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  1. #1
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    Burro Down/Whole Enchilada Enduro race in Moab

    Anyone heard of this? I stumbled across this site, and I'm very intrigued. Any thoughts/expectations on how this would be run? Mass start with a gravel climb? Staggered TT style start? Who's in?

    I can't wait to hear more about this.

    EnchiladaEnduro.com

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    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfxc View Post
    Anyone heard of this? I stumbled across this site, and I'm very intrigued. Any thoughts/expectations on how this would be run? Mass start with a gravel climb? Staggered TT style start? Who's in?

    I can't wait to hear more about this.

    EnchiladaEnduro.com
    If the climb up to the top of Haystack is included, I would think a mass start would separate the pack enough to keep the initial singletrack from getting too crowded. That climb is as brutal as any I can think of. The rider who can crest that then clean everything - or most of everything - that follows, will truly be a total all around animal.

    Here's a taste of what it could look like going down:
    Moab, Utah Enduro marathon "The Whole Enchiladas" - Video
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    Thanks for the info.
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    I'm only familiar with the unofficial race that starts at the saddle (top of Burro) and runs to teh Colorado river. I recall a guy from Frisco or maybe Silverthorne, CO has the record...like 1 hour 42 minutes or something crazy silly fast.

    If they formalize it, it would be nuts for sure.

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    This was in the works for this year but the organizer didn't get the permiting done in time. I think the FS had signed off on it but was still awaiting BLM approval.

    If I'm not mistaken it was to be a time trial starting at Burro Pass.

    If they could get this approved, it would be the ultimate endurance DH/Super D.
    Last edited by KRob; 12-28-2011 at 12:01 PM.

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    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    If they could get this approved, it would be the ultimate endurance DH/Super D.
    Given the hellish climb and the gnarly descent, what will be the bike of choice: sub 30lb AM with 5 or 6" travel? A full on free-ride bike would require push up the hill by most humans at 10,000 feet.. I can think of two guys who could pedal a big bike up that hill, then clean the whole downhill, intials EC and BL. I'm sure there are plenty of others, like a lot of Moab locals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Given the hellish climb and the gnarly descent, what will be the bike of choice: sub 30lb AM with 5 or 6" travel? A full on free-ride bike would require push up the hill by most humans at 10,000 feet.. I can think of two guys who could pedal a big bike up that hill, then clean the whole downhill, intials EC and BL. I'm sure there are plenty of others, like a lot of Moab locals.
    Like I said, I think they were planning on doing a time trial starting at the top of Burro Pass.... so no 1500' climb at 11,000ft. Still plenty of pedaling and a few short climbs below that though. The climb up out of Warner lake camp ground is significant at race pace for sure.

    So yeah, 5-6" fairly light bike with tough wheels, biggish tires set up tubeless should be the hot set up. (4-5" 29er should work really well too). Full DH bikes will suffer in the climbs and the flattish sections on the Porc Rim jeep road.

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    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    So yeah, 5-6" fairly light bike with tough wheels, biggish tires set up tubeless should be the hot set up. (4-5" 29er should work really well too). Full DH bikes will suffer in the climbs and the flattish sections on the Porc Rim jeep road.
    A 29'er would be tough on the first few swtichbacks, but the level of skil a rider would have to clean the rest of the ride would make nose wheelies on the switchbacks look like a piece of cake. How about a Jamis 650b2, with Pacenti Neomoto 2.3? That's 5 travel, good rolling wheel size, and sub 30lbs (with a dropper post),
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    If the climb is included then I couldn't see wanting a bike more than about 30 lbs....a nicely built up 6" bike right around that weight wouldn't be terrible to pedal up (most of it) & be able to bomb down the other side. Would be a pretty wild race for sure, lots of variety on that trail(s).
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    It would be nice if the race became official and the riders started riding on the actual Burro trail. But it would add quite a bit to the times and make it less cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by axolotl View Post
    It would be nice if the race became official and the riders started riding on the actual Burro trail. But it would add quite a bit to the times and make it less cool.
    I've only been there once.i didn't know there was more than one. This is the one i remember and i recall walking the first 3 or 4 switchbacks
    Burro Pass
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Given the hellish climb and the gnarly descent, what will be the bike of choice: sub 30lb AM with 5 or 6" travel? A full on free-ride bike would require push up the hill by most humans at 10,000 feet.. I can think of two guys who could pedal a big bike up that hill, then clean the whole downhill, intials EC and BL. I'm sure there are plenty of others, like a lot of Moab locals.
    An enduro race covering The Whole Enchilada?I'd up for that With the initial climb included.
    But as impressive a ride (and a veritable hoot) that is in its entirety...Hellish climb?Gnarly descent?Ok, a short section of the first climb in on gravel and it really is difficult to ride, but other than that it's just another steep climb.And it's not that long.Save for that gravelly bit even I (and I'm no EC or BL, not by a long stretch) was able to climb the thing.On a 35 lb Intense 6.6 I only rode twice before that.And I don't remember anything that gnarly on the way down either (Upper Bodybag excluded, of course ).I remember a couple of tricky bits on the last part when you're riding along Colorado river but that would be about it.And I repeat, I don't consider myself a standout rider.
    That said, the thing would definitely be very physically demanding at race pace, no doubt about it.But except for the top riders you go ride an enduro like that mostly for fun, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    I've only been there once.i didn't know there was more than one. This is the one i remember and i recall walking the first 3 or 4 switchbacks
    Burro Pass
    They have been running a mass start that freefalls down burro without really using the trail. Think about how much it would slow you down to do all those switchbacks in the beginning

