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  1. #2501
    Only rides hardtails.
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    I think the reason some of us get so fired up is because the AMHT rider is a different breed. I live in North Georgia and I can honestly say I have only even seen 2 other AMHT's around these parts. The AMHT clan is small but really believes in what they are doing. I think the mindset is similar to the singlespeed rider. On the trail (and this thread!) I am very vocal about trying to spread the AMHT gospel, but some people just don't get it. I think the newbs that post XC bikes are doing it for the reasons stiingya says. On the other hand, I do not understand why others continue to say that any old bike is an AMHT. Beefy frame, big fork. This is the minimum requirement to be in the club.
    Seek first to understand, then to be understood. Maxwell

  2. #2502
    Go faster!
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    Blue- I'm AMHT and I live outside ATL. Nice to hear I'm not alone.

  3. #2503
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernVelo View Post
    Blue- I'm AMHT and I live outside ATL. Nice to hear I'm not alone.
    Awesome! GA crew representing here - I live down in Candler Park, work in Buckhead and play in East Atlanta.

    I'm without a good hardtail right now but hopefully will have my new bike built up by the end of January.

  4. #2504
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    Quote Originally Posted by stiingya View Post
    ^true

    But looking at the forums it does seems pretty logical why so many XC bikes end up being posted here. This thread is in the AM forum, but it doesn't say "the AM hardtail thread" Just "hardtail thread". If you search for hardtail's this thread comes up both in mtbr search and google pretty easy. And it is very active so it comes up at the top of the page for many people just casually checking out mtbr forums. (and the A in AM means this forum itself is at the top) Plus, and I think this is a huge part, there isn't an actual XC thread to even post in. There's the weight weenies forum, the XC racing and training forum, and the beginners forum. But no place for your average XC or trail bike to go. Plus this is the only hardtail sticky I saw doing a quick look.

    Add in that there is ambiguity in the AM category to start with. FR is pretty definied, and XC is pretty defined. But this category spans "more than XC but less than FR/DH", which is a pretty huge swath of bikes and very much up to the user. People talk about their being trail bikes, and the term is refered to quite often. But you don't see that term as a category in mtbr or pinkbike, etc.

    People keep spouting that a XC bike can't be an AM bike. But then nobody says that when someone posts up a SC Chameleon with a burly build... And although they have tweaked the geo for longer forks, that bike has been around way longer than the AM category. Such behavior confuses and skews the issue. And in the regular AM picture thread that has mostly dual suspension you don't see people getting flamed for posting XC bikes with longer forks, shorter stems, bigger tires and heavier components. Plus that's how the whole AM category got created, people making their XC bikes more burly. Obviously today there are ton's of bike with specific geometry for AM, (like that super sweet Cromag I posted a link to) but it didn't start that way.

    I'm not saying the Niner posted above is an AM bike, just that I can understand why so many XC bikes end up here...
    I agree with all of that except the SC Chameleon.

    Parallel example: The Komodo has been around for a long freakin' time too, but back in 1998...it was an Easton RAD XC race bike. In 2004, it became a tough trail bike. In 2005, it became an AMHT. I know it was labeled a FRHT by Jamis, but FR back then was a little different than it is today. Yesterday's FR is today's AM, LOL.

    IMO...a true freeride hardtail would be something like a Banshee Morphine or Evil Imperial.

    I think the lines between XC/Trail/AM/FR were pretty clear until people started bastardizing AM into AM-trail and AM-FR.

    To furthur confuse the genre/label issue...Specialized has released the Stumpy FSR EVO. (not a HT...but still confusing) This bike is supposed to blur the lines between the Stumpy and the Enduro. If I recall, they built the Enduro to blur the lines between the Stumpy and the SXTrail. So now there are how many genre/levels of bikes are there now...at least in the eyes of the "Big S"?

