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  1. #1
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    Burro Down/Whole Enchilada Enduro race in Moab

    Anyone heard of this? I stumbled across this site, and I'm very intrigued. Any thoughts/expectations on how this would be run? Mass start with a gravel climb? Staggered TT style start? Who's in?

    I can't wait to hear more about this.

    EnchiladaEnduro.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by rfxc View Post
    Anyone heard of this? I stumbled across this site, and I'm very intrigued. Any thoughts/expectations on how this would be run? Mass start with a gravel climb? Staggered TT style start? Who's in?

    I can't wait to hear more about this.

    EnchiladaEnduro.com
    If the climb up to the top of Haystack is included, I would think a mass start would separate the pack enough to keep the initial singletrack from getting too crowded. That climb is as brutal as any I can think of. The rider who can crest that then clean everything - or most of everything - that follows, will truly be a total all around animal.

    Here's a taste of what it could look like going down:
    Moab, Utah Enduro marathon "The Whole Enchiladas" - Video
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    Thanks for the info.
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    I'm only familiar with the unofficial race that starts at the saddle (top of Burro) and runs to teh Colorado river. I recall a guy from Frisco or maybe Silverthorne, CO has the record...like 1 hour 42 minutes or something crazy silly fast.

    If they formalize it, it would be nuts for sure.

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    This was in the works for this year but the organizer didn't get the permiting done in time. I think the FS had signed off on it but was still awaiting BLM approval.

    If I'm not mistaken it was to be a time trial starting at Burro Pass.

    If they could get this approved, it would be the ultimate endurance DH/Super D.
    Last edited by KRob; 12-28-2011 at 12:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    If they could get this approved, it would be the ultimate endurance DH/Super D.
    Given the hellish climb and the gnarly descent, what will be the bike of choice: sub 30lb AM with 5 or 6" travel? A full on free-ride bike would require push up the hill by most humans at 10,000 feet.. I can think of two guys who could pedal a big bike up that hill, then clean the whole downhill, intials EC and BL. I'm sure there are plenty of others, like a lot of Moab locals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Given the hellish climb and the gnarly descent, what will be the bike of choice: sub 30lb AM with 5 or 6" travel? A full on free-ride bike would require push up the hill by most humans at 10,000 feet.. I can think of two guys who could pedal a big bike up that hill, then clean the whole downhill, intials EC and BL. I'm sure there are plenty of others, like a lot of Moab locals.
    Like I said, I think they were planning on doing a time trial starting at the top of Burro Pass.... so no 1500' climb at 11,000ft. Still plenty of pedaling and a few short climbs below that though. The climb up out of Warner lake camp ground is significant at race pace for sure.

    So yeah, 5-6" fairly light bike with tough wheels, biggish tires set up tubeless should be the hot set up. (4-5" 29er should work really well too). Full DH bikes will suffer in the climbs and the flattish sections on the Porc Rim jeep road.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    So yeah, 5-6" fairly light bike with tough wheels, biggish tires set up tubeless should be the hot set up. (4-5" 29er should work really well too). Full DH bikes will suffer in the climbs and the flattish sections on the Porc Rim jeep road.
    A 29'er would be tough on the first few swtichbacks, but the level of skil a rider would have to clean the rest of the ride would make nose wheelies on the switchbacks look like a piece of cake. How about a Jamis 650b2, with Pacenti Neomoto 2.3? That's 5 travel, good rolling wheel size, and sub 30lbs (with a dropper post),
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    If the climb is included then I couldn't see wanting a bike more than about 30 lbs....a nicely built up 6" bike right around that weight wouldn't be terrible to pedal up (most of it) & be able to bomb down the other side. Would be a pretty wild race for sure, lots of variety on that trail(s).

