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Thread: Best AM Trail?

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    Best AM Trail?

    Not sure if someone's posted this already, but what's the best All Mtn trail you've done? Not the most technical, but the most fun, well designed AM trail you've ever ridden?
    Last edited by mealsonwheels; 01-09-2013 at 09:44 PM. Reason: added question mark to title

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    The Whole Enchilada - Moab. I wouldn't even really classify it as "AM", but whatever it is, its the most fun I've had on a non-DH bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mealsonwheels View Post
    Not sure if someone's posted this already, but what's the best All Mtn trail you've done? Not the most technical, but the most fun, well designed AM trail you've ever ridden?
    What is an AM trail?

    AM is a descriptor of a type of bike or component, not a trail.
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    I second the Whole Enchilada. I make the pilgramage to ride it at least three or four times a year.

    Edit: BTW, I interpreted AM as an Enduro esque type trail for what its worth. I love Rainmaker at Winter Park, but I would classify that as downhill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithrider View Post
    I second the Whole Enchilada. I make the pilgramage to ride it at least three or four times a year.

    Edit: BTW, I interpreted AM as an Enduro esque type trail for what its worth. I love Rainmaker at Winter Park, but I would classify that as downhill.
    Question about Whole Enchilada: What is the earliest in the year you can do the whole thing? Some friends and I are considering a trip to that area in May. Are the upper elevations clear by then?
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    I would be remiss in giving you an exact date for the "Whole" Whole Enchilada, but I would guess you are only doing Hazard down at that point. Mid June and fall are safer bets to run the whole thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    What is an AM trail?

    AM is a descriptor of a type of bike or component, not a trail.
    Says who?

    According to the forum description: "More than XC, less than FR/DH." In a forum described as "All Moutain", it would follow that someone asking about an "All Mountain" trail is asking about trails that are (wait for it...) more than XC, less than FR/DH. With a post count so high, I'd guess you've probably had this discussion at least once....

    Last edited by jhazard; 01-10-2013 at 10:16 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Question about Whole Enchilada: What is the earliest in the year you can do the whole thing? Some friends and I are considering a trip to that area in May. Are the upper elevations clear by then?
    When I've gone in May, I've been able to get to either the top or the bottom of Kokopelli, depending on recent precip and road conditions. In a light snow year, and late May, you might have an outside chance at Hazard, but I wouldn't bet on it. No chance at Burro Pass. Much of it's steep, densely timbered, and north-facing, so I'd imagine it holds snow a long time.

    While I also tend to think as AM as more of a product category, I can certainly think of trails that are "more than XC and less than DH." Generally these are trails that we climb for the purpose of a killer descent. Most of the best trails like that in the mountains around here weren't designed as bike trails at all, but are old CCC trails in the USFS. Sometimes they're fairly smooth, but sometimes they're gnarly. We're spoiled for choice up here, actually. Lots of big-mountain backcountry epics.

    The Enchilada route is a bit different though, since the UPS and LPS portions were laid out with bikes in mind. That trail is definitely worth a pilgrimage. I wouldn't argue with it being one of the top contenders in this thread, since it has everything from super steep alpine to desert chunder. It's hard to say which section is my favorite. LPS is a strong contender, but Burro and Hazard are both so awesome that going in the spring is a little bittersweet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    Says who?

    According to the forum description: "More than XC, less than FR/DH." In a forum described as "All Moutain", it would follow that someone asking about an "All Mountain" trail is asking about trails that are (wait for it...) more than XC, less than FR/DH. With a post count so high, I'd guess you've probably had this discussion at least once....

    Pot, meet kettle.

    Says who? The people who first started using the term in relation to bikes. It was originally a term for a new type of bike being offered in the early 2000's. It still works well for this.

    As a descriptor of a trail type, it's pretty weak. Regarding "More than XC, less than FR/DH"...... More what? It's a stupid definition when you apply it to a trail. Ride Whole enchilada from the top down and it's "AM". Ride it up and back and its "XC". Same trail.

