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  1. #1
    dft
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    best all mountain bike that is somewhat slack in the HA

    i wanted to get peoples thoughts about an all mountian bike that still is fairly slack so its good and comfortable riding the steeps. i have a heavy freeride bike (stinky, 40 pounder) and looking for a 30-33 lb bike for long climbs(5000 feet), but that is still kinda slack so it can handle the steeps. (ideal is just use an adjustable fork, mash down for long climbs). also a non-interupted seat tube is a must.

    i'm liking the giant reign with 150-160mm fork so HA would be around 67 or so. what other bikes might fit this bill.
    thanks
    Last edited by dft; 10-17-2008 at 11:25 AM.

  2. #2
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    I'd take a serious look at the upcoming 2009 GT Sanction. Preferably the 1.0 model.
    Look, whatever happens, don't fight the mountain.

  3. #3
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  4. #4
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    Scott Ransom but they tis be pricy, 2nd the GT Sanction
    Keep on Ridin

  5. #5
    how heavy are you ??
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    5Spot with a 160 MM fork that will about 67.5 at the steepest and DURABLE to boot! I promise you that you won't be disappointed! And from what I hear they are on sale to boot! Pull the trigger. :P
    Scottay
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  6. #6
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    konas are slack as hell. my girlfriends 100mm xc kikapu is 68.5. i think the coiler/airs are around 66.

  7. #7
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    Turner RFX and Specialized SX Trail are both capable of big hits and still decently light with the right builds.

  8. #8
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    Canfield One


    Mine as pictures is at 31.5 lbs with pedals...

  9. #9
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    DFT I too had a 40lb stinky as my only bike, recently I picked up this

    New AM ride

    Its a great bike. Climbs well, bombs the downs with ease and is about 33 lbs as my build. Its improved my trail riding and the fun factor.

  10. #10
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    My Terremoto has 67.5* HA.

  11. #11
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    Bra, we might as well be brothers, I'm coming from the DH side of things too (my reason for a less extreme aspect being that I smacked my head on a rock) I've done a SH*TLOAD of research and like the first poster stated your best bet is the sanction, Its got a 66 degree HA which is, Im sure, enough to suit your fancy. second the bike, even the 1.0 with all the new "Heavy" Saint Sh*t on there is still only gonna be like 34-35 lbs The bike is built solid, GT was actually thinking about puting the Sanction in a FR category on thier website for a while but decided (because of only 6" in the rear) not too. I work at a LBS and we deal with Cannondale, Giant, and GT primarily, and the rep. has told us they are really trying to get back to the top of the industry, these bikes primarily the sanction and the new Fury he said were quite possibly two of the best bikes they have put on the market in decades. and as a last "selling point" if you will the bike looks pretty sick, with the top tube looking that bold it's like one of the new mustangs, just without the whole 400 horse power thing. And with the "stack of dimes" welds clearly shown at the top tube, they didn't just forget to sand them down, no they did this on purpose to let the consumer know that even though it may not be built in the U.S. of A (<--- over rated btw, and yes I'm a citizen) it's still a quality product, just as our rep has told us.
    "This sticker is dangerous and inconvienent, but I do love Fig Newtons"

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickspeed16
    I've done a SH*TLOAD of research and like the first poster stated your best bet is the sanction, Its got a 66 degree HA ....I work at a LBS and we deal with Cannondale, Giant,
    At least he burried the disclaimer in there!

  13. #13
    dft
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyBidnezz
    Turner RFX and Specialized SX Trail are both capable of big hits and still decently light with the right builds.
    sorry but tuners are anything but slack (dave turner has a more xc background), RFX= too heavy for the bike i'm looking at. (my friend uses his rfx as a burly bike at about 39 pounds)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dft
    sorry but tuners are anything but slack (dave turner has a more xc background), RFX= too heavy for the bike i'm looking at. (my friend uses his rfx as a burly bike at about 39 pounds)
    RFX is a sweet bike and I have seen several on here built reasonably light at 31lbs (and several in the 20s). I don't ride one, but 3 in my group do...trust me, they handle the steeps just fine.