    Epic: XC
    Camber: XCTrail
    Stumpy: XCTrailEnduro
    Stumpy EVO: Trail Enduro
    Enduro: Enduro
    SX: All Mountain
    Demo8: FR
    Demo9: DH



    All that aside...the Chameleon is an AMHT.



    side note: I'll be the first to admit that my Komodo sorta blurs some lines too. It's not a BlueVagrant...but it sure as heck ain't a trail bike.
    Last edited by chelboed; 12-06-2011 at 11:41 AM.
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  5. #2505
    Bikes!
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    Better pic of my Slackline


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  6. #2506
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTscoob View Post
    Awesome! GA crew representing here - I live down in Candler Park, work in Buckhead and play in East Atlanta.

    I'm without a good hardtail right now but hopefully will have my new bike built up by the end of January.
    Another ATL forum member here. Live just inside 285 by Perimeter Mall area work in Duluth.

    I ride what I would consider an AM Hardtail (long travel hard tail) although I haven't ridden on what I would consider AM around here.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The All Mountain Hardtail Thread. Post up yours.-web.jpg  


  7. #2507
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    I agree with all of that except the SC Chameleon.

    Parallel example: The Komodo has been around for a long freakin' time too, but back in 1998...it was an Easton RAD XC race bike. In 2004, it became a tough trail bike. In 2005, it became a FRHT.

    The Chameleon is an AMHT.

    Other than that...I agree with all of your post.
    But that's the point, other than a slight geo tweak for longer forks they didn't do anything to suddenly make the Chameleon a new beast. The previous frames build up AM just as well as the new frames. Its just a mountain bike. You can build it to race XC if you want.

    Now the Komodo, that's a new beast! While the Chamelion recived minor changes,the Komodo has evolved into more of a freeride bike due to the massive rear stays meant for big drops.



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  8. #2508
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    Yah...I see. I don't recall the older version of the Chameleon. I've never been terribly attracted to it for some reason. It's a dang good frame, but just never jumped out enough for me to research it. As it sets though...it's construction is tough enough for pure am riding. Maybe the previous version wasn't really a trail bike at all. Just a short travel AM bike.

    It gets really frustrating when all these labels and labelers come out and stingya, LOL...but the truth is that since there are so many different styles and levels of bikes out there now...you're bound to find one at a price you can afford that fits what you do. The only good thing about the genre labeling.
    I get my boards at Lux-RC.com

  9. #2509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blksocks View Post
    Something that pricey should come with replaceable hangers.
    Are you like all the other Pinkbike guys that hated on this bike because of the steel der. hanger?

    Not a deal breaker for me at all.

  10. #2510
    Only rides hardtails.
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    Wow! It looks like the AMHT crew is more represented than I thought here in the ATL! If any of you southerners want to do a ride I am friggin down like 2 flat tires. Send me a message and lets exchange info.
    Seek first to understand, then to be understood. Maxwell

  11. #2511
    Only rides hardtails.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlcyclo View Post
    Another ATL forum member here. Live just inside 285 by Perimeter Mall area work in Duluth.

    I ride what I would consider an AM Hardtail (long travel hard tail) although I haven't ridden on what I would consider AM around here.
    Looks good to me!
    Seek first to understand, then to be understood. Maxwell

  12. #2512
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    Quote Originally Posted by stiingya View Post
    You can build it to race XC if you want.
    The Chameleon is exactly what its name suggests But SC wanted it to be more on the AM side. And this is why you can build it to race XC if you want, but it would not be your first, nor your second or third choice to build up a lightweight bike.

  13. #2513
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    man I really like the geo of the new komodo... it's too bad they don't sell them frame only anymore. You have to buy all the crap components with it. That would build up into a sweet light FRHT.

