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  1. #1
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    Blue Pig vs 456 evo2 or another?

    Hi. Looking to switch my clapped out xc/trail bike for an am hardtail. My original choice was NS Surge, but apparently that is out of production. My next two choices are a 456 or a Blue Pig. I will be putting a 90/110/130 fox talas with 1.25 steer tube on there. What concerns me with blue pig is it states that to run a 130mm fork I need an external cup headset, so im not sure how that will work with my current fork. Any suggestions? Any other frame I should be looking at?

  2. #2
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    How about a piglet? designed around shorter travel

  3. #3
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    i like having the option of sticking something slightly burlier on there, if i choose to later

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    Have you considered a Santa Cruz Chameleon? It isn't steel but it is a very burly frame. It is designed to be used with a 120 to 150mm fork. I have one in my fleet and it is a great all mountain hard tail. It's also 2 pounds lighter than the other frames you mentioned which I appreciate on long climbs.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dboneslick View Post
    Have you considered a Santa Cruz Chameleon? It isn't steel but it is a very burly frame. It is designed to be used with a 120 to 150mm fork. I have one in my fleet and it is a great all mountain hard tail.
    its a bit pricy, hence why stuff like evil or chromag isn't really on my list

  6. #6
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    what about a cotic bfe (the Product of COTIC cycles : BFe, very very tough steel hardtail) ? anyone familiar with these?

  7. #7
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    OP, the only concern I'd have with Ragley is if their business is sound. I think it's been a tough road for them since Brant left. On One is a much larger company and I'd be more comfortable that they'll be around in a few years if I had a warranty claim.

    Otherwise, I enjoyed my v1 Blue Pig while I owned it. My fat old arse isn't up to riding a long travel hard tail which is the only reason I sold it. Hope this helps.

  8. #8
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    Who told you the surge wasn't being produced any longer? sounds like bull **** to me *sniff sniff* smells like it too

  9. #9
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    I own a BFe and am very satisfied, it's though and I use it on anything between XC and small jumps. I run it with a 140mm fork, which is supposed to fit it the best.

  10. #10
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    I ran a 115 or 120 Reba on my Blue Pig for awhile, and I banged pedals quite a lot. That, to me, was the only downside.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    Who told you the surge wasn't being produced any longer? sounds like bull **** to me *sniff sniff* smells like it too
    The local dealer. I dont see why they would lie to me unless they are just too lazy to procure the frame?

  12. #12
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    i went with the 456, it was simple, proven and relatively inexpensive. couldnt get better than that. even the purchasing process was very swift.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hapeepotter View Post
    i went with the 456, it was simple, proven and relatively inexpensive. couldnt get better than that. even the purchasing process was very swift.
    BTI is the distributer and they have em its an awesome bike

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    BTI is the distributer and they have em its an awesome bike
    are you talking about the surge?? sorry im a bit confused

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by hapeepotter View Post
    i went with the 456, it was simple, proven and relatively inexpensive. couldnt get better than that. even the purchasing process was very swift.
    this. the only thing I don't love about the new evo2 is the fact that it doesn't have a tapered headset, which the blue pig does. also, if it is a factor, the evo2 is about 100 less than the then pig.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pizon View Post
    are you talking about the surge?? sorry im a bit confused
    Yea i am. The surge is awesome the option to run single speed without a guide and the beefyness of it. Also its not super slack. Not trying to tell you what to buy but they are available and id hate for you not to get one cause you think thier discontinied.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    Yea i am. The surge is awesome the option to run single speed without a guide and the beefyness of it. Also its not super slack. Not trying to tell you what to buy but they are available and id hate for you not to get one cause you think thier discontinied.
    where the hell do I find one? i haven't seen them sold online (the crc link leads to nothing) and you already know the info the local ns dealer gave me. I might check out another local bike shop.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonik666 View Post
    I own a BFe and am very satisfied, it's though and I use it on anything between XC and small jumps. I run it with a 140mm fork, which is supposed to fit it the best.
    im leaning to wards this right now. What kinda jumps are you talking about here (dj or more dh style) ?

  19. #19
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    I've got the evo 2 and it's phenomenal.

  20. #20
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    Looks like BTI doesnt have the surge listed anymore.. When i bought mine 3 months ago they had 20 in stock... An email to them might get you where you want to be


    Bicycle Technologies International

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pizon View Post
    its a bit pricy, hence why stuff like evil or chromag isn't really on my list
    go to the santa cruz website and chameleon frames are on sale direct for $350!!

    however the chameleon is one STIFF mother. super fun to ride for your flowy smooth jumpy trails but anything longer than about 2 hours it will beat you up. I'd go steel on a hardtail for trail riding.

  22. #22
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    If your'e looking for a surge let me know. I have the most recent version of the frame, in a sweet custom powdercoated blue. (My friend work for a powdercoaters, so I usually powdercoat all my frames, so much more durable than the stock paint). I think I road it about half a dozen times before I found a hardtail wasn't for me.