    I think "Enduro" or "Super-D" (where you go primarily down, or an event where the down part is what is timed) is what some people thinking about when they use the term "AM" trail. Other specifically think of "AM" and meaning a rough trail that you need to pedal to the top of to earn the down. Others just think it means a rough trail.

    It is a sloppy, imprecise word as applied to trails (evidenced by the endless threads arguing about what an "AM" trail is), and since it is also a descriptor of bikes and components, it has led to a lot of confusion and misconception about what stuff people need to ride what terrain.
    Last edited by kapusta; 01-10-2013 at 12:37 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    When I've gone in May, I've been able to get to either the top or the bottom of Kokopelli, depending on recent precip and road conditions. In a light snow year, and late May, you might have an outside chance at Hazard, but I wouldn't bet on it. No chance at Burro Pass. Much of it's steep, densely timbered, and north-facing, so I'd imagine it holds snow a long time.

    While I also tend to think as AM as more of a product category, I can certainly think of trails that are "more than XC and less than DH." Generally these are trails that we climb for the purpose of a killer descent. Most of the best trails like that in the mountains around here weren't designed as bike trails at all, but are old CCC trails in the USFS. Sometimes they're fairly smooth, but sometimes they're gnarly. We're spoiled for choice up here, actually. Lots of big-mountain backcountry epics.

    The Enchilada route is a bit different though, since the UPS and LPS portions were laid out with bikes in mind. That trail is definitely worth a pilgrimage. I wouldn't argue with it being one of the top contenders in this thread, since it has everything from super steep alpine to desert chunder. It's hard to say which section is my favorite. LPS is a strong contender, but Burro and Hazard are both so awesome that going in the spring is a little bittersweet.
    Thanks for the info
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithrider View Post
    I would be remiss in giving you an exact date for the "Whole" Whole Enchilada, but I would guess you are only doing Hazard down at that point. Mid June and fall are safer bets to run the whole thing.
    How is the rest of Moab in mid-June? I've been through there in July a few times, twice it was just brutally hot (did not have my bike, anyway), the other time it was overcast and quite pleasant to ride.
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    I figure that "all-mountain" means riding up, riding down, riding all around. With sufficient pucker moments occuring during all three to distinguish it from XC.

    Triple H in Sedona is a good AM ride. Best? I dunno, but it's 50-60km of riding, lots of exposure, plenty of climbing and descending, and plenty of trail (especially on Hangover) that a lot of decent riders will walk. Also a lot of pedalling.

    Much as I love Enchilada, and even just UPS down, I wouldnt' call it all mountain unless you ride up. And that's not so much fun. I've done it as a loop from town on several visits to Moab and, while riding up Sand Flats road and/or the hightway is solid exercise, it's not what I would call beaucoup fun when done on the sort of bike you want for the downhill. Riding up the trail itself is rarely an option, from what I've seen, given the amount of DH traffic. I also think Triple H has way more tech. Other than a couple of moves near the bottom of Enchilada, it's pretty easy to clean everything. It is wicked fast, which makes it fun, though!

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    Best AM Trail Combo

    +1 for the Whole Enchilada. But it is mostly downhill.

    You want a great combo of technical singletrack, downhill, climbs, ledges, lifts, drops, scenery and overall "epicness"?

    Contact Coyote Shuttle and get shuttled to the trailhead for Gemini Bridges.

    The route is:
    Gemini Bridges to Gold Spike Trail to Goldbar Rim to The Portal Trail.

    The bridges are amazing, the climb to the top of Goldbar Rim is a beast, it's like an all uphill Slickrock. Then you as you traverse toward The Portal it is a technical riding festival. The Portal is an exposure and technical riding legend.

    Can't wait to do it all again in October this year.
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    In the North East, Millers Pond is pretty awesome for a 2-3 hour tour features, tech, and pedally goodness.

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    Another for Enchilada. Best bet IMO is mid- late Sept; everything open, not so damn hot.

