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  1. #1
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    BLT2 Vs Tracer VP vs Reign

    Hello

    I'm loohking for a new bike for all purpose, actually i rode a Specialized enduro '04.

    I can't choose between Blur LT2, Intense Tracer VP and Giant Reign ¿any opinion?

  2. #2
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    He poseído dos reinados, un modelo 05 y 08. Ambas son grandes bicicletas eran y valor excelente. I ahora posee un BLT y, en mi opinión, es una mejor bicicleta pero maÌ?n valor.
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  3. #3
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    My vote goes for the Reign, better value, more travel. Cheaper of the three, but search a little in the giant forum, measures up with the rest of the bunch. Suerte!!!

  4. #4
    kneecap
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    Como es "valor"?

  5. #5
    I'm SUCH a square....
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    BLT2; heard too much neg about the Giant from other users, and the Tracer, being new (and being Intense!), is a bit overpriced -- can't tell ME it's 150% of the BLT2!!
    A bike is the only drug with no bad side effects....

  6. #6
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    what have you heard negative about giants? they're fantastic bikes. it might not be everyones favorite bike, but you're not going to find a lot of people with some sense that have much negative to say about them at all. they have one of the best suspensions on the market, no cheapo rattles and squeaks, and all their frames are light and strong..

    they're not the best bikes ever, but they're FAR from being bad.

  7. #7
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    BLT, the reign is nice but if you are heavier the bearings are going to wear quickly.

  8. #8
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    curious as to why you don't have a nomad in the mix as it's only .3 of an inch more travel than the tracer. it has the new vpp set up and is a pretty sweet ride

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ants
    curious as to why you don't have a nomad in the mix as it's only .3 of an inch more travel than the tracer. it has the new vpp set up and is a pretty sweet ride
    Reigns (of which I have owned 2) are about 7 or 8 out of 10 for ride quality and about 9 or 9.5 for value. My BLT2 is about 9 for ride and 7 for value. Mind you this is at the prices we pay in Australia. A BLT2 frame costs about the same as a complete Reign 1. For some reason Giants are pretty cheap here compared with Europe, USA and Canada. Maybe its because we are relatively close to Asia.

    Ironically BLTs frames are now manufactured in China and shipped to the US to be painted and assembled and then shipped back to our side of the world.

  10. #10
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    I ride a Reign and have seen the BLT2 as someone I know got one in a warranty repair upgrade. The Intense Tracer will not been seen for a bit. I have the original '99 in the garage still, but never ride it.

    The Reign will not satisfy your inner bling factor. It is not flashy. I too have not seen or heard of negatives on bearings or such.

    As far as parallel goes the Reign is different than the VPP in design. The Reign does not use chain tension to neutralize bob, but sag. They might have fixed it some, but the theory still remains. I like a bike that does not use a shock (compression dampening) to keep it from bobbing.

    I ride mine everywhere and so far it hasn't let me down. I just put a 36 Float RC2 on and it is better now in every way.

    Of the BLT2 and Reign they are between sizes of one another, the Reign will be a bit slacker and the BB will be higher. Cost was my driving factor, and Maestro/DW vs VPP.

    Rob

  11. #11
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    Thank you for yours opinions.
    I will have got a unique bike, only one bike in my garaje...than i need "the complete bike"... so t don´t think about nomad, nomad is fantastic but is too wild for all purpose i think.

    The price is not very important, because i only buy one bike in ¡five years!

    Well, Blur LT2 is the winner?
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    Last edited by migue; 11-03-2008 at 09:56 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by migue
    Well, Blur LT2 is the winner?
    Good choice, it splits the difference between the Tracer and the Reign in price, cost but not performance.

    There is one area that the Reign is superior to the BLT2, ie granny ring pedaling.

    If you never need "granny" to get up your local mountains then the BLT2 may be your perfect trail bike. I have observed the rear suspension absorbing 2 and 3 inch rocks and roots (like they were nonexistent) while cranking it up a moderate grade in middle ring. Amazing you can even stand up and stomp in middle ring and with very little squat.