  14. #2514
    Titanium junkie
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    Wow, I ride a 23lbs hardtail in the Black Hills of S.D. , whatever the trail offers is where the bike go's.
    So now in the "New World Order" am I an AM rider, or XC rider. Is the bike a proper AM bike or is it
    a bastard because it does what ever the trail gives it to do. I apologize, I thought anybody who rode trails
    regardless of the terrain was a MTB'er. Can I start my own genre of Mountain biker, like the RAP biker?
    Red Anodized parts only. People post up their bikes in here because they are proud of the bike, most
    any human being enjoys some recognition for something they put time and money into. I apologize
    for posting my bike, not sure what genre it is as it does what is asked of it, in here. Maybe some of you
    can get a "Post up whatever you ride thread for the rest of us.

  15. #2515
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
    Are you like all the other Pinkbike guys that hated on this bike because of the steel der. hanger?

    Not a deal breaker for me at all.

    I don't believe I wrote anything saying that I hated the frame. I guess you're one of those guys that don't like to hear others opinions. Buying a bike is no different than buying a car. You want to get your moneys worth.

    Btw, I am most likely going to be getting a On-One 456 with no replaceable hanger. I don't care that it doesn't have a replaceable hanger, but, if On-One sold a 456 that has a replaceable hanger but wanted $50-$100 more, I'd buy it. Why? Because I'm getting my moneys worth.
    I give positive rep all around but then I get negative rep from all the clowns.

  16. #2516
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    Better pic of my Slackline


    Untitled by Jamie Whitfield, on Flickr
    ouch! I like this bike so much it hurts

  17. #2517
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    nice bikes can't wait to post mine here.
    Specialized Rockhopper

  18. #2518
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    upgrade
    Rocks Shox Recon
    XTR rear derailleur
    convert to 1 X 8 w/ Raceface bush guard

  19. #2519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loudviking View Post
    Wow, I ride a 23lbs hardtail in the Black Hills of S.D. , whatever the trail offers is where the bike go's.
    So now in the "New World Order" am I an AM rider, or XC rider. Is the bike a proper AM bike or is it
    a bastard because it does what ever the trail gives it to do. I apologize, I thought anybody who rode trails
    regardless of the terrain was a MTB'er. Can I start my own genre of Mountain biker, like the RAP biker?
    Red Anodized parts only. People post up their bikes in here because they are proud of the bike, most
    any human being enjoys some recognition for something they put time and money into. I apologize
    for posting my bike, not sure what genre it is as it does what is asked of it, in here. Maybe some of you
    can get a "Post up whatever you ride thread for the rest of us.

    It has nothing to do with everyone on the trails being a MTB'er. I already said that it's a nice ride. It's just not a bike that fits this thread. You wouldn't post it in a Cyclocross or Downhill thread because it's not a X'er or a DH'er. Just the same, it's not an AM bike.

    Either way, it's a nice bike and the topic is nothing to be upset over. You should be proud of your time / money invested, I agree. Blksocks should be anyhoo. On the other hand...if there were no AM threads...I couldn't go post my Komodo in the XC Post Your Rigs thread even though I ride it all over aCROSS the COUNTRY. There's an obvious difference. An XC bike wouldn't weigh 29lbs, have 185mm rotors, 6" travel fork, 67' HA, wide riser bars...that's an AM bike.

    Heck man...the term Freeride was almost copyrighted by Cannondale when they produced the SVFR's back in the early days of all this. Freeride back then was a joke, and All Mountain didn't even technically exist. There were trials riders doing crazy things on 26" wheels, but thank God there's all these labels now b/c if there weren't...I wouldn't be able to have the oddball bike that I love to ride so much b/c we would still be riding horizontal top tubed, 2" travel, quick release, 48-big-ring'ed hardtails.

    Don't sarcastically apologize for posting a bike. Be proud of it. I'm not as vigilant as BlueVagrant on the topic, though I do have a passion for Gnardtails for sure. I just like to take the opportunity now and then to broaden people's knowledge of bikes. If you don't want the knowledge, don't come to a bike forum. If you come to a bike forum to "give" knowledge, excellet. Just make sure you know what you're talking about as not to lead others astray.