    If you take shuttle all the way up to the base of Burro, I'd call the climb up to the top a major one. If you can clean this on any bike- especially a 30+ lbs AM bike- you are a rock star climber in my book. If you can clean the entire descent, you are a rock star rider in anybody's book. The other climb up to the top of Hazard County is also tough but cleanable by a good AM rider on an average weight AM bike

    So it's an "AM" trail by whatever definition, AFAIC
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeCOLORADO View Post
    The route is:
    Gemini Bridges to Gold Spike Trail to Goldbar Rim to The Portal Trail.
    With the new(-ish) Mag-7 system, you actually would hardly use the Gemini road at all, and it's fantastic!

    And with that, I guess I'll toss my favorite as being some of the trails in that system and others that aren't "offically" the Mag-7. I like Bull Run, Arths Corner, Great Escape and Long Canyon.

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    i havnt sampled a lot of stuff but i am a fan of catamount in vt.

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    Jazz Chrome and Cabin boy in Vernal (think those were the names). Milk n cookies was good for what I could find, never found the bottom half of the trail though (well hidden for someone not being shown around by locals). More trail/XC but I had more fun on the Vernal trails than any other place that I've ridden.


    I've also had more flats, and gotten lost more often
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    How is the rest of Moab in mid-June? I've been through there in July a few times, twice it was just brutally hot (did not have my bike, anyway), the other time it was overcast and quite pleasant to ride.
    Mid June typically isn't too hot. It gets punitive around the July timeframe. There are several other great trails in the area if you make the trip: Mag 7, Sovereign, the revamped Klondike bluffs area, Amasa back etc.

    Also, to comment on The Whole Enchilada as not being all mountain as you don't climb, I would disagree to a certain extent. The climb up to the top of the La Salles, the climb to the top of Hazard, and all the undulations in between afford some decent pedaling.

    If we are just talking about long, Epic rides without regard to chunder, and techy moves, that gas your legs a bit more, there are a million of them in Colorado that are awesome: Monarch Crest (with rainbow), Kenosha Pass to Breckenridge, Segment 1 and 2 from Buff to Denver, etc, etc, etc. There are also some nice techy rides in Grand Junction and Fruita like the lunch loops.

    I still consider the Whole Enchilada an AM ride and stands as my favorite.

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    In my very limited experience, Tsali has been the best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Pot, meet kettle.

    It is a sloppy, imprecise word as applied to trails (evidenced by the endless threads arguing about what an "AM" trail is), and since it is also a descriptor of bikes and components, it has led to a lot of confusion and misconception about what stuff people need to ride what terrain.


    We all know there is a difference between riding a DH trail and an XC trail - "AM" is pointing to that difference.

    Judging from the responses so far, people seem to understand it - it all refers to the same type of riding no matter what its called - Enduro, Super D, or riding UP The Whole Enchilada...

    Mabye "All Mountain" is sloppy terminology... What should trails like this be called? Should they be called anything? Just "trails"?
    |end hijack|

    As for the T.W.E., its worth the wait to do the complete route which includes Burro pass. Its a killer alpine climb so you definitely still earn the turns, despite the shuttle. And the decent to Hazard: lush forest, running water/stream you have opportunity to jump, steeps, DIRT, roots... Not what you'd expect from the town famous for slickrock.
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    Kapusta, by AM I mean not a shuttle or lift assisted DH trail which is ridden in one direction or a XC trail with limited technical features.

    I'm thinking about the best designed trails and the most fun. Trails at Moab like Pipe Dream and some of the newer, more technical stuff at the Brand trails pushed the limits of trail design in my opinion. While these trails may not be at the top of my list for classic AM trails, the quality of trail design was amazing and really fun to ride.

    Honestly, I just wanted to hear everyone's top favorite AM trails so I can make a road trip wish list

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    Also check Lunch Loops in Grand Junction. Holy Cross and some of the others there are definitely not "XC with limited tech features".
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    Quote Originally Posted by KThaxton View Post
    With the new(-ish) Mag-7 system, you actually would hardly use the Gemini road at all, and it's fantastic!

