Sure, and nothing in the first post says that the shop tried to sell it as one.
Originally Posted by William42
Everybody seems to want more travel too. Why not a 6 inch road bike?
Sales scuum have to eat too.
Hey if you feel fine about the weight of your bike your not going to be buying that $2500 tiawanese frame he needs off the floor, he was just trying to put that "a new bike will make me a faster, happier and cooler rider" thought in your head so he can get a sale down the road. I have a few very nice bikes and even though the local shops motto is "love the bike you ride" there allways trying to tell me if I test a Ironhorse or DW link Turner I'll sell both of my horst link turners at a loss to get one. But... I love the bikes I ride.
There is a broad definition of AM but most people consider it to mean burlier bikes capable of descending well and jumping while climbing as well as an XC bike. My AM bike is a Yeti 575 weighing 26.5 with a 6" fork. When I replace the frame with a Mojo SL it will weigh 25.5. My Bullit with a less expensive build weighs 34 and is plenty burly enough to call Freeride.
A strong, light build costs a lot and there's nothing wrong with not spending all your cash on bikes and having a slightly heavier bike. However, don't underestimate what a lot of cash and companies like Ibis, DT, and NoTubes can do.
IME many bikes shop people are just tools. I would venture to guess that most everyone on this forum is far more knowledgeable about mtb'ing and mountain bikes than most of them. Why? Because those of us who regularly post here are passionate about the sport and we obsessively research/ride/buy/sell/build mountain bikes of all types. Most bike sales people do not, they just regurgitate what they think they know, and they sell to the masses mostly. Which means they promote the most likely selling points (like weight and suspension design) because 95% of the people they talk to about it have no idea if they are wrong or right.
My 575 is 30-31lbs with a 6 inch fork. I wish it were a bit more heavy duty (yes, heavier).
There are some good bike shop's in my area (Rage, Cactus for example) and I'd bet they'd scoff at pushing a 23lb fs bike on a rider who is not an xc racer type. But then again, they have a more specific clientele (sp?). It's not like at Performance where people come in basically clueless as to what they want/need and are looking for guidance.
squish is good
Word, that describes it to a tee. There is the occasional bike shop tech who really knows his/her stuff though so I have to give them a shout out. Couldn't have worded it better though.
Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
wow.. blown out of proportion. maybe the guy was just making conversation, or trying to make a sale.. they do have a business to run after all.
When I go to the bike shop, the guys often point out something new they just got in. Nothing wrong with that. They don't push it, but obviously it is a good thing for them if it sometimes leads to a sale.
... hmmm, actually that Specialized Langster would make sense when the snow melts ...
low speed, high drag
Starting with the cost. I know it's a beautiful bike, and I'm aware many of posters here are quite well off. But to me, spending more than $3,000 on a bicycle, one for very specific conditions notheless is rediculous. Not to mention most guys then have to swap part after part on a weekly basis for weight, looks, etc...Don't mean to sound bitter, just my 2 cents...
Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
Fortes Fortuna Iuvat
All that matters is that you like your bike, you're the one that is going to spend time with it!
Maverick Durance Ano-DUC32/C KING/XTR
Mav ML8 Ano-DUC32/X0
09 Spec. Demo-Totem-Ti DHX
Norco Team DH
i test rode the yeti575, ibis mojo and the intense tracer. they were all great bikes, but to me the tracer was a bit heavy, probably around 31 or 32 lbs, so climbing up these steep slopes
was a chore.
the yeti575 and ibis mojo climbed great, i was told they weighed about 26-27lbs with the demo setup.
ibis felt much lighter and easier to climb with, but yeti seemed like it was a bit more stable or heavier on the downhill stuff. anyway it was definitely different from the mojo.
anyway the tracer and 575 felt less responsive, perhaps due to the weight or setup
if i get an AM bike with 6inches of travel i will probably go with the ibis mojo or yeti 575, but i would demo them all again before i plunked down the $4K or so
i have a 2008 intense spider and right now it is fine for me even though it only has
4in of travel and has the SRAM entry level pkg. it weighs in at 26lbs and suits my riding style just fine.
squish is good
I love how 31 or 32 lbs is heavy all of a sudden. I guess I've been pedaling a boat anchor up hill all these years...
Originally Posted by zaskar1
It was a great weight 2 years ago, but with factory builds like the Remedy coming out under 30 lbs, and 5lb FS frames, it all is relative.
Originally Posted by Clutchman83
My "FR/AM" bike is a solid 35lbs, and my "AM" bike is ~34, and my HT will probably be ~30. Ive long since given up making every climb, every time for a reliable, solid build that works.
Some people havent/wont
Were beginning to digress from the original topic. There was obviously an implied "this bike weighs 10 lbs less then yours does and falls into the same class, your bike sucks and this one doesn't." I work at a bike shop. I know when guys are doing that. Taking your business elsewhere always works, but another thing that works pretty damn well I find is to ask to talk to somebody else. Theres nothing thats quite as much of a blow to the ego as a customer asking to talk to somebody else. Who knows, it might be the case that there might be a tech that you actually like working there (whether you've met them or not). If you find that person, go to that shop, but make it clear you only want to talk to them and have them do the work on your bike.
if you want to spend the bucks, the XTR Yeti 575 carbon rear and the XTR Mojo SL
weight in at 24lbs.
both are considered AM with 6inches of frt/rear travel!
Either one at 24 pounds is a 6" XC bike, not a 6" AM bike.
Originally Posted by zaskar1
Regardless of the frame, if you dress it up like an xc bike, then that is how much abuse it will take.
I don't want this to come across wrong, but I would love to see your builds! Part of me really wishes I could get away with builds that light... and both my bikes have had a considerable amount of money put (smartly) into them.
Originally Posted by Lelandjt
There are a lot of strong, light, pricy parts if you search them out,
Mojo SL is very light for a 5.5" frame that is known to be durable and Lopes makes it look jumpable.
NoTubes 355, Arch, and Flow rims are lighter and stronger than comparable Mavics.
DT EXC 150 and Maveric DUC (after internal tuning) are very light, stiff, and have a good feel.
American Classic hubs are XC weight but feel stiff enough and are holding up fine to my abuse.
The list goes on but provide any part on your bike as an example and a lighter, sufficiently strong (and usually more expensive) alternative can be found with the help of your fellow forum users. Look at the ultalight DH builds that are being done now. My V10 gets abused every other day all summer and weights 37.5 lb.
Ahhhh, now you are making me want to see your bikes even more! They sound sweet!
Originally Posted by Lelandjt
Haha, yeah, I've actually done a lot of research and if I had the money kicking around, I would definitely like to try some of that stuff. Lack of knowledge isn't holding me back, and I'm guilty of making many excel spreadsheets and also weighing parts...
To be honest though, I'm a hack, I ride hard, I screw up, and so I really don't know how long some of the things I'd like to try would last. My "DH" bike is also my freeride bike, so I'm still running 2 rings and a shiftable guide on that, but I would also still consider it AM in many respects. As for freeride, I'm guessing that your Bullit won't see as rough riding as my Fr/Dh bike will... sounds like I need another fully! Having a larger stable definitely does open doors for that kind of thing though, where I don't really have that luxury at the moment. I'm pretty happy with the reliability of my bikes though, save for my Boxxer, so perhaps a bit of extra weight does help me in that department. One more question, if you don't mind me asking, whereabouts do you ride? Or rather, what kind of terrain do you tend to ride? I imagine that will also play a large part in things.
..and really, 37.5 pounds for your V-10? You should be ashamed! Shouldn't you have it at least down to 36?
thoe demo bikes, the ibis mojo (26), yeti 575 carbon rear(26), intense tracer (31), were all medium framesthey had xt components, i have no idea what else they had on them, but i was told by the reps that was their weight.
but unless the bike is 3-4 lbs heavier, you probably wont notice anything, as i didnt like
how the tracer climbed, as i did notice the 5lbs or so difference
i think how it fits your riding style, how it climbs, how it descends, the repsonsiveness
cutting corners, the steering geometry, might make more of a difference.
for my intense spider xvp, (26.5lbs or so, next time i have it in the shop i will weigh it)
Intense Spider XVP with selected components from SRAM X.O package
Front Suspension Fork:
Rock Shox Reba Team 26 100mm Fork w/PushLoc
Avid Elixir R Disc Brakeset 160mm Rear Rotor 160mm Front Rotor
SRAM PG-990 Cassette 11/34
SRAM PC-991 Chain
TruVativ Stylo 3.3 MTB Crankset 175mm
Shimano XT Front Derailleur - Top Swing FD-M770 *OEM 28.6/31.8/34.9
Intense ODI Lock-On logo, Black
TruVativ Holzfeller Riser Bar 31.8 50mm
Cane Creek Integrated Headset 42.0mm
Shimano PD-M545 Pedals
SRAM X.0 Rear Derailleur Long
Fox Float RP23
Intense Sacred Saddle
Ritchey WCS Seatpost 400mm 31.6mm
SRAM X.O Trigger Shifters
Water Bottle Cages:
Mavic CrossTrail Disc 6 Bolt
Tires - Front:
Hutchinson Python UST NG Light Tire Black
Tires - Rear:
Hutchinson Python UST NG Light Tire Black
More like annoying mis-communication.
Originally Posted by Jaybo
99% of bike riders base performance on weight, perhaps the mechanic thought he was speaking to one of them. He didn't know you know more than the average rider.
I would love to see a 22# Ibis. It would have to pull all the WW tricks, which would be cool to see. Riding a bike like that isn't my bag, but I am appreciative of other schools of riding.
BTW, a quick Google search and here is a 19.8# Ibis. Put some real tires on, and you get 22#.
I built my 575 at 23lbs something, without the pedals but found it too light weight even on flinty XC trails. So I beefed up the tyres and enjoy rising much more as I hardly get punctures even though he bike is a whole 1lb heavier.
I could get away with less travel easily but like the 575 geometry becasuse it feels so stable going downhill. One thing I would say is that riding a FS bike enables you to use lighter components as the suspension helps them out as well as the spine on rocky descents.
But if you enjoy riding the bike and it gives you confidence why bother with the scales?
The minute you pay out your hard earned cash a new lighter frame will surely be along!
Just enjoy the journey.
Older & Faster...downhill
Bike weight that is.
Originally Posted by Mr.P
To answer "Hack On Wheels":
I hear the sarcasm but yes there are some DH rides under 37 lbs but usually with lightish 2.5" tires and some questionable parts. On all my bikes I use some pretty fancy and light parts but larger, burlier than normal tires (2.7 Minions on V10, 2.35 Small Block Eights on my XC/AM Yeti 575) and nothing that hasn't held up for at least 2 seasons.
You're right that owning a reasonably light DH bike results in you're FR bike seeing less abuse. I have an ATA fork on the V10 and pull it out for a lot of rides now like Fish Creek Falls.
I live in Breckenridge, CO and ride pretty rough terrain but smoothly and almost never crash. I'm a semi-retired, semi-pro and know my limits pretty well. Have fun with your future builds and revel when you find a part that drops weight and doesn't hurt performance (got my fingers crossed for the new Maveric DUC36).
P.S. Oh yeah, let your girlfriend move in to pay half the bills but DON'T HAVE A KID!!
RE: That Ibis on the weightweenies site.
The fork, wheels, tires, and crank look like they'd prevent the frame from being ridden to its full potential, ie more aggresively on steeper, gnarlier terrain than could be done on a 3-4" travel frame that would be 1/3-1/2 pound lighter. I love the Mojo SL and am gonna buy one but if your riding permits such XC racy parts doesn't it permit an XC race frame as opposed to an AM (albiet the lightest, raciest of the breed)?