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by problematiks View Post
    An enduro race covering The Whole Enchilada?I'd up for that With the initial climb included.
    But as impressive a ride (and a veritable hoot) that is in its entirety...Hellish climb?Gnarly descent?Ok, a short section of the first climb in on gravel and it really is difficult to ride, but other than that it's just another steep climb.And it's not that long.Save for that gravelly bit even I (and I'm no EC or BL, not by a long stretch) was able to climb the thing.On a 35 lb Intense 6.6 I only rode twice before that.And I don't remember anything that gnarly on the way down either (Upper Bodybag excluded, of course ).I remember a couple of tricky bits on the last part when you're riding along Colorado river but that would be about it.And I repeat, I don't consider myself a standout rider.
    That said, the thing would definitely be very physically demanding at race pace, no doubt about it.But except for the top riders you go ride an enduro like that mostly for fun, right?

    Marko
    The initially climb is hellish mainly because of the altitude @10-11k feet. On the descent you've got the lower rim parts you mention as "tricky" then there's "the notch " on upper rim equally "tricky" if not insane:

    Riding the "Notch" on the Porcupine Rim MTB trail in Moab - YouTube

    To clean the climb requires what I would consider above average x-c / roadie fitness; to clean the whole desceent requires above average FR / DH skills, with some trials moves thrown in for good measure. So the rider who can clean both is truly an all round animal, which is why I mention EC and BL. So, Consider yourself "stand out"
    Last edited by dwt; 12-29-2011 at 06:58 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    The initially climb is hellish mainly because of the altitude @10-11k feet. On the descent you've got the lower rim parts you mention as "tricky" then there's "the notch " on upper rim equally "tricky" if not insane:

    Riding the "Notch" on the Porcupine Rim MTB trail in Moab - YouTube
    I'm thinking the official race would mirror the other. Start at the pass-finish at the river. Folks will likely ride the snotch not the notch in order to avoid the climb and reduce time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by axolotl View Post
    I'm thinking the official race would mirror the other. Start at the pass-finish at the river. Folks will likely ride the snotch not the notch in order to avoid the climb and reduce time.
    As a non-local, that is confusing to me - not sure what is what.

    The true test of strength would require doing the "real" trails, up and down, eh?
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    The notch (or Upper Bodybag, as I think people also call it) is indeed a handful to say the least

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    Quote Originally Posted by axolotl View Post
    They have been running a mass start that freefalls down burro without really using the trail. Think about how much it would slow you down to do all those switchbacks in the beginning
    Holy cow! Is there a trail that goes straight down off the summit or are they just buswhacking it? That sounds steep.

    I've always wondered what route is taken for those "best times" I've seen posted. For instance, do they take the pipeline canal rather than staying on the official trail? Do they take the more direct original Hazard County route rather than the official windy one? Do they stay on Kokopelli to the road then sprint over to the top of LPS rather than doing UPS?

    For an official, permitted race they would have to stay on the approved trail I would assume.

    And I agree with problematiks, for the most part, there's nothing too "gnarly" on the descent that would make a DH or FR bike an advantage. There's miles of stuff where a light 5-6" bike would rule though.

    I disagree with Marko (problematiks) on the climb up to Burro Pass if included in the race though. That would be an absolute killer at race pace and would separate the XC endurance freaks from the field and would definitely take its toll for the rest of the ride.

    And I also disagree with Marko on his abilities. He's a climbing animal.

