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  1. #51
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    Mines best
    28lbs of 6" travel sweetness
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    Last edited by 856er; 04-20-2006 at 09:47 AM.

  2. #52
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    Good insightfull post!

    And one correction my bike is the best, love affair with Iron Horse MKIII

    Blitzes Shmitzes!

  3. #53
    ride hard take risks
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    Quote Originally Posted by baycat
    Good insightfull post!

    And one correction my bike is the best, love affair with Iron Horse MKIII

    Blitzes Shmitzes!
    Your just a stud! must go through 2-3 relationships per year with different models & makes.

  4. #54
    aka baycat
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    haha yeah....but after reading these posts I gotta throw a leg over a blitz and see what it is all about!

  5. #55
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    Well I would just like to add that if I ever get my new bike (it's on a slow boat from China) I'm sure it will be better than everyones! HA! Except my old Trek 930 that refuses to die.

    Fuel for the Fire!!!

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by baycat
    haha yeah....but after reading these posts I gotta throw a leg over a blitz and see what it is all about!
    Going to the Napa XC races this weekend? Blitz will be there doing pit duties & feed zone patrol. I have been helping a friends son get into XC, kid is fast & strong. Cant belive these XC quys, have to spin, get massage, stretch, pamperpamperpamper, DH riders go race yahoo. It's fun though.

  7. #57
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    I just wasted five minutes of my life that I will never get back reading this thread. One the other hand, it is kinda cool to see an AM forum.

    I think I'll go ride my 15 year old, piece of crap road bike now and try to get my pathetic a$$ into some sorta shape for the season.Do you think the local roadies will be more offended with my 6 speed cassette with downtube shifters? Time ATAC pedals and mtn bike shoe on a road bike? Or, baggy shorts, hairy legs and a Camelback Mule???

    Just ride the dayum bike.

  8. #58
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    O.K. Kids , let's all just agree, to disagree and admit that Opinions are like a*holes, everyone has one and your own opinion is always the right one. AND I'm right 'cause that's my opinion and BTW GIANT Maestro is the best but I don't have stickers to prove it - yet
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  9. #59
    ride hard take risks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Troll
    I just wasted five minutes of my life that I will never get back reading this thread. One the other hand, it is kinda cool to see an AM forum.

    I think I'll go ride my 15 year old, piece of crap road bike now and try to get my pathetic a$$ into some sorta shape for the season.Do you think the local roadies will be more offended with my 6 speed cassette with downtube shifters? Time ATAC pedals and mtn bike shoe on a road bike? Or, baggy shorts, hairy legs and a Camelback Mule???

    Just ride the dayum bike.
    Ahh but you were probibly enjoying the humor rolling on the floor laughing at a senseless over written debate that some insist on bringing up over & over.
    Sniffers like you get the thumbs up riding down the road, oh wait your not a sniffer your a bike rider, cool ride on doubble thumbs up.

  10. #60
    TNC
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    Prophet, one point I'd always debate with you, in a friendly manner of course, is that Lefty fork. Not an issue of functional operation necessarily, but a very serious proprietary issue. When it comes to bikes, I'm pretty much down on stuff that requires lots of special parts and where availability can become a problem for down time during a parts failure or service. Yes, I know you can get a reducer for your frame, and that saves the bacon for C'dale's frames at least as far as I'm concerned. The Lefty, however, is too weird. It's harder to work on and requires a special hub. You won't find a front wheel for your bike on Jenson's Blowout Sale. That may not be important to you, but most customers need that flexibility.

    Your Prophet frame, on the other hand, is a very nice piece of work. It's nothing special, but it's a very solid, good performing design...kinda like a Heckler IMHO. I think Geminis are darned good bikes too.

