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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesmokingman View Post
    I'd said nothing of the sort. Let me repeat, the data shows no statistical proof that crank sizes in the named range shows any difference. You however got emotional and have jumped to extremes to make your points. You cite studies but then do not show this proof. You further cite opinion as fact and accuse me of talking in absolutes when I've done no such thing. Again as I wrote before use whatever crank size you want, I don't give a shit.Also let me add that if you feel you need a longer crank for that techy area then so be it. Good for you. But to say it must be because of this, that is opinion. You've shown no proof to support it as fact. Hell, I'm not even sure how one can quantify that point. How big of a rock to climb, what gearing, what terrain, how steep of a grade, etc etc? There are too many variables to even attempt...
    Please explain exactly what "the myth of leverage ratio" means... Sounds like an absolute. Pretty much any study with a comprehensive analysis will state - "the longer the cranks, the lower the optimal cadence at which maximal power was achieved" or ďFor a given gear, to maintain peak power your cadence will increase as crank length decreases.Ē So... no difference? Maybe if you're looking at watts in a lab.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitejumping View Post
    Skills matter much more than a 10mm difference in crank arm length.
    I would totally agree with this, and a skilled/fit rider can prob make nearly anything work.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtndude23 View Post
    Something I always thought was a bit odd, everyone wants a lower BB, but then they run shorter cranks to keep from bashing them. But when you switch to a shorter crank you need to raise the seat to compensate-which then raises your center of gravity right? Which then kinda negates the benefits of a lower BB.
    A low BB doesnít do much when the rider is seated. Pedals have to be not more than a certain distance from the ground so riders will shorten their cranks which means they have to raise their saddle and whenever theyíre seated, thatís their center of gravity. Youíre spot on about that.

    But a lower BB does help when the saddle is dropped and 100% of their weight is on their feet. Thatís when a lower BB creates a lower COG.
    =sParty
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  4. #104
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    Longer cranks have more leverage during a very short distance of the revolution of the crank arms...and if UR standing on the pedals. Legs are moving less during the revolution, with shorter cranks, thus, requiring less oxygen per revolution....I can have a conversation while riding, when everyone else is out of breath....but, we all like riding, so it doesn't matter what U ride...just ride and have fun....

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladljon View Post
    Longer cranks have more leverage during a very short distance of the revolution of the crank arms...and if UR standing on the pedals. Legs are moving less during the revolution, with shorter cranks, thus, requiring less oxygen per revolution....I can have a conversation while riding, when everyone else is out of breath....but, we all like riding, so it doesn't matter what U ride...just ride and have fun....
    So....

    You're taking to yourself, out whilst riding!?

    You did say 'I can have a conversation while riding, when everyone else is out of breath'

    'Born to ride!'
    "Mountain biking: the under-rated and drug-free antidepressant"

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladljon View Post
    Legs are moving less during the revolution, with shorter cranks, thus, requiring less oxygen per revolution.
    Incorrect. Your fitness is your own athleticism, you can't blame it on the bike.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtndude23 View Post
    Something I always thought was a bit odd, everyone wants a lower BB, but then they run shorter cranks to keep from bashing them. But when you switch to a shorter crank you need to raise the seat to compensate-which then raises your center of gravity right? Which then kinda negates the benefits of a lower BB.
    C of G mainly matters for descending at speed where you will be standing with pedals level (most of the time) so your argument doesn't make sense as crank length doesn't come into play but BB height surely does. If you're not a gravity rider then I would argue that C of G doesn't even matter but to each their own.

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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by targnik View Post
    So....

    You're taking to yourself, out whilst riding!?

    You did say 'I can have a conversation while riding, when everyone else is out of breath'

    'Born to ride!'
    Squirrel whisperer, he is.

  9. #109
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    All I hear is RIGHT!, Yes, or No....barely...like they are barfing the word out...Its hard to breathe, and or talk, when the knees are in UR lungs...

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladljon View Post
    I can have a conversation while riding, when everyone else is out of breath....
    Not because your cranks are 5mm shorter.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  11. #111
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    I ride 170's and my buddies are all on 175s. Im the one huffing and puffing.

  12. #112
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    How bout35mm shorter...went from 170's to 135mm
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Not because your cranks are 5mm shorter.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails crank lengths 175 vs 170-dscn3367.jpg  


  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    I ride 170's and my buddies are all on 175s. Im the one huffing and puffing.
    Clearly it's the cranks. You'd better buy something to make you more capable.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    Please explain exactly what "the myth of leverage ratio" means... Sounds like an absolute. Pretty much any study with a comprehensive analysis will state - "the longer the cranks, the lower the optimal cadence at which maximal power was achieved" or ďFor a given gear, to maintain peak power your cadence will increase as crank length decreases.Ē So... no difference? Maybe if you're looking at watts in a lab.
    I learned to ride and had only ridden high quality 175 cranks in the 4 years I had been riding. I'm 5'11" with long arms and legs for my height (I lost an inch of height in my spine in an MX accident) My XX1 cranks snapped about 4 months ago and after some reading I decided to try 170mm cranks.

    It felt darn funny for about an hour but after that I was clearing way more stuff. What it feels like to me, is that my feet are covering the same overall distance but since I have a smaller diameter on the shorter cranks, the cadence is actually faster. And this faster cadence prevents me from getting stalled out in really tricky sections. It's not any more tiring at all. Even though I'm a flexible guy (do yoga and what not) I feel like my legs are more in their natural position and angles.