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    It would be nice if the race became official and the riders started riding on the actual Burro trail. But it would add quite a bit to the times and make it less cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by axolotl View Post
    It would be nice if the race became official and the riders started riding on the actual Burro trail. But it would add quite a bit to the times and make it less cool.
    I've only been there once.i didn't know there was more than one. This is the one i remember and i recall walking the first 3 or 4 switchbacks
    Burro Pass
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Given the hellish climb and the gnarly descent, what will be the bike of choice: sub 30lb AM with 5 or 6" travel? A full on free-ride bike would require push up the hill by most humans at 10,000 feet.. I can think of two guys who could pedal a big bike up that hill, then clean the whole downhill, intials EC and BL. I'm sure there are plenty of others, like a lot of Moab locals.
    An enduro race covering The Whole Enchilada?I'd up for that With the initial climb included.
    But as impressive a ride (and a veritable hoot) that is in its entirety...Hellish climb?Gnarly descent?Ok, a short section of the first climb in on gravel and it really is difficult to ride, but other than that it's just another steep climb.And it's not that long.Save for that gravelly bit even I (and I'm no EC or BL, not by a long stretch) was able to climb the thing.On a 35 lb Intense 6.6 I only rode twice before that.And I don't remember anything that gnarly on the way down either (Upper Bodybag excluded, of course ).I remember a couple of tricky bits on the last part when you're riding along Colorado river but that would be about it.And I repeat, I don't consider myself a standout rider.
    That said, the thing would definitely be very physically demanding at race pace, no doubt about it.But except for the top riders you go ride an enduro like that mostly for fun, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    I've only been there once.i didn't know there was more than one. This is the one i remember and i recall walking the first 3 or 4 switchbacks
    Burro Pass
    They have been running a mass start that freefalls down burro without really using the trail. Think about how much it would slow you down to do all those switchbacks in the beginning

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    Quote Originally Posted by problematiks View Post
    An enduro race covering The Whole Enchilada?I'd up for that With the initial climb included.
    But as impressive a ride (and a veritable hoot) that is in its entirety...Hellish climb?Gnarly descent?Ok, a short section of the first climb in on gravel and it really is difficult to ride, but other than that it's just another steep climb.And it's not that long.Save for that gravelly bit even I (and I'm no EC or BL, not by a long stretch) was able to climb the thing.On a 35 lb Intense 6.6 I only rode twice before that.And I don't remember anything that gnarly on the way down either (Upper Bodybag excluded, of course ).I remember a couple of tricky bits on the last part when you're riding along Colorado river but that would be about it.And I repeat, I don't consider myself a standout rider.
    That said, the thing would definitely be very physically demanding at race pace, no doubt about it.But except for the top riders you go ride an enduro like that mostly for fun, right?

    Marko
    The initially climb is hellish mainly because of the altitude @10-11k feet. On the descent you've got the lower rim parts you mention as "tricky" then there's "the notch " on upper rim equally "tricky" if not insane:

    Riding the "Notch" on the Porcupine Rim MTB trail in Moab - YouTube

    To clean the climb requires what I would consider above average x-c / roadie fitness; to clean the whole desceent requires above average FR / DH skills, with some trials moves thrown in for good measure. So the rider who can clean both is truly an all round animal, which is why I mention EC and BL. So, Consider yourself "stand out"
    Last edited by dwt; 12-29-2011 at 06:58 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    The initially climb is hellish mainly because of the altitude @10-11k feet. On the descent you've got the lower rim parts you mention as "tricky" then there's "the notch " on upper rim equally "tricky" if not insane:

    Riding the "Notch" on the Porcupine Rim MTB trail in Moab - YouTube
    I'm thinking the official race would mirror the other. Start at the pass-finish at the river. Folks will likely ride the snotch not the notch in order to avoid the climb and reduce time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by axolotl View Post
    I'm thinking the official race would mirror the other. Start at the pass-finish at the river. Folks will likely ride the snotch not the notch in order to avoid the climb and reduce time.
    As a non-local, that is confusing to me - not sure what is what.

    The true test of strength would require doing the "real" trails, up and down, eh?
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    The notch (or Upper Bodybag, as I think people also call it) is indeed a handful to say the least

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    Quote Originally Posted by axolotl View Post
    They have been running a mass start that freefalls down burro without really using the trail. Think about how much it would slow you down to do all those switchbacks in the beginning
    Holy cow! Is there a trail that goes straight down off the summit or are they just buswhacking it? That sounds steep.

    I've always wondered what route is taken for those "best times" I've seen posted. For instance, do they take the pipeline canal rather than staying on the official trail? Do they take the more direct original Hazard County route rather than the official windy one? Do they stay on Kokopelli to the road then sprint over to the top of LPS rather than doing UPS?

    For an official, permitted race they would have to stay on the approved trail I would assume.

    And I agree with problematiks, for the most part, there's nothing too "gnarly" on the descent that would make a DH or FR bike an advantage. There's miles of stuff where a light 5-6" bike would rule though.

    I disagree with Marko (problematiks) on the climb up to Burro Pass if included in the race though. That would be an absolute killer at race pace and would separate the XC endurance freaks from the field and would definitely take its toll for the rest of the ride.