    And with that, I guess I'll toss my favorite as being some of the trails in that system and others that aren't "offically" the Mag-7. I like Bull Run, Arths Corner, Great Escape and Long Canyon.
    I have not been out there in going on five years. I don't know anything about the routes you mentioned. How new are they? Do you have more intel on them? I am trying to head out there October this year. Would love to try those out.
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    +1 for Monarch Crest. My kids rode it for the first time when they were 10 and 12. Hardcore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post


    We all know there is a difference between riding a DH trail and an XC trail - "AM" is pointing to that difference.

    Judging from the responses so far, people seem to understand it - it all refers to the same type of riding no matter what its called - Enduro, Super D, or riding UP The Whole Enchilada...

    Mabye "All Mountain" is sloppy terminology... What should trails like this be called? Should they be called anything? Just "trails"?
    |end hijack|

    As for the T.W.E., its worth the wait to do the complete route which includes Burro pass. Its a killer alpine climb so you definitely still earn the turns, despite the shuttle. And the decent to Hazard: lush forest, running water/stream you have opportunity to jump, steeps, DIRT, roots... Not what you'd expect from the town famous for slickrock.
    Thanks for the TWE info. It's looking like this is more likely to happen in Sept or Oct. This plan for a trip out there (hatched under the influence of post-ride beers) is only a week old and the realities of getting the week off of work and families are beginning to settle in with the other guys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeCOLORADO View Post
    Wouldn't the Magnificent 7 be considered XC? I always assumed that AM was a trail that had a pretty fair technical element to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Says who? The people who first started using the term in relation to bikes. It was originally a term for a new type of bike being offered in the early 2000's. It still works well for this.
    I agree with everything you say except that last sentence here. For the same reason it is imprecise in describing trails it is imprecise in describing bicycles. "All mountain" is a meaningless marketing term and let's leave it at that. I'm not sure we have to call it something as most people mistake XC riders (racers, in particular) as dirt roadies but really it's all trail riding. If I were to have to define AM (even typing the abbreviation makes me grind my teeth) it would be technical terrain which is not suitable for DH or FR bikes due to at least a bit of climbing being involved.

    The most all mountainy trail I have had the pleasure to ride is another vote for the Whole Enchilada. I would say that the early dates for WE are hard to pin down and are tied closely to the winter and spring weather but if you want an ideal time then hit it in fall. When the aspens start turning it just steps up the whole visual aspect of going from pines to aspens to desert, it's something to see for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellurfingers View Post
    Wouldn't the Magnificent 7 be considered XC? I always assumed that AM was a trail that had a pretty fair technical element to it.
    Well everyone's definition of AM is different and therefore you might be correct. But I would propose that the second half of Portal is some seriously nasty tech riding and would qualify. I haven't rode the rest of Mag yet so I will reserve judgment on it, though I believe it depends on the trail segment as to how technical the riding ends up being. Overall, I would classify it as AM from the videos and descriptions I have seen of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeCOLORADO View Post
    In addition, look down a few maps here:
    Trail Mix
    They have the other trails in the area that are not "officially" part of the Mag 7, and they are wonderful. Also, since it's been 5 years, look at the new stuff at the Brand Trail system and Klondike area. Lots of diggin the last 2 years.

    For the record, IMO the Mag-7 area would qualify as AM and moderately techy since it's not exactly smooth flowy singletrack. Go to Youtube and search Mag-7 or Bull-Run. I have a Bull Run video up but I can't access YT at work.

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    Highline Trail, Sedona AZ

    The Forest Service has finally recognized and added the Highline Trail to their Sedona trail system. Highline has a little bit of everything... tech ups & downs, speed flow sections, unforgiving exposure, slickrock and incredible views.

    Highline Trail Sedona 2011

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    Here are two or three of my favorite AM trails.

