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  1. #1
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    AM/Enduro Geometry

    I had to much time today (got bored studying) and did some bike geomety comparison. I compared most popular AM/Enduro bikes. I compared medium size bikes, some of them are 17-18˝ (if they have different sizing).











    My conclusions:
    -bikes are getting more and more similar in geometry (few exceptions)
    -Nomad, Liteveile601 and Mondraker Zenith have the longest chainstay, but the Zenith has 170mm of travel and Liteville is adjustable, so the Nomad realy stands out in this segment
    -Norco Range has the highest BB, even higher than all of the 180mm travel bikes
    -Stumpjumper, Ghost AMR and YT Wicked have the lowest BB, but they have 150mm of travel
    -Specialized bikes have the shortes CS (but we all expected thad, didnt we?), I was suprised with the new Kona Process and YT wicked
    -Ibis Mojo HD has extremly short wheelbase, even shorter than Stumpjumper EVO, which started life as 140mm travel bike
    -Nomad and both Mondrakers have the shortest top tube (horizontal)
    -Yeti SB66 and all YT bikes have the longest top tube (horizontal)
    -If you sort the bikes by CS/WB ratio you almost see which bikes are using which type of suspension. Dual link bikes (Nomad, Ibis, Mondraker) have extremly long CS compared to wheelbase and four bar linkage bikes (Specialized, Kona, Lapierre, Nicolai) have very short chainstay compared to wheelbase. The only bike that stands out is again Norco Range, dont understand really why is that.

    Hope you like It, please share your thoughts about this! If you are missing some of your favorites I can add them to the table.

    EDIT: New bikes added+seat tube angle
    Last edited by 666Shifty; 08-28-2012 at 06:18 AM.

  2. #2
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    Banshee Ruin and Spitfire (the new geometries are just now out).

    Thanks,

    G
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  3. #3
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    Great job, love the graphs, and 2nd the request for Banshees on there, and maybe throw in the Blur TRc?
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  4. #4
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    I admire the effort that went in to this, and it totally indicates what a bike is all about, but i'd caution anyone who wanted to compare bikes in this fashion to determine what was the best for them. There are other factors, like how the suspension sits in the attack position, ideal bar height, seat tube angle, etc, that influence the handling just as much (if not more) than the popular easy measurements that you've graphed. The bike is a sum of all parts, but not all measurements are easy to quantify.

    In any case, it's super interesting, and it's neat to see a new market segment be zeroed in on.
    .

  5. #5
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    Nice list You do seem to have missed one of the better bikes... No Mach 5.7 on there (OK, I will admit I'm slightly biased on that one though)

  6. #6
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    And no Marin!
    Props on the amount of work you put into this, that is a lot of info you collated there
    I don't crash, I just have slightly uncontrolled dismounts!

  7. #7
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    Ok, thank for the input. I will try to add Marin, Pivot and Banshee bikes today.

    @scottzg: Yes I know that this geometry doesnt tell everything about the bike, but It hellps for basic info if the bike is more DH or more XC oriented.


    EDIT: I have decited that i will only compare bike with 145-180mm of travel. I think 5" (127mm) bikes dont fit in this catagory (AM/endruo)
    Last edited by 666Shifty; 08-28-2012 at 03:23 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    Banshee Ruin and Spitfire (the new geometries are just now out).

    Thanks,

    G
    Where can I find the new geometries? I just found some basic info on Rune V2 (BB hight and HA)...

  9. #9
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    Interesting figures... Reach and seat tube angle would be interesting to include in the table also...

    Some interesting bikes that are missing from the list:
    Rocky mountain Slayer 18": HTA 66.5°, BBH (informed just as -16mm drop), CS 428mm , WB 1147mm , TTH 575mm, STA 75°

    Devinci Dixon(M, Low setting): 67°, BBH 347mm, CS 426mm, WB 1124mm, TTH 585mm, STA 72.7°

    Knolly Chilcotin(M, Low setting); 66°, BBH 341mm, CS 429mm, WB 1143mm, TTH 598mm, STAe 73°, Reach 420mm

  10. #10
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    Thanks for new data! I was thinking about adding reach, but I didnt found It for all bikes so I didnt put it in the table. I can add seat tube angle if u want.

  11. #11
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    One more missing, Nukeproof Mega M: HTA 66°, BBH 348mm, CS 439.5mm, WB 1164mm, TTH 374mm, STA 75°, reach 415mm.

  12. #12
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    Thanks for the data!

    Really helpful when looking for a new rig.
    Nicolai Helius AFR frame size L for sale.

  13. #13
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    I have added some bikes:
    Nukeproof Mega
    Pivot Mach 5.7
    Pivor Firebird
    Deivnci Dixon
    Rocky Mountain Slayer
    Banshee Rune (2012)
    Marin Atack Trail
    Knolly Chilcotin

    Pluse new colum, seat tube angle. If u have some other ideas how to improve this please tell.

  14. #14
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    This is awesome!!!! I usually do stuff like this behind the scenes. This is impressive.

    I am not sure if you can do this in your program. Can you plot with different colors or symbols to indicate bike travel? This would help highlight travel influences on the geometry.

    Again - super cool!