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    The snotch is a go around for the notch. The main reason the racers would use it is because there is no climb afterwards. Unfortunately there is some people who think trails should be rideable by the masses. So instead of learning to ride better, the thinking is to make the trails easier. The snotch is just such a section. It is considered the trail, so it is real in a sense. The part of the trail that gets me is near the river getting up out of the last drainage. That 4ft step up gets me every time!
    The climb to the pass is not needed IMO, because the trail down is immensely challenging without it. But it would serve as a good way to thin out the pack in a mass start and allow requiring riders to stay on the trail for upper Burro.
    The people who ride the underground version are crazy good and amazingly strong and fit. Any way you ride it, burro down is a true test of strength.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Holy cow! Is there a trail that goes straight down off the summit or are they just buswhacking it? That sounds steep.

    I've always wondered what route is taken for those "best times" I've seen posted. For instance, do they take the pipeline canal rather than staying on the official trail? Do they take the more direct original Hazard County route rather than the official windy one? Do they stay on Kokopelli to the road then sprint over to the top of LPS rather than doing UPS?
    Just pick a line. Don't know about pipeline, I bet if its faster, guys are runnin it though. Seems like going around ups-lps would be cheating though. Who knows? with times getting close to 1.5 hours?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by axolotl View Post
    The snotch is a go around for the notch. The main reason the racers would use it is because there is no climb afterwards. Unfortunately there is some people who think trails should be rideable by the masses. So instead of learning to ride better, the thinking is to make the trails easier. The snotch is just such a section. It is considered the trail, so it is real in a sense. The part of the trail that gets me is near the river getting up out of the last drainage. That 4ft step up gets me every time!
    The climb to the pass is not needed IMO, because the trail down is immensely challenging without it. But it would serve as a good way to thin out the pack in a mass start and allow requiring riders to stay on the trail for upper Burro.
    The people who ride the underground version are crazy good and amazingly strong and fit. Any way you ride it, burro down is a true test of strength.
    Test of strength and skill.

    As far as rideable vs. improving, there is the learning curve that at places like Moab could kill you or maim you in the process, no? Not everyone was created to have the ability to clean the really challenging stuff.


    I could practice from now to the end of my life and I will never be able to clean the notch and definitely the part you mention near the river. The notch: brass balls and cat-like balance. The lower rim section near the river: trials + FR skills over my head to get down, plus animal strength to get out of the last drainage. To clean the whole enchilada, you need to have the whole Enchilada package of skill + strength. Those who can are a fortunate minority, I think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I disagree with Marko (problematiks) on the climb up to Burro Pass if included in the race though. That would be an absolute killer at race pace and would separate the XC endurance freaks from the field and would definitely take its toll for the rest of the ride.

    And I also disagree with Marko on his abilities. He's a climbing animal.
    You have a point there.It could give the really fit quite a bit of a headstart for the rest of the ride.

    As for me being a climbing animal...a burro, perhaps

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    Quote Originally Posted by problematiks View Post
    The notch (or Upper Bodybag, as I think people also call it) is indeed a handful to say the least

    Marko

    It was a handful until they sanitized it and rerouted the steep section after the crux. It's much easier than it used to be, and cutting out the steep flowy turns after the notch is a real bummer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by axolotl View Post
    The snotch is a go around for the notch. The main reason the racers would use it is because there is no climb afterwards. Unfortunately there is some people who think trails should be rideable by the masses. So instead of learning to ride better, the thinking is to make the trails easier. The snotch is just such a section. It is considered the trail, so it is real in a sense. The part of the trail that gets me is near the river getting up out of the last drainage. That 4ft step up gets me every time!
    The climb to the pass is not needed IMO, because the trail down is immensely challenging without it. But it would serve as a good way to thin out the pack in a mass start and allow requiring riders to stay on the trail for upper Burro.
    The people who ride the underground version are crazy good and amazingly strong and fit. Any way you ride it, burro down is a true test of strength.
    The real bummer here is they dumbed down the notch after creating an alternative route? This is what baffles me. If you build an easier option, why make the more difficult option easier too? This is a sore spot for me because I LOVE natural tech, and there are few legal trails with challenging tech like the notch. It's still a super fun section, but it's just not as fun as it used to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimat99 View Post
    It was a handful until they sanitized it and rerouted the steep section after the crux. It's much easier than it used to be, and cutting out the steep flowy turns after the notch is a real bummer.
    they really dummed down the turns after the crux? that hard to believe. while few could manage the the section before the steep, smooth turns, anybody could handle the aftermath.
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