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Thread: AM Hardails

  1. #1
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    AM Hardails

    I am thinking about turning my 04 P2 into a AM hardtail. Currently it is set up for dirt jumping (it weights about 36 lbs) but I am finding myself at the DJ's less and less lately.
    So has anyone used a P-series frame (or something similar for AM riding) and if so how did you like it? What parts/forks did you run, etc. And what's your overall impression of ripping it up on a HT?
    The Revolution will not be motorized...especially at $5 per gallon.

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    MK_
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    Quote Originally Posted by KONA_in_SB
    I am thinking about turning my 04 P2 into a AM hardtail. Currently it is set up for dirt jumping (it weights about 36 lbs) but I am finding myself at the DJ's less and less lately.
    So has anyone used a P-series frame (or something similar for AM riding) and if so how did you like it? What parts/forks did you run, etc. And what's your overall impression of ripping it up on a HT?
    It depends on how tall you are, really. I have a firend, about 5'9" who uses his P to trail ride once in a while. His is setup for DJing, so climbing is a biotch. 36 single chainring with an XT cassette. Tech stuff, he walks pretty much all of. Smooth sections he kinda singlespeeds. On the way down, though, you can't keep him in sight. That bike descends great. With good body english, you can pin the trail like crazy.

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  3. #3
    conjoinicorned
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    i can't see my HT (balfa minuteman) ever getting gears, but i absolutely love it on the trails. it certainly isn't as comfortable as the FS on long days though...
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  4. #4
    JMH
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    Kona Cowan

    I have a Kona Cowan set up as a 1x9 with a PIKE. It is a very capable AM bike, but without a small ring, and with a short stem and platform pedals it's not as efficient as my XC bike. I can barely get the saddle high enough to mimic my XC position, but I only do this for sustained climbing. Otherwise it's lower. And it descends really well.

    Chuky has the same bike pretty much, except with clipless pedals and a small (22t) ring as well as a 32. Hers is way more capable in the climbing department.

    The PIKE with 95-140mm travel is really nice on the HT. I fiddle with it depending on what kind of terrain I am on. It's nice to have a quick singletrack machine at 100mm, or crank it to 140mm for rocky downhills.

    So yeah, short answer: If you can get the saddle high enough on your P2 for comfortable climbing, throw a PIKE on there and go ride.

    JMH

    Quote Originally Posted by KONA_in_SB
    I am thinking about turning my 04 P2 into a AM hardtail. Currently it is set up for dirt jumping (it weights about 36 lbs) but I am finding myself at the DJ's less and less lately.
    So has anyone used a P-series frame (or something similar for AM riding) and if so how did you like it? What parts/forks did you run, etc. And what's your overall impression of ripping it up on a HT?

  5. #5
    ballbuster
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    Heh...

    Quote Originally Posted by KONA_in_SB
    I am thinking about turning my 04 P2 into a AM hardtail. Currently it is set up for dirt jumping (it weights about 36 lbs) but I am finding myself at the DJ's less and less lately.
    So has anyone used a P-series frame (or something similar for AM riding) and if so how did you like it? What parts/forks did you run, etc. And what's your overall impression of ripping it up on a HT?
    I'm feeling pretty AM. I just put an 800 gram tire on my stupid light 605 gram 24 spoke front wheel. I'm getting my disc brakes worked on, so my trailbike has been in pieces for the last two weeks. I'm taking the 23 lb race bike where it should not go, and hoping I don't break it.

  6. #6
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    Good to hear your replies. I believe I can get the seat high enough for climbing. I will be running 36 front, 8-speed in the back though, that will probably slow me down in the climbs but oh well. Right now it has a heavy-@ss Dirt Jumper 1 on the front (super strong and super heavy) that feels like crap on the trails. I have raced DH with this bike and it does go down pretty damn well, that is the main reason I want to make it into an AM bike. I was thinking a Pike on the front would be the best choice, I have one on my Coiler and really like it. After changing the fork out I think I would need some lighter wheels and tires. I have Azonic Outlaws wheels with Nokian NBX 2.5's on right now, there really nice on not so smooth landings but feel real sluggish on climbs.
    The Revolution will not be motorized...especially at $5 per gallon.

