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  1. #1
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    Carbon Rims, Still not bomb-proof

    UCI MTB World Cup Mount Saint Anne Canada part 3 - YouTube

    Scroll to 3:50 and watch what happens.

    Okay, so it was during a race and with a pro pounding the wheels. But still, if I'm gonna pay $2500 they better take it.
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  2. #2
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    That really is quite lame

  3. #3
    RideDirt
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    So did the rim actually crack/break somewhere or was it just the spokes that broke off ? Technically that could happen to any rim. Carbon wheels are for people with deep pockets

    There is hundreds of trashed non carbon rims.

    Im pretty sure ENVE has some kind of warranty.

  4. #4
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    I beat the ever loving piss out of my Enve all mountain wheels and I would ride nothing else at this point. The rocky trails around the Phoenix area are not very nice to rims to say the least. I think the people that can't afford them try too hard to justify why they don't need them. Just my 2 cents tho I guess.

  5. #5
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    That is just the spokes, they can have new spokes put in and be trued.

  6. #6
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    Unless the spokes pulled through......it does just look like it was the spokes.

  7. #7
    Formerly of Kent
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    Definitely just the spokes. Didn't see anything that looked like the rim itself was compromised.

    But, nice try!
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  8. #8
    Trail Ninja
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    Look at that defense.

    Also, does anyone really expect a lightweight (464g) rim to be "bombproof" because it's expensive? It only needs to outperform the competition's heavier rims tasked at doing the same duty to be worth it.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    Scroll to 3:50 and watch what happens.

    Okay, so it was during a race and with a pro pounding the wheels. But still, if I'm gonna pay $2500 they better take it.
    The Syndicate have been messing with spoke tensions, running them much lower than advised to see if they can use the deflection get extra grip over wheels at normal tension. Looks like they pushed it a little too far with that one.

    Regardless, if man makes it, man can break it, carbon rims and steel spokes included.

  10. #10
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  11. #11
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    Rat talks about it at 3:15



    Rim was fine.

  12. #12
    RideDirt
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    Yea that sucks .

  13. #13
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    This spoke pulling through issue seems to be a weak point of these rims. The same thing happened to a few sets of the cheapie Chinese carbon rims too. Maybe if they started making spokes with larger nipple flanges specifically for these rims. Although these rims are strong, the material is softer than alum, so spokes would be prone to pulling out. IDK if an alum rim would have just taco'd under the same stresses shown in the video. I havent seen spoke pull out of alum rims though.

    I remember when GT came out with the first carbon frames. They had issues with the junctions at the headtube, rear triangle, and dropouts where they were alum to carbon. This seems also be the weak link in the wheel, steel spoke to carbon rim.

    In the video, you can see that he was on the rocks, didn't jump, but just leaned the bike way over to make a turn, when the spokes pulled out. Of course, there were probably other stresses that lead up to that point of failure as well.

    Yes, I would still love to have a set of these wheels, but at that price, I still don't see it justified. That's like 3-4 sets of other top end wheelsets, like Flows on Kings/Hopes/Hadley/I9s. Maybe when they've got these issues ironed out it may be worth more to me. It just seems like that should not happen when spending so much bank. They come with a 5 yr warranty, but many us of probably replace wheels and bikes before then anyhow.
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  14. #14
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    Dude, I don't know if you're blind or deaf, but you can SEE that the spokes are broken, not the rim, in the video posted. They didn't pull out through the rim. They broke.

    And the rim is NOT tacoed. It's perfectly straight. The spokes are simply missing, and it's leaning to one side, thus it wobbles around.

    That, and carbon has higher tensile strength than aluminum. Which is why you can build carbon rims to much higher tensions. So, the "carbon is softer than aluminum" argument is simply wrong, as well.

    We get it, you don't trust carbon. But at least attempt to look at the facts objectively. Jesus.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
    Yea that sucks .
    Yes Yes and those photos are after the guy knowing he cracked a prototype rim continued to ride it and it blew up on him. Would anyone care if he had taken an cracked Alum rim and riden it till it blew up. No not at all they would have just said he was a moron for riding something that he knew was broken.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Dude, I don't know if you're blind or deaf, but you can SEE that the spokes are broken, not the rim, in the video posted. They didn't pull out through the rim. They broke.