    Hit me up if you're interested.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonic reducer View Post
    go to the santa cruz website and chameleon frames are on sale direct for $350!!

    however the chameleon is one STIFF mother. super fun to ride for your flowy smooth jumpy trails but anything longer than about 2 hours it will beat you up. I'd go steel on a hardtail for trail riding.
    The $350 Chameleon is the previous generation frame. It has an eccentric bottom bracket and does not have ISCG tabs. If this ins't a deal breaker for you, it would be a great deal for that frame. It's still well suited for a 130-150mm travel fork.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pizon View Post
    Hi. Looking to switch my clapped out xc/trail bike for an am hardtail. My original choice was NS Surge, but apparently that is out of production. My next two choices are a 456 or a Blue Pig. I will be putting a 90/110/130 fox talas with 1.25 steer tube on there. What concerns me with blue pig is it states that to run a 130mm fork I need an external cup headset, so im not sure how that will work with my current fork. Any suggestions? Any other frame I should be looking at?
    Blue Pig is great, I had the chance to test it recently and I was happily surprised...
    Last edited by Max24; 03-02-2015 at 06:30 PM.

  25. #25
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    Well, it's been a year's wait for me, but hopefully I'll be getting my new Alpine (mk3) frame soon. They were out of it for the past year while Dialled Bikes worked on their bmx and 4x team effort and moving warehouse.

    Alpine

    I currently ride the Prince Albert (set up with a 120mm fork). And while its a great aggressive XC frame, I remember how much fun I had on a mk2 Alpine with a 140mm. The current frame has a 1.5 head tube so you can run pretty much any fork out there with the proper headset. Also has ISCG.

    Pretty springy ride, pretty darn tough, has very accurate rear with the CNC dropouts.
    Just get out and ride!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravityfreaky View Post
    I've got the evo 2 and it's phenomenal.
    I second this. Coming from an entry level aluminum hardtail and swapping over the mods (wide bars, 50mm stem, brakes, etc..), I am quite impressed. Same 2.1 Velociraptor tires on narrow rims (next on the chopping block for some bigger tubeless rubber and rims to match) and the rear end is much more compliant over rocks and roots. I've only run it at 120mm, so not very all mountainy lol, but it is way more confidence inspiring and jumpable that my previous frame. Climbs better too, but really likes to be pointed downhill. I hear it comes alive with a 140-160mm fork, but I couldn't tell you haha. Maybe it's just new stoke but I'm really happy with the evo2. Price is right too.

    I have noticed more pedal strikes and it begs to be ridden beyond my skill level which has gotten me in some hairy situations haha. Two minor downsides that I feel the positives outweigh.

  27. #27
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    Surge is out of production, only to be replaced by the surge evo. It's in the background of the pic of the dh rig. NS Bikes' New Downhill and Enduro Rigs - Eurobike 2013 - Pinkbike

  28. #28
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    Glad to see the dropouts are the same incase i need more later on... wonder what they changed.. the regular surge is still on their site

  29. #29
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    I finally got my Alpine delivered. What a beautiful frame!!

    Now to start the build. Hm...need to find a new headset. Not used to the 44mm 0 stacks...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Blue Pig vs 456 evo2 or another?-alpine-frame-2.jpg  

    Blue Pig vs 456 evo2 or another?-british-steel-beav.jpg  

    Just get out and ride!

  30. #30
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    another shot
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Blue Pig vs 456 evo2 or another?-alpine-frame-1.jpg  

    Just get out and ride!

  31. #31
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    so i bit the bullet an bought the BFe. The reviews that I found were all solid, it has nice short chain stays which I like, and I can run my 1.5 headtube lyric on it (gonna drop the travel to 150 on it) if I want to do some rougher trails. Will post a pic once its all build up

  32. #32
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    I suspect you will be very happy with the Cotic, I was set on them before a chromag frame came up that I couldn't pass over. Enjoy!

  33. #33
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    Re: Blue Pig vs 456 evo2 or another?

    So it arrived. Currently in the shop getting prepped and headset put in. Build pic + ride report to follow soon. Stoked

    Sent from my HTC-X710a using Tapatalk now Free

  34. #34
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    Still digging my blue pig, lightened it up a bit with new wheels and fork.

    nothing witty here...

  35. #35
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    Blue Pig vs 456 evo2 or another?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2w4s View Post
    Still digging my blue pig, lightened it up a bit with new wheels and fork.

    I like .... I would be interested to see your build specs....

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by becker999 View Post
    I like .... I would be interested to see your build specs....
    pretty basic build, really

    Frame: 2011 Ragley BP, 16"
    Fork: 2012 RS Sector with Revelation internals 150mm
    Wheels: Stan's Flow EX
    Hubs: DTSwiss DT240, 15mm Fr
    Bars: Easton Havoc 750mm
    Stem: Truvativ Holzfeller 35mm
    Headset: Cane Creek
    Brakes: Shimano XT, 180fr, 160rr
    shifter: SRAM x9 9spd
    grips: ODI Troy Lee
    cranks: Truvativ stylo
    chainwheel: Rennen 1x9
    Chainguide: MRP topguide
    cassette: SRAM PG990 9Spd
    Derailleur: SRAM X9 Shortcage
    Tires: FR-Minion EXO RR-Larsen TT 2ply set up tubeless
    nothing witty here...