    A complete nooblet to biking would have a really difficult time choosing a bike these days b/c there are so many styles of bikes built for a specific purpose. Maybe I can help in some small way by leaving an electronic trail that Google will pick up for them, who knows. I'm not riding anyones butt for posting a trail bike in the AMHT thread. I'm just saying "Hey...fyi, the term All Mountain Hardtail actually means "this".

    An All Mountain bike is basically a light freeride bike that is built geometrically in a way that is comfortable to pedal all day and light enough that pedaling all day won't send you to an early grave. It can take some serious abuse just shy of serious freeride. Generally a 6" fork...but there are shorter travel AM bikes out there. It's slacker geometry will shine on gnarly downhill sections and really make you comfortable enough to "want" to go bigger.


    I've heard so many people state that they ride their bike wherever the trail takes them all over the mountain...but it's not quite the same. I wouldn't ride Blksocks' bike off a 5-foot drop for sure. IMO, the Paradox is really pushing it. I believe the Honzo and Yelli to be the only two AM 29'er HT's...but that's just my opinion and in my book...that's really pushing the lower limits of the genre. I don't feel a 29" wheel is strong enough to handle the continual rigors of the style of riding.


    We're all MTB'ers and all have that relation to the dirt. We can get along and agree / disagree // educate / and be educated w/o getting upset.
    I get my boards at Lux-RC.com

  20. #2520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loudviking View Post
    Wow, I ride a 23lbs hardtail in the Black Hills of S.D. , whatever the trail offers is where the bike go's.
    So now in the "New World Order" am I an AM rider, or XC rider. Is the bike a proper AM bike or is it
    a bastard because it does what ever the trail gives it to do. I apologize, I thought anybody who rode trails
    regardless of the terrain was a MTB'er. Can I start my own genre of Mountain biker, like the RAP biker?
    Red Anodized parts only. People post up their bikes in here because they are proud of the bike, most
    any human being enjoys some recognition for something they put time and money into. I apologize
    for posting my bike, not sure what genre it is as it does what is asked of it, in here. Maybe some of you
    can get a "Post up whatever you ride thread for the rest of us.
    I feel for peeps getting flamed for posting their xc bikes, and there is some blurring of the categories. But come on...

    Did they just get the interwebs in your neck of the woods? You really didn't know mountain bikes were "specialized" for different uses??? Welcome to 1989, or whenever it was they stopped competing in DH and XC on the same bike.

    Really, 23 pounds and your not sure if it's a cross country bike... Are you 5 feet tall and weight less than 115lbs? Did you not notice the 10 grand you spent on the bike so it was both strong enough for AM and still could be that light?

    If you've answered no to either of these question you might be riding a XC bike, here's your sign!

    Now I'm not saying that someone with great bike skills on a XC bike couldn't school someone on an AM bike. (for as long as the parts on the XC bike held up anyway)
    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl
    Everytime you ride in mud, god kills a kitten.

  21. #2521
    Titanium junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by stiingya View Post
    I feel for peeps getting flamed for posting their xc bikes, and there is some blurring of the categories. But come on...

    Did they just get the interwebs in your neck of the woods? You really didn't know mountain bikes were "specialized" for different uses??? Welcome to 1989, or whenever it was they stopped competing in DH and XC on the same bike.

    Really, 23 pounds and your not sure if it's a cross country bike... Are you 5 feet tall and weight less than 115lbs? Did you not notice the 10 grand you spent on the bike so it was both strong enough for AM and still could be that light?

    If you've answered no to either of these question you might be riding a XC bike, here's your sign!

    Now I'm not saying that someone with great bike skills on a XC bike couldn't school someone on an AM bike. (for as long as the parts on the XC bike held up anyway)
    I don't suppose anyone saw my big grin at the end of my post, Lighten up people.
    And whatever you think you are, don't assume I am a newb, unless you've been riding
    since the late 80's, early 90's. I posted that to possibly get a response on a "whatever the hell you ride thread" being started. And just to enlighten you, yes us old - timers jumped
    crap you wouldnt believe on 80mm forks or even rigid. I do give you AM guys and gals credit, as the drops you folks take are nut's, but I do think the specific sections keep
    alot of people out. P.S. And yes, I do know what my bike is, it's a Mountain bike.

