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  1. #1
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    Alternative to 1x11; 42T cassette sprocket

    42T sprocket you can add to Shimano and Sram 10 speed cassettes. Just remove the 17T cog and add the 42T on the end. Interesting

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    Seems like an incredibly bad idea, there's a very good reason that the top 3 gears on any modern cassette are on a common carrier. With 42 teeth, I'd think this would be a recipe for a destroyed cassette body and jamming/striping the splines out. That's what happened when cassettes used individual cogs for those top gears before.
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    Alternative to 1x11; 42T cassette sprocket

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Seems like an incredibly bad idea, there's a very good reason that the top 3 gears on any modern cassette are on a common carrier. With 42 teeth, I'd think this would be a recipe for a destroyed cassette body and jamming/striping the splines out. That's what happened when cassettes used individual cogs for those top gears before.
    It is an aluminum cog with a relatively wide base. Not going to do much to an aluminum FH body. Far less than a single steel cog.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    It is an aluminum cog with a relatively wide base. Not going to do much to an aluminum FH body. Far less than a single steel cog.
    Still it's about 1/3rd the size of the carrier on a modern cassette that only has to put up with up to a 36t cog, with all that torque going to that small area. Whether it strips out the cassette body or itself, I think it's a recipe for disaster.
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    I want Shimano to hurry up and give us a 11-40 10spd XT cassette, I'd sell hundreds of them.

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    Alternative to 1x11; 42T cassette sprocket

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Still it's about 1/3rd the size of the carrier on a modern cassette that only has to put up with up to a 36t cog, with all that torque going to that small area. Whether it strips out the cassette body or itself, I think it's a recipe for disaster.
    I doubt it will be a problem. Bet this cog's spline interface is at least a wide as a typical splined crank spider.
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    Alternative to 1x11; 42T cassette sprocket

    Quote Originally Posted by Fix the Spade View Post
    I want Shimano to hurry up and give us a 11-40 10spd XT cassette, I'd sell hundreds of them.
    Don't hold your breath.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Don't hold your breath.
    I'm not, but it would be nice, plus it would kill XX1 and XD driver hub shells stone dead, but since when have Shimano done things that made sense...

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    It wouldn't kill XX1, not even close. The 10 tooth is a big deal, it's not all about the 42. And the XD driver really is a better way to attach a cassette. Expensive, but better.

    But it would offer an alternative, where right now, XTR is pretty much dead. No one is buying them.

    -Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by trhoppe View Post
    It wouldn't kill XX1, not even close. The 10 tooth is a big deal, it's not all about the 42.-Tom
    Not to OEMs it isn't, if they could have 90% of XO1, skip the XD driver price/compatibility issue and fit wide range 1x10 to all models that would be it, XX/XO1 over and done with. Like Hammerschmidt after market wouldn't be enough to support it if the OEMs no longer wanted it.

    As it is it's marginal, some brands are fitting XO1/XX1 to high end bikes for 2014, others are sticking with ten speed or offering roughly equivalent models with one or the other to cover both bases. The XC end of the market is pretty much ignoring XX1 entirely, of my 2014 price lists only Santa Cruz are offering XX1 short travel bikes, the rest is dominated by XT/XTR/XO.

  11. #11
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    The XC end of the market ignoring XX1? Come out to a race everyone here is on XX1.

    -Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    I doubt it will be a problem. Bet this cog's spline interface is at least a wide as a typical splined crank spider.
    Err, we have seen it. A typical splined crank spider is much deeper with the splines. Typical cassette spiders are much shallower, not to mention that a 3-gear carrier is usually wider than even the 3 gears, out to the 4th gear which doesn't have a spacer, to spread the load out even more. It's really not close to a splined crank spider.

    Maybe it works, but given how even the 3-gear splined carriers eat a little into cassette bodies, I'm not betting on it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trhoppe View Post
    The XC end of the market ignoring XX1? Come out to a race everyone here is on XX1.

    -Tom


    Racers are but a small segment of the XC market, which is another small segment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Seems like an incredibly bad idea, there's a very good reason that the top 3 gears on any modern cassette are on a common carrier. With 42 teeth, I'd think this would be a recipe for a destroyed cassette body and jamming/striping the splines out. That's what happened when cassettes used individual cogs for those top gears before.
    i agree, there will be a ton of torque on this thing, either the driveshell goes, or this cog disintegrates pretty quickly, it's aluminium.

    Anyway what about shifting, obviously will need a long cage derailleur, but will it actually work?

    but if it does work, i'll be getting one!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Seems like an incredibly bad idea, there's a very good reason that the top 3 gears on any modern cassette are on a common carrier. With 42 teeth, I'd think this would be a recipe for a destroyed cassette body and jamming/striping the splines out. That's what happened when cassettes used individual cogs for those top gears before.
    not at all. i have been on alum. 42 cog (mirfe) for a while with zero sign of free hub body damage. before mirfe i had been using 41 steel cog from ebay for almost whole year, and even this cog put very minimal dents.