    I love the Lunch Loops in Grand Junction, CO.
    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/47141445" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/47141445">20120801 Pucker Up GJ</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/denverbomb">Colossians TwoEight</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

    Kurt Gowdy, WY is great
    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/42628048" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/42628048">2012 Curt Gowdy Mountain Bike</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/mtbmikeco">Mike Harris</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

    Black Jack at Buffalo Creek, CO
    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/31008601" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/31008601">2011 Oct 23 - BlackJack (Buffalo Creek) Mountain Bike</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/mtbmikeco">Mike Harris</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/27078525" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/27078525">2011 0729 BOMB Buffalo Creek FF</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/denverbomb">Colossians TwoEight</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Regardless of how you define all mountain. I suggest you spend some time in Pisgah National Forest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    Mabye "All Mountain" is sloppy terminology... What should trails like this be called? Should they be called anything? Just "trails"?
    Well, yeah, they are just "trails" aren't they?

    And guys were (and still are) riding them on lesser technology and older bikes than what "All-Mountain" should normally describe.

    To me... if it is an up and down loop, then that's what it is. If it is rocky or chunky, then that is what it is. If there is a jump or two, then awesome. If it is steep/gradual/wide/narrow/techy/full of manmade obstacles/full of natural obstacles.... whatever then that's what it is. None of those things identifies a trail as "AM". It is not a speed or a difficulty level or a length.

    Perhaps the argument could be made that that an out-and-back trail where the turnaround is a Mt Dew vending machine is the only true AM trail... but that is another story.

    I would prefer to see more specific trail DESCRIPTIONS without using AM as an adjective. Start with IMBA guidelines... what is beginner, intermediate, etc is pretty clearly defined, length and elevation gain can be clearly defined... are obstacles mandatory or is there a bail-out line. These things say far more about a trail than "AM".

    If it is shuttles or lifts, then it is DH, whole different story and whole different rating system for beginner, intermediate, etc.

    Ehhh, take it for what it is worth. Just my opinion.
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

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    I've really got to get off my lazy Oregon a$$ someday and eat that Enchilada!

    By the way, for any of you hikers out there (I know, I know... this is the AM forum, but there must be some!), is the Whole Enchilada for biking only? I'd love to hike that thing with my brother, who is not into the biking thing, but is an avid hiker.

    Is it a shared use trail system? Looking at videos, it looks rather wide in some spots, like dirt road-wide. Hiking on roads sucks!

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    wilsonblur...who art thou? DenverBOMB. Step into your wayback machine, I used to be part of Colorado Springs BOMB. Does Mike Goertz still ride with DenverBOMB?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    I've really got to get off my lazy Oregon a$$ someday and eat that Enchilada!

    By the way, for any of you hikers out there (I know, I know... this is the AM forum, but there must be some!), is the Whole Enchilada for biking only? I'd love to hike that thing with my brother, who is not into the biking thing, but is an avid hiker.

    Is it a shared use trail system? Looking at videos, it looks rather wide in some spots, like dirt road-wide. Hiking on roads sucks!
    It's a trail on public lands, so there's no reason you can't hike it. But you should consider that this is one of the most popular trails in the country's most famous mountain bike destination. The volume of traffic is pretty high and a lot of it is pretty narrow singletrack. I'd even rate walking the Burro section as borderline dangerous- it's really steep (drops about 1,000 feet in a mile) and you may not have a lot of warning.

    There is a fair amount of road/doubletrack, but much less than half. The Porcupine Rim portion is doubletrack, and Kokopelli is an old road that's now rutted into singletrack.

  39. #39
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    AM trail definition....

    An AM trail is a trail which when ridden by a well rounded rider will yield the most fun when ridden on an AM style bike.

    You can replace AM with XC race, trail, or DH or FR. By now we all have a good idea of what a xc bike is, or a trail bike, or an AM bike,....

    In short, if the best bike for the trail I'm riding is an AM bike, then by definition it is an AM trail.

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    well, in that case...

