analagous in cross country in skiing and running. Yes, it means riding on trails, which in the most broad sense is mountain biking.

    Today, cross country means something else to a lot of people, but I prefer the broad definition.

    Anyone want to go for an all-mountain run with me?

  30. #30
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    I consider All Mountain like the competitions. Riding up extended climbs, usually fire road for 30 min +, followed by extended downhills 30 min+. The bike for shuttle runs if you want to ride the climbs.

    General up down stuff is trail. Doesn't necessarily mean easier terrain but the bike needs to be set up differently for flatter corners and pedalling efficiency. Steeper head angles , shorter wheelbase and chain stays helps.It's also lighter as it involves multiple sharp steep climbs. A long travel xc style bike like Trance x , mojo, blur LT.

    AM bike can be heavier[ not a problem on extended slow climbs], steeper seat tube angles[ for extended climbs], and longer travel and wheelbase.


    Freeride bike for those taking the shuttles or pushing up the hills.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    I consider All Mountain like the competitions. Riding up extended climbs, usually fire road for 30 min +, followed by extended downhills 30 min+. The bike for shuttle runs if you want to ride the climbs.

    General up down stuff is trail. Doesn't necessarily mean easier terrain but the bike needs to be set up differently for flatter corners and pedalling efficiency. Steeper head angles , shorter wheelbase and chain stays helps.It's also lighter as it involves multiple sharp steep climbs. A long travel xc style bike like Trance x , mojo, blur LT.

    AM bike can be heavier[ not a problem on extended slow climbs], steeper seat tube angles[ for extended climbs], and longer travel and wheelbase.
    Not to get into a pissing match but your first statement just proved the point I made in my opening statement. What if we're talking about a 30 mile epic and the ride consists of long climbs followed by long descents, then repeats... and, there is little opportunity for drops, log rides, boulders / big step-downs, etc. Is this now a XC ride? It would be general up down, trail riding by your definition.

    The point that I was trying to make was that outside of FR, DH and DJ, the rest of the mountain bike riding is "trail riding". As in, you are riding a bike on trails, usually single track.

    To further prove my point, you go on to start talking ALL ABOUT THE BIKE. In all logical sense, XC, Trail and AM are definitions of types of bikes and not types of riding. Some locales warrant an AM bike while in other areas an AM bike would be overkill.

    Where things get blurry is when people begin labeling a specific type of trail riding as AM or XC because the preferred tool for those trails are a XC or AM bike.

    Edit: what if I'm a total puss and slowly work my way through the same trail on my XC bike that you just rode through on your "AM" bike? Was I XC riding, AM riding or trail riding?

  32. #32
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    Isn't the entirety of mountain biking done on trails?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro View Post
    funny posts and most everyone has an opinion about it. there really is no such thing as XC or AM as a riding classification. FR & DH, are valid types of riding. If it isn't FR or DH or on the road/paved path, it is basically trail riding.

    don't let your bike define your riding but let your riding define your bike. use the tool that is best for the job.
    I know, it is a silly, senseless semantic argument over marketing terms and word use, but I'm bored ...

    I agree most with classifying the bike as its fitness for particular purposes, although calling something an XC trail or a DH trail does give me some indication of what you mean, so I get that, too. Except for "AM trail" -- that term just sounds silly to me. I can and have picked my way down some pretty gnarly trails, eg, Fireswamp at Deer Valley, Sticks n Stones (or something like that) at Northstar, and although I rode 99% of it, no one would have said I was downhilling! Likewise, I've had some fast but mostly attached to the ground runs down Livewire, and I definitely wasn't freeriding like most in front and behind me.

    But if I really wanted to pound down a steep rocky run, I would probably be best off on a DH bike. If I wanted to huck the tables and gaps, a FR bike would probably help me do this best. If I wanted to ride 30 miles around a lake as energetically and fast as possible, an XC bike is probably my best tool. If I want to shuttle, but still have to climb a couple thousand vert, and/or I want to be able to hit all the "optionals" on the way down, an AM bike would probably best suit my desires and intentions.

    Note: if you want to see how silly the terms can be, try to explain it to someone who knows nothing about mountain biking, in any of its varied and lovely forms. My uncle and his 16 yr old son came over to watch the Superbowl, and were very inquisitive about my Enduro sitting in the corner, about what kind of bike he should get, how much he had to spend to get a bike, etc. My explanation of the different flavors wasn't very helpful, I fear ("wait, why can't you ride up the hill" or "why can't you go fast down the hill ..."). After all, the kid just wants to ride a bike on trails!
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tystevens View Post
    I know, it is a silly, senseless semantic argument over marketing terms and word use, but I'm bored ...