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    Alternative to 1x11; 42T cassette sprocket

    Quote Originally Posted by markymark View Post
    i agree, there will be a ton of torque on this thing, either the driveshell goes, or this cog disintegrates pretty quickly, it's aluminium.

    Anyway what about shifting, obviously will need a long cage derailleur, but will it actually work?

    but if it does work, i'll be getting one!
    The 42t cog on XX1 and XO1 cassettes are aluminum, as are most chainrings larger than 28t.

    Your other questions are addressed on the company website.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Still it's about 1/3rd the size of the carrier on a modern cassette that only has to put up with up to a 36t cog, with all that torque going to that small area. Whether it strips out the cassette body or itself, I think it's a recipe for disaster.
    I dont think that it is a problem at all.

    XX1 has been out for a while now - and ENTIRE carrier has a splined interface that is approx 5mm. The rest of the carrier and the freehub body have no splines at all, and there has been no reports of the doom and gloom you are claiming.

  18. #18
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    I have experienced the freehub body damage that Jayem is talking about with certain cassettes on certain freehubs. I am thinking its probably more down to manufacturing tolerances - some cassettes slide on super easy, others you have to almost tap on/press fit.

    On a hope hub I was using a shimano cassette (cant remember if it was XT or SLX) and it caused all sorts of scoring on the freehub. When it came time to replace the cassette I cleaned up the splines and then had a brand new XT as well as a brand new X0 available - initially I put the XT on, and it slid on easily - then the X0 - it was very difficult to get it on. Almost like a pressfit. And guess what, when I eventually removed that tight fitting cassette, there was no further damage to the freehub body.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    The 42t cog on XX1 and XO1 cassettes are aluminum, as are most chainrings larger than 28t.
    .
    can't compare them, they are on a completely different driveshell, and connected to a spider. This is one huge cog made out of cheese taking a LOT of torque, don't think it will last long around the spline. The general lee, at least, has 3 cogs width on the driveshell spreading out the load.

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    Alternative to 1x11; 42T cassette sprocket

    Quote Originally Posted by markymark View Post
    can't compare them, they are on a completely different driveshell, and connected to a spider. This is one huge cog made out of cheese taking a LOT of torque, don't think it will last long around the spline. The general lee, at least, has 3 cogs width on the driveshell spreading out the load.
    Mostly I am comparing the wear of the teeth.

    And have you seen how the XX1 cassette is attached?

    Not much spline there, and it is all on the aluminum cog.


    The threaded sleeve is the lock ring and is free spinning in the cassette. All the torque goes through the narrow aluminum splines.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Mostly I am comparing the wear of the teeth.

    And have you seen how the XX1 cassette is attached?

    Not much spline there, and it is all on the aluminum cog.
    Yes, but the cog is connected to the rest of the cassette and not free, yes? Not same thing at all.
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    Alternative to 1x11; 42T cassette sprocket

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Yes, but the cog is connected to the rest of the cassette and not free, yes? Not same thing at all.
    Obviously you do not know, then.

    See the edit. The rest of the cassette is connected to the large cog.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    See the edit. The rest of the cassette is connected to the large cog.
    Absolute correct. I am holding one in my hands right now looking at it and the freehub.

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    It's also splined at the outside edge. It's not being just driven by the largest cog. Much more surface area than the single cog.

  25. #25
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    Thanks for all the comments guys

    As was mentioned a few times above the OneUp sprocket is 4mm at the base. This is very similar to the XX1 load bearing area. We have put some hard climbing on these without marking the freehub.

    I hope this helps
    - Team OneUp

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneUp View Post
    Thanks for all the comments guys

    As was mentioned a few times above the OneUp sprocket is 4mm at the base. This is very similar to the XX1 load bearing area. We have put some hard climbing on these without marking the freehub.

    I hope this helps
    - Team OneUp
    Any plans on a 38 or 40 teeth versions?
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  27. #27
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    Alternative to 1x11; 42T cassette sprocket

    Quote Originally Posted by Scotth72 View Post
    It's also splined at the outside edge. It's not being just driven by the largest cog. Much more surface area than the single cog.
    What is? The XX1 cassette?

    No, it is only splined and driven at the large cog. The hub driver splines do not even come close to the outside edge of the cassette (see below). The splines you see inside the small cog are on the lockring/sleeve. That threads onto the driver and against the large cog. Totally free floating until tighten and carries zero torque load.


    XX1 (XD) driver left, standard FH driver right.
    Notice the spline lengths. See any outboard driver splines?
    Note the lock sleeve threads.
    Think about how a lockring(sleeve) needs to work on a splined system. Do the cogs turn when you tighten the lockring on a standard cassette?
    Note how thin that sleeve is.

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  28. #28
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    The XX1 cassette is a work of art.

    Just needed to be said.

  29. #29
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    That's interesting shiggy, seems very similar to the sram. I just wonder about the longevity of spline interface on the cog itself, can imagine that alu getting stripped bare there.