  15. #15
    dft
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickspeed16
    Bra, we might as well be brothers, I'm coming from the DH side of things too (my reason for a less extreme aspect being that I smacked my head on a rock) I've done a SH*TLOAD of research and like the first poster stated your best bet is the sanction, Its got a 66 degree HA which is, Im sure, enough to suit your fancy. second the bike, even the 1.0 with all the new "Heavy" Saint Sh*t on there is still only gonna be like 34-35 lbs The bike is built solid, GT was actually thinking about puting the Sanction in a FR category on thier website for a while but decided (because of only 6" in the rear) not too. I work at a LBS and we deal with Cannondale, Giant, and GT primarily, and the rep. has told us they are really trying to get back to the top of the industry, these bikes primarily the sanction and the new Fury he said were quite possibly two of the best bikes they have put on the market in decades. and as a last "selling point" if you will the bike looks pretty sick, with the top tube looking that bold it's like one of the new mustangs, just without the whole 400 horse power thing. And with the "stack of dimes" welds clearly shown at the top tube, they didn't just forget to sand them down, no they did this on purpose to let the consumer know that even though it may not be built in the U.S. of A (<--- over rated btw, and yes I'm a citizen) it's still a quality product, just as our rep has told us.

    yep, the gt sanction looks ideal. actually the 2.0 model seems fine being more than a 1000 less. (only the fork is significantly worse than the 1.0 model). but yea, what's with the saint stuff, seems overkill for this bike. (the 2.0 model is actually more my liking in using SLX stuff for cranks, etc). looks like a prime candidate though! note i don't need this bike for 30 foot gaps and 10 foot drops (stinky does that), but for long rides (5000 foot climbs) that have some steeps in them.

  16. #16
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    Look at the Marin Wolf Ridge.

  17. #17
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    Reign X HA is 67.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dft
    sorry but tuners are anything but slack (dave turner has a more xc background), RFX= too heavy for the bike i'm looking at. (my friend uses his rfx as a burly bike at about 39 pounds)
    Please don't buy a Turner, you will only ruin the bike by putting out-dated, heavy parts on it & make the brand look bad.

    BTW, my crappy, 32lb RFX feels pretty damn good on even the steepest of trails, jumps & drops

    You should look hard at the Reign & Specy Trail SX or Enduro models, really sweet bikes. My buddy & I just did a wicked 26 mile, 2500ft climb to a 5000 descent yesterday, he was on a 2008 Enduro SL, prety nice bike. I think his weighed 32lbs with 2.35 rear & 2.5 from Maxxis High Rollers.

  19. #19
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    Have you tried riding a Foes?

    Can't go wrong with the FXR. Well built at about 30 pounds.
    I see you're drinking one percent. Is that because you think you're fat?

  20. #20
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    That Canfield looks bloddy hell sexy.
    I myself am looking for pretty much what you are, and im prolly gonna end up with an SX trail or a Reign X
    Lean back, Hit both brakes, And ask yourself, Do you feel lucky today?

  21. #21
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    have you taken a look at the new Uzzi VP? production is expected to start feb 09.. this proto is 34.5lb and the weight is supposed to go down a tad more.. 6.75 or 7.25" travel, 66* HA with 180mm fork with 14.2"bb
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  22. #22
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    Trek Remedy - 67 deg. HA

  23. #23
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    BMC Supertrail has 67 degree HA and 73 degree SA. It also builds to high 20's to low 30's weight. There should be enough squish as it's got 160mm at the back which should be perfectly paired to a Fox 36 or Zoke 55
    DH:Mountain Cycle Shockwave 9.5 w/ 888R
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  24. #24
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    Coiler

    Build up Coiler. You could get a frame from Wheelworld upgrade the shock and still be under 1000$. they can be built up reasonably light and have a way slack HA. Put on a Talas and you are in bidness.
    pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

  25. #25
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    I'll put in another vote for the Speshy Enduro. I just bought an 08 and it's awesome for flowy downhill trails, and it can handle decent sized drops and jumps. I was trying to decide for ages between the Enduro and Reign X, it was a tough call but the biggest benefit I've found though is because it's fairly light (around 31-32 pounds) you can ride for longer before getting tired, which means more fun! The E150 fork is super stiff in steep terrain, and it's got travel adjust for steep climbing.