    I agree most with classifying the bike as its fitness for particular purposes, although calling something an XC trail or a DH trail does give me some indication of what you mean, so I get that, too. Except for "AM trail" -- that term just sounds silly to me. I can and have picked my way down some pretty gnarly trails, eg, Fireswamp at Deer Valley, Sticks n Stones (or something like that) at Northstar, and although I rode 99% of it, no one would have said I was downhilling! Likewise, I've had some fast but mostly attached to the ground runs down Livewire, and I definitely wasn't freeriding like most in front and behind me.

    But if I really wanted to pound down a steep rocky run, I would probably be best off on a DH bike. If I wanted to huck the tables and gaps, a FR bike would probably help me do this best. If I wanted to ride 30 miles around a lake as energetically and fast as possible, an XC bike is probably my best tool. If I want to shuttle, but still have to climb a couple thousand vert, and/or I want to be able to hit all the "optionals" on the way down, an AM bike would probably best suit my desires and intentions.

    Note: if you want to see how silly the terms can be, try to explain it to someone who knows nothing about mountain biking, in any of its varied and lovely forms. My uncle and his 16 yr old son came over to watch the Superbowl, and were very inquisitive about my Enduro sitting in the corner, about what kind of bike he should get, how much he had to spend to get a bike, etc. My explanation of the different flavors wasn't very helpful, I fear ("wait, why can't you ride up the hill" or "why can't you go fast down the hill ..."). After all, the kid just wants to ride a bike on trails!
    well put.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuartfleming View Post
    AM = Similar to trail riding but you are constantly on the look out for technical routes.
    This.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dump View Post
    Isn't the entirety of mountain biking done on trails?
    Yes, but you need the right bike for those trail. I laugh so hard on the inside when I see someone on a 6 inch bike when they are clearly trail riding and NOT all-mountain riding.

    One dude was on a hardtail, but dressed for trail, then he had some dirt jumper shoes and a cross-country helmet and he was pushing the bike up a hill, between the 29er wheels and the camelback.... I was like whoa, schizophrenic much?

    entirely sarcasm

    I hate marketing. Ride what you enjoy. If you are a noob, then understand that certain types of bikes have very specific specialties, regardless of suspension travel. Also be aware that marketing hype generally increases proportionally with price, while performance (unless you are elite enough for it to matter) generally increases at digressive rate.

    The beautiful pleasure of endophins+adrenaline+2 wheels, trees and dirt should not be spoiled by questioning whether you would enjoy your ride more if you had 10mm more suspension travel or a half-pound lighter bike or.....
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

  37. #37
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    It's pretty simple, just take an original mountain bike and improve it for the type of riding you want to do:

    - make it faster by making it lighter for longer rides and you get a bike that is: XC
    - don't change much on it, just go ride it on your favorite trails for fun: TRAIL
    - make it handle rougher trails by giving it more travel & bigger brakes: AM
    - make it handle big jumps and lots of technical riding: FR
    - make it repeatedly survive high speed runs down the hills: DH

    It's just they way mountain bikes have evolved, marketing just tries to satisfy every buyer. Go ride what you like.

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    So we've now discovered that everyone here is very willing to feed the trolls, and yet we're no closer to a usable definition. Why? Perhaps Uncle Six Pack put it best right above me. Or perhaps the great Steve Winwood put it better?


  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdman829 View Post
    So we've now discovered that everyone here is very willing to feed the trolls, and yet we're no closer to a usable definition. Why? Perhaps Uncle Six Pack put it best right above me. Or perhaps the great Steve Winwood put it better?
    Just because a question doesn't have an answer doesn't mean it isn't fun to think about! Even if the discussion is brought on by a troll.