    And the rim is NOT tacoed. It's perfectly straight. The spokes are simply missing, and it's leaning to one side, thus it wobbles around.

    That, and carbon has higher tensile strength than aluminum. Which is why you can build carbon rims to much higher tensions. So, the "carbon is softer than aluminum" argument is simply wrong, as well.

    We get it, you don't trust carbon. But at least attempt to look at the facts objectively. Jesus.
    Had to rep this. Well said.

    OP - Then don't spend the $2500. Plenty of pics of amateurs wrecking aluminum wheels and bikes on the interwebs.

  17. #17
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    Maybe you're not understanding what I said.

    But thanks for your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Dude, I don't know if you're blind or deaf, but you can SEE that the spokes are broken, not the rim, in the video posted. They didn't pull out through the rim. They broke.

    And the rim is NOT tacoed. It's perfectly straight. The spokes are simply missing, and it's leaning to one side, thus it wobbles around.

    That, and carbon has higher tensile strength than aluminum. Which is why you can build carbon rims to much higher tensions. So, the "carbon is softer than aluminum" argument is simply wrong, as well.

    We get it, you don't trust carbon. But at least attempt to look at the facts objectively. Jesus.
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  18. #18
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    I can read and speak the English language fairly well.

    You specifically state that the material is softer than aluminum. You also imply that the spokes pulled out of the rim. They did not.

    Spokes "pulling out" of the rim is when they literally fracture the carbon/aluminum around the spoke nipple, causing a bulge and potentially completely pulling the nipple and spoke free of the rim. This is clearly NOT what happened here.

    The rims are clearly intact. You can see the broken spokes, and completely intact spoke holes that correspond with them, in the Syndicate video posted.

    So, you might want to think about your statements. Just a helpful hint.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    I can read and speak the English language fairly well.

    You specifically state that the material is softer than aluminum. You also imply that the spokes pulled out of the rim. They did not.

    Spokes "pulling out" of the rim is when they literally fracture the carbon/aluminum around the spoke nipple, causing a bulge and potentially completely pulling the nipple and spoke free of the rim. This is clearly NOT what happened here.

    The rims are clearly intact. You can see the broken spokes, and completely intact spoke holes that correspond with them, in the Syndicate video posted.

    So, you might want to think about your statements. Just a helpful hint.
    We'd have to look up close and in person to verify the condition of those spoke holes to know for sure what happened.

    But again thanks for your opinion. We each have one. Why don't we leave it at that.
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  20. #20
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    You can get a pretty damn good close up if you actually watch the video. You can make out the spoke holes quite easily.

    What is your opinion based off of, then? What evidence do you have the the RIM failed? Pictures? Because I have a screenshot of the wheel in question with a bunch of broken spokes, on both sides of the wheel, and what appears to be a completely intact rim.
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  21. #21
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    Hmmm...just watched the video and it looks like the threaded ends of the spokes are visible. If that's the case then they pulled through. If the spokes broke then you would see pieces hanging out the holes. It was probably the internal nipples that gave away and not the rim itself. Replace the nipple and put new spokes in, probably be as good as new.

    In defense of the rim, he did say that he heard spokes pinging and he kept riding through it and that caused further damage.

    I would ride those rims without any fear of them failing.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    We'd have to look up close and in person to verify the condition of those spoke holes to know for sure what happened.

    But again thanks for your opinion. We each have one. Why don't we leave it at that.
    josh said the rim was fine upon closer inspection. that is for sure.

  23. #23
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    Still don't trust carbon rims and thats my opinion. Not that I didn't just have the spokes pull through and rupture on my 5 year old aluminum rim, but that was after two fairly extensive re-laces due to bending the heck out of the rim and continuing to ride hard on it. I expected it.

    Carbon for wheels just hasn't passed my nervous nature. Frames are getting way better and I would definitely use it for my trail bike.

    For what its worth, the video isnt super clear but it appears to be either broken or ruptured spokes. I couldnt really see cataclysmic rim failure; which is good because thats what worries me the most about carbon.

  24. #24
    I did it all for the kudo
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    Re: Carbon Rims, Still not bomb-proof

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Dude, I don't know if you're blind or deaf, but you can SEE that the spokes are broken, not the rim, in the video posted. They didn't pull out through the rim. They broke.

