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  1. #1
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    All-Mountain Bike - Worth to read!

    I just wanted to share my experience with purchasing an All-Mountain bike. This was originally posted in the Manufacturer section but thought this deserved to be in this section as well.

    After many test rides and reading reviews on pretty much every all mountain bike on the planet, i had come up with my own conclusion and purchased the C'Dale Prophet 1000.

    One thing I find when getting other opinions is that people tend to be very loyal to a brand of bike that they purchase. They pretty much start buying bumper stickers, tattoos and apprarel from the same company and try to get everyone under the sun to follow and preach that their bike is the best. Because of this it's hard to get a technically accurate opinion based on comparitive research. Loyalty tends to be human nature but I had to sit down and really look at this from a technical perspective.

    Every manufacturer tries to put together a bike that will best suit a certain application and attempt to blow out the competition through their own proven technology. It's no secret that magazines get their palms greased when reviewing a bike just to boost sales.

    In the end, the smartest shopper will try to control the anxiety and excitment of buying a bike and do quite a bit of research before hand. It's hard to resist buying a bike from the first LBS you go too. Those sales reps tend to convince you that the brands they carry are the best. Now it is more difficult then ever before as there are so many categories of bikes. We had the Jekyll which mutated to Scalpels and Prophets, and now we have Prophet MX's / Prophet / Europe's Prophet SL's / Rush / Scalpel. They have basically taken the popular All-Mountain platform and made it more difficult to decide. And I'm just talking about C'Dale's here. Have you seen Specialized's catalogue? Or Trek's? Shouldn't there be a bike that weighs 25lbs and does it all?

    Well I used to ride Trek's in the past so naturally I started out looking at them. To cut to the chase, I have tested them all and researched them all. Giant, Specialized and C'Dale were my top picks, but I have to tell you, propietary or not, C'Dale is a real winner. The biggest emphasis in the All-Moutain category seems to be the rear suspension technology. Now I'm not talking about which shock you use because that can always be changed for an absorber that better suits your style of riding. I'm talking about linkages. There are some real wild looking linkages out there and my original thought was that the more wicked they looked the better suspension. WRONG!!! I had to step back and look at motocross technology and motorcycle suspension. I'm sure they have thought of different linkages but a single pivot point has been the most effective. Ultimately, with the properly located shock a single pivot is simply stronger and very effective.

    With this info I decided to look for single pivots and concluded that the C'Dale will be my pick. Truthfully after owning this bike for a month, it seems to eat up anything in it's path. It's light, nimble and has a great suspension package including the patented Lefty. It's just a matter of time before C'Dale will make it available to other manufactures. We all know what happened with Sony and their superior Beta Video technology. I don't think the same thing will happen here with the Lefty as it is at the top of its class.

    In the end I am not here to preech about C'Dale and that it is the best. We all need to note one thing , "Your bike is only as good as the pilot!". But I will say that compared to other bikes in 2006 in the All-Mountain category, the Prophet is truly the way to go if you want a bike that can do everything very very well!

    Sorry for the long story but I felt that some people looking to buy a bike may find this helpful.

    I hope the 2006 season will be great fo you all!

    Cheers!

  2. #2
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    Versus Blitz is the best & i have the stickers to prove it!

  3. #3
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    Whyte46 is the best & I have the bike to prove it

  4. #4
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    "One thing I find when getting other opinions is that people tend to be very loyal to a brand of bike that they purchase. They pretty much start buying bumper stickers, tattoos and apprarel from the same company and try to get everyone under the sun to follow and preach that their bike is the best. Because of this it's hard to get a technically accurate opinion based on comparitive research. Loyalty tends to be human nature but I had to sit down and really look at this from a technical perspective."

    you say this^^

    then you say this

    "But I will say that compared to other bikes in 2006 in the All-Mountain category, the Prophet is truly the way to go if you want a bike that can do everything very very well!"

    this is simply your review of the Cdale, telling us its best. that is what you complain about everyone else doing. Frankly, the Prophet may be the best bike in the world for YOU. but the fact remails, that it may be horibble for me, and my terrain.

    And saying that a single pivot is the best design is simply not taking into account how much the shock technology has evolved. If it werent for Stable Platform shocks, the SP would be all but extinct from current high end bikes. Simply put, it is innefecient for peddleing. it works in MX because the bob does not affect forward progress, but helps in traction on a constantly loose surface. When there are technologys that can use standard shock valves (DW link, Maestro, etc) and achieve the same or better performance, you cannot simply state that SP is the best.

    And, you are all wrong, my Haro Escape is better at everything than anything you have!!

    Matt

  5. #5
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    People, people. This marketing blow is straight outta Compton (well C'dale). Please tell me how to get a job at a bike company

    Seriously, if you don't work at C'dale, you should be offered a job!

    The 575 is THE BEST all mtn bike bar none, and I am waiting for my stickers to prove it...

  6. #6
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    Knolly V-tach.

  7. #7
    thats right living legend
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    Boy, thanks for coming here to preach to the masses, your like a "prophet" or something. I haven't looked but let me guess, all the folks over on the Cndal boarde told ya what a great post you had so you decided to come share?

    After much research I have decided that Titus is the best, and it's only a matter of time before all the other brands are able to come to the same conclusion, and either fold or start paying Titus for thier designs...

  8. #8
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    You gentlemen are all correct!

    I have to agree, and it goes with what I pointed out how much of a hard-on we have for our own bikes and their setups. Maybe I haven't researched the market enough as there was a bike or two that I never knew existed.

    My conclusion other than the C'Dale being a great bike is that the bike is only as good as its PILOT, I never did say it was the best! This we cannot disagree with. There are guys out there including yourselves that could tear up any terrain or course with ease on different bikes, not just your own and equally as well. I have seen that before!