    Hope it works though, it's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for atm.

    Hey teamOneUp, need a real world mtbr tester? If it survives me, it will survive anything ha ha.

  30. #30
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    I think is this the route I'm going. Raceface NW 30T ring in the front and the One up 42T cog in the back.

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    Has anyone tried the Mirfe 42t? I use raceface NW 32 up front with 10 speed xtr 11-36 but seriously looking at a 42 t for marathon races.

  32. #32
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    Is it possible to get rid of the 11 tooth cog and go 13-42? Don't need an 11.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Is it possible to get rid of the 11 tooth cog and go 13-42? Don't need an 11.
    nope, need the 11 for the lock ring.

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    Also if you use a single ring up front you need the 11 to get any kind of top speed without spinning your legs crazy.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Is it possible to get rid of the 11 tooth cog and go 13-42? Don't need an 11.
    Why would you want to do that anyway?13-42 would have almost exactly the same spread (even a smidgen less) than a 11-36 cassette.Just put a smaller ring in the front and you're set.

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  36. #36
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    Leonardi Factory,General Lee 25-40 replaces top four on Sram or 27-40,cassette,replaces top three rings on XT cassette,aluminum,beautiful and light.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markymark View Post
    nope, need the 11 for the lock ring.
    Or pick up an oversized lock ring designed for first position cogs larger than 11t.

    Quote Originally Posted by Santanasan View Post
    Also if you use a single ring up front you need the 11 to get any kind of top speed without spinning your legs crazy.
    Depending on where you live and ride that may not be necessary - 13t may be enough.

  38. #38
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    How much b-screw tension do you need to get clearance over this cog? What would be the long term effects of running such high b-tension?

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    I would think you would need to use a long cage with this.

    Oneup, Can you provide more information about derailluer compatibility?

  40. #40
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    There are no trails that I need an 11 for and really don't give a crap about spread. I am more interested in useful gears for tight and techy that we have here. We don't have places where I would be spinning out other than a road.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by literally View Post
    Or pick up an oversized lock ring designed for first position cogs larger than 11t.

    I will check this out, thanks.


    Depending on where you live and ride that may not be necessary - 13t may be enough.
    Ack
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  42. #42
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    Alternative to 1x11; 42T cassette sprocket

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigrocks View Post
    I would think you would need to use a long cage with this.

    Oneup, Can you provide more information about derailluer compatibility?
    http://www.oneupcomponents.com/pages/compatibility
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by literally View Post
    Or pick up an oversized lock ring designed for first position cogs larger than 11t.
    you're right, i stand corrected

  44. #44
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    Thanks Shiggy

    It doesn't sound like the 42t will get along well with the Shimano derailleurs. They get really finicky when you turn the B tension past their recommended limits, which is what Oneup is suggesting in their instructions.
    Last edited by Bigrocks; 11-30-2013 at 08:33 PM.

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    That's why I went with General Lee cassette 40t is big enough and can still use a medium cage,long cage derails don't last long where I ride.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigrocks View Post
    Thanks Shiggy

    It doesn't sound like the 42t will get along well with the Shimano derailleurs. They get really finicky when you turn up the B tension past their recommended limits.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by half_man_half_scab View Post
    How much b-screw tension do you need to get clearance over this cog? What would be the long term effects of running such high b-tension?
    I just setup a 10sp system with a 42T cog from Mirfe on my wifes bike.

    I used a shimano XT cassette, along with a SRAM X0 derailleur (type 2). I opted to pull out the 17T cog to make room for the 42. When I come across a 16T cog I will put it in place of the 15 to balance out the mid range a bit - but it is really not a bad setup the way it is.

    I did have to max out the b-tension screw in order to allow the derailleur to get out of the way of the larger cog. I really do not see there being any long term effects, as all that screw really does is hold the body of the derailler in a "starting point". The actual spring tension will be the same.

    Overall I am pretty impressed - it does not shift quite as nice as the X01 I setup today as well, but for the price it is really worth a try. Shifts appear to be nice and crisp, with little hesitation getting into that 42.

  47. #47
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    Alternative to 1x11; 42T cassette sprocket

    Quote Originally Posted by techfersure View Post
    That's why I went with General Lee cassette 40t is big enough and can still use a medium cage,long cage derails don't last long where I ride.
    The cage length makes no difference the maximum cog size possible, only in the chain wrap capacity.
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  48. #48
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    Re: Alternative to 1x11; 42T cassette sprocket

    Shiggy, do you know if a short sram xo can be used with this new 42 cog?

  49. #49
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    Why would you want to run a 42-13 instead of a 36-11? If top end is of no concern, just go spiderless and get a 26 or 28

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Shiggy, do you know if a short sram xo can be used with this new 42 cog?
    The size of the cage has nothing to do with the cog size - it is the total teeth capacity that is important.

    Last I checked the short cage has a 30T capacity - so if you have a cassette range of 11-42 that will be a capacity of 31T - just out of the short cage but it MIGHT work. You would be safer using a medium cage.

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