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  1. #1
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    All Mountain = pony up for new gear?

    So after trolling through and also reading some posts I get where you AM dudes and dudettes are coming from sort of, not sure I agree but that's another post. What I can't get over is all the "what's the best _____ for AM riding". If AM riding truly is a type of rider somewhere between XC/FR and DH I'd assume that there would be alot of gear that could cross over. An example would be helmets, do you really need a AM specific helmet? saddle? shorts? I think this is where the "what's the best AM dog? water?" threads come from. I understand some gear is AM specific but can't help look at some of these posts and think about the old saying, "a fool and his money are soon parted". Much of it seems to be marketing hype, at least the examples above. Just my 2 cents, not trying to troll, just thinking. I'm out.
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  2. #2
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    I have one question.

    What is the best all mountain do-rag?

    I've been hunting for a Dew-rag, but I can't find one.

  3. #3
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    I think do-rags are worn by XC guys (hell maybe DH guys- I'm so out of touch!) and Dew-rags are the choice of the AM rider. But whatever you do, under no circumstance should you be seen riding an AM bike with a mere do-rag!
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  4. #4
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    Jug, despite the fact that I do think you're trolling, I'll try to enlighten you. I think you're making too much out of the AM label. The fact that there is a label is just something that makes it easier to refer to...instead of one of those bikes that is relatively light, but has a good deal of travel, is quite strong, will take a good deal of abuse, and can be ridden uphill. I mean, if you know your MTB history, you'll recall that there were basically two types of MTB'ing and the bikes to do them...light XC type bikes and DH bikes. And while people would take their XC bikes and put DH stuff on them, and some others would take their DH bikes and put XC stuff on them, all in an effort to achieve the bike that could do more of everything, obviously it wasn't the perfect solution. The AM issue is just based upon getting that bike and yes, even the gear, that accomplishes that best-of-both-worlds compromise that many are looking for. It's not rocket science, and it didn't happen overnight, but the last two years or so have really identified this pursuit as a "real" segment of bike and equipment demand. I've noticed a pattern here on the forums as it pertains to most of the nay-sayers on this AM issue. They seem to fit 3 categories.

    The first group consists of true XC/lightweight minimalist types who feel you try to accomplish the task with the least amount of weight, machinery, and complexity.

    The second group is mainly the more extreme DH/FR crowd who feel no compromise should be made that infringes on strength, durability, and long travel.

    The last category mainly consists of people who are clueless about the technical aspects of bikes, equipment, and their useage to the extent that they are actually fearful of technology and the new capabilities that it brings. These folks usually avoid such new products and continue in their "comfort zone" of equipment and riding preferences.

    And you know what? All three of these categories are just fine. People have the right to remain within or move out of any category or style of riding and equipment that they desire. The irritating thing is when some of these folks rail on others for having the audacity to suggest that there may be something else...something better...available. History has shown us frequently, however, that this is not an unusual behavior.

    And Jug, your comment on the helmet issue may be the most obvious example of equipment not filling the gaps in MTB gear. There really is a desire on the part of many riders who want that compromise helmet that allows a rider to do aggressive trail/AM riding with much more protection but without the heat and heft of a DH helmet.

  5. #5
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    Aggressive XC < AM > Freeride Lite

    All this labeling is starting to wear on me as well. I don't have a problem with the term, so long as everyone agrees to stick with it and has a rough idea of the concept behind it.

    As a marketing ploy, it has some definite advantages, and you may be right that some manufacturers are just scheming away. Still, to call it the Race Face Atlas Trail Riding crankset just doesn't quite sound as definitive as All Mountain. That's me, and that's the one example I can think of where the term is applicable.

  6. #6
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    I think asking for AM specific parts and equipment is perfectly acceptible and makes sense. I am a clyde and I ride aggresively but like most people I don't want to haul around unwanted weight on my bike. I avoid stuff labeled XC but don't always want or need DH/FR burlyness. And that is where AM comes in. Too me this seems like a completely obvious and necessary niche but some people have a real problem with it.

    And yes a good AM helemt would be nice. A light weight, breathable full face (that doesn't need to be up to DH standards) is what I want. They just aren't made yet. But I am sure someone will come out with one soon. I just want to keep my teeth when I try a drop or jump 15 miles into a ride.
    The Revolution will not be motorized...especially at $5 per gallon.