    Quote Originally Posted by mealsonwheels View Post

    Honestly, I just wanted to hear everyone's top favorite AM trails so I can make a road trip wish list
    if your road trip includes B.C., by all means add the " Nelson" trails in Squamish & Comfortably Numb in Whistler to the wish list.
    breezy shade

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    I've really got to get off my lazy Oregon a$$ someday and eat that Enchilada!

    By the way, for any of you hikers out there (I know, I know... this is the AM forum, but there must be some!), is the Whole Enchilada for biking only? I'd love to hike that thing with my brother, who is not into the biking thing, but is an avid hiker.

    Is it a shared use trail system? Looking at videos, it looks rather wide in some spots, like dirt road-wide. Hiking on roads sucks!
    Yeah, as mentioned you can, but if you want to hike there are a lot of other places in Moab that you could hike that you cannot ride. I'd save TWE for the bike and see some other awesome stuff that you can't see on your bike.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeCOLORADO View Post
    wilsonblur...who art thou? DenverBOMB. Step into your wayback machine, I used to be part of Colorado Springs BOMB. Does Mike Goertz still ride with DenverBOMB?
    My name is Mark. I was in the Germany BOMB when I live there and moved to CO about 2.5yrs ago and joined the group here. If you look in the Black Jack video in the beginning you can see Goertz. I had breakfast with him this morning to work out our ride schedule for the year. Where do you live now and you are always welcome to join us on our trips. Going to GJ/Fruita, Crested Butte, and Moab this year. PM me if you want my personal info.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    It's a trail on public lands, so there's no reason you can't hike it. But you should consider that this is one of the most popular trails in the country's most famous mountain bike destination. The volume of traffic is pretty high and a lot of it is pretty narrow singletrack. I'd even rate walking the Burro section as borderline dangerous- it's really steep (drops about 1,000 feet in a mile) and you may not have a lot of warning.

    There is a fair amount of road/doubletrack, but much less than half. The Porcupine Rim portion is doubletrack, and Kokopelli is an old road that's now rutted into singletrack.
    Burro is great and can be dangerous. We rode it after a snow storm and the mud created a crazy slick surface. All you WA and OR guys will have no issue since you are used to riding stuff like that. I lived in Germany for a bit and got used to riding slippery stuff, all my Denver counter parts were a little at a loss for what to do with the mud. One member of our group got about 12 stitches above their right eye that day. If you crash there you are a long way from getting ported out. It took us a small miracle and about 2hrs to get our wounded rider out.
    Narrow is the path to life, few are those who find it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonblur View Post
    My name is Mark. I was in the Germany BOMB when I live there and moved to CO about 2.5yrs ago and joined the group here. If you look in the Black Jack video in the beginning you can see Goertz. I had breakfast with him this morning to work out our ride schedule for the year. Where do you live now and you are always welcome to join us on our trips. Going to GJ/Fruita, Crested Butte, and Moab this year. PM me if you want my personal info.
    I moved to Missouri. Sucks for riding.

    I remember you. You guys hit one of the BOMB Gatherings in Moab didn't you?

    I am Keith (not California Keith the founder of BOMB though). I was the one that started and organized the BOMB Gatherings in Moab. I have October this year penciled in for a Colorado/Moab trip.
    "I may be old and fat, but at least I'm slow." - Me


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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    I've really got to get off my lazy Oregon a$$ someday and eat that Enchilada!

    By the way, for any of you hikers out there (I know, I know... this is the AM forum, but there must be some!), is the Whole Enchilada for biking only? I'd love to hike that thing with my brother, who is not into the biking thing, but is an avid hiker.

    Is it a shared use trail system? Looking at videos, it looks rather wide in some spots, like dirt road-wide. Hiking on roads sucks!
    Like evasive said, it's public land and I'm almost certain it's multi use trail. If I were to hike there, I would absolutely start at Hazard and skip the Burro section. On the descent on Hazard you'll need to keep your ears sharp because the traffic moves quick and the scrub can hide lines of sight.