    While the Blur has remarkable suspension action versus smooth pedaling in middle ring, there is some feed-back in granny ring, ie when hitting bumps there is some tugging at the cranks. A hard stomp at the pedals while hitting a larger obstacle (4/5 inch) will result in the rear wheel kicking down instead of absorbing the impact. This may result in stalling if you dont have much momentum.

    I think this is a VPP thing in general and apparently there is less kick-back on the the latest versions of Santa Cruz and Intense bikes,( eg BLT2 Nomad 2, Tracer ect...) but I still think its a great suspension system.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack'sDad
    I ride a Reign...

    As far as parallel goes the Reign is different than the VPP in design. The Reign does not use chain tension to neutralize bob, but sag. They might have fixed it some, but the theory still remains. I like a bike that does not use a shock (compression dampening) to keep it from bobbing.

    Rob
    Can you explain how those suspensions work in a little more depth, and it's unclear to me which one you prefer.

    Thanks.

  14. #14
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    I have a new Tracer and was riding the old 6.6. I can tell you that the pedal feedback in the granny gear is gone on the VPP generation two (at least on the Tracer it is).

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by other aardvark
    Good choice, it splits the difference between the Tracer and the Reign in price, cost but not performance.

    There is one area that the Reign is superior to the BLT2, ie granny ring pedaling.

    If you never need "granny" to get up your local mountains then the BLT2 may be your perfect trail bike. I have observed the rear suspension absorbing 2 and 3 inch rocks and roots (like they were nonexistent) while cranking it up a moderate grade in middle ring. Amazing you can even stand up and stomp in middle ring and with very little squat.

    While the Blur has remarkable suspension action versus smooth pedaling in middle ring, there is some feed-back in granny ring, ie when hitting bumps there is some tugging at the cranks. A hard stomp at the pedals while hitting a larger obstacle (4/5 inch) will result in the rear wheel kicking down instead of absorbing the impact. This may result in stalling if you dont have much momentum.

    I think this is a VPP thing in general and apparently there is less kick-back on the the latest versions of Santa Cruz and Intense bikes,( eg BLT2 Nomad 2, Tracer ect...) but I still think its a great suspension system.
    Very interesting, so I have in mind

  16. #16
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    if you can only buy a bike every few years, get the giant. the reason is warranty. santa cruz and intense are generally bad in that department.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding
    Can you explain how those suspensions work in a little more depth, and it's unclear to me which one you prefer.

    Thanks.
    preference between the three is a personal opinion.

    they are all 3 (maestro/vpp/DW) extremely similar *except* each design places the points of pivot in slightly different locations.

    they all 3 work on the principle of having the rear axle move in a more or less S-like path (compared to a single pivot, or linkage SP where the axle travels in a nice arc) when going from from fully unloaded (no weight on the bike) to fully loaded (landing a sweet jump) and usually somewhere in the middle of the travel a sweet spot is found where chain pull is counteracted and not allowed to compress the suspension.

    i might also add, and this is my opinion, that they are each also improvements on, and a way to get around, the patented specialized horst link design.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregtheripper
    if you can only buy a bike every few years, get the giant. the reason is warranty. santa cruz and intense are generally bad in that department.
    yes the Giant's warranty is for 5 years and santa cruz Warranty is 2 years + "Limited No-Fault Replacement" Santa Cruz Bicycles will make replacement parts available to the original owner at a minimal charge in the event of a crash or other non-warranty situation.