    Thanks to all you critics though and I hope that you can all share details as to why your choice of bike is the better way to go. Education is key!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Boy, thanks for coming here to preach to the masses, your like a "prophet" or something. I haven't looked but let me guess, all the folks over on the Cndal boarde told ya what a great post you had so you decided to come share?

    After much research I have decided that Titus is the best, and it's only a matter of time before all the other brands are able to come to the same conclusion, and either fold or start paying Titus for thier designs...

    I'm not a preacher just shared my bike purchase experience boys. If this makes you uncomfortable then I apologize. Don't work for C'Dale either, wasn't my intention to come off as an employee lol. I'm sure the Titass is the best!

  10. #10
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    I started off looking at the Prophet because I am a Cannondale fan. However, the more I read the more I turned away from single pivot design. I would rather have a VPP, Horst, or DW-Link. Of those designes I started reading up on the different offerings from Santa Cruz, Specialized, Iron Horse, Ellsworth, etc, etc. After all that research I ended up with a hardtail.

    Why you might ask?

    Because it was what I can afford.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PR0PHET
    Thanks to all you critics though and I hope that you can all share details as to why your choice of bike is the better way to go. Education is key!
    This debate never ends it just keeps getting more & more suckers to argue a worthless argument.

    Versus Blitz

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    The 575 is THE BEST all mtn bike bar none, and I am waiting for my stickers to prove it...
    I think I have like 3 or 4 Yeti stickers on my vehicle already! I need to get one for my Nalgene bottle!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    This debate never ends it just keeps getting more & more suckers to argue a worthless argument.

    Versus Blitz

    I can appreciate that note and thanks for that! But this is equivalent to player hating which is rather funny if you look at it. I never intended on bring that on......more helpful than anything else.

    It can be almost discouraging to try to post some info on here but in the end there are all kinds of people out there and I'm sure there have been some poeple that looked at the whole thread of info on here so far and might now make a better decision between a hard tail or a Titus.

    I believe forums should contain useful information and have some sort of filter for those other who decide to bastardize this privledge.

  14. #14
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    The "What bike to buy" forum seems to house a bunch of transients. Is there even a "moderator" in this forum?

    You will find your tribe in the Cannondale Forum and they will treat you as one of there own.

    It's funny how people take pot shots at noobies, I guess it's a hazing thing.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash_Burn
    The "What bike to buy" forum seems to house a bunch of transients. Is there even a "moderator" in this forum?

    You will find your tribe in the Cannondale Forum and they will treat you as one of there own.

    It's funny how people take pot shots at noobies, I guess it's a hazing thing.

    Please, my intention is not to join a tribe. That manufacturer section is good for those that want to exchange information such as FAQs on the same product or pretend to be a No.1 fan like those Elvis followers, PLEASE!!!!

    For the record, I own and ride my Specialized Allez everday for the last 3 years and wouldn't trade it for the world. On that note I have found far superior bikes out there that do not even compare.

    It shouldn't be about brand but rather about technology and ones experience through research. You know, if anything there should be a section called comparative research and reviews. A 20 bike shoot-out would list the pros and cons of each product and may the reader decide from there.

    Magazines have not done enough of that. One reviewer is not enough either since one might have a different opinion than another. Overalls based on 20 bikes / 20 riders.

    That would be great!

    Anyways, appreciate your thoughts and all of you, enjoy your rides!!!!

  16. #16
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    Kids, kids, kids!

    Can't we all just get along. Instead of focusing on our differences, let's all focus on what we have in common. We all enjoy riding, and that's the most important thing. Let's just try to get along, shall we?

    Only slightly less important is the fact that full suspension's for sissies anyway.

    We're all pedalers underneath.

    Ross

    P.S. Besids, my Klein Attitude Comp is the best, and I don't NEED no stickers to prove it!
    "I don't wanna die without any scars. So come on, let's do it before I lose my nerve" - Tyler Durden (Fight Club, Chuck Palahniuk)

  17. #17
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash_Burn
    The "What bike to buy" forum seems to house a bunch of transients. Is there even a "moderator" in this forum?

    You will find your tribe in the Cannondale Forum and they will treat you as one of there own.

    It's funny how people take pot shots at noobies, I guess it's a hazing thing.

    It's a little strange to see a thread with something like everyone should read this, than just typicly go on about a certain bike, in the (what bike) board.

    I think you'll find, people can pic out one little nothing sentince or phrase you make and completly turn it around, and kick you in the balls with it. Everyone figures it out sooner or later, and posts accordingly. As for spanking "newbs" I hardly ever think to look at someones thread count anyway.

  18. #18
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    Someone can come here ask a question about a bike or a few & get alot of different oppinions. One question & possibly 8 different suggestions. I belive you will find it very diffricult to find someone saying that this is the best bike because it's great or after someone makes a purchase that no one had suggested they get flamed. In fact all final purchases are great, another happy MTB'er.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    I As for spanking "newbs" I hardly ever think to look at someones thread count anyway.
    Now your gonna hurt my feelings.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    It's a little strange to see a thread with something like everyone should read this, than just typicly go on about a certain bike, in the (what bike) board.

    I think you'll find, people can pic out one little nothing sentince or phrase you make and completly turn it around, and kick you in the balls with it. Everyone figures it out sooner or later, and posts accordingly. As for spanking "newbs" I hardly ever think to look at someones thread count anyway.

    Well then what would be the point of a "what bike" section. Based on your findings there shouldn't be this section what-so-ever. I started a thread based on what I thought best suited my needs for the application and that was it. It actually would of been nice if you continued this thread through spreading information on the Titus bike or whatever else you feel deserved a spotlight. Why you gentlemen think this was a start of a "my bike is better than yours" war is beyond me and many readers i'm sure.