    I mean, every sport has all types of people involved in it; at one end of the spectrum are those who couldn't care less about the gear, the other end is the gearhead who likes the gear as much as the sport itself. Some people have one bike they just ride, others really enjoy having what they think is the exact right bike for every ride. Who is to say which approach is better? I dunno, but its fun to banter back and forth about it on a slow Friday afternoon.
    '11 Specialized Enduro Expert for the trails
    '13 Felt Z4 for the road

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Six Pack View Post
    I hate marketing. Ride what you enjoy. If you are a noob, then understand that certain types of bikes have very specific specialties, regardless of suspension travel.
    I definitely get what you're saying, but in my view, bikes aren't as specific or specialty-oriented as they seem -- I think that is the marketing issue, or what 'they' want consumers to think. You can ride just about any bike just about anywhere you want to.
    I guarantee you'll have more fun than if you stayed home because you 'didn't have the right bike' for the trail.
    '11 Specialized Enduro Expert for the trails
    '13 Felt Z4 for the road

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tystevens View Post
    I definitely get what you're saying, but in my view, bikes aren't as specific or specialty-oriented as they seem ...
    By "certain types of bikes" I was referring to highly specialized builds such as DH bikes (miserable to pedal anywhere), dirt jumpers (many have no front brake, maybe singlespeed), and things like that. If you know for a fact that you be jumping or dropping big hits or plan on racing competitively, then you may need something special. If you are experienced enough that you know you exactly what you need (want/enjoy), then go get it.

    For anyone else, any normal hardtail or normal medium-travel full-sus (which are offered by all leading manufacturers) will suit-simply choose a price point you are comfortable with and pull out the credit card.
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

  42. #42
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    AM bikes are freeride bikes that were designed to be pedalled uphill. Trail bikes are XC bikes without twitchy race geometry. XC bikes are for racing XC. Most bikes are "trail" bikes, 100-150, sometimes 160mm.

    I think we all know what AM is, we just like to play the word game and pretend we dont

  43. #43
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    My definition of all mountain X3
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Definition of &quot;All Mountain&quot;-carbon1-002.jpg  


  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    AM bikes are freeride bikes that were designed to be pedalled uphill. Trail bikes are XC bikes without twitchy race geometry. XC bikes are for racing XC. Most bikes are "trail" bikes, 100-150, sometimes 160mm.

    I think we all know what AM is, we just like to play the word game and pretend we dont
    See I don't think you do, for whatever reason people continue to define bikes by what they are not how they are ridden. AM bikes are bikes ridden on AM trails but that doesn't stop me from taking my XC race bike down those trails and having as much fun as a person a marketed AM bike.

    I ride a rigid bike. Where do I fit in, I have no travel front or rear but regularly ride AM trails and sometimes take the FR lines on these trails. Long descents, jumps, extremely technical lines and drops. My bike has classic geometry, slacker head angle, steeper seat tube.

    The problem when defining something by what someone rides and not what and how they ride is that you unfairly judge people by what they choose to ride and not how they ride. I think that is the beef many people have with the AM crowd. You judge whether I am an AM rider by the fact that my bike has X" of travel and a dropper post and if someone doesn't roll with your marketing influenced determination of AM then you give them grief call them trail riders or even XC riders. As has been pointed out numerous times, whether it is Greg Minear ripping it up on a CX bike or trials guys doing their thing on a road bike, it isn't about how much money you can spend or what you spend it on, it is what you do with your bike that defines you as a rider.

    This concept always reminds me of when I used to ride back in this area that was bound by a reall huge technical rock face. Trucks of all kinds would come and try that face to see whether they could make it or not. A lot of times modified jeeps had no problem, stock SUV's died horrible deaths and pickup trucks were 50-50 (too light in the bed). As we rode on through a big group of Jeeps we stopped at a water hole and a couple of jeeps came through. Then later on the trail a VW baja bug came through. We were astonished that it made it through but figured it just skated through and would make its way out an easier exit, yet there we were at the rock on our way back when up comes the Baja through the rocks and out past the waiting and failed line of purpose built offroaders. Just shows you that skill trumps technology on a lot of fronts.

    AM is a skill set not a technology. Jumping to the next level requires the skills more than the bike. Recreational to XC more skill. XC to AM more skill. AM to FR more skill. FR to DH more skill. From Rec to AM you can pretty much ride the bike you started with, as you learn skills you might upgrade or you might not, depends what you started with. From AM to DH you might upgrade or you might not, depends how fast and big you want to go.

    As Lance Armstrong said "it is not about the bike". Get over that.
    Try this: HTFU

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    See I don't think you do, for whatever reason people continue to define bikes by what they are not how they are ridden. AM bikes are bikes ridden on AM trails but that doesn't stop me from taking my XC race bike down those trails and having as much fun as a person a marketed AM bike.