  7. #7
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    A light weight, breathable full face (that doesn't need to be up to DH standards) is what I want. They just aren't made yet
    yes they are. http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...x?ModelID=2407



    this concept that all DH/FR parts are huge and heavy, and XC parts are all lightweight and fragile for racing only is a total bunch of BS. the complaints come because people want ALL of the big three: price, weight, and strength. problem is you only get 2.
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  8. #8
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    Too bad you can't get the MET Parachute in the USA. And I'm not importing something I can't try on....
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  9. #9
    conjoinicorned
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    and here's why...and also why some of these "AM" products you guys want will never happen



    "...MET have to ensure that their products pass the different safety standards that apply in the countries in which they are sold. MET helmets do not meet just one of these standards but all of them, whether it is Europe, Japan, or Australia, for instance. Nevertheless, we have noted that some court decisions about product liability in some countries, especially USA and Canada penalize manufacturers for damages that may be suffered by a consumer involved in an accident. This, sometimes, occurs regardless of the quality of the product, and the safety it actually provides. Moreover, judicial costs and attorney's fees are very burdensome in North America..."
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  10. #10
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    Ehh, if I was trolling I wouldn't use the happy faces. I don't think I'm nessecarily a naysayer but will grant you that I'm skeptical. I know this sh!t has been hashed out before but let's just say I'm bored and wanted an interesting discussion. I can appreciate the heavier rider or clydesdale needing more burly gear, can't argue that.

    I agree with Ferday who said, "this concept that all DH/FR parts are huge and heavy, and XC parts are all lightweight and fragile for racing only is a total bunch of BS. the complaints come because people want ALL of the big three: price, weight, and strength. problem is you only get 2." AM gear just seems like another ploy to get your cash, I get the attitude of riding up and enjoying the decent but isn't that what has been happening since the beginning of mountain biking?


    T- I get this, "And while people would take their XC bikes and put DH stuff on them, and some others would take their DH bikes and put XC stuff on them, all in an effort to achieve the bike that could do more of everything, obviously it wasn't the perfect solution. The AM issue is just based upon getting that bike and yes, even the gear, that accomplishes that best-of-both-worlds compromise that many are looking for." but this is also where I begin to laugh. There are soo many posts on here about what someone should use (ie. buy new) to ride AM. Instead of trying to figure out what new piece of AM bling to install I think you should just head out and ride. I'll add this and don't mean it to sound inflamitory, I don't think that the majority of riders out there ride hard enough to warrant it. I know there are some great riders who post here but I can't shake the feeling that there are alot of "DEW riders" out there who are more into the bling than the ride. Who the hell am I to say anything and in the end I really don't care, just my subjective thoughts.


    Your catagories are interesting and I probably fall into the first and third groups yet still feel that I've been AM riding since I've owned an adult MTB/ATB.


    So a specific AM helmet is needed? Full face but light? Personally, I couldn't imagine going out and doing an all day ride in any FF helmet, but again that's me.

    And hey, it's your cash in the end, not mine. Hope that wasn't sounding like a troll, just wunderin'.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    I know there are some great riders who post here but I can't shake the feeling that there are alot of "DEW riders" out there who are more into the bling than the ride.
    Hey! I represent that!

    I'm not so sure I agree completely with you on the "It's just biking!" line. Fifteen years ago it was just biking, and there wasn't that much difference between the components. Some bits broke, and you didn't buy those bits any more. Simple. Or you built your own stuff (the only wheel I ever built was with twisted spokes so that I wouldn't get so much lateral flex on my Manitou 2s; whatever anyone says about twisted spokes, I know that my wheel did help out with that flex). But FR/DH evolved and XC racing evolved. Trail riding borrowed from both. I do think there are trail bikes that approach riding from both ends of the spectrum. Now whether or not there is some magical AM spot right in the middle, I don't really know. I do think it can be useful to use the term AM so that a consumer knows what to expect. But--and I want to make this clear--I do agree with you that it can and has been taken to an extreme lately.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    So a specific AM helmet is needed? Full face but light? Personally, I couldn't imagine going out and doing an all day ride in any FF helmet, but again that's me.
    Who cares if someone decides they feel safer in a ff? Some people wear armor for light xc riding... shocking!!!

    There are soo many posts on here about what someone should use (ie. buy new) to ride AM. Instead of trying to figure out what new piece of AM bling to install I think you should just head out and ride.
    Some people are gearheads, some people just like the bling, some know very little about the bike they are riding... I've met riders who don't know how to adjust their own shocks, and some are capable of rebuilding shocks and building wheels. Its ok someone thinks different than you.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferday
    yes they are. http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...x?ModelID=2407



    this concept that all DH/FR parts are huge and heavy, and XC parts are all lightweight and fragile for racing only is a total bunch of BS. the complaints come because people want ALL of the big three: price, weight, and strength. problem is you only get 2.
    You are absolutely correct hear. But it is possible to have more than just 2 (cheap, light and strong). Why would someone want to pay big bucks for a lightweight, burly DH wheelset that they wouldn't use to their full potential when they could get one just as light but a little less strong but would suit there riding needs just fine. You don't always need the stongest DH part on the market. I don't care if you want to call the "medium" strength product "all mountain" or not but it is nice to have options other that XC or DH don't you think? And its nice when a manufacturer explicitly tells you what the intended purpose of the product is. Look at the Marizocchi classifications for thier forks.


    And yes I want all three (cheap, strong, and light) if I can have it. If not then I'd rather sacrifice a little in two or three of the categories then just buy the expensive, light and strong stuff. But that's just me, if someone wants to pay top dollar for light weight DH racing parts when they don't need them go ahead.
    The Revolution will not be motorized...especially at $5 per gallon.

  14. #14
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    Are you willing to pay the price for these? Just under a grand, these things are even better looking in person.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by KONA_in_SB
    You are absolutely correct hear. But it is possible to have more than just 2 (cheap, light and strong). Why would someone want to pay big bucks for a lightweight, burly DH wheelset that they wouldn't use to their full potential when they could get one just as light but a little less strong but would suit there riding needs just fine. You don't always need the stongest DH part on the market. I don't care if you want to call the "medium" strength product "all mountain" or not but it is nice to have options other that XC or DH don't you think? And its nice when a manufacturer explicitly tells you what the intended purpose of the product is. Look at the Marizocchi classifications for thier forks.


    And yes I want all three (cheap, strong, and light) if I can have it. If not then I'd rather sacrifice a little in two or three of the categories then just buy the expensive, light and strong stuff. But that's just me, if someone wants to pay top dollar for light weight DH racing parts when they don't need them go ahead.
    Yep, you can have all three. Lots of examples of parts that are not that expensive, but are fairly light compared to the freeride/dh alternative. Especially in the States, where there is so many on line shops offering stupid cheap parts.

    Hone and LX cranks: Light, stiff, strong and CHEAP.
    Race Face Atlas Cranks: Around the same weight as Hone/LX. Coming down in price.
    XT cranks: Light and strong enough with cheap e-deals everywhere.
    Blow out deals on Juicy 7 brakes.
    Thomson stems and seat posts are the best for strength and weight, with good deals all over the place.
    Numerous wheelsets that are not xc light or dh heavy for cheap. ie Dual Duty, Single tracks, Mavic XM 321 etc.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    shocking!!!



    Its ok someone thinks different than you.
    Dave- I'm not trolling here just having a discussion. If you feel threatened by this discussion I apologize. I understand that people do things differently and really Dave, it's ok by me. Hey buddy, here's a thumbs up for diversity!
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  17. #17
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    You don't always need the stongest DH part on the market. I don't care if you want to call the "medium" strength product "all mountain" or not but it is nice to have options other that XC or DH don't you think?
    i don't mean any offense at all, but i still don't understand why you think there is an issue.

    ALMOST ALL THE PARTS YOU CAN GET ARE ALL MOUNTAIN PARTS ALREADY.

    the XC racer parts and ultra heavy FR/DH parts are actually harder to find, and more $$$. almost all of the middle ground middle priced stuff is relatively cheap, relatively strong, and relatively light. as ronny mentioned, XT cranks for example. a lot easier and cheaper to find than say carbon XC cranks or 3-piece cro-mo FR cranks.


    i really just don't believe we need a new product niche.
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    Are you willing to pay the price for these? Just under a grand, these things are even better looking in person.
    I'd hope they're better looing in person, because IMO they're really freakin' ugly. Yuk.

    All this labeling is getting really old, really fast. I don't give a hoot what you call the way I ride. All that matters is I enjoy doing it. And there is absolutly no reason to buy a whole bunch of new gear because you percieved that you switched from one riding group to another. For one thing, those definitions are subjective BS, and whatsmore it is rediculous to buy ANYTHING just so that you "fit in" with others. I mostly ride what is considered to be an XC HT, while almost all of my riding buddies ride 5-6" travel FSs. We ride the same trails, but choose to approach them completly differently from a technological standpoint. Whatever. We all like riding our bikes. That's what's important.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    Ehh, if I was trolling I wouldn't use the happy faces. I don't think I'm nessecarily a naysayer but will grant you that I'm skeptical. I know this sh!t has been hashed out before but let's just say I'm bored and wanted an interesting discussion. I can appreciate the heavier rider or clydesdale needing more burly gear, can't argue that.

    I agree with Ferday who said, "this concept that all DH/FR parts are huge and heavy, and XC parts are all lightweight and fragile for racing only is a total bunch of BS. the complaints come because people want ALL of the big three: price, weight, and strength. problem is you only get 2." AM gear just seems like another ploy to get your cash, I get the attitude of riding up and enjoying the decent but isn't that what has been happening since the beginning of mountain biking?


    T- I get this, "And while people would take their XC bikes and put DH stuff on them, and some others would take their DH bikes and put XC stuff on them, all in an effort to achieve the bike that could do more of everything, obviously it wasn't the perfect solution. The AM issue is just based upon getting that bike and yes, even the gear, that accomplishes that best-of-both-worlds compromise that many are looking for." but this is also where I begin to laugh. There are soo many posts on here about what someone should use (ie. buy new) to ride AM. Instead of trying to figure out what new piece of AM bling to install I think you should just head out and ride. I'll add this and don't mean it to sound inflamitory, I don't think that the majority of riders out there ride hard enough to warrant it. I know there are some great riders who post here but I can't shake the feeling that there are alot of "DEW riders" out there who are more into the bling than the ride. Who the hell am I to say anything and in the end I really don't care, just my subjective thoughts.


    Your catagories are interesting and I probably fall into the first and third groups yet still feel that I've been AM riding since I've owned an adult MTB/ATB.


    So a specific AM helmet is needed? Full face but light? Personally, I couldn't imagine going out and doing an all day ride in any FF helmet, but again that's me.

    And hey, it's your cash in the end, not mine. Hope that wasn't sounding like a troll, just wunderin'.
    Yeah, yeah we all go out and ride. Some of us ride singlespeeds, others ride DH monsters, some ride super lightweight XC and some ride AM bikes. I take it you live in the US? So you will have noticed that marketing techniques are used to sell pretty much everything you ever buy, so why the surprise that AM bikes are marketed too?

    As far as people not riding hard enough to warrant their bikes, that just comes across as arrogant. You think everyone who buys a Ferrari or Porsche is up to driving it to it's full potential? Of course not. But they still enjoy driving them just the same.

    If you really don't like the concept of AM, why hang around here? Perhaps you are curious and wonder whether you should be considering AM bikes in the future? If so fair enough. Maybe you think AM is all a load of bollox and you feel the need to tell everyone? I guess that's ok too, but it seems a bit pointless. I happen to think rigid singlespeeds are a load of crap, but I don't go over to the singlespeed forum and tell them all. That would be very ignorant. From your posts it just seems like you're pissed that average ability riders are cruising around on expensive AM rigs when (in your opinion) they should be riding something cheaper and more in line with their ability. Is that right, or have I read you wrong?
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtails Are Better
    I'd hope they're better looing in person, because IMO they're really freakin' ugly. Yuk.

    All this labeling is getting really old, really fast. I don't give a hoot what you call the way I ride. All that matters is I enjoy doing it. And there is absolutly no reason to buy a whole bunch of new gear because you percieved that you switched from one riding group to another. For one thing, those definitions are subjective BS, and whatsmore it is rediculous to buy ANYTHING just so that you "fit in" with others. I mostly ride what is considered to be an XC HT, while almost all of my riding buddies ride 5-6" travel FSs. We ride the same trails, but choose to approach them completly differently from a technological standpoint. Whatever. We all like riding our bikes. That's what's important.
    My LBS was building up a bike with these wheels. A VP free with these wheels would cost how much? We're talking on the order of five grand. But this struck home just how far someone could go with conspicuous AM consumption.

    BTW: the frame was a matte black, and it did look really good with these wheels.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    My LBS was building up a bike with these wheels. A VP free with these wheels would cost how much? We're talking on the order of five grand. But this struck home just how far someone could go with conspicuous AM consumption.

    BTW: the frame was a matte black, and it did look really good with these wheels.
    Yeah, bikes can get really expensive.

    I havn't seen any of those wheels in person, but I'm not a fan of them cosmetically from pictures I've seen. But then again I thought the Nomads were ugly until I actually saw one. Those DTs look like really, really nice wheels, but they're still ugly.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtails Are Better
    Yeah, bikes can get really expensive.
    True, and theres no use worrying or complaining about those that can afford them. I'd love to build a bike, cost being no concern. There was a time in the past I could have, now I'm getting into debt going back to school. So if I need a new part, I look for value, and shop for price. It still achieves the objective of keeping my bike rolling

    I guess I can start on my "dream parts list" now so I'm ready when I get that high paying job

  23. #23
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    Parts is parts?

    Quote Originally Posted by ferday
    i don't mean any offense at all, but i still don't understand why you think there is an issue.

    ALMOST ALL THE PARTS YOU CAN GET ARE ALL MOUNTAIN PARTS ALREADY.

    the XC racer parts and ultra heavy FR/DH parts are actually harder to find, and more $$$. almost all of the middle ground middle priced stuff is relatively cheap, relatively strong, and relatively light. as ronny mentioned, XT cranks for example. a lot easier and cheaper to find than say carbon XC cranks or 3-piece cro-mo FR cranks.


    i really just don't believe we need a new product niche.
    LOL! No, I'm not suggesting that you mean that in an all-encompassing way. While I would agree with you that some parts categories are a lot closer together in terms of reliability and strength...cranks, chains, cassettes, and such...the AM niche, as you put it really has more focus on things like the frames, suspension, wheels, travel amount, etc. This is an area where that "niche" has had a meaningful impact. We now have long travel, extremely strong, forks that weigh well below 6 pounds. We have wheelsets that balance weight and strength much better...example: we used to have CrossMax and DeeMax, now we have CrossMax XLs...and there are other wheelset examples from other manufacturers. Frame manufacturers have also made more effective efforts to design and build frames that are stronger and lighter to accomodate harsher abuse with the ability to be built up easily in the 32-34 pound range with 6+ inches of travel. While some of this is normal progression, I don't believe there is any question that it has been much more accelerated with a focus on an identifiable category.

    Like I said above, I don't think it's rocket science. Whereas the bike industry has always seemed to focus on extremes...like DH/FR and XC...I think they kind of overlooked where most of us spend our time with our bikes...riding them in all kinds of varied situations. I guess it didn't make as exciting a magazine ad. Now their focus seems to have returned more to the center, and I think we have better bikes and components because of it.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtails Are Better
    Yeah, bikes can get really expensive.

    I havn't seen any of those wheels in person, but I'm not a fan of them cosmetically from pictures I've seen. But then again I thought the Nomads were ugly until I actually saw one. Those DTs look like really, really nice wheels, but they're still ugly.
    But hey, if you really don't like them in orange, you can get them in red!

    I was excited to see them in person after reading about DT's FR line. You should see the spokes; you absolutely must see them in person to understand them. They go to something like a 10 gauge at the hub, taper to 15, then back to 14 at the rim. I mean, they are HUGE at the hub. I can't see them flexing a mm.

  25. #25
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    I'm Confoosed

    What's the whole deal with Mt. Dew anyway?

  26. #26
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    You know the commercials.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtails Are Better
    What's the whole deal with Mt. Dew anyway?
    Mtn. Dew drinkers are extreme. Sky diving, dh mountain biking, grizzly bear wrestling... T

  27. #27
    conjoinicorned
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    are you even allowed to post on the hallowed All Mountain board if you don't "do the dew"?



    and for a hijack: ronny, are you even riding now?
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by uktrailmonster
    Yeah, yeah we all go out and ride. Some of us ride singlespeeds, others ride DH monsters, some ride super lightweight XC and some ride AM bikes. I take it you live in the US? So you will have noticed that marketing techniques are used to sell pretty much everything you ever buy, so why the surprise that AM bikes are marketed too?

    As far as people not riding hard enough to warrant their bikes, that just comes across as arrogant. You think everyone who buys a Ferrari or Porsche is up to driving it to it's full potential? Of course not. But they still enjoy driving them just the same.

    If you really don't like the concept of AM, why hang around here? Perhaps you are curious and wonder whether you should be considering AM bikes in the future? If so fair enough. Maybe you think AM is all a load of bollox and you feel the need to tell everyone? I guess that's ok too, but it seems a bit pointless. I happen to think rigid singlespeeds are a load of crap, but I don't go over to the singlespeed forum and tell them all. That would be very ignorant. From your posts it just seems like you're pissed that average ability riders are cruising around on expensive AM rigs when (in your opinion) they should be riding something cheaper and more in line with their ability. Is that right, or have I read you wrong?
    I ride bikes and enjoy them, so when the "latest greatest thing to come out" hits I enjoy learning about it. No, I don't always agree. If you don't like my posts ignore them, simple enough. I've tried hard not to come across as a troll, again if you feel threatened by what I'm asking sorry. Maybe if you went over to the SS forum you'd learn something new and even if you don't want to ride one learn something about them. Yes, I live in the States and get sick and F-ing tired of getting the "latest and greatest " shoved down my throat thus my original question. I feel the concept of AM is what riders have been doing for years on the equipment out there and so agree with Hardtails are Better when he states, "All this labeling is getting really old, really fast. I don't give a hoot what you call the way I ride... ...there is absolutly no reason to buy a whole bunch of new gear because you percieved that you switched from one riding group to another. For one thing, those definitions are subjective BS, and whatsmore it is rediculous to buy ANYTHING just so that you "fit in" with others" which, unfortunetely is how I see much of the AM thing.

    Perhaps my comment about "people not riding hard enough to warrant their bikes" does sound arrogant (by the way I laugh my a$$ off at the jokers driving Hummers around the mall parking lot w/o a speck of dirt on them as well, just my sense of humor I guess). Again sorry, just my opinion. Ignore it if you'd like. The comment comes from seeing AM rigs at the local loops that hardly warrent front suspension. Again, if that's what you'd like to ride fine by me but don't give me sh!t for asking about it. It seems to me many of you get defensive about what you ride when questioned about it, not my intention.

    Anyway, have a good. Here's a big anti-troll happy face just because...
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferday
    are you even allowed to post on the hallowed All Mountain board if you don't "do the dew"?
    Shhh..... You'll blow my cover!!!

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    All Mountain men drink Dew all the time. They ride a little, and then they shoot at each other and laugh. It's all good fun when you're all mountain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    I ride bikes and enjoy them, so when the "latest greatest thing to come out" hits I enjoy learning about it. No, I don't always agree. If you don't like my posts ignore them, simple enough. I've tried hard not to come across as a troll, again if you feel threatened by what I'm asking sorry. Maybe if you went over to the SS forum you'd learn something new and even if you don't want to ride one learn something about them. Yes, I live in the States and get sick and F-ing tired of getting the "latest and greatest " shoved down my throat thus my original question. I feel the concept of AM is what riders have been doing for years on the equipment out there and so agree with Hardtails are Better when he states, "All this labeling is getting really old, really fast. I don't give a hoot what you call the way I ride... ...there is absolutly no reason to buy a whole bunch of new gear because you percieved that you switched from one riding group to another. For one thing, those definitions are subjective BS, and whatsmore it is rediculous to buy ANYTHING just so that you "fit in" with others" which, unfortunetely is how I see much of the AM thing.

    Perhaps my comment about "people not riding hard enough to warrant their bikes" does sound arrogant (by the way I laugh my a$$ off at the jokers driving Hummers around the mall parking lot w/o a speck of dirt on them as well, just my sense of humor I guess). Again sorry, just my opinion. Ignore it if you'd like. The comment comes from seeing AM rigs at the local loops that hardly warrent front suspension. Again, if that's what you'd like to ride fine by me but don't give me sh!t for asking about it. It seems to me many of you get defensive about what you ride when questioned about it, not my intention.

    Anyway, have a good. Here's a big anti-troll happy face just because...
    It's not a matter of switching from one riding group to another or just buying new gear for the sake of it. It's more a case of the newer bikes and kit evolving to suit the market. Forks, shocks and frames have improved a lot over the last 10 years (regardless of the marketing BS, which I hate too) and it's now feasible to build a strong 30 lb, 6x6" travel rig that still pedals reasonably well. I still ride the same trails as before, but I find my current "AM" bike allows me to ride them with a slightly different approach. I now attack more aggressive lines on the downhills, take drops I never dared before, climb steeper more technical lines etc. I may have lost a little pace on the fireroad climbs, but I don't mind at all. Technology and efficiency (and lets face it the cost!) is not for everyone of course, some people prefer the purity and challenge of riding a HT or fully rigid. It's clear you don't agree with the whole AM concept, so why hang around this AM specific forum? Are you trying to convert us or just tell us we're idiots?
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronny
    Mtn. Dew drinkers are extreme. Sky diving, dh mountain biking, grizzly bear wrestling... T
    You forgot that they do (dew?) crazy flips in their cars to keep others from drinking their Mt. Dew.

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    Jugdish it sounds like

    (1) You're sick of advertising being shoved down your neck.
    (2) You ride on trails that don't need AM bikes.

    Maybe try turning off the TV and radio. It's worked for me - 14 years commercial free

    If you see people riding their AM bikes on trails that don't even need front suspension it could just be that it is their only bike.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

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    i have been lurking a bit in this forum. it seems to me that anyone who thinks there is actually an all mtn category of bicycles a really big tool. they are trail bikes. people have been searching for the holy grail (6x6 bike that pedals, dh's well and weighs under34lb) for 10 years. it aint nothing new. a new type of bike/riding has not been invented. there is no need to wear armor and full faces on trail rides.

    am is a title for riders who were really just trail riders hanging on the dh/freeride tip. gotta justify the existence with titles, categories, etc.

    you know the marlboro man is pretty cool. i think ill take up smoking. but i am going to rename it extreme tobacco inhalation.

    you are riding trail bikes. on trails. thats it. just like 1998. get over yourselves.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferday
    are you even allowed to post on the hallowed All Mountain board if you don't "do the dew"?



    and for a hijack: ronny, are you even riding now?
    I'm not doing the "dew" right now, because I am at work, just outside of Fort Mcmurray. I pull twelve hour shifts in a medical clinic, so I have time to surf the net when not dealing with patients. Even when I don't have a decent bike, my rigid cro-mo gets on the mellow trails, so I am always riding something, even if it is only to get a jug of milk.lol.

    My last days off, I got out a few times. I did Sulphur Springs, Moose Packers, and some Calgary trails, before selling my Pack. I know, I just got it a little while ago, but I got a sweet offer and now I am looking for another frame again. I am regretting it a little now, because I haven't been able to track down a similar deal that I got for the Pack. Bottom line is; too much time away from home and not enough riding. I am hoping to get out more in July and August.

    Any recommendations for a new frame? I am thinking Heckler to save some bucks. Also looking at the Chumba Evo, SC 4X, and Ventana X-5 again. I am a bike whore these days. It is fun trying new designs though. I am getting educated along the way.

  36. #36
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    Take it easy...Marlboro.

    Quote Originally Posted by dream4est
    i have been lurking a bit in this forum. it seems to me that anyone who thinks there is actually an all mtn category of bicycles a really big tool. they are trail bikes. people have been searching for the holy grail (6x6 bike that pedals, dh's well and weighs under34lb) for 10 years. it aint nothing new. a new type of bike/riding has not been invented. there is no need to wear armor and full faces on trail rides.

    am is a title for riders who were really just trail riders hanging on the dh/freeride tip. gotta justify the existence with titles, categories, etc.

    you know the marlboro man is pretty cool. i think ill take up smoking. but i am going to rename it extreme tobacco inhalation.

    you are riding trail bikes. on trails. thats it. just like 1998. get over yourselves.
    Yeah, the 6" trail bike has been around for a while, but it has only been in the last couple of years, where the longer travel trail bike has really taken off. I could care less what it is called. All mountain, trail bikes, light freeride. Who gives a Phock!! No skin off my back. People are having fun with it. AM is different things to different people, not just "trail riders who are hanging on the dh/freeride tip". You need to get over yourself if you have a problem with it. Just ride.

  37. #37
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    I think AM is a forum for those mountain bikers that just mountain bike, and want to discuss their mountain bikes. Sure, the preferred mountain bike today has evolved into a lighter, longer travel rig that can be pushed a little harder than the preferred bike of 10 years ago. But in the end “All Mountain” is just . . . mountain bikes and mountain biking.

    As dumb as I think these questions about the “best AM (insert component here)” are (and, yes, they are annoying), I think it is even more ridiculous that so many of you cynical nay-sayers continue to gripe about the creation of the All Mountain forum. DH’ers/Freeriders, DJ/Urban, XC-Racers, Singlespeeders, 29ers all have their own bike forum where they can communicate en mass about their bikes. What if you don’t fit into any of the above? General Discussion is a garbled mess of topics, Passion should be about PASSION (incorporating all types of inspiring, awesome riding). Hence, the creation of “All Mountain”.

    Maybe you critics would all be satisfied if this forum were called “General Discussion of non-DH/DJ/29er/SS/FR/Racer Mountain Bikes Forum”?!?!? It wasn’t, so get over it - cuz your snobbish elitism is not productive. “All Mountain” is a forum that has seen a lot of use in a short amount of time, and has people thinking and communicating. As a result, I consider it a success, as should everyone else.

    Ant

  38. #38
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    American Express is also All Mountain. I use AE to buy my AM Dew. Then I ride my orange Heckler all over Russia, and I don't have to worry when I lose my wallet. (Just out of curiousity, how many riders carry their wallets on rides? If you do, do you actually stick it in your pocket and not your camelbak?)

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dream4est
    there is no need to wear armor and full faces on trail rides.
    Some times it's better to have something and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by uktrailmonster
    It's clear you don't agree with the whole AM concept, so why hang around this AM specific forum? Are you trying to convert us or just tell us we're idiots?
    Perhaps you missed this: "I ride bikes and enjoy them, so when the "latest greatest thing to come out" hits I enjoy learning about it. No, I don't always agree. If you don't like my posts ignore them, simple enough. I've tried hard not to come across as a troll, again if you feel threatened by what I'm asking sorry." I've never said you're idiots, don't put words in my mouth.

    The funny thing is that I agree with the whole AM thing, the reason it's funny is cause I've been doing it since I first threw a leg over a mountain bike... almost 20 years ago. My original question dealt with AM specific gear. I can understand certain components having to be a bit burlier but the rest of it seems like a ploy to get your cash, thus my question.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    Jugdish it sounds like

    (1) You're sick of advertising being shoved down your neck.
    (2) You ride on trails that don't need AM bikes.

    Maybe try turning off the TV and radio. It's worked for me - 14 years commercial free

    If you see people riding their AM bikes on trails that don't even need front suspension it could just be that it is their only bike.

    (1) I haven't had a TV in 9+ years so I hear ya Brother. Radio, well that I can't give up. So yeah, I'm a bit cynical when it comes to advertising.

    (2) Where in Colorado do you ride? I'm @ 8000 feet, a bit west of the front range. I generally do weekday rides from my house on the trails up near Sourdough on the Freak2Freak. Weekends are wide open w/ friends. Walker Ranch is the last actual "front range" (or below 8000 feet) ride I've done and that was 2-3 weeks ago. So far this year I've ridden WP, Keystone, Fruita, Moab, Buffalo Creek, various other parts of the CT and probably some others I can't remember. Here's the question, what are some Colorado trails that you regularly ride that you deem AM? Again, just wondering.

    I understand the single bike thing. Hey, glad people are out riding and not sittin' on their arse but hell, I got questions and like answers so here I am.

    Out of curiosity (and don't want it lost in my rambling post), what are some Colorado trails that you regularly ride that you deem AM?
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
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  42. #42
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    As always, Dream...

    Quote Originally Posted by dream4est
    i have been lurking a bit in this forum. it seems to me that anyone who thinks there is actually an all mtn category of bicycles a really big tool. they are trail bikes. people have been searching for the holy grail (6x6 bike that pedals, dh's well and weighs under34lb) for 10 years. it aint nothing new. a new type of bike/riding has not been invented. there is no need to wear armor and full faces on trail rides.

    am is a title for riders who were really just trail riders hanging on the dh/freeride tip. gotta justify the existence with titles, categories, etc.

    you know the marlboro man is pretty cool. i think ill take up smoking. but i am going to rename it extreme tobacco inhalation.

    you are riding trail bikes. on trails. thats it. just like 1998. get over yourselves.
    You're the master of diplomacy when it comes to discussion. I think anyone who calls AM bikes a trail bike is a tool!...LOL!...well, obviously I don't think that because they are trail bikes. But they are now trail bikes that are way more capable than their counterparts of just 2-3 years ago. Whether driven by marketing, Mountain Dew commercials, or whatever, it has spurred manufacturers to more aggressively develop and market lighter, stronger frames, suspensions, and components that will allow one bike to do more. What it gets labeled isn't as important as what it accomplishes, and what it is accomplishing is a more focused effort on bikes that allow riders to do more on one bike than ever before. Now...if you don't like that statement, I'll slam your pinkies in the lid of my gold plated piano. (Other posters please note that the last statement is part of an on-going inside joke between myself and Dream4est, so don't be alarmed...I luv ya Dream ) Now...get thee back over to the DH/FR forum.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by dream4est
    i have been lurking a bit in this forum. it seems to me that anyone who thinks there is actually an all mtn category of bicycles a really big tool. they are trail bikes. people have been searching for the holy grail (6x6 bike that pedals, dh's well and weighs under34lb) for 10 years. it aint nothing new. a new type of bike/riding has not been invented. there is no need to wear armor and full faces on trail rides.

    am is a title for riders who were really just trail riders hanging on the dh/freeride tip. gotta justify the existence with titles, categories, etc.

    you know the marlboro man is pretty cool. i think ill take up smoking. but i am going to rename it extreme tobacco inhalation.

    you are riding trail bikes. on trails. thats it. just like 1998. get over yourselves.
    You can call it the "Trail bike 2006" category then if you like. Who gives a sh*t? 10 years ago it was hard to find a set of forks or a shock that even had hydraulic damping for fecks sake! No, a new type of bike has not been invented, just evolved like everything else.

    I used to consider myself a casual XC rider, still do really, but XC seems to be more about ultra light weight and racing these days. I used to ride with guys on lightweight HTs and 2" travel full sussers, but I found the whole racing thing tedious and they always seemed to avoid the more technically challenging trails. I've always been more into longer rides with technical sections, flowing singletrack, small drop-offs, jumps, fast downhills etc. The group I ride with now think in the same way and guess what, nearly all of us are on AM trailbikes with 5-6" travel. We've all had HTs and shorter travel FS rigs in the past, so we know the difference. We also tend to wear a bit of light armour too because these bikes allow higher speeds and tempt you into pushing your luck. I reckon I'm at least 50% quicker on the downhills now, so when it does inevitably go wrong I feel the need for a little more protection. Besides, I've seen plenty of guys on regular trails with some pretty nasty cuts and scrapes. If you think that's a bit gay I couldn't give a sh*t. Pop over to the Ventana board and check out any of Ventandan's threads and maybe you'll get some idea of what AM is all about. Those guys like to pedal the miles and have some fun along the way.
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    (1) I haven't had a TV in 9+ years so I hear ya Brother. Radio, well that I can't give up. So yeah, I'm a bit cynical when it comes to advertising.
    9 years! Good, stuff. The advertising now-a-days is just ridiculous on so many levels. I rather go to the dentist than listen to advertising . I'm Australian, so I come from a place that is a lot less commercial. Aussie just don't have the disposable income so our culture isn't as influenced my materialism.

    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    (2) Where in Colorado do you ride? I'm @ 8000 feet, a bit west of the front range. I generally do weekday rides from my house on the trails up near Sourdough on the Freak2Freak. Weekends are wide open w/ friends. Walker Ranch is the last actual "front range" (or below 8000 feet) ride I've done and that was 2-3 weeks ago. So far this year I've ridden WP, Keystone, Fruita, Moab, Buffalo Creek, various other parts of the CT and