  26. #26
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    It's going to be difficult to find a beefier light weight do it all bike then the Specialized SL Enduro. It's is a great climber, fast on the flats, rails the corners, takes drops like a 6" coil, and not so bad on the downhill. Takes a little time to setup with all the adjustment possibilities, but once dialed it a great riding air suspension. Gotta love the e150!

    Not so much in love with the rear end of the Enduro tho, the shock will not lock out and like any single pivot the bike will bob when climbing unless you crank the rebound down to the stop. There is just not enough compression control, which forces you to crank the rebound down to the stop or lose a lot of climbing leverage. When you do that the shock will pack down which results in the front end pointing @ the sky... (not a good thing when climbing)

    Other then the rear shock not having a lockout position my 2008 SL rocks!

  27. #27
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    I have no idea but I'll try and suggest something. How about the Ironhorse 6 point 4 or 6 point 6???

  28. #28
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by dft
    sorry but tuners are anything but slack (dave turner has a more xc background), RFX= too heavy for the bike i'm looking at.
    Your homework score = F

    try some facts:
    • '08 RFX= ~7lbs - one of the lightest frames mentioned in this thread. Easily built in the low 30lb range with burly parts.
    • Turners can be as slack as you like depending on your build, shock & rocker choice.
    • Turner has been building DH race bikes raced at the world cup level for over 10 years.


    feel free to not buy one though - you're choice!

    /FM- Lovin' my light RFX

  29. #29
    dft
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    to all respect for the speshy bikes, but having non-interupted seat tube is a must, so no specialized

  30. #30
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    look at this bike..5.5" travel HA at 68.5 w/Pike. steeper with a 6" fork. 32lbs and a great company to deal with.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dft
    to all respect for the speshy bikes, but having non-interupted seat tube is a must, so no specialized
    why? with as many quick drop seatposts as there are out there, i dont think this is as important as it used to be.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmhills
    why? with as many quick drop seatposts as there are out there, i dont think this is as important as it used to be.
    Agreed, however I'm running the stock post on my Enduro. The newer model Enduro's have a much longer seat tube than the old design. I'm 6'3" and I've chopped my post down to run it lower for downhilling, but I've still got enough post to get full leg extension on XC rides.

  33. #33
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    Ibis Mojo with 160mm fork and 30% rear sag gets very near a 67 degree head angle. Easily built to 30 lbs with coil suspension or under 28 with Talas and air shock with 2.4 or 2.5 tires. Well proven durability, performance, and top customer service.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyag1
    It's going to be difficult to find a beefier light weight do it all bike then the Specialized SL Enduro.

    ... like any single pivot
    Ummm, the Enduro is not a single pivot. It's a four Bar with a Horst Link.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    Ibis Mojo with 160mm fork and 30% rear sag gets very near a 67 degree head angle. Easily built to 30 lbs with coil suspension or under 28 with Talas and air shock with 2.4 or 2.5 tires. Well proven durability, performance, and top customer service.

    Derby - Why on earth would you quote a sagged HA?
    It has a 69* HA. I don't know of any mfgs that go so far as to do try and pinpoint a sagged HA, mainly because the amount of sag fore/aft is completely contingent upon many variables.