  37. #37
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    So it was a bit tricky finding the correct headset. 44mm with standard lower cup. But once I got the Nukeproof headset from Chainreactioncycles, I was able to build the rest of the bike up pretty quickly.

    Just came back from a 3hr ride involving 1hr of climbing a fire road, 50min of downhill (pointed downhill...not FR) switchbacks and 50min of XC...

    Simply awesome. Coming from a steel hardtail made for aggressive XC riding, the frame is stiffer (for more accuracty), but compliant (on bumps) at the same time. Very stable with slack HA but climbs well with steep STA. Slower steering than the XC frame but more maneuverable...IDK how to explain it any better. Just more fun to dance with.

    Blue Pig vs 456 evo2 or another?-orange-alpine.jpg
    Just get out and ride!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaPanthers View Post
    this. the only thing I don't love about the new evo2 is the fact that it doesn't have a tapered headset, which the blue pig does. also, if it is a factor, the evo2 is about 100 less than the then pig.
    How do you figure? the EVO2 is $329 and the blue pig is on CRC for $307 and you can get another $20 off with a coupon code so that's 287 for the blue pig. That is the deciding factor for me.

  39. #39
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    I stand corrected! When I was looking for a new frame the Blue Pig/Piglet was $440 and the Evo2 was $330, but this was back in the summer.

    Good call though, I'm all about saving money!

  40. #40
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    Oh okay awesome! I wasn't trying to call you out on anything, just trying to get the best deal!

    On a sidenote. CRC has the 2014 blue pig listed for $307 and 10% off everything right now, so if my math is correct that's $277 shipped to your door! Awesome deal.

  41. #41
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    My Pig is on its way across the pond right now! Will post when my new/old build is complete.

  42. #42
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    Awesome man, i'm really leaning towards the pig myself because of the price difference. Did you go with the black or the yellow?

  43. #43
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    Ordered the black in 18". I was monitoring the CRC site for a number of weeks to catch when they came back in stock and jumped on it right away. As of a couple days ago they still had both colors in most sizes. And I got it for the $307 - 10% coupon for November noted above (+ free shipping from England!). Can't beat that price for an innovative steel hardtail with 'modern' features like the 44mm headset and ISCG bracket tabs.

    I also went all-out and ordered a set of black Ragley riser bars and a shorter stem to go with their recommended short stem setup. Will be building it with my 5 yr old 130mm Revelation U-Turn and Mavic 719 wheels, plus my old X-9 2x9 drivetrain and Juicy brakes. A "new" bike for less than $400 invested - including the headset. I'm psyched.

    Going retro after I broke my full suspension frame & I'm 52 years old. Will report back unless this finally does me in!

  44. #44
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    Wow your in the same boat as me, broke my Rocky Mountain full suspension frame and going for a new hardtail! Can't wait to hear the ride report. Also how tall are you? I'm having a hard deciding between 18" and 20" as i am 6'3", but i love the ability to throw it around!

  45. #45
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    I'm 6'0, 32-33" inseam and am right at the break point between 18-20" frames. Went with the 18" for that reason - this bike is designed more towards the 'thrown around' side. There is another thread here with tons of posts that is worth reading through if you're seriously considering a Pig:

    Ragley Blue Pig

    Sounds like you'd take a 20" or else a really long seat post. I'll report back how it fits me. Good luck!

  46. #46
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    So it came a week to the day of the order. Went together perfectly, not having to face anything or chase BB threads. The 18" fits me well - the wheelbase is longer than I expected for this size. Very solid ride, VERY efficient peddler from the big, stiff rear triangle. The short stem and wide bars demand constant attention however: you can be off your line in an instant if you're not careful. (The 740mm Ragley bars are real tree-catchers for mid-Atlantic single track anyway, so might trim them a bit.) Doesn't get up in the air too easily with this build that's on the heavy side.

    I'm running an older 130mm Revelation which is ok - even with the external bottom headset cup, but this rig could really benefit from a 150mm fork. This frame would eat up a brand new Pike, but that would be 2x my total investment so far!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Blue Pig vs 456 evo2 or another?-img_1017.jpg  


  47. #47
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    @teecat

    What were you riding before? if the front end wanders with a 130 fork id hate to see you with a 160 or 180. It cant be that bad can it? how much it weigh??

  48. #48
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    Not wander: sensitive to control input from the shorter stem and wide bars. Not a bad thing - kind of what this bike is all about. The frame would really shine with a 150 or 160 (Ragley recommends an internal bottom headset cup for this configuration). Don't really think this is a good candidate for a 180mm fork.

  49. #49
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    Sorry for digging up an old thread but..... Is there really no headset that can make a tapered fork work with the 456? Heard something about this.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montuckyhuck View Post
    Sorry for digging up an old thread but..... Is there really no headset that can make a tapered fork work with the 456? Heard something about this.
    With the old style 1-1/8" EC34 headset standard? Not that I've ever heard of. You'd have an absurdly tall and fat lower headset cup in order to make a tapered fork work on an EC34 frame.
    Florence Nightingale's Stormtrooper

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