  15. #15
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    First, wow. Fantastic amount of info collected there and organized.


    second...:

    Quote Originally Posted by 666Shifty View Post

    -If you sort the bikes by CS/WB ratio you almost see which bikes are using which type of suspension. Dual link bikes (Nomad, Ibis, Mondraker) have extremly long CS compared to wheelbase and four bar linkage bikes (Specialized, Kona, Lapierre, Nicolai) have very short chainstay compared to wheelbase. The only bike that stands out is again Norco Range, dont understand really why is that.
    Seems like size is a variable missing from this picture. Most bikes have the same CS across sizes, but different WB. Seems like it speaks a bit on how a larger size might handle differently than a smaller one, even though the fit could be the same.
    I hadn't really thought of that, so thanks for pointing it out!

  16. #16
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    Super useful
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

  17. #17
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  18. #18
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    Awesome data, great job.

  19. #19
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    Great job, Thx for taking the time to do this!

  20. #20
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    Awesome
    Thanks

  21. #21
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    Wow! I get bored often too and do these kinds of comparisons all the time on scratch paper. But never to this extent and I always end up just throwing them away. I’ve always wanted to make a master list on Excel or something.

    This is sooo awesome! This list will definitely come in handy. Thanks for putting in the time and sharing!

    (I think this thread needs to become a “sticky”)

  22. #22
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    Wow! I get bored often too and do these kinds of comparisons all the time on scratch paper. But never to this extent and I always end up just throwing them away. I’ve always wanted to make a master list on Excel or something.

    This is sooo awesome! This list will definitely come in handy. Thanks for putting in the time and sharing!

    (I think this thread needs to become a “sticky”)

  23. #23
    fnar fnar brrraaaaap
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    My conclusion = you need a life

  24. #24
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    Left out the intense carbine.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilostmypassword View Post
    My conclusion = you need a life
    Hahaha. I took two weeks break from work to study for exams and this is the result. I still managed to pass two exams today, so not bad after all Now I really have to go biking, maybe I will add few bikes later today (Carabine, new banshee, Canyon, Cube, Cove...)

  26. #26
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    Couple interesting ones from Morewood, Jabula and Sukuma:

    Jabula M: HTA = 66.5°, BBH = +10mm, CS = 433mm, WB = 1139mm, TTH = 585mm, STA = 72.5°, Reach = 399mm

    Sukuma M: HTA = 67.5°, BBH = +5mm, CS = 428mm, WB = 1116mm, TTH = 585mm, STA = 72.5°, Reach = 401mm

  27. #27
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    Nice work 666Shifty.
    Could you please put in the Avanti Torrent please? The geometry specs are here: Avanti Torrent 1

  28. #28
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    Great work, my bike is middle of the rode of everything.

  29. #29
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    Nice work.

  30. #30
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    AM setup with 70 HA? too sharp? thinking of On one Inbred 26 vs Evo 456

    what are the disadvantages of using a frame with a 70 degree HA and 73 degree seat angle for a AM setup. I currently have a GT Zaskar but it is a horrible AM bike, sucks for downhill but amazing for long days and uphill. Thinking of getting either an on one inbred or a 456 Evo. I dont want to sacrifice long all day rides, but i want something that can bomb hills much better than my GT. is the ibred a good mix? or should i go for more slack HA?
    thanks

  31. #31
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    70 degrees is generally going to suck on the more demanding AM type downhills, will be quite twitchy on the steering front. As a rule you would want to be running about 68-66 degrees for more stability. If you don't like the Zaskar, which if I recall has a 71 degree HA, you won't like anything with 70 either.
    I don't crash, I just have slightly uncontrolled dismounts!

  32. #32
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    thanks for the feedback.
    ok, my main concern is that I only have a 100mm fork and dont have enough cash for an upgrade this summer, so wondering if a slack HA will be weird with only a 100mm fork or if it will be fine?

  33. #33
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    It will steepen the head angle and also lower the bottom bracket height, so pedal strikes may become an issue and the handling will be all twitchy. If the 456 evo is designed for a fork in the 140-150mm range, I'd personally be quite cautious about putting a fork with only that much travel on it. The inbred on the other hand is designed for a 120mm fork, so the above issues won't be so bad, but will still have an effect.
    I don't crash, I just have slightly uncontrolled dismounts!

  34. #34
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    Just stumbled upon this. Interesting statistics. However, you might want to consider the actual frame size rather than the manufacturer frame size. For example, a Nomad L fits the same as an Enduro M. This will alter your wheelbase to chainstay ratios (as well as other possible geometries). Ibis fits the same way. You have to consider the chicken or the egg (of sorts) scenario. Do mini-link bikes run small because they copied the sizing from the original Nomad? (which was a benchmark bike in it's time)

    I don't really know much, but these are just some random thoughts I had while looking over the charts. I wouldn't be surprised if there are other wierd anomolies that can be attributed to similar factors.

  35. #35
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    Hei! Yes i agree, there are a lot of things that would make this chart more useful, but it takes a lot of time to get all the data. Maybe someday...
    First i need to update it with new 2014 bikes, geometries changed a lot from previous year.

  36. #36
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    AM/Enduro Geometry

    B


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  37. #37
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    Three years later and the rest of the bike world is catching up to the early adapters. I new chart with Reach vs Stack on the X, Y respectively with all the new bikes would be cool. I've seen one somewhere that's probably a year or two old now but can't seem to find it. I think that's one of the best metrics for determining where the bike falls with regards to comparative sizing.
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