    There are some unbelievable hikes in the Moab area that don't involve dangerous bike traffic and I would check out those. Dark Angel in Arches gets you away from nearly all the park traffic, Fisher Towers is a sight to behold, and you can really get away from people down in the Needles district of Canyonlands. So you can hike bike trails (in general) but the trails that are known for hiking are probably much more fun for someone on foot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    Says who?
    The established terminology.

    On topic though - among local shorter trails I would nominate Oat Hill mine i Calistoga. I test all my new bikes on it. Long, very techy in few places places, climb, some nice trail there and back, and fast descend with good variety. Great views. I aspire to no-dab the climb, but fail.
    Last edited by Axe; 01-13-2013 at 01:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernVelo View Post
    Regardless of how you define all mountain. I suggest you spend some time in Pisgah National Forest.
    i have a free flight on southwest and have been thinking about going to the east coast to ride since I've never been there, and Pisgah is one of the destination places i'm thinking about. what is the best time of year to ride and are there company's/ bike shops that lead rides? thanks
    nothing witty here...

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    Mr. Toads wild ride, Lake Tahoe California

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2w4s View Post
    i have a free flight on southwest and have been thinking about going to the east coast to ride since I've never been there, and Pisgah is one of the destination places i'm thinking about. what is the best time of year to ride and are there company's/ bike shops that lead rides? thanks
    Mountain Biking in Western North Carolina - MTB WNC

  50. #50
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    Best technical AM trail I've ridden? National, Phx. I've ridden Holy Cross as well. Similar in some ways.

    Best overall ride I've done. TWE of course.

    Too wet/cold up to the pass in spring, to hot in Moab in summer. Best in Sept-ish/oct depending on if the snows have hit the La Sals yet or not. Last time we went we did it in late Aug. Was great up top, hot at bottom but we survived just fine being from Phx, but man, that natural spring water coming out of the rock by the river NEVER looked so good as it did on that day!!!

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck8154 View Post
    Mr. Toads wild ride, Lake Tahoe California
    Yes, but do it as a loop, climbing Armstrong.. No shuttling..

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeCOLORADO View Post
    I moved to Missouri. Sucks for riding.

    I remember you. You guys hit one of the BOMB Gatherings in Moab didn't you?

    I am Keith (not California Keith the founder of BOMB though). I was the one that started and organized the BOMB Gatherings in Moab. I have October this year penciled in for a Colorado/Moab trip.
    Yeah we came out in 2005. We are headed to Moab 18-22 Sept this year if it would fit with your schedule. We are also trying to do a quick trip to GJ/Fruita and a summer trip to Crested Butte. You are one of the founders. Thats great. PM me if you want more info.

    I love AM just to stay on topic. You need to get out to Curt Gowdy. Really fun place.
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    Man, that's a tough question!

    I'd have to say the Downieville Downhill, although the Culvert/Confluence trail in Auburn, and Guardian Trail here in Chico are also some of my favorites. Sunrise->Butcher->Divides is such a good run though, it's hard to beat the diversity of trail surfaces, which is something that I love.

    It's hard to beat the convenience of Guardian here in town, and it makes for a perfect end to a 16 mile loop. The beginning is pretty smooth, fast singletrack with great views and a few little hoppers. Around 6:00 into this video it starts to get a little bit more interesting and technical. Boulders, lava cap, bedrock, ruts, etc. It's rideable with some practice but really tough to ride it all top to bottom with no dabs.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sJ75GLFnLVA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Last edited by TwoHeadsBrewing; 01-14-2013 at 12:19 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck8154 View Post
    Mr. Toads wild ride, Lake Tahoe California
    I seriously need to make it up there this year for Toads and TRT among others. I made it up last year to Hole In the Ground, but that was it. What's a good loop that includes Mr Toads around the 20-25 mile range?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBrewing View Post
    I seriously need to make it up there this year for Toads and TRT among others. I made it up last year to Hole In the Ground, but that was it. What's a good loop that includes Mr Toads around the 20-25 mile range?
    Hole In The Ground may be my all time favorite trail to ride again and again. I lived right near it for a while, and I never got tired of it. Mr Toads and sections of the TRT are fantastic as well. God, there are so many amazing trails there, I miss it really bad in the summer.
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    I thought "all mountain" referred more to the style of bike like a 5 -6 inch travel bike built for some abuse, but I guess many of the trails mentioned are suited to that type of bike so...