    I truly believe that we should all just move past this and spread good information rather than spam.

  21. #21
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    Look,

    Maybe you are new to online forums, I don't know, but when you come on a forum as a brand new member and spew a bunch of manufacturer, cut and paste hyperbole, you're gonna get bashed by the masses for the most part.

    I'm glad you love that bike, thats what it's all about. I rode one before my Yeti purchase and didn't like it at all - so what does that mean? That the bike sucks? Of course not. And you saying if I (we) want the best all mountain bike get the Prophet (I'm paraphrasing), well that's just as silly....the whole editorial was kinda silly.

    Enjoy the bike, again riding and having fun is what it's about, not starting bash wars over the net. So on behalf of myself (at least), I apologize and will say that C'Dale sucks and Yeti rules!
    Last edited by eatdrinkride; 04-19-2006 at 04:04 PM.

  22. #22
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    When are you going to learn it's ALL about the Versus Blitz jeezz i feel like a type writer here

  23. #23
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Now your gonna hurt my feelings.

    I don't "need" to look at your threadcount Seems like I remember you've passed on your advice from time to time.... Just can't seem to remember..what bike it is you might recomend.... Was it C"ndale??

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    I don't "need" to look at your threadcount Seems like I remember you've passed on your advice from time to time.... Just can't seem to remember..what bike it is you might recomend.... Was it C"ndale??
    Arggg noo my eys burn from that name crack&flail

  25. #25
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    Maybe I should trade it in for a Yeti!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PR0PHET
    Maybe I should trade it in for a Yeti!
    Now your thinking with the big head!

  27. #27
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    For the love of GOD...

    I posted another thread looking for advice on a new purchase and nobody is replying. Now I figured out why...everyone is in here flaming each other about WTF I don't know. So since I didn't get any replies I just went out and bought the best damn bike out there. I don't think that throwing the name up here or talking about my stickers would fill the void that everyone in here seems to need so I figured I'd just post a picture:


  28. #28
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    Hey, everybody's got a right to be proud of what they have, and it's fun to compare and contrast. That's what it's all about, not being rude or mean or "bashing" anybody. Just playful banter.

    Besides, if you're gonna trade it in for anything, trade it in for a Klein! How many times I gotta say it?

    Klein's a winner, see their prize, all other bikes are losers, make their owne sit and cry!

    Ross

    P.S. Had to post that, my nephew's sitting right here and it's his new thing.
    P.S.S. Thought you were all "IBEX this and IBEX that", dongonfr?
    "I don't wanna die without any scars. So come on, let's do it before I lose my nerve" - Tyler Durden (Fight Club, Chuck Palahniuk)

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU_Grad_121
    P.S.S. Thought you were all "IBEX this and IBEX that", dongonfr?
    You busted me!! Nobody hardly asks about a FR/AM/DH bike here, it's always a light weight XC bike or i want top of the line & i'm gonna break the bank & spend $500, so i share. My personal bike is a Blitz all $2500+ of it's 39.65lbs.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by smear3
    For the love of GOD...

    I posted another thread looking for advice on a new purchase and nobody is replying. Now I figured out why...everyone is in here flaming each other about WTF I don't know. So since I didn't get any replies I just went out and bought the best damn bike out there. I don't think that throwing the name up here or talking about my stickers would fill the void that everyone in here seems to need so I figured I'd just post a picture:

    You should have gotten this one much better for XC.


  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    Look,

    Maybe you are new to online forums, I don't know, but when you come on a forum as a brand new member and spew a bunch of manufacturer, cut and paste hyperbole, you're gonna get bashed by the masses for the most part.

    I'm glad you love that bike, thats what it's all about. I rode one before my Yeti purchase and didn't like it at all - so what does that mean? That the bike sucks? Of course not. And you saying if I (we) want the best all mountain bike get the Prophet (I'm paraphrasing), well that's just as silly....the whole editorial was kinda silly.

    Enjoy the bike, again riding and having fun is what it's about, not starting bash wars over the net. So on behalf of myself (at least), I apologize and will say that C'Dale sucks and Yeti rules!

    LOL, love the tricycle!

    Well success! I managed to get a sh!t load of replies but zero info. Instead this thread got just a bunch of negative jargon. Everyone seemed to knock what I had to say including the guy with the Yeti near the end there. EatAdRink guy told me that I was new and spewed pure crap in other words, which is fine! I respect peoples views. There are different ways of putting it but...............did he not mention that the Yeti rules which would make his response in other words, pure crap as well!!! Why don't people just share info and help each other out? I did say in my thread that this was my purchase experience and found after testing various bikes that this one seemed to be the best fit for me. In the end no one will buy a bike purley based on anyones advice until they try it out themselves. We are all pilots in our own right and can determine which bike responds better to us.

    The whole purpose of any thread in any forum on the net is to share information. I really wish people could say "the Yeti has it's advantages over the Dale because......." or "my grandfather gives better head than your grandmother because......".

    Whatever! Just tried to help, I still enjoy my bike and hope that everyone else including their grandfathers enjoy their bikes too!

    All the best!

  32. #32
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    Frofetch we all said our bike are the best just for you. Your post is getting alot of praise in the c'dale section, lots of snuggling & rubbing of each other. Your post was taken bad from the way you headlined to your slamming other brands in your words. If you would have left your post where it belonged you never would have found gracious new friends like you did here. TTFN

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Frofetch we all said our bike are the best just for you. Your post is getting alot of praise in the c'dale section, lots of snuggling & rubbing of each other. Your post was taken bad from the way you headlined to your slamming other brands in your words. If you would have left your post where it belonged you never would have found gracious new friends like you did here. TTFN

    You're right! It's nice to make so many new MTBr friends from this very thread...........chat with y'all later!