    But actually my principal question is about blur's geometry and sizing.. because I am 5'10", 34" inseam then for my inseam i need L but i prefer M...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by migue
    my principal question is about blur's geometry and sizing.. because I am 5'10", 34" inseam then for my inseam i need L but i prefer M...
    how long a top tube ,and, what length stems do you prefer?

    do you prefer a bike with a slightly longer wheelbase and shorter stem, or longer stem and shorter wheelbase?

    i'm 5'10" as well, and after riding typically mediums with 110-120 stems for years, i gravitated towards large sized frames (both a blur and reign) with a 100 stem and feel much much more confident and comfortable.

    with all these bikes listed having such sloping top tubes, standover between a medium and large is gonna be barely noticable, so it's gonna come down to how long a top tube you prefer???

    hope this helps!
    Last edited by onespeedpaul; 11-15-2008 at 06:08 AM.

  20. #20
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    It comes down to money and fit. Fit is way more important than cost. If a bike doesn't fit you, it doesn't matter how much it costs, you will hate it. For the money, you cannot touch the Giant. I feel you are in between M-L on the Reign. I am 6'1" (32" inseam) and ride a L (20") '05 Reign with a 70mm stem and zero off-set post. The eff. TT is 24" on mine. You probalby will be happy on the BLT, they are great bikes.

    FWIW, I built my whole Reign for less than what a BLT or Tracer Frame costs. I did it by buying a new previous year frame and building it up with new and used parts from on-line.

    Congrats on the new bike!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by onespeedpaul
    preference between the three is a personal opinion.

    they are all 3 (maestro/vpp/DW) extremely similar *except* each design places the points of pivot in slightly different locations.

    they all 3 work on the principle of having the rear axle move in a more or less S-like path (compared to a single pivot, or linkage SP where the axle travels in a nice arc) when going from from fully unloaded (no weight on the bike) to fully loaded (landing a sweet jump) and usually somewhere in the middle of the travel a sweet spot is found where chain pull is counteracted and not allowed to compress the suspension.

    i might also add, and this is my opinion, that they are each also improvements on, and a way to get around, the patented specialized horst link design.
    ok, I'm going to sound like a dick here, but I'm going to disagree with you on pretty much every point here. The only similarities between them is that they are all dual link setups. They all feel pretty different, and as far as function they're very different. VPP uses chain tension to control the pedal bob, has a bit more squat then the other two (dw/meastro). Heres where it gets funny: santa cruz is the only one to claim the whole S type axle path. If you look at VPP and dw, they're both fairly vertical through almost all of the travel, and then come slightly forward near the end of the travel. Now, here's where it gets even funnier: Santa Cruz engineers recently (within the past year) came out and said "well, actually our axle path's don't follow an S curve like we claimed, and it doesn't really make a big difference, there's so much leverage being forced on the spring when you hit a bump that the wheel is going to move anyway, and axle path isn't a huge deal" - pretty much a 180 degree turnaround.

    dw and meastro are both based on two fairly different concepts from VPP (although dw and meastro share several traits) but the net effect is that they run fairly low comp damping settings and pedal real well.

    Not even going to get into the horst link version.

    At any rate, back OT, you really can't go wrong with the bikes listed. They're all fun. Get one and let us know how it goes!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by William42
    I'm going to disagree with you on pretty much every point here.
    no prob, everyone gets to have their own opinion including you and i.

    you defo got me on the "S" path. i should have clarified the point which is none travel in an arc like a single pivot between the axle and BB.

    maybe i'm just jaded....but i've ridden all three my fair share and have the opinion that the subtle differences in "feel" and their actual in-use operation are less than the marketing depts. would have you believe. i never discounted the subtleties either, and IMO it's even more subtle when comparing models with near-equal travel and geometry.

    and i'll still stick to guns on my horst-link opinion a debate for another post perhaps????

    **late edit** just wanted to throw in the RM element model too as being in the same design-group...adios fellas, it's time to go try and catch a shark!

  23. #23
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    I haven't ridden the new BLT, but I demo'd the new Tracer and it pedalled and climbed great, but downhill was just "eh." It was in 6" mode, RP23 sag was set correctly, but it just didn't feel very plush to me. Nothing technically wrong with it, but just didn't "feel" great on the downs.

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