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBrewing View Post
    I seriously need to make it up there this year for Toads and TRT among others. I made it up last year to Hole In the Ground, but that was it. What's a good loop that includes Mr Toads around the 20-25 mile range?
    I've done Toads 3 different ways. Point to point starting at Stagecoach lift in Heavenly following trt to toads. I think this was 27 miles. Up Armstrong Pass to TRT and Toads. And then one other time we came up the backside, I think on Willow Creek road, and then down Toads. My favorite times were actually the first few times when riding a hardtail.

    Nice video of guardian. I miss that trail as well as the rest of Bidwell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Yes, but do it as a loop, climbing Armstrong.. No shuttling..
    I thought the whole point of All Mountain is that you are not supposed to shuttle...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Yes, but do it as a loop, climbing Armstrong.. No shuttling..
    I thought the whole point of All Mountain is that you are not supposed to shuttle...

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    Quote Originally Posted by buck8154 View Post
    I thought the whole point of All Mountain is that you are not supposed to shuttle...
    Yep.

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    Dville so far. I will hopefully be riding National in PHX later this week hopefully for a comparison, but there is so much diversity at Dville it is ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Dville so far. I will hopefully be riding National in PHX later this week hopefully for a comparison, but there is so much diversity at Dville it is ridiculous.
    National is a great trail and way more challenging than downieville, but I think downieville is still more fun.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck8154 View Post
    I thought the whole point of All Mountain is that you are not supposed to shuttle...
    Well if that's the case, then I'm throwing out Downieville. Maybe some people like to ride up the dirt road to Packer Saddle, but every time I'm there I can't resist getting in two runs.

    I guess the Auburn and Chico loops are on my short list then:

    Chico: North Rim -> B Trail -> Park Road -> Ten Mile House -> Guardian
    Auburn: Clementine -> Connector -> FHDL -> Culvert -> Confluence
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck8154 View Post
    I thought the whole point of All Mountain is that you are not supposed to shuttle...
    Disagree. Just because it's not a loop doesn't make it non-AM.
    Don't you hate it when a sentence doesn't end the way you think it octopus?

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by zebrahum View Post
    Disagree. Just because it's not a loop doesn't make it non-AM.
    Does not have to be a loop. You can go out and back.

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    How are we defining "all mountain" as it pertains to trail classifications? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around which of my trails are AM.

    Most of the trails discussed here (Porcupine/TWE, Downieville, etc) are great on an "AM bike," because they have some drops and very rough terrain and are lots of fun on a bike that does well going downhill, but isn't too bad for the few climbs they contain.
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    Mt. Lemmon in Tucson. Rocky and gnarly, but you find the flow after riding it a couple of times.

    Damn i miss Tucson, there are 100s of miles of singletrack that would classify as AM, rocky steep and all around expert terrain up and down, not to mention the short drive to great riding in Phoenix, Prescott, Sedona, and Flagstaff, and the relative lack of trail traffic. I used to be able to ride to TMP/Robles from my house Now I'm just getting nastalgic, too bad the job market there sucks.

    Other notable trails:
    Hangover/High on the Hog in Sedona
    Elden area in Flaggstaff
    South Mountain in Phoenix
    Whole Enchilada in Moab
    Noble Canyon outside of San Diego
    Moore Fun and Horsethief in Fruita
    Mt. Lion in Golden

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    Alpine trail. Oakridge, OR

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    Did atc last year at the August mbo and it was truly epic. Follwed it up with a ride back to camp and a dh run on larison with a demo intense uzzi! Good times.

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