    And the rim is NOT tacoed. It's perfectly straight. The spokes are simply missing, and it's leaning to one side, thus it wobbles around.

    That, and carbon has higher tensile strength than aluminum. Which is why you can build carbon rims to much higher tensions. So, the "carbon is softer than aluminum" argument is simply wrong, as well.

    We get it, you don't trust carbon. But at least attempt to look at the facts objectively. Jesus.
    Le Duke, your comments make you sound more like a Le Dick.

  25. #25
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    Hello fellas. It was not my intention for anyone to be get upset. If anyone did get bothered, I apologize.

    Again, I say the only way to verify what happened would be to see the rim in person, despite what Ratboy said or the video shows. Why don't we just keep it at that and keep the peace here. We're all here because we love riding mountain bikes. We're all a brotherhood of riders who love our sport.

    So, lets ride...
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  26. #26
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    I have watched a lot of vids of Bryceland riding and sometimes breaking stuff over the past few years. I don't think he would mince words or speak technically incorrect. If he says he broke the spokes, rather than the spokes pulled out of the rim, and the video appears to corroborate that... case closed, IMHO.

    What's at issue is that pulling the spokes through the rim is indeed a serious problem, but it's caused by excessive tension. Another person commented that the Santa Cruz Syndicate team had been experimenting with *low* spoke tension. That does tend to end up with broken spokes.

    So, I see why Le Duke is getting pissed. This is how stupid rumors and hearsay get started that a given product is weak or low quality, and the reality is the opposite.

  27. #27
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    ^^^This.

    I'm getting frustrated because there are no visual indicators of the rim failing. We can see broken spokes in the video.

    But, no signs of failed carbon. The wheel is not bent, or broken, in either the lateral or radial direction.

    So, yes, when a parrot keeps on screaming "It failed! It failed!" with no evidence to back up what he's saying, it annoys me.
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  28. #28
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    ^+3. why wouldnt you take josh's words at face value? hes not known to be a shill.

  29. #29
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    OK,
    Does anyone here in this forum slugfest work for Easton or Enve?
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  30. #30
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    Carbon Rims, Still not bomb-proof

    Lol at the "I haven't seen spoke pulled trough an aluminum rim" comment

    The other day we had a poor guy come in at the shop with his rear wheel busted from a truck that ripped his bike when it was locked on the streets. The spokes and nipples were great, the rim was more of a perforated disaster, with about 5 spokes and nipples that pulled out trough the aluminum rim. We got him a nice new rear wheel and threw the old one at the scrapyard.

    Carbon is so strong when greatly integrated into design that a well engineered product should outlast your own human body under normal intended use. Just don't try to bond it to other materials or surfaces and expect a miracle.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    OK,
    Does anyone here in this forum slugfest work for Easton or Enve?
    No, I do not work in the industry in any way.

    I doubt I would ever be able to justify purchasing a set of Enve wheels. (I can afford, but don't see the value or need.) I have considered Easton wheels but don't own any.

    I was just connecting the dots. If something looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's.... probably not a duck, and it probably failed in some way that contradicts the evidence at hand.

  32. #32
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    [QUOTE=David C;10608209]Lol at the "I haven't seen spoke pulled trough an aluminum rim" comment

    /QUOTE]

    same here. i have first hand seen several nipples pull through a dt 490 (?) like a hot knife through butter.

  33. #33
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    I watched the race. Saw he broke spokes. Whenvi saw the rim was enve i knew right away some lamo would come online and blame broken spokes on the fact the rim was carbon. The internet never lets me down.


    Other observations.

    People saying that the spoke broke is an opinion. Rather than a fact.

    Anti carbon threads used to get lots of haters to chime in. Its good to see the church of aluminum is losing members

  34. #34
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    Working at a bike shop, I have seen carbon fail many times, but truth be told it was all on weight weenie roadie ****. It mostly comes down to how it's built, rather than what it's built with. For example, I think an ENVE rim would hold up to way more abuse than the malleable hoops that DT Swiss produces.

  35. #35
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    And this is why you pay big bucks if you want a light weight , strong , reliable , rim .. Or you can pay cheap bucks , get some cheap ebay china carbon wheels , break them , and then say oh man carbon sucks .

    Orrrrrrr you can just keep riding with the aluminum rims and be happy ..

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