    And I also disagree with Marko on his abilities. He's a climbing animal.
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    The snotch is a go around for the notch. The main reason the racers would use it is because there is no climb afterwards. Unfortunately there is some people who think trails should be rideable by the masses. So instead of learning to ride better, the thinking is to make the trails easier. The snotch is just such a section. It is considered the trail, so it is real in a sense. The part of the trail that gets me is near the river getting up out of the last drainage. That 4ft step up gets me every time!
    The climb to the pass is not needed IMO, because the trail down is immensely challenging without it. But it would serve as a good way to thin out the pack in a mass start and allow requiring riders to stay on the trail for upper Burro.
    The people who ride the underground version are crazy good and amazingly strong and fit. Any way you ride it, burro down is a true test of strength.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Holy cow! Is there a trail that goes straight down off the summit or are they just buswhacking it? That sounds steep.

    I've always wondered what route is taken for those "best times" I've seen posted. For instance, do they take the pipeline canal rather than staying on the official trail? Do they take the more direct original Hazard County route rather than the official windy one? Do they stay on Kokopelli to the road then sprint over to the top of LPS rather than doing UPS?
    Just pick a line. Don't know about pipeline, I bet if its faster, guys are runnin it though. Seems like going around ups-lps would be cheating though. Who knows? with times getting close to 1.5 hours?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by axolotl View Post
    The snotch is a go around for the notch. The main reason the racers would use it is because there is no climb afterwards. Unfortunately there is some people who think trails should be rideable by the masses. So instead of learning to ride better, the thinking is to make the trails easier. The snotch is just such a section. It is considered the trail, so it is real in a sense. The part of the trail that gets me is near the river getting up out of the last drainage. That 4ft step up gets me every time!
    The climb to the pass is not needed IMO, because the trail down is immensely challenging without it. But it would serve as a good way to thin out the pack in a mass start and allow requiring riders to stay on the trail for upper Burro.
    The people who ride the underground version are crazy good and amazingly strong and fit. Any way you ride it, burro down is a true test of strength.
    Test of strength and skill.

    As far as rideable vs. improving, there is the learning curve that at places like Moab could kill you or maim you in the process, no? Not everyone was created to have the ability to clean the really challenging stuff.


    I could practice from now to the end of my life and I will never be able to clean the notch and definitely the part you mention near the river. The notch: brass balls and cat-like balance. The lower rim section near the river: trials + FR skills over my head to get down, plus animal strength to get out of the last drainage. To clean the whole enchilada, you need to have the whole Enchilada package of skill + strength. Those who can are a fortunate minority, I think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I disagree with Marko (problematiks) on the climb up to Burro Pass if included in the race though. That would be an absolute killer at race pace and would separate the XC endurance freaks from the field and would definitely take its toll for the rest of the ride.

    And I also disagree with Marko on his abilities. He's a climbing animal.
    You have a point there.It could give the really fit quite a bit of a headstart for the rest of the ride.

    As for me being a climbing animal...a burro, perhaps

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    Quote Originally Posted by problematiks View Post
    The notch (or Upper Bodybag, as I think people also call it) is indeed a handful to say the least

    Marko

    It was a handful until they sanitized it and rerouted the steep section after the crux. It's much easier than it used to be, and cutting out the steep flowy turns after the notch is a real bummer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by axolotl View Post
    The snotch is a go around for the notch. The main reason the racers would use it is because there is no climb afterwards. Unfortunately there is some people who think trails should be rideable by the masses. So instead of learning to ride better, the thinking is to make the trails easier. The snotch is just such a section. It is considered the trail, so it is real in a sense. The part of the trail that gets me is near the river getting up out of the last drainage. That 4ft step up gets me every time!
    The climb to the pass is not needed IMO, because the trail down is immensely challenging without it. But it would serve as a good way to thin out the pack in a mass start and allow requiring riders to stay on the trail for upper Burro.
    The people who ride the underground version are crazy good and amazingly strong and fit. Any way you ride it, burro down is a true test of strength.
    The real bummer here is they dumbed down the notch after creating an alternative route? This is what baffles me. If you build an easier option, why make the more difficult option easier too? This is a sore spot for me because I LOVE natural tech, and there are few legal trails with challenging tech like the notch. It's still a super fun section, but it's just not as fun as it used to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimat99 View Post
    It was a handful until they sanitized it and rerouted the steep section after the crux. It's much easier than it used to be, and cutting out the steep flowy turns after the notch is a real bummer.
    they really dummed down the turns after the crux? that hard to believe. while few could manage the the section before the steep, smooth turns, anybody could handle the aftermath.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    they really dummed down the turns after the crux? that hard to believe. while few could manage the the section before the steep, smooth turns, anybody could handle the aftermath.
    Last time I rode the notch the steep s turns after the crux was blocked off and rerouted to keep you high instead of dropping down to the bottom then climbing back up. They didn't dumb down the steep turns following the crux, they did away with them.

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    Cool! Road the Porcupine Rim in 2011, very awesome.

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    Kyle (Acme Shuttle) has the record - 1 hr 37 minutes. That was starting from the top of Burro Pass, riding the canal trail and the Snotch. The canal trail is illegal now so after Burro you have to cross over the canal trail, up over a small hill and back down to Warner Lake.

    I think it would have to be a time trial if it were official (given the number of riders) unless they started at Geyser Pass...

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    Quote Originally Posted by problematiks View Post
    The notch (or Upper Bodybag, as I think people also call it) is indeed a handful to say the least

    Marko

    Yup, but just one small section. If you are a puss and walked it I don't think you'd lose just because of this one section.

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    Kyle said he rode UP the drop in to Horsethief Bench, cleaning it. That blows my facking mind.

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    I want to visit this place so bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by half_man_half_scab View Post
    Kyle said he rode UP the drop in to Horsethief Bench, cleaning it. That blows my facking mind.
    Which move is that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by axolotl View Post
    Which move is that?
    Horsethief Bench Video - Pinkbike.com

    From the Mary's Loop area

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    yall are nuts, im from so cal i just started mountin biking with some bmx race experience and
    a freind took me to try whole enchilada. number one, i thought the first climb was gonna put me into cardiac arrest (no but really i couldnt breathe for a minute and it scared me, once i could breathe i could actually hear my heart beating while hiking my bike the rest of the way up, then had to take a 20 minute or more break at the top, so the climb would definatly thin out even really good downhill skilled riders.
    then burros pass was muddy with melting snow and the awesomesist thing i have ever done, i actually cleaned it muddy and watched my friend go over the bars twice in front of me. i told him to lower that seatpost, then i broke a rib washing out in a stupid turn in hazard county and had stuggle to get to where i could bail down sand flats before UPS, i wanted to finish but the ribs just couldnt take anymore. Now after seeing porcupine on youtube im glad i broke a rib because i think i would have nutted up trying to do the rim
    Last edited by akiracornell; 01-17-2012 at 01:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by akiracornell View Post
    yall are nuts, im from so cal i just started mountin biking with some bmx race experience and
    a freind took me to try whole enchilada. number one, i thought the first climb was gonna put me into cardiac arrest (no but really i couldnt breathe for a minute and it scared me, once i could breathe i could actually hear my heart beating while hiking my bike the rest of the way up, then had to take a 20 minute or more break at the top, so the climb would definatly thin out even really good downhill skilled riders.
    then burros pass was muddy with melting snow and the awesomesist thing i have ever done, i actually cleaned it muddy and watched my friend go over the bars twice in front of me. i told him to lower that seatpost, then i broke a rib washing out in a stupid turn in hazard county and had stuggle to get to where i could bail down sand flats before UPS, i wanted to finish but the ribs just couldnt take anymore. Now after seeing porcupine on youtube im glad i broke a rib because i think i would have nutted up trying to do the rim
    There is no way you're from So Cal "yall" ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by akiracornell View Post
    yall are nuts, im from so cal i just started mountin biking with some bmx race experience
    Assuming your post is not a lame troll:

    The folks who will race the Whole Enchilada have tons of mountain biking experience (and many BMX experience as well), and can be considered "highly skilled" and "ballsy".

    Sort of like folks who race automobiles, motorcycles, dirt bikes, etc. It takes years to learn the skills, and the great ones are natural athletes with brass nuts to boot.

    So, they're not nuts, to be put down. They're just good, to be admired.
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    i agree, they're good. Beyond good in my eyes, considering it takes the average guy a full work day to get down the thing. The idea of pushing yourself and maintaining race pace;where i could only imagine fatigue setting in by the time you do porcupine where i would not want to be fatigued sketches me out. (although i never got to see the rim with my own eyes didnt get that far due to injury). I have good bike skills in a short time in my eyes, but im finding some mountain bikers are just straight out lance armstrong cardio freaks. It is amazing super human to me. like the guy said above an Animal would win the thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by axolotl View Post
    I'm thinking the official race would mirror the other. Start at the pass-finish at the river. Folks will likely ride the snotch not the notch in order to avoid the climb and reduce time.
    Is the snotch faster? They cut out the climb after the notch so maybe it would be faster now?

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    ah the Notch. Much harder than it looks. Took me a few tries porcupine rim moab "notch" - YouTube
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    I have podiumed for 4 years now at the Downieville classic in both the DH and the All Mountain as well as quite a few DH and Super D podiums.. Downieville is another one of those races that is crazy... not as bad as this looks but still gnarly.. 3k feet of climbing to start and then miles of single track that is brutal at race speed.. I have ridden with Craig and a few of the other pros along with the locals and what can be mildly challenging when just riding can get dangerous at speed..

    Riding with one of the D-ville pros, he says "follow my line exactly and make sure you hit the rock I hit and dont touch the brakes".. Take off on lower butcher ranch and before I know it he is taking off a 6 inch wide rock and we are 8 feet off the ground and the trail is 10 feet up hill from us.. We land fine and I continue to ride all these wild and crazy local/pro lines..

    at the end of the day I wonder how they can ride like that for 15 miles at mach7 like they do.. and I realize that those pros ride on a whole different level.. When they are getting paid to ride then they can take crazy risks to save 10 seconds.. 20 little spots like that that save 5-10 seconds when all add up make the difference between the 1st and 5th place guys..

    Story is that there are tons of guys that are always going to be faster/crazier/dumber.. there can only be one fastest guy on the hill..

    EDIT: I want to ride the whole enchilada someday as I think it would be a killer ride..

  41. #41
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    Looks like it's on! The Whole Enchilada Enduro
    Last edited by KRob; 03-05-2012 at 10:54 AM.
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  42. #42
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    Awesome format. Can't wait for sign ups.

  43. #43
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    Sweet baby Jesus yes

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  44. #44
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    This looks fun! I'll probably sign up.

    I rode from the Hazard parking lot DOWN in 1:57 on a 37 pound rig(timed it cuz I had to catch a plane), and I thought I was pretty effin' cool. Anyone pulling a 1:30 from the top is blindingly fast.

    This course has Chilcotin written all over it.

    On a side note, I rode "Magnificent 7" in Moab a few months back, and it makes the Enchilada feel like a lunch loop. It's bigger, burlier, way more technical, and takes far greater fitness. I would ask these guys to make this event a 2 day stage race in the future, but I doubt they could get insurance for the Portal Trail traverse in Mag 7. Haha. Scary.
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    This looks fun! I'll probably sign up.

    I rode from the Hazard parking lot DOWN in 1:57 on a 37 pound rig(timed it cuz I had to catch a plane), and I thought I was pretty effin' cool. Anyone pulling a 1:30 from the top is blindingly fast.

    This course has Chilcotin written all over it.

    On a side note, I rode "Magnificent 7" in Moab a few months back, and it makes the Enchilada feel like a lunch loop. It's bigger, burlier, way more technical, and takes far greater fitness. I would ask these guys to make this event a 2 day stage race in the future, but I doubt they could get insurance for the Portal Trail traverse in Mag 7. Haha. Scary.
    Yes, the Chilcotin would be the perfect Burro Down weapon.

    I hadn't thought of Mag 7 to Portal as a Super D race. Lot's of uphill in that route. You wouldn't get authorization for Blue Dot either and the Gold Bar Jeep route would SUCK as a race.

    Maybe Amasa as the second stage would be an option.

    As far as Mag 7 being more difficult than TWE.... I'd just say different. Both really fun. Both long rides. Both physically demanding.
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  46. #46
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    I'm in. It sounds like most of the big Super D racers will be there.
    Keep the Country country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post

    As far as Mag 7 being more difficult than TWE.... I'd just say different. Both really fun. Both long rides. Both physically demanding.
    Oh man, I gotta disagree. We did Mag 7 on day 1 a few months ago, then did Hazard Down the next day and it literally felt like a warm up. We went and did Amassa/RockStacker/Jacksons after lunch.

    Who really cares, moab has really gotten their act together with the BLM, and we are all reaping the benefits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    Oh man, I gotta disagree. We did Mag 7 on day 1 a few months ago, then did Hazard Down the next day and it literally felt like a warm up. We went and did Amassa/RockStacker/Jacksons after lunch.

    Who really cares, moab has really gotten their act together with the BLM, and we are all reaping the benefits.
    Yes moab has top notch riding! I agree hazard down is less demanding than mag when you do blue dot portal, but the Whole Ench is quite a bit more physical than mag IMO. More alternate lines too.

  49. #49
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    I need to do the mag 7 trail, sounds awesome

    dusty- I've done hazard down and the whole enchilada, big difference, the climb and the steep descent off the top add a whole nuther chapter to the ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder View Post
    I've done hazard down and the whole enchilada, big difference, the climb and the steep descent off the top add a whole nuther chapter to the ride.
    Yup. If the race was just Hazard down I'd use my Mojo SL. With Burro Pass in there I'll be using my FR bike, a Scott Genius LT.
    Keep the Country country.

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