    I ride a rigid bike. Where do I fit in, I have no travel front or rear but regularly ride AM trails and sometimes take the FR lines on these trails. Long descents, jumps, extremely technical lines and drops. My bike has classic geometry, slacker head angle, steeper seat tube.

    The problem when defining something by what someone rides and not what and how they ride is that you unfairly judge people by what they choose to ride and not how they ride. I think that is the beef many people have with the AM crowd. You judge whether I am an AM rider by the fact that my bike has X" of travel and a dropper post and if someone doesn't roll with your marketing influenced determination of AM then you give them grief call them trail riders or even XC riders. As has been pointed out numerous times, whether it is Greg Minear ripping it up on a CX bike or trials guys doing their thing on a road bike, it isn't about how much money you can spend or what you spend it on, it is what you do with your bike that defines you as a rider.

    This concept always reminds me of when I used to ride back in this area that was bound by a reall huge technical rock face. Trucks of all kinds would come and try that face to see whether they could make it or not. A lot of times modified jeeps had no problem, stock SUV's died horrible deaths and pickup trucks were 50-50 (too light in the bed). As we rode on through a big group of Jeeps we stopped at a water hole and a couple of jeeps came through. Then later on the trail a VW baja bug came through. We were astonished that it made it through but figured it just skated through and would make its way out an easier exit, yet there we were at the rock on our way back when up comes the Baja through the rocks and out past the waiting and failed line of purpose built offroaders. Just shows you that skill trumps technology on a lot of fronts.

    AM is a skill set not a technology. Jumping to the next level requires the skills more than the bike. Recreational to XC more skill. XC to AM more skill. AM to FR more skill. FR to DH more skill. From Rec to AM you can pretty much ride the bike you started with, as you learn skills you might upgrade or you might not, depends what you started with. From AM to DH you might upgrade or you might not, depends how fast and big you want to go.

    As Lance Armstrong said "it is not about the bike". Get over that.
    Oh boy, see this is the problem.... AM is not a type of trail or a level of difficulty or a style of riding. AM is definitely not a "skillset".... the internet has spread this misconception.

    A bike is what it is. It is not defined by how it is ridden. The VW baja bug (your words) is a VW baja bug, not a rock crawler, even though that is what you saw it doing.

    If I use a pair of pliers for two different jobs, did it just become a multi-tool?

    Your 2nd and third paragraphs lead me to believe that you have described yourself as an AM rider who rides AM trails, and you take offense to people not agreeing with you. Don't feel inferior for being a mountain biker (and not an AM rider-which by your very description you are not). I would even go so far as to say you may be intermediate to advanced in many of your skills and abilities, able to ride your bike at startling speeds over a variety of obstacles. But that is not AM-that is being a good rider. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the best explanation.
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

  46. #46
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    I'd have to go with a +1 to both Dusty and 53119's definition's.

  47. #47
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    Like an AM snowboard that's designed to ride everything on and off the mountain, an AM bike is designed to be a middle of the rd, dabble in everything platform for a rider that wants their bike to be capable of anything they want to try.

    That said, we are seeing AM move more towards light trail bikes and away from do anything bikes. My guess is FR will make a come back because FR bikes were the original do anything all mountain platform. AM filled that market because most riders don't need an 8 to 10 pound frames built for going big. 6 to 7lbs frames built for aggressive riding taps a much larger market and that's why AM has grown so large and FR bikes have just about died out.

    I would say AM means do anything, but I believe it is becoming to mean ride trails aggressively; FR will again be the do anything bike with AM filling today's trail category.

    FR was declared dead: I predict a resurrection as AM bikes move more towards super light trail bikes.

  48. #48
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    What is the difference between running shoes & hiking shoes? What about walking shoes, sprinting shoes, dancing shoes & dress shoes.

  49. #49
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    Try the search function next time. There is a new, idiotic, post every week asking this same question. It is equivalent to asking "do I like Top Ramen or Cup-O-Noodles better?". They're both dehydrated instant salt noodles. With bikes, buy the one that you like riding better. Next year they'll probably call it something else in the marketing brochures.
    Don't you hate it when a sentence doesn't end the way you think it octopus?

  50. #50
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    What would this bike be considered? It weighs 23 pounds, a 2 x 9 with bashguard drivetrain and a 180mm front rotor:

    "The ONLY person who needs to race.....is the entrant"

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