  34. #34
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    Prophet, you're taking this stuff too personally - it's the internet and people are just messin with ya (considering your original post, I can't say i blame 'em). Just ride your bike a lot and keep posting on this forum, maybe you'll learn a few things.

    Ant

    Oh, and it goes without saying, Yeti 575 - the one bike to rule them all.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by antonio
    Ant

    Oh, and it goes without saying, Yeti 575 - the one bike to rule them all.
    Wrong again!!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  36. #36
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    Prophet......Dude......! I am just messing with you, geez. Every person on the first 8 or so posts said their bike was the best. Get an internet clue

    For me it's the Yeti, before that is was my Tomac, next year or two later it will be Turner.....or Ventana.......or Specialized.......or Trek.......or Kona.......or Rocky Mountain........or that 3 wheeler from above..........but never, never, never a C'dale

    I was genuine when I said enjoy the bike, after all, you love it. Peace out bro, and don't take us so seriously (unless we mean it of course)...

    and oh yeah Dognnnnnfirrrrrr, errrr my bike is better than yours.....Ha freak'n Ha!

  37. #37
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    Hey Prophet!

    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    Prophet......Dude......! I am just messing with you, geez. Every person on the first 8 or so posts said their bike was the best. Get an internet clue

    For me it's the Yeti, before that is was my Tomac, next year or two later it will be Turner.....or Ventana.......or Specialized.......or Trek.......or Kona.......or Rocky Mountain........or that 3 wheeler from above..........but never, never, never a C'dale

    I was genuine when I said enjoy the bike, after all, you love it. Peace out bro, and don't take us so seriously (unless we mean it of course)...

    and oh yeah Dognnnnnfirrrrrr, errrr my bike is better than yours.....Ha freak'n Ha!

    Read this post twice...

  38. #38
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    I appreciate the last couple of comments there. It's very hard to judge my replies simply by text without all those colorful smiley faces but I truly never took offence to any of the bashing earlier.

    I was more just trying to get a point across if anything but I had lots of FUN here.

    Look forward to bumping into all you guys in the near future.

    P.S. The picture just above looks crazy sick! That could be my next bike!!!!
    Last edited by PR0PHET; 04-19-2006 at 09:43 PM.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Read this post twice...
    .............?
    Last edited by PR0PHET; 04-19-2006 at 09:42 PM.

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    Question for you all?

    With all that has been said.........I have taken a step back and want to take another look at some cons of the Prophet.

    Could any of you gentlemen explain in technical detail, not just bashing, what makes the Prophet such an unworthy bike in its class? I am curious to see why it does not stack up to the rest of your bikes???

    Hopefully someone can put together something useful here......just looking to learn a few things.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by PR0PHET
    With all that has been said.........I have taken a step back and want to take another look at some cons of the Prophet.

    Could any of you gentlemen explain in technical detail, not just bashing, what makes the Prophet such an unworthy bike in its class? I am curious to see why it does not stack up to the rest of your bikes???

    Hopefully someone can put together something useful here......just looking to learn a few things.
    No one here said ours is better then yours. That is the way you wrote your post. I started the comment "Versus Blitz & i have the stickers to prove it" & it went off from their. You are trying to continue a thread that you supposidly walked away from & said good by. The flame is dwindeling & your pouring titanium on it.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by PR0PHET
    With all that has been said.........I have taken a step back and want to take another look at some cons of the Prophet.

    Could any of you gentlemen explain in technical detail, not just bashing, what makes the Prophet such an unworthy bike in its class? I am curious to see why it does not stack up to the rest of your bikes???

    Hopefully someone can put together something useful here......just looking to learn a few things.
    OMG....I am ashamed I am still riveted by this post. To answer your question.....

    the Prophet doesn't pedal as well as my yeti, it is heavy like a tank compared to my Yeti, it is more difficult to navigate in slow, tight, technical switchbacks than my Yeti, it does not inspire confidence on the d/h's like my Yeti and it feels too 'sluggish'. Is that enough?

    BTW, this is just my opinion and means nothing to anyone who feels differently.......My bike is not better than yours, just better than Dognnnnfirr's......

    You asked.....
    Last edited by eatdrinkride; 04-19-2006 at 11:09 PM.

  43. #43
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    Prophet,
    All bikes have their own individual pro's and con's. It's all about what you're looking for in a bike, what type of rider you are and, as a result, what compromises you are willing to make - for example, the prophet seems to be a stronger frame compared to my 575. Don't second guess your purchase, just enjoy the hell out of it and in (blank) years look forward to buying your next bike (it could very well be another prophet - there is a reason why it gets such high praises).

    Ant

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Wrong again!!
    Yuck! What is that?!!?!



    Ant

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    I gotta second what antonio said. If you enjoy the bike, and it works for what you want, then who the heck CARES what everyone else thinks? They don't have to ride your Prohpet, you do.

    Personally, I couldn't offer any technical data on why anything is superior or inferior to the Prophet design, because I don't ride FS (read my earlier posts). Nor did I get any indication you were asking for any information, assistance, or doing anything other than raving about your new steed, which is cool. But in here, as in most areas of life, perception is reality, and someone else's perception is that C'dale is an overpriced piece. You gotta expect some ribbing on the subject. How much crap do you think I take over my pretty pretty Klein with its fragile paint job? And that's fra-GEE-lee, which makes it Italian.