    Anyway, as I said, this is a friendly debate about your enthusiasm over the Lefty, not your bike. Oh, wait a minute, one more thing...your comment about the 25lb. do-it-all bike. I've wasted...well maybe not totally wasted...a lot of money building stupid light and unreasonably heavy bikes. A true, realiable, full-suspension all mountain type bike that would weigh 25lbs. doesn't exist. Others can post all the pics they want of their rides that might weigh that much along with claims that they ride everything in sight with them. I'd challenge them to let a 54 year old geezer ride them on a real trail with nothing bigger than a two foot drop or two along the way. I'd bet that in no time at all, I'd break the wheels, hubs, handlebar, saddle, rear shock, or some other critical component. I once built a 28.5lb. Bullit. Overall it wasn't that great. Of course I'm talking about something approaching reality in the sense of the economy of bicycle purchases. Maybe someone with an unlimited budget to design and manufacture a from-the-ground-up bike could achieve that. I realize that my statement here is debatable, and isn't that why we come here?

  11. #61
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    fools and thier mountain bikes that's what we are.
    i put a longer stem on my prophet so it would be a better bike for me
    i've got a easton carbon bar ordered so it would be lighter for me
    i bought lighter tires so it would roll faster for me
    i had to put longer cranks on it because the fool i bought it from had 170mm on it
    today i bought a set of crossmax sl wheels for it so it would really roll faster for me

    i can't help it and i did it with a schwinn too.
    the perfect bike would have 12 inches of travel go up and down hill, roll really fast, and fit like a glove. if someone tells me were in can get one they can go to hell

  12. #62
    ride hard take risks
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    Honda CRF250R

  13. #63
    BRILLIANT!
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    My Prophet is all over Ebay, in various parts. A Titus Supermoto will be the new steed by summer!

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    Prophet, one point I'd always debate with you, in a friendly manner of course, is that Lefty fork. Not an issue of functional operation necessarily, but a very serious proprietary issue. When it comes to bikes, I'm pretty much down on stuff that requires lots of special parts and where availability can become a problem for down time during a parts failure or service. Yes, I know you can get a reducer for your frame, and that saves the bacon for C'dale's frames at least as far as I'm concerned. The Lefty, however, is too weird. It's harder to work on and requires a special hub. You won't find a front wheel for your bike on Jenson's Blowout Sale. That may not be important to you, but most customers need that flexibility.

    Your Prophet frame, on the other hand, is a very nice piece of work. It's nothing special, but it's a very solid, good performing design...kinda like a Heckler IMHO. I think Geminis are darned good bikes too.

    Anyway, as I said, this is a friendly debate about your enthusiasm over the Lefty, not your bike. Oh, wait a minute, one more thing...your comment about the 25lb. do-it-all bike. I've wasted...well maybe not totally wasted...a lot of money building stupid light and unreasonably heavy bikes. A true, realiable, full-suspension all mountain type bike that would weigh 25lbs. doesn't exist. Others can post all the pics they want of their rides that might weigh that much along with claims that they ride everything in sight with them. I'd challenge them to let a 54 year old geezer ride them on a real trail with nothing bigger than a two foot drop or two along the way. I'd bet that in no time at all, I'd break the wheels, hubs, handlebar, saddle, rear shock, or some other critical component. I once built a 28.5lb. Bullit. Overall it wasn't that great. Of course I'm talking about something approaching reality in the sense of the economy of bicycle purchases. Maybe someone with an unlimited budget to design and manufacture a from-the-ground-up bike could achieve that. I realize that my statement here is debatable, and isn't that why we come here?

    Got to say i agree with you on the Lefty. I've owned a couple of C/dales with them in the past and although impressed with the rigidity, there are downsides- like going through wheel bearings fast ( although cheap and easy to replace ), the inherent stiction in the design and the complexity of the fork when you come to strip it down. They are probably a lot better now than when i owned them a few years ago and to be honest i did like the forks, but for the average rider who likes to maintain his own bike, the Lefty needs special tools to strip and is not easy to do. I suppose you could say the same thing about the TALAS, and personally thats why i won't own another one of those either.

    Had a Super-v and a couple of Jeckyll's in the past and had a great time on them all, who knows maybe we'll all end up back on single pivots in years to come!!
    You can't make a racehorse out of a donkey, but you can make a fast donkey.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007
    Knolly V-tach.
    yessir

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by el_chupo_
    If it werent for Stable Platform shocks, the SP would be all but extinct from current high end bikes. Simply put, it is innefecient for peddleing.