  22. #2522
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    Just venting. Nothing to see here. Move along, people.

    If you spend more time trying to figure out what category your mountain bike fits into than actually riding the thing, then I'm afraid you must be suffering from some sort of disconnect. And if you've bothered to contemplate the minute distinctions between 'xctrailenduro' vs 'trailenduro' without ever realizing that they're nothing more than marketing terms used only to sell more (usually full-suspension) bikes, then I really feel sorry for you. But if you try to apply these useless distinctions to a machine as brutally elegant, simple, and capable as the mountain bike hardtail, that's where I draw the line.

    I want to be clear - it's not I don't understand the distinctions between the categories, it's just that I don't see how they apply. I don't care about them. They don't help me as I'm grinding up a long endless climb, or let me more enjoy the ripping descent. That's a hardtail's job - its sole purpose. It doesn't care how you classify it. There are ultralight race versions to help with the former, and brickhouse-sturdy models that are better at the latter, but ALL hardtail mountain bikes can do both. Many do both very well. And to be fair, some are comparatively mediocre at both, sure, but at least they have the dual benefit of being a bit less expensive while still allowing one to develop off-road skills - and I'd dare say that every last one of us started out on bikes like these.

    They're hardtails, man. Don't overthink them. Just ride the piss outta them.
    Last edited by pedalmunky; 12-07-2011 at 11:21 AM. Reason: clarification
    All mountain bikes are all-mountain bikes.

  23. #2523
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    I think the line between all-mountain trail bike and XC bike becomes blurry when you look at something like the On-One 456. Other than a slightly more slack head angle, it is essentially a beefy XC hard tail frame.


    I considered a 456 for my "all-mountain" build-up but ended up getting something else. This other frame is a steel hardtail, multiple additional gussets on the top and down tubes, additional bracing at the chain/seat stay near where the rear disc brake mounts. It has fairly traditional headtube and seatube angles.

    I considered a Talas 150 but ended up going with a 120 Reba with 15mm thru axle. I got a 10mm rear axle and pretty strong wheels (king/819) with pretty large tires (2.35). I am a little guy (5'6" and 140lbs) so I typically don't break stuff on my bikes. Maybe that really helps because most of my biking buddies who weight 200+ are fairly regularly breaking stuff on the same trails I ride.

    Bike weighs 25lbs which is 4-5lbs more heavy than my XC SS bike or my 1x9 and has 9 gears which is 8 more than my usual ride which is SS.

    I built it up just for riding some of the more technical and hilly rides around where I live. Places I *can* ride with my SS but not really comfortably.

    My bike is certainly not a great XC bike or a really capable all-mountain bike but I can clear ~3+ foot drops, rock gardens and some insane rocky hills that make up much of the trails this bike was built up for.

    Took it out last weekend for its first ride at the Shed (fairly technical ride which has a section or two that *no one* has ever cleared) and it performed great. I cleared plenty of sections that had dual 5"+ squishy riders in our group walking.







    I can post my SS in a SS thread or my Ti 1x9 in the 1x9 or an XC thread without issues, but this bike does not fit perfectly in a XC thread or an all-mountain thread. It will see more technical trails than most XC bikes but not the large 4-5+ drops that some all mountain bikes will see.

  24. #2524
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    IMO, the Paradox is really pushing it. I believe the Honzo and Yelli to be the only two AM 29'er HT's...but that's just my opinion and in my book..
    AMHT 29ers are still into the "trial and error" category (generally speaking, of course). In the meantime, I plan to gently push the limits of my bike, step by step, and keep in progress as long as the bike proves to be what their designers say it is

  25. #2525
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    Nice Orange, man. The Reba with a thru-axle is one of the most underrated forks ever.
    All mountain bikes are all-mountain bikes.

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