    For an individual shopping, the mfg's un-sagged measurements create a great base for comparison.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmhills
    why? with as many quick drop seatposts as there are out there, i dont think this is as important as it used to be.
    Without a telescoping seatpost (which are a major PITA) it's unlikely you'd be able to get a lot of adjustment with an interrupted seat tube design. I know dft, like me, wants at least 7" of adjustment. If you figure maybe around 4" minimum insertion plus the 7" of adjustment, you'd end up with needing 11" of unobstructed depth. That's more depth than you'll find available in the majority of interrupted designs.

  37. #37
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    coilair at 65.7 i believe

    i have a 2007 coilair (actually for sale) that i believe is at 65.7 degrees, so definitely slack.

    i am now on a yeti 575 that is slightly steeper w/ a lyrik coil. actually, i rode my 2004 haro werx xls the other day and it scared the sch!t out of me....way to stretched out and steep. it is fast as hell but not the kind of bike i like to ride these days.

  38. #38
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    +1 for Banshee Rune. 150mm of rear travel with stable platform, may be not so plush on small bumps, but pedals really effectively, no adjustable fork needed and slack 67 degree head angle included. Also, you can put fork with more travel (up to 7 inch) and fill up angle more.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thermo2
    I have no idea but I'll try and suggest something. How about the Ironhorse 6 point 4 or 6 point 6???
    Yup, surprised no one had mentioned them when it's very similar to an RFX at HALF the cost!!! Great bike if you ask me.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  40. #40
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    i have a 2007 coilair (actually for sale) that i believe is at 65.7 degrees, so definitely slack.

    i am now on a yeti 575 that is slightly steeper w/ a lyrik coil.
    I too have a ('08) 575 with a Lyrik. I believe the HA is right at 67 degrees.

  41. #41
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    i don't think the steepness of the head angle matters as much as where the rider's center of gravity is on the bike. I went from a frame with a 67 degree hta to a 69 degree hta, but .75" shorter stays and a 1/4" lower BB, and it's a bit more stable in the steeps. It's easier to jump, climb standing, steer, do tech climbs, and wheelie too. All i've lost is a little high speed stability that i don't really miss.
    I like cheap stuff that works great and is very sturdy.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero
    Derby - Why on earth would you quote a sagged HA?
    It has a 69* HA. I don't know of any mfgs that go so far as to do try and pinpoint a sagged HA, mainly because the amount of sag fore/aft is completely contingent upon many variables.

    For an individual shopping, the mfg's un-sagged measurements create a great base for comparison.
    Sorry. With equal sag amount (or zero sag) and equal sized tires the Mojo with Lyric or Fox32 set with 160mm travel is 68 degrees.

    The Mojo head angle is 67.5 degrees using a 650b front wheel and 160mm travel fork, and the longer steering trail handles like 67 degrees, but rolls and hits bumps and grips better than a 26 inch wheel with a 67 degree head angle and the same fork.

    69 degrees is with a 140mm fork with same size tires.

  43. #43
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    Nicolai Helius AM

    Have you considered the Nicolai Helius AM?
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    Sorry. With equal sag amount (or zero sag) and equal sized tires the Mojo with Lyric or Fox32 set with 160mm travel is 68 degrees.

    The Mojo head angle is 67.5 degrees using a 650b front wheel and 160mm travel fork, and the longer steering trail handles like 67 degrees, but rolls and hits bumps and grips better than a 26 inch wheel with a 67 degree head angle and the same fork.

    69 degrees is with a 140mm fork with same size tires.
    Ibis mojo isn't even close to what the poster is asking about. It's also pretty short-coupled for a bike of that type (wheelbase, etc). I'd rather ride a lot of the other bikes mentioned in this thread at speed. The mojo may be an "all-mountain" bike, but it's not the type of bike being discussed in this thread.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dft
    i wanted to get peoples thoughts about an all mountian bike that still is fairly slack so its good and comfortable riding the steeps. i have a heavy freeride bike (stinky, 40 pounder) and looking for a 30-33 lb bike for long climbs(5000 feet), but that is still kinda slack so it can handle the steeps. (ideal is just use an adjustable fork, mash down for long climbs). also a non-interupted seat tube is a must.