    Now that that's out of the way, 39.65 POUNDS, dogonfr?! Are you INSANE? That would qualify as Ugh! Ugh with a side of Ugh, to be exact! I'll stick with my Unobtanium hardtail, thanks.

    Ross
    "I don't wanna die without any scars. So come on, let's do it before I lose my nerve" - Tyler Durden (Fight Club, Chuck Palahniuk)

  46. #46
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    My bikes the best

    Everyone...repeat after me...."My bike's the best".

    The bike you ride is the best bike because it's your bike. Frankly, I've written posts much like Prophet's extolling the virtues of Leader and Ibex to the point that I'm sure people just want to slit my throat. Does it really matter? Nope. We write these things because we feel passionate about something and want to share that passion with others. Others will disagree, and that's their right. I'm pretty sure that's why there's vanilla and chocolate.

    To the OP-glad you love the Prophet. Slick bike and one of the cleanest looking rides out there IMO. Enjoy it and continue to share your enjoyment with others.

    BTW-My bike's the best.....

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  47. #47
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    Funny, but I've never though that my bike was the best. In fact, in the end, Iíve always been disappointed with the braking and suspension on the XC bikes I've ever owned. I've realized that my priorities and expectations are different than most XC riders. So now for the first time ever, I've put something together that is truly wonderful and doesn't disappoint me. In fact it's better than I expected. But take it out of itís element and all Iíve got is a slow, heavy bike. I still donít think itís the best bike ever, but itís the closest Iíve come so far and it fits into the Ďright tool for the jobí category. Some lessons are very expensive.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by PR0PHET
    I had to step back and look at motocross technology and motorcycle suspension. I'm sure they have thought of different linkages but a single pivot point has been the most effective.
    MX bikes have a fixed chainline, MTB's don't.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by antonio
    Yuck! What is that?!!?!



    Ant
    Waaaahhhaawaaa your picking on me im gonna tell the moderator on you

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU_Grad_121
    Now that that's out of the way, 39.65 POUNDS, dogonfr?! Are you INSANE? That would qualify as Ugh! Ugh with a side of Ugh, to be exact! I'll stick with my Unobtanium hardtail, thanks.

    Ross
    Weight training, ya thats it!

  51. #51
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    Mines best
    28lbs of 6" travel sweetness
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  52. #52
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    Good insightfull post!

    And one correction my bike is the best, love affair with Iron Horse MKIII

    Blitzes Shmitzes!

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by baycat
    Good insightfull post!

    And one correction my bike is the best, love affair with Iron Horse MKIII

    Blitzes Shmitzes!
    Your just a stud! must go through 2-3 relationships per year with different models & makes.

  54. #54
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    haha yeah....but after reading these posts I gotta throw a leg over a blitz and see what it is all about!

  55. #55
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    Well I would just like to add that if I ever get my new bike (it's on a slow boat from China) I'm sure it will be better than everyones! HA! Except my old Trek 930 that refuses to die.

    Fuel for the Fire!!!

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by baycat
    haha yeah....but after reading these posts I gotta throw a leg over a blitz and see what it is all about!
    Going to the Napa XC races this weekend? Blitz will be there doing pit duties & feed zone patrol. I have been helping a friends son get into XC, kid is fast & strong. Cant belive these XC quys, have to spin, get massage, stretch, pamperpamperpamper, DH riders go race yahoo. It's fun though.

  57. #57
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    I just wasted five minutes of my life that I will never get back reading this thread. One the other hand, it is kinda cool to see an AM forum.

    I think I'll go ride my 15 year old, piece of crap road bike now and try to get my pathetic a$$ into some sorta shape for the season.Do you think the local roadies will be more offended with my 6 speed cassette with downtube shifters? Time ATAC pedals and mtn bike shoe on a road bike? Or, baggy shorts, hairy legs and a Camelback Mule???

    Just ride the dayum bike.

  58. #58
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    O.K. Kids , let's all just agree, to disagree and admit that Opinions are like a*holes, everyone has one and your own opinion is always the right one. AND I'm right 'cause that's my opinion and BTW GIANT Maestro is the best but I don't have stickers to prove it - yet
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Troll
    I just wasted five minutes of my life that I will never get back reading this thread. One the other hand, it is kinda cool to see an AM forum.

    I think I'll go ride my 15 year old, piece of crap road bike now and try to get my pathetic a$$ into some sorta shape for the season.Do you think the local roadies will be more offended with my 6 speed cassette with downtube shifters? Time ATAC pedals and mtn bike shoe on a road bike? Or, baggy shorts, hairy legs and a Camelback Mule???

    Just ride the dayum bike.
    Ahh but you were probibly enjoying the humor rolling on the floor laughing at a senseless over written debate that some insist on bringing up over & over.
    Sniffers like you get the thumbs up riding down the road, oh wait your not a sniffer your a bike rider, cool ride on doubble thumbs up.

  60. #60
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    Prophet, one point I'd always debate with you, in a friendly manner of course, is that Lefty fork. Not an issue of functional operation necessarily, but a very serious proprietary issue. When it comes to bikes, I'm pretty much down on stuff that requires lots of special parts and where availability can become a problem for down time during a parts failure or service. Yes, I know you can get a reducer for your frame, and that saves the bacon for C'dale's frames at least as far as I'm concerned. The Lefty, however, is too weird. It's harder to work on and requires a special hub. You won't find a front wheel for your bike on Jenson's Blowout Sale. That may not be important to you, but most customers need that flexibility.

    Your Prophet frame, on the other hand, is a very nice piece of work. It's nothing special, but it's a very solid, good performing design...kinda like a Heckler IMHO. I think Geminis are darned good bikes too.

    Anyway, as I said, this is a friendly debate about your enthusiasm over the Lefty, not your bike. Oh, wait a minute, one more thing...your comment about the 25lb. do-it-all bike. I've wasted...well maybe not totally wasted...a lot of money building stupid light and unreasonably heavy bikes. A true, realiable, full-suspension all mountain type bike that would weigh 25lbs. doesn't exist. Others can post all the pics they want of their rides that might weigh that much along with claims that they ride everything in sight with them. I'd challenge them to let a 54 year old geezer ride them on a real trail with nothing bigger than a two foot drop or two along the way. I'd bet that in no time at all, I'd break the wheels, hubs, handlebar, saddle, rear shock, or some other critical component. I once built a 28.5lb. Bullit. Overall it wasn't that great. Of course I'm talking about something approaching reality in the sense of the economy of bicycle purchases. Maybe someone with an unlimited budget to design and manufacture a from-the-ground-up bike could achieve that. I realize that my statement here is debatable, and isn't that why we come here?

  61. #61
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    fools and thier mountain bikes that's what we are.
    i put a longer stem on my prophet so it would be a better bike for me
    i've got a easton carbon bar ordered so it would be lighter for me
    i bought lighter tires so it would roll faster for me
    i had to put longer cranks on it because the fool i bought it from had 170mm on it
    today i bought a set of crossmax sl wheels for it so it would really roll faster for me

    i can't help it and i did it with a schwinn too.
    the perfect bike would have 12 inches of travel go up and down hill, roll really fast, and fit like a glove. if someone tells me were in can get one they can go to hell

  62. #62
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    Honda CRF250R

  63. #63
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    My Prophet is all over Ebay, in various parts. A Titus Supermoto will be the new steed by summer!

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    Prophet, one point I'd always debate with you, in a friendly manner of course, is that Lefty fork. Not an issue of functional operation necessarily, but a very serious proprietary issue. When it comes to bikes, I'm pretty much down on stuff that requires lots of special parts and where availability can become a problem for down time during a parts failure or service. Yes, I know you can get a reducer for your frame, and that saves the bacon for C'dale's frames at least as far as I'm concerned. The Lefty, however, is too weird. It's harder to work on and requires a special hub. You won't find a front wheel for your bike on Jenson's Blowout Sale. That may not be important to you, but most customers need that flexibility.

    Your Prophet frame, on the other hand, is a very nice piece of work. It's nothing special, but it's a very solid, good performing design...kinda like a Heckler IMHO. I think Geminis are darned good bikes too.

    Anyway, as I said, this is a friendly debate about your enthusiasm over the Lefty, not your bike. Oh, wait a minute, one more thing...your comment about the 25lb. do-it-all bike. I've wasted...well maybe not totally wasted...a lot of money building stupid light and unreasonably heavy bikes. A true, realiable, full-suspension all mountain type bike that would weigh 25lbs. doesn't exist. Others can post all the pics they want of their rides that might weigh that much along with claims that they ride everything in sight with them. I'd challenge them to let a 54 year old geezer ride them on a real trail with nothing bigger than a two foot drop or two along the way. I'd bet that in no time at all, I'd break the wheels, hubs, handlebar, saddle, rear shock, or some other critical component. I once built a 28.5lb. Bullit. Overall it wasn't that great. Of course I'm talking about something approaching reality in the sense of the economy of bicycle purchases. Maybe someone with an unlimited budget to design and manufacture a from-the-ground-up bike could achieve that. I realize that my statement here is debatable, and isn't that why we come here?

    Got to say i agree with you on the Lefty. I've owned a couple of C/dales with them in the past and although impressed with the rigidity, there are downsides- like going through wheel bearings fast ( although cheap and easy to replace ), the inherent stiction in the design and the complexity of the fork when you come to strip it down. They are probably a lot better now than when i owned them a few years ago and to be honest i did like the forks, but for the average rider who likes to maintain his own bike, the Lefty needs special tools to strip and is not easy to do. I suppose you could say the same thing about the TALAS, and personally thats why i won't own another one of those either.

    Had a Super-v and a couple of Jeckyll's in the past and had a great time on them all, who knows maybe we'll all end up back on single pivots in years to come!!
    You can't make a racehorse out of a donkey, but you can make a fast donkey.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007
    Knolly V-tach.
    yessir

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by el_chupo_
    If it werent for Stable Platform shocks, the SP would be all but extinct from current high end bikes. Simply put, it is innefecient for peddleing.

    Matt
    I disagree with this statement. They were not going extinct before platform shocks came along. A truley efficient long travel (6") bike of ANY design was not viable before platform shocks. A high-forward single pivot has it's quirks and disadvantages, but pedaling inefficiency is not one of them. Think back to 2000, before platform shocks were around. The Superlight, with 4" of travel, was every bit as efficient as linkage designs with less travel.

    I find it odd that this statement gets often repeated about single pivots needing platform shocks when pretty much every high-end long travel bike (including linkages) comes equiped with some sort of platform/pro-pedal shock.

    True, when the Heckler came out it needed the 5th coil to really shine, but that's not because of the platform feature (I use more platform on my 5" Horst Link bike than I did on my 5.7" Heckler) It was the progressive (and adjustable) compression dampening that completed the picture.

    When characterizing single pivots, you need to distinguish between high-forward pivots and low-rear pivots. They are completly different animals, with different strengths and weaknesses.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    MX bikes have a fixed chainline, MTB's don't.

    MX Bikes, all except for the KTM that is, use linkages in the rear suspension. The linkage used in the Giant VT is very similar. Looks like a single pivot, because you basically see just a big swingarm. But there is a linkage in there. And the fixed chainline, how's that? The pivot is behind the countershaft sprocket (slightly), and when the suspension compresses, the chain tightens.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta
    True, when the Heckler came out it needed the 5th coil to really shine, but that's not because of the platform feature (I use more platform on my 5" Horst Link bike than I did on my 5.7" Heckler) It was the progressive (and adjustable) compression dampening that completed the picture.
    You are aware the Heckler was kicking buttola beffor platform.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    You are aware the Heckler was kicking buttola beffor platform.
    OK, I meant the new style (2002-2003?) Heckler. It's a whole different animal than the old one.

  70. #70
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    It's all cool, have fun.

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    I gotta agree on the lefty fork. Not for technical reasons, mind you, but more for conservative reasons. A fork's suposed to have 2 legs. Otherwise it's a...a stick! Weird!

    Besides, I'm sure my clydesdale rear end would blow that thing out with the quickness! If something's gonna be proprietary, it should be widely available, otherwise it does no one any good.

    As for the comment about the 25lb do-it-all bike, yeah, I'm afraid such a thing does not exist. One way or another you're gonna compromise something. If it's not weight, it's gonna be strength, if not strength, travel, or rear suspension, or a saddle and handlebars... That's just the way I look at it.

    Anyway, stop looking for something that's gonna be a do-it-all bike and start looking for something that's gonna do everything you wanna do. It's all about getting out there and riding, ain't it?

    Ross

    P.S. Full suspension's STILL for wimps.
    "I don't wanna die without any scars. So come on, let's do it before I lose my nerve" - Tyler Durden (Fight Club, Chuck Palahniuk)

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Ahh but you were probibly enjoying the humor rolling on the floor laughing at a senseless over written debate that some insist on bringing up over & over.
    Sniffers like you get the thumbs up riding down the road, oh wait your not a sniffer your a bike rider, cool ride on doubble thumbs up.
    Pedal on my brother. See you on the trail.

  73. #73
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    My Homegrown is the best EVER...

  74. #74
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    Oh wait! I Meant that my Giant is the best EVER!

  75. #75
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    Ohhh Man! Never mind, My wife said her Specialised is the best bike. ( She's always right, Damn!)

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew-FSR
    MX Bikes, all except for the KTM that is, use linkages in the rear suspension. The linkage used in the Giant VT is very similar. Looks like a single pivot, because you basically see just a big swingarm. But there is a linkage in there. And the fixed chainline, how's that? The pivot is behind the countershaft sprocket (slightly), and when the suspension compresses, the chain tightens.
    There is more torque pulling on the swing arm on a MTB when your in your big ring/small cassette combo then when in the granny/largest rear cog. Since the external gear ratios are fixed on an MX bike, you don't get (or have to design around) this effect.

    Check out Canefild and Brooklyn Machine Works bikes - they use a fixed chain line like a moto.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

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    To much BS in this thread but I have to say that the Prophet is one of the most fun bikes I have ever ridden. I have a Prophet 1-MX. The MX versions have a thru-12 int he back and a gusset under the HT for extra strength. I have a 36 VAN and a DHX Coil 5.0 on it. Killer bike that does it all. I've dropped it off of 7'ers and climbed 2-3 mile climbs on it all without any complaints. I love the Geometry, feels more like a FR bike than an XC bike which is exactly what I was looking for...XC geometry just doesn't give confidence on bike rollers, drops and steep DH runs. Overall it's the nicest bike I have ever ridden in the All Mountain category...

    And with the technology of the platform shocks the single pivot is a non-issue. Fewer things to go wrong, fewer creaks, less to oil and maintain. I get virtually no pedal bob with the propedal turned up on my Prophet, when I am going to be riding more downhill I just turn the propedal down and get a very active suspension.

    Tom

  78. #78
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    Prophet... you started your post very well, but then you fell on head-first on your own preachings!

    I've ridden a Prophet and I didn't liked it. It didn't fulfilled MY riding style. But for some it's just plain awesome. I've had a Jeckyll, and to me, I liked it better than the Prophet. I have a Moto Lite now and I just think that it blows away the Prophet. But I'm sure someone will say that their 5-Spot or whatever blows away the Moto Lite. Some will say that a Prophet is better than a 5-Spot, and we'll come around in circles. To me, I prefer my bike over the Prophet, but I don't want to push everybody for a Titus, just to whatever they like.

    The Lefty is a great fork, but it's not propietary in the sense that only Cannondale can have it, I've read several reviews of different bikes that have implemented a Lefty on it. On the other hand, I've seen some owners of Prophet post that they dumped the Lefty and bought another fork. For some people the Lefty is a great fork, for some it doesn't. I don't think we will see the Lefty in the mainstream market because it's just too much expensive, specially compared to other forks. Yea yea, of course, if they mass produce it the cost will come down, but right now it's too expensive and require special adaptors, and, while the riding is great, it has some inconvenients for transportation (you would require a special roof rack, or remove the front wheel to stow inside a vehicle is VERY hard). I'm not saying it's impossible, there are some adaptors that would let a Lefty be used on a fork-based roof rack. Just harder. And there are lots of good forks out there, so I just wouldn't put my money on a Lefty.

    Some like single pivot, some don't. I think that on a well built bike, a single pivot is very good. I really don't care much about linkages, I think that the whole picture is a lot more important than what it's based on.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by PR0PHET
    With all that has been said.........I have taken a step back and want to take another look at some cons of the Prophet.

    Could any of you gentlemen explain in technical detail, not just bashing, what makes the Prophet such an unworthy bike in its class? I am curious to see why it does not stack up to the rest of your bikes???

    Hopefully someone can put together something useful here......just looking to learn a few things.
    Well, I'm not saying it is unworthy, but I can tell you what the drawbacks are. They are the same as any high-forward single pivot design. Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of that design (I loved my Heckler), but there are drawbacks as well as perks, it's just a matter of what is most important to you and what/where you ride. Having gone from a similar design as the Prophet to a Horst Link, the very real and very noticable differences are:

    1) The HL reains more active under chain tension (pedaling). This can translate into better traction when going up something bumpy and/or loose and steep.

    2) The HL gets better traction when braking, and it does not compress the rear suspension.

    3) The high forward pivot design squats less when climbing steep sections, and bobs less when I stand and hammer (though traction can suffer in some instances)

    I think the high-forward pivot has a lot going for it (thus so many companies use it). A 5"-6" high forward pivot can pedal very efficiently and still soak up some very large hits. It does so at the expense of compliance over most terrain. My experience going to a HL is that with 1" less travel it is about the same in terms of efficiency, much smoother and generally gets better traction. On the other hand, when I take a hit on the larger end of the spectrum (especially a drop) the Heckler soaked it up better. That's where more travel is just better. I tried running the HL bike in 6" mode, and it soaked up big hits as well as the Heckler, but it was too mushy. To keep the pedaling efficiency up and the squating down I needed to run more of a platform than I ever did on the Heckler.

    Now I know you are talking about a Prophet and not a Heckler, but the designs are nearly identical, and the primary characteristics are going to be the same, though perhaps there could be slight differences in geometry, and that is also personal preference.

    I think what everyone here was reacting to is not your love of the Prophet, but the dismissive way you addressed issues that have been well discussed here on this forum. These are not people who walk into a LBS and buy the first thing they are shown. These folks (myself included) do A LOT of research themselves. Frankly, to dismiss linkages the way you did shows, IMO, a lack of knowlege of the situation. They DO make a big difference. That does not mean they are always better, but they exist for a reason. Also, as much as I like the High-Forward pivot design, that design is definitly NOT stronger than something like a "faux" bar design. The extra long swingarm makes a longer lever to torque the pivot with. Also, with most linkages, you have some support for the rear swingarm up higher as well as the main pivot, and that adds tortional stability.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by PR0PHET
    Well then what would be the point of a "what bike" section. Based on your findings there shouldn't be this section what-so-ever. I started a thread based on what I thought best suited my needs for the application and that was it. It actually would of been nice if you continued this thread through spreading information on the Titus bike or whatever else you feel deserved a spotlight. Why you gentlemen think this was a start of a "my bike is better than yours" war is beyond me and many readers i'm sure.

    I truly believe that we should all just move past this and spread good information rather than spam.
    Prophet... you're just soooo missing the point. What I think sucks is your attitude. Sorry, but I do. You're stating as a fact your conclusions. I (and I think most of the other posters) don't think there is a 'best' or 'ideal' bike, fork, brakes, whatever. You were right on that sometimes we get loyal to a brand. I'm partial to Titus, Turner, Specialized, and in a less degree to Santa Cruz, but I'm open for other brands. Because I love the way my Moto Lite rides, I just put it as an option, and try to be OBJECTIVE as possible. But you're just saying that because you decided that single pivots were the best because dirtbikes use them is silly (I have no idea if ALL dirtbikes are single pivots, or if there are several linkeage varieties).

    I'm sure there would be like 10 bikes that you would love if you would have tried them, but you love your bike, that's awesome. It's tons of a way lot better than if you said, I spend this much amount of my hard earned money and this thing sucks! But you're just way off preaching on how your decision is without any slight amount of doubts the best bike. You weren't any bit objective in your observations, as you later said you wanted to have information.

  81. #81
    ride hard take risks
    Reputation: dogonfr's Avatar
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    I think Prophet spoke his mind at the wrong time. Since the AM bike thread was created & it was merged in he has been pulverized even worse. Possibly he was hoping to get new bike buyers see his light by starting this foolish thread in the What bike to buy. He seems to be happy, has'nt come back since.

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation: crank1979's Avatar
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    Wink

    So the general consensus is the Cracknfail isn't as good as my Nomad?

  83. #83
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    Personally I liked the Prophet MX much better than the Nomad I test rode...just my opinion.

    Tom

  84. #84
    ride hard take risks
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    Quote Originally Posted by crank1979@optusnet.com.au
    So the general consensus is the Cracknfail isn't as good as my Nomad?
    I like to add the flail in there, cracknflail.

  85. #85
    suspension whore
    Reputation: matthew's Avatar
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    LOL tears rolling down my face
    Intense 6.6..... Demo 9.

    Mammoth MTN downhilling - check it out
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb_m_pb0Ns0

  86. #86
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    Ok you guys talked me into it.... I'm buying a 05 Prophet 800!!! Thanks for all the help!

  87. #87
    ride hard take risks
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    Quote Originally Posted by smear3
    Ok you guys talked me into it.... I'm buying a 05 Prophet 800!!! Thanks for all the help!
    Beffor you buy you might want to check out the color thread, it's very very important!

  88. #88
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Beffor you buy you might want to check out the color thread, it's very very important!

    I'm gonna have to strongly go with dognfr on this...It's worth to read.

  89. #89
    In my mind, I can do it!
    Reputation: iviguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    People, people. This marketing blow is straight outta Compton (well C'dale). Please tell me how to get a job at a bike company

    Seriously, if you don't work at C'dale, you should be offered a job!

    The 575 is THE BEST all mtn bike bar none, and I am waiting for my stickers to prove it...
    Eh, forget the stickers. You need this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

    I would love it but it has gone over the price I had in mind.

  90. #90
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    Oh, that's nice bike!

    Where do you get one?

  91. #91
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    Link?

    BTW: By the time I posted that I already bought it. I'll still check out the thread though.

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