    Matt
    I disagree with this statement. They were not going extinct before platform shocks came along. A truley efficient long travel (6") bike of ANY design was not viable before platform shocks. A high-forward single pivot has it's quirks and disadvantages, but pedaling inefficiency is not one of them. Think back to 2000, before platform shocks were around. The Superlight, with 4" of travel, was every bit as efficient as linkage designs with less travel.

    I find it odd that this statement gets often repeated about single pivots needing platform shocks when pretty much every high-end long travel bike (including linkages) comes equiped with some sort of platform/pro-pedal shock.

    True, when the Heckler came out it needed the 5th coil to really shine, but that's not because of the platform feature (I use more platform on my 5" Horst Link bike than I did on my 5.7" Heckler) It was the progressive (and adjustable) compression dampening that completed the picture.

    When characterizing single pivots, you need to distinguish between high-forward pivots and low-rear pivots. They are completly different animals, with different strengths and weaknesses.

  17. #67
    bikerpilot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    MX bikes have a fixed chainline, MTB's don't.

    MX Bikes, all except for the KTM that is, use linkages in the rear suspension. The linkage used in the Giant VT is very similar. Looks like a single pivot, because you basically see just a big swingarm. But there is a linkage in there. And the fixed chainline, how's that? The pivot is behind the countershaft sprocket (slightly), and when the suspension compresses, the chain tightens.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta
    True, when the Heckler came out it needed the 5th coil to really shine, but that's not because of the platform feature (I use more platform on my 5" Horst Link bike than I did on my 5.7" Heckler) It was the progressive (and adjustable) compression dampening that completed the picture.
    You are aware the Heckler was kicking buttola beffor platform.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    You are aware the Heckler was kicking buttola beffor platform.
    OK, I meant the new style (2002-2003?) Heckler. It's a whole different animal than the old one.

  20. #70
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    It's all cool, have fun.

  21. #71
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    I gotta agree on the lefty fork. Not for technical reasons, mind you, but more for conservative reasons. A fork's suposed to have 2 legs. Otherwise it's a...a stick! Weird!

    Besides, I'm sure my clydesdale rear end would blow that thing out with the quickness! If something's gonna be proprietary, it should be widely available, otherwise it does no one any good.

    As for the comment about the 25lb do-it-all bike, yeah, I'm afraid such a thing does not exist. One way or another you're gonna compromise something. If it's not weight, it's gonna be strength, if not strength, travel, or rear suspension, or a saddle and handlebars... That's just the way I look at it.

    Anyway, stop looking for something that's gonna be a do-it-all bike and start looking for something that's gonna do everything you wanna do. It's all about getting out there and riding, ain't it?

    Ross

    P.S. Full suspension's STILL for wimps.
    "I don't wanna die without any scars. So come on, let's do it before I lose my nerve" - Tyler Durden (Fight Club, Chuck Palahniuk)

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Ahh but you were probibly enjoying the humor rolling on the floor laughing at a senseless over written debate that some insist on bringing up over & over.
    Sniffers like you get the thumbs up riding down the road, oh wait your not a sniffer your a bike rider, cool ride on doubble thumbs up.
    Pedal on my brother. See you on the trail.

  23. #73
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    My Homegrown is the best EVER...

  24. #74
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    Oh wait! I Meant that my Giant is the best EVER!

  25. #75
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    Ohhh Man! Never mind, My wife said her Specialised is the best bike. ( She's always right, Damn!)

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew-FSR
    MX Bikes, all except for the KTM that is, use linkages in the rear suspension. The linkage used in the Giant VT is very similar. Looks like a single pivot, because you basically see just a big swingarm. But there is a linkage in there. And the fixed chainline, how's that? The pivot is behind the countershaft sprocket (slightly), and when the suspension compresses, the chain tightens.
    There is more torque pulling on the swing arm on a MTB when your in your big ring/small cassette combo then when in the granny/largest rear cog. Since the external gear ratios are fixed on an MX bike, you don't get (or have to design around) this effect.