    i'm liking the giant reign with 150-160mm fork so HA would be around 67 or so. what other bikes might fit this bill.
    thanks
    Maybe you didnít read the whole OP.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Ibis mojo isn't even close to what the poster is asking about. It's also pretty short-coupled for a bike of that type (wheelbase, etc). I'd rather ride a lot of the other bikes mentioned in this thread at speed. The mojo may be an "all-mountain" bike, but it's not the type of bike being discussed in this thread.
    Unless the guy is over 6í6Ē and needs a XXL size Mojo that doesnít exist, in what way does the Mojo with adjustable travel 160 fork not qualify? Let alone be ďnot even closeĒ?

    Iíve done those types of rides for decades and havenít seen a better bike for them than the Mojo, with my 160mm adjustable travel fork, AMP remote seat drop (un-interrupted seat tube). Using coil suspension and no extra-lightweight components my bike is 31 lbs, and just under 68/72 frame angles. Iím using 650b wheels for better rough trail pedal clearance, easier rolling, better traction, and smoother bump hits. Stay with a 26 inch rear wheel if you want more tire clearance, low BB height, a slightly lower climbing gear, and slacker 67/71 frame angles. Reduce rear sag a little to get in the effective 66 degree range while riding. It fit's 2.4 and some 2.5 by 26 inch tires. Go a frame size up with shorter stem if you like slower long wheelbase handling.

    I'm not sponsored in any way; I pay full retail with very hard earned dollars. I keep demoing new bikes and when there is a better AM bike Iíll buy it.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    Mojo
    i wanted to get peoples thoughts about an all mountian bike that still is fairly slack so its good and comfortable riding the steeps. i have a heavy freeride bike (stinky, 40 pounder) and looking for a 30-33 lb bike for long climbs(5000 feet), but that is still kinda slack so it can handle the steeps. (ideal is just use an adjustable fork, mash down for long climbs). also a non-interupted seat tube is a must.
    Maybe, but a lot of other bikes remain slacker without jacking up the BB too much.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by dft
    sorry but tuners are anything but slack (dave turner has a more xc background), RFX= too heavy for the bike i'm looking at. (my friend uses his rfx as a burly bike at about 39 pounds)
    Heh, I'm not sure you really know anything about these bikes. Dave Turner made the Turner Afterburner many years ago. Not only that, but the RFX frameset weighs about 7lbs with air shock, lb more with coil, it's not heavy. A 39lb RFX would have to have saint cranks, a monster T, lead pedals, 3.0 tires, etc...Maybe you're talking about the "old" RFX frame, which was produced ~2002, they stopped making it, then reintroduced the 6-pack (lighter) and then the RFX (lighter yet) in 2007.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Maybe, but a lot of other bikes remain slacker without jacking up the BB too much.
    No doubt!

    The Mojo is intended to be more on the trail side of all mtn and it's an excellent bike for it's intended purpose. Light, steep HA bikes don't do well for what the OP is asking. Sure you can thro a 160mm fork on a Mojo but COME ON! You can also throw a 180mm Totem on ANY of the other bikes listed in this thread (that actually COME with a 160mm fork) and come in under 66 deg HA! Mojo owners are a pretty closed minded group from what I've seen; their bike is the best and nothing else comes close in their minds. Personally I wouldn't be caught dead on a Mojo; I've been a supplier to the carbon fiber industry far too long to buy into their BS!

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Last edited by Gman086; 10-27-2008 at 11:20 AM.
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  49. #49
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    2009 Coilair...

    Hands down, best all mountain bike available. XC to bike park. Bikes insane.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho
    Canfield One


    Mine as pictures is at 31.5 lbs with pedals...

    nice cad drawing....yours? Looks accurate
    i love the smell of tri-flow in the morning......

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