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    MK_
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    Quote Originally Posted by KONA_in_SB
    Good to hear your replies. I believe I can get the seat high enough for climbing. I will be running 36 front, 8-speed in the back though, that will probably slow me down in the climbs but oh well. Right now it has a heavy-@ss Dirt Jumper 1 on the front (super strong and super heavy) that feels like crap on the trails. I have raced DH with this bike and it does go down pretty damn well, that is the main reason I want to make it into an AM bike. I was thinking a Pike on the front would be the best choice, I have one on my Coiler and really like it. After changing the fork out I think I would need some lighter wheels and tires. I have Azonic Outlaws wheels with Nokian NBX 2.5's on right now, there really nice on not so smooth landings but feel real sluggish on climbs.
    I would go with either air or coil U-Turn pike. Espeically with coil, you can still DJ well with the bike, if you want to as you can drop the fork pretty low. My buddy has the air uturn. He loves it too, and he DJs primarily on the P. A wheelset is a compromise, there ain't nothing wrong with the outlaws, getting some lighter rubber would go a long way, but I personally don't fuss at how slow I get to the top.

    _MK
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  8. #8
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    Swap the fork for something like a Pike, with adjustable travel.

    Swap that 36 ring for a 34 or 32 up front, and a cassette with a 34 in back. (at least if you want to keep it single ring up front.) Or not, and just suffer on the climbs.

    And be sure you have enough post stuck in the frame when you have it pulled up for climbing.

    That'll make climbing muuuuch nicer, but you won't really lose a much top end for when going down, either.
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    i just finished an all mountain hartail and its the only bike ill use. i was inspired by the 06 specialized rockhopper all mountain so i took a mountain cycle rumble frame and Z1 130mm w/20mm axel and a sun ringle rpm xxl wheelset from another bike; thats all the free ride stuff i used. i used kenda nevagal dtc 2.1 tires (same with as maxxis highroller 2.35), xc cranks, derailuers, shifters, stem, handlbar, ect... and the result is a 31 pound hardtail that soaks up the rough and still sprints like an xc. its like the best of all worlds! swap the tires with k-rads and i can urban or comute with it.

  10. #10
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    not meaning to bring a old post back, but I have the exact frame and pretty much bike. swap the 36 out for a 32 it makes all the difference in the world for some reason. my P.2 weighs in at 31 pounds and I'm useing a stance static on the front. its a great AM bike, but I agree with what people are saying. my stance is perfict for trail riding, light, very plush but not plush enough to bob. get rid of the DJ1 those are poo forks.
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  11. #11
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    I ride AM on my Haro Escape. It works pretty well. I had to put a 22t ring on it though. I couldn't get up anything with it with a 36-28. Short stem, etc.....

  12. #12
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    I set up my Chase so that I could ride some trails with it. Just through on a super long a$$ed set back seat post and a longer stem. It was fun, not very efficient just cause the frame was just to small for me to use in that fashion. Was really cool on the downhills though!

    So then I bought a Jamis Komodo frame and built it up with the parts from the chase. Now that was a kick a$$ed bike! The only thing was that I had the sucktacular DJII fork on it. Which is OK for DJ, but heavier than crap so I didn't even really like it for DJ. Anyway, I wish I still had that bike. Especially if I had a u-turn Pike on it that would of kicked it big time.

    But then I got a deal on a heckler frame and built it up with the parts from the komodo. I loved the hard tails for playing around. But the braver I got jumping and hucking started to hurt my back. ( I know technique and fitness could have fixed that too ) So that's why I got the heckler to build up as a lighter free ride kinda bike. Course I loved the heckler so much that I sunk some money into it and lightened the bike up so that now it's more All Mountain.

    SO.......actually I am again looking into getting another hard tail. I doubt it will be another DJ, but something more AM would be cool. And I would grab another Komodo frame at least in a heartbeat!

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    Azonic DS1

    I had a broken frame that I put all my parts on to a cheap Azonic DS1 frame.
    Its more fun that a cross country bike but you can keep up on most of the uphills to blast the downhills and jumps.
    Hard tails are great for improving your skills and in winter lower maintance. Last year I upgraded my forks to Pikes and stronger rims, the pikes are a good fork and great to adjust the travel when you need to.This year I have added a gravity dropper post.