    Check out Canefild and Brooklyn Machine Works bikes - they use a fixed chain line like a moto.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  27. #77
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    To much BS in this thread but I have to say that the Prophet is one of the most fun bikes I have ever ridden. I have a Prophet 1-MX. The MX versions have a thru-12 int he back and a gusset under the HT for extra strength. I have a 36 VAN and a DHX Coil 5.0 on it. Killer bike that does it all. I've dropped it off of 7'ers and climbed 2-3 mile climbs on it all without any complaints. I love the Geometry, feels more like a FR bike than an XC bike which is exactly what I was looking for...XC geometry just doesn't give confidence on bike rollers, drops and steep DH runs. Overall it's the nicest bike I have ever ridden in the All Mountain category...

    And with the technology of the platform shocks the single pivot is a non-issue. Fewer things to go wrong, fewer creaks, less to oil and maintain. I get virtually no pedal bob with the propedal turned up on my Prophet, when I am going to be riding more downhill I just turn the propedal down and get a very active suspension.

    Tom

  28. #78
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    Prophet... you started your post very well, but then you fell on head-first on your own preachings!

    I've ridden a Prophet and I didn't liked it. It didn't fulfilled MY riding style. But for some it's just plain awesome. I've had a Jeckyll, and to me, I liked it better than the Prophet. I have a Moto Lite now and I just think that it blows away the Prophet. But I'm sure someone will say that their 5-Spot or whatever blows away the Moto Lite. Some will say that a Prophet is better than a 5-Spot, and we'll come around in circles. To me, I prefer my bike over the Prophet, but I don't want to push everybody for a Titus, just to whatever they like.

    The Lefty is a great fork, but it's not propietary in the sense that only Cannondale can have it, I've read several reviews of different bikes that have implemented a Lefty on it. On the other hand, I've seen some owners of Prophet post that they dumped the Lefty and bought another fork. For some people the Lefty is a great fork, for some it doesn't. I don't think we will see the Lefty in the mainstream market because it's just too much expensive, specially compared to other forks. Yea yea, of course, if they mass produce it the cost will come down, but right now it's too expensive and require special adaptors, and, while the riding is great, it has some inconvenients for transportation (you would require a special roof rack, or remove the front wheel to stow inside a vehicle is VERY hard). I'm not saying it's impossible, there are some adaptors that would let a Lefty be used on a fork-based roof rack. Just harder. And there are lots of good forks out there, so I just wouldn't put my money on a Lefty.

    Some like single pivot, some don't. I think that on a well built bike, a single pivot is very good. I really don't care much about linkages, I think that the whole picture is a lot more important than what it's based on.

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by PR0PHET
    With all that has been said.........I have taken a step back and want to take another look at some cons of the Prophet.

    Could any of you gentlemen explain in technical detail, not just bashing, what makes the Prophet such an unworthy bike in its class? I am curious to see why it does not stack up to the rest of your bikes???

    Hopefully someone can put together something useful here......just looking to learn a few things.
    Well, I'm not saying it is unworthy, but I can tell you what the drawbacks are. They are the same as any high-forward single pivot design. Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of that design (I loved my Heckler), but there are drawbacks as well as perks, it's just a matter of what is most important to you and what/where you ride. Having gone from a similar design as the Prophet to a Horst Link, the very real and very noticable differences are:

    1) The HL reains more active under chain tension (pedaling). This can translate into better traction when going up something bumpy and/or loose and steep.

    2) The HL gets better traction when braking, and it does not compress the rear suspension.

    3) The high forward pivot design squats less when climbing steep sections, and bobs less when I stand and hammer (though traction can suffer in some instances)

    I think the high-forward pivot has a lot going for it (thus so many companies use it). A 5"-6" high forward pivot can pedal very efficiently and still soak up some very large hits. It does so at the expense of compliance over most terrain. My experience going to a HL is that with 1" less travel it is about the same in terms of efficiency, much smoother and generally gets better traction. On the other hand, when I take a hit on the larger end of the spectrum (especially a drop) the Heckler soaked it up better. That's where more travel is just better. I tried running the HL bike in 6" mode, and it soaked up big hits as well as the Heckler, but it was too mushy. To keep the pedaling efficiency up and the squating down I needed to run more of a platform than I ever did on the Heckler.

    Now I know you are talking about a Prophet and not a Heckler, but the designs are nearly identical, and the primary characteristics are going to be the same, though perhaps there could be slight differences in geometry, and that is also personal preference.

    I think what everyone here was reacting to is not your love of the Prophet, but the dismissive way you addressed issues that have been well discussed here on this forum. These are not people who walk into a LBS and buy the first thing they are shown. These folks (myself included) do A LOT of research themselves. Frankly, to dismiss linkages the way you did shows, IMO, a lack of knowlege of the situation. They DO make a big difference. That does not mean they are always better, but they exist for a reason. Also, as much as I like the High-Forward pivot design, that design is definitly NOT stronger than something like a "faux" bar design. The extra long swingarm makes a longer lever to torque the pivot with. Also, with most linkages, you have some support for the rear swingarm up higher as well as the main pivot, and that adds tortional stability.

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by PR0PHET
    Well then what would be the point of a "what bike" section. Based on your findings there shouldn't be this section what-so-ever. I started a thread based on what I thought best suited my needs for the application and that was it. It actually would of been nice if you continued this thread through spreading information on the Titus bike or whatever else you feel deserved a spotlight. Why you gentlemen think this was a start of a "my bike is better than yours" war is beyond me and many readers i'm sure.

    I truly believe that we should all just move past this and spread good information rather than spam.
    Prophet... you're just soooo missing the point. What I think sucks is your attitude. Sorry, but I do. You're stating as a fact your conclusions. I (and I think most of the other posters) don't think there is a 'best' or 'ideal' bike, fork, brakes, whatever. You were right on that sometimes we get loyal to a brand. I'm partial to Titus, Turner, Specialized, and in a less degree to Santa Cruz, but I'm open for other brands. Because I love the way my Moto Lite rides, I just put it as an option, and try to be OBJECTIVE as possible. But you're just saying that because you decided that single pivots were the best because dirtbikes use them is silly (I have no idea if ALL dirtbikes are single pivots, or if there are several linkeage varieties).

    I'm sure there would be like 10 bikes that you would love if you would have tried them, but you love your bike, that's awesome. It's tons of a way lot better than if you said, I spend this much amount of my hard earned money and this thing sucks! But you're just way off preaching on how your decision is without any slight amount of doubts the best bike. You weren't any bit objective in your observations, as you later said you wanted to have information.

  31. #81
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    I think Prophet spoke his mind at the wrong time. Since the AM bike thread was created & it was merged in he has been pulverized even worse. Possibly he was hoping to get new bike buyers see his light by starting this foolish thread in the What bike to buy. He seems to be happy, has'nt come back since.

  32. #82
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    Wink

    So the general consensus is the Cracknfail isn't as good as my Nomad?

  33. #83
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    Personally I liked the Prophet MX much better than the Nomad I test rode...just my opinion.

    Tom

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by crank1979@optusnet.com.au
    So the general consensus is the Cracknfail isn't as good as my Nomad?
    I like to add the flail in there, cracknflail.

  35. #85
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    LOL tears rolling down my face
    Intense 6.6..... Demo 9.

    Mammoth MTN downhilling - check it out
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb_m_pb0Ns0

  36. #86
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    Ok you guys talked me into it.... I'm buying a 05 Prophet 800!!! Thanks for all the help!

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by smear3
    Ok you guys talked me into it.... I'm buying a 05 Prophet 800!!! Thanks for all the help!
    Beffor you buy you might want to check out the color thread, it's very very important!

  38. #88
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Beffor you buy you might want to check out the color thread, it's very very important!

    I'm gonna have to strongly go with dognfr on this...It's worth to read.

  39. #89
    In my mind, I can do it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    People, people. This marketing blow is straight outta Compton (well C'dale). Please tell me how to get a job at a bike company

    Seriously, if you don't work at C'dale, you should be offered a job!

    The 575 is THE BEST all mtn bike bar none, and I am waiting for my stickers to prove it...
    Eh, forget the stickers. You need this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

    I would love it but it has gone over the price I had in mind.

  40. #90
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    Oh, that's nice bike!

    Where do you get one?

  41. #91
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    Link?

    BTW: By the time I posted that I already bought it. I'll still check out the thread though.

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