    On the big cranks it feels like this big windmill sensation that can be really hard to get moving when they are stalled out. In comparison the smaller cranks feels like a littler gerbil wheel, much easier to get started again.

    The reduced pedal strikes is real too, but that turned out to be less important for me personally, but still a very nice side benefit.

    I've never been faster than now and since I changed to 170 cranks I really made a notable improvement in my ability to clear obstacles. I do not attribute all of that to my cranks but it sure helped me personally.

    Some say they can't even tell a crank arm length change which is just odd to me but then I remember that I ride with guys that don't check their air pressure for months, ride with a big rock in their shoe, or whatever. Some people just don't notice these things.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladljon View Post
    How bout35mm shorter...went from 170's to 135mm

    Why not go down to 100mm, might get your heart rate down to 50 bpm while your buddies are maxed out

    Still don't think it's the cranks but like you said, just ride and have fun and it really doesn't matter.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  16. #116
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    I tried 90mm-170mm in 10mm increments and for twenty mile rides for each setting,. 130-135mm felt the best for me....
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Why not go down to 100mm, might get your heart rate down to 50 bpm while your buddies are maxed out

    Still don't think it's the cranks but like you said, just ride and have fun and it really doesn't matter.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Why not go down to 100mm, might get your heart rate down to 50 bpm while your buddies are maxed out.
    or -175s and had your circulatory system run backwards.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  18. #118
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    crank lengths 175 vs 170

    Figured this would be an appropriate thread to ask this question. I recently swapped to 165 from 170 in part because I was curious what it felt like and partly to reduce pedal strikes. Turns out the crank arm lengths themselves are just as long as the 170ís I have and longer in some cases... So wondering if anyone can recommend a decent lightweight 73bsa crankset that is actually shorter? So far White Industries has confirmed their M30 165 is 179mm long BB centre to end of arm thatís about 6mm shorter than the 165 GX cranks I got.any others?
    Michael

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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by geraldooka View Post
    Figured this would be an appropriate thread to ask this question. I recently swapped to 165 from 170 in part because I was curious what it felt like and partly to reduce pedal strikes. Turns out the crank arm lengths themselves are just as long as the 170ís I have and longer in some cases... So wondering if anyone can recommend a decent lightweight 73bsa crankset that is actually shorter? So far White Industries has confirmed their M30 165 is 179mm long BB centre to end of arm thatís about 6mm shorter than the 165 GX cranks I got.any others?
    Ya that's common where they'll use the same arm and just drill the pedal hole somewhere else. It's not as good as multiple blanks, but it's a inconsequential difference in practice. Even less than moving to 5mm shorter arms. Don't worry about it.

    I think in general you'll find multiple arm lengths in $$$ forged armsets, or in machined billet armsets ($$$). It's a production cost thing.

    I haven't made a study of this, obviously. It takes a weird obstacle to hit the arm before the pedal.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    Ya that's common where they'll use the same arm and just drill the pedal hole somewhere else. It's not as good as multiple blanks, but it's a inconsequential difference in practice. Even less than moving to 5mm shorter arms. Don't worry about it.

    I think in general you'll find multiple arm lengths in $$$ forged armsets, or in machined billet armsets ($$$). It's a production cost thing.

    I haven't made a study of this, obviously. It takes a weird obstacle to hit the arm before the pedal.
    Fair enough. Despite this, I do manage to smack the arms not infrequently. I concede our local trails offer up brutally technical climbing trails. Just about anywhere else is not really an issue. Unfortunately Iím not anywhere nearly as often.
    Michael

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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    Clearly it's the cranks. You'd better buy something to make you more capable.
    The 30 pounds I gained isn't helping either!

    I wish 165's were more common.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Bingo. Agree 100%.

    Now try to find a frame that will allow you to do that if you want to experiment with longer cranks. More people are swapping to shorter cranks every day due to the ever lowering BB. What about those who want to experiment with crank length in the other direction?

    I'll reiterate I'm not favoring any single crank length even generally -- shorter vs longer. That's absolutely each rider's choice. I'm saying the bike industry has limited our ability to choose and many riders are making their choice of crank length based on the convenient choice -- shorter cranks -- rather than considering the FAR less convenient option -- a frame with a higher BB in order to avoid pedal strikes. Frames with higher BBs allow some riders to fit cranks that are more appropriate for their inseam measurement yet still avoid pedal strikes.

    It ain't easy to do, finding such frames. Especially considering that in addition to my preferred BB height, I still want to choose all other frame attributes -- travel, HA, chainstay length, STA, blah, blah. Maybe I need to go custom. Tragic, IMO.

    Look back 5 years and every decade before that, nobody was rushing toward shorter cranks. Low BBs instigated this phenomenon, it wasn't because the market lacked a supply of short cranks 5 or more years ago.

    Did riders demand lower BBs or did the bike industry decide that's what we're all going to buy in 2018?

    Food for thought. Again, not calling anybody wrong.

    I'm going riding now.
    =sParty
    Don't know if riders pushed for lower BB's or bike designers started the idea, but I am sure enjoying my low BB bike. Handles great and you quickly figure out how to reduce the number of pedal strikes. I am running 175's and they're not bad, but I am going to try 170s.

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