    Go rip your trails!

  14. #14
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    I can only answer the ripping it up part, since i dont have a p-series frame. I love my hardtail for AM riding. I just put some 2.3 tires on 2 days ago and yesterdays ride was awesome. It was fun to be first down the hill in front of 5" travel bikes....not that I am a great rider by any means, but it was fun nonetheless. I dont even own a FS bike anymore.

    Mine is sort of light...about 24.5 lbs with the bigger tires on it and it the perfect bike for all around riding for me.

  15. #15
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    Chameleon makes a great AM hardtail

    I use a Chameleon with a Pike, 2.35 Nevegals, Magura Louise FR brakes, etc and find the setup very much to my liking. The hardtail is quite tossable in tight single track. While I do give up a lot of "cush" over an FS, the wider tires and 28 psi I run does much to smooth the ride. I can live with it for now since my rides seldom last over 2 hours. The approximate 30 lbs weight is nice, also.

  16. #16
    Desert Saildier
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    I consider my Jamis Komodo FX an AM hardtail. I am running an 03 Z1 FR with the ETA, FR wheels, 2x9 setup, and with its short wheelbase the bike can really maneuver on the tight switchbacks and winding trails and downhills that we have in the northwest. It climbs as well as an XC bike with the ETA on, and with the ETA off, is great on the downhills.I am replacing it with an 05 KHS AM1000 mainly for confidence on the drops and the jumps. Wow, I will have 3 hardtail frames that I need to get rid of: 2000 Access Ti, 2005 Access Aluminum, and 2004 Jamis Komodo FX.
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  17. #17
    Meh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by todd_freeride
    not meaning to bring a old post back, but I have the exact frame and pretty much bike. swap the 36 out for a 32 it makes all the difference in the world for some reason. my P.2 weighs in at 31 pounds and I'm useing a stance static on the front. its a great AM bike, but I agree with what people are saying. my stance is perfict for trail riding, light, very plush but not plush enough to bob. get rid of the DJ1 those are poo forks.
    Actually the DJ1 isn't bad. And you know that I don't get along with Marzocchi. They are tall, heavy, and have crap dampening. So there certainly are better options, but it's not the worst.

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    I wonder if I'm the only one who purchased an STP for the trails (burly & fun factor). It does fine with the seat all the way up and back, but looks kind of awkward. My only gripe is weight and gearing. The bike is kind of heavy when you have to walk it up really steep inclines, and my largest cog needs to be changed to a 36T so I don't spin on the flats. Sometimes when climbing, I wonder how much more efficient a true XC or AM bike would be - but all is forgotten when I'm flying DH or jumping around/over stuff.

  19. #19
    JMH
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    Methinks Cowan...

    Here is the All Mountain-est setup around... okay, it would be All Mountain-er if I put a FD on there.

    Cowan frames build up into great AM hardtails because they are overbuilt for jumping, but come in so many sizes unlike other Dirt Jumping bikes.

    Give it a whirl!

    JMH
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  20. #20
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    Does that Cowan have sliding vertical drop outs?
    I love my chameleon but want something that works a bit better with SS and disks. I've gotten 32:20 to work but its hard to set up with any other gear than that for the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    Here is the All Mountain-est setup around... okay, it would be All Mountain-er if I put a FD on there.

    Cowan frames build up into great AM hardtails because they are overbuilt for jumping, but come in so many sizes unlike other Dirt Jumping bikes.

    Give it a whirl!

    JMH

  21. #21
    JMH
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    SS Ready

    Yeah, that's one of the other big reasons I picked this frame. I ran it as a singlespeed for the first several months. The dropouts work well, but I ended up needing to put bigger flat washers under the bolts to get more bite... I had some minor slippage at first. It went away with the larger washers.

    The frame came with SS and Derailleur specific right dropouts.

    Now that it's geared I just slid the dropouts all the way forward to get the tightest possible wheelbase.

    JMH


    Quote Originally Posted by EricTheRed
    Does that Cowan have sliding vertical drop outs?
    I love my chameleon but want something that works a bit better with SS and disks. I've gotten 32:20 to work but its hard to set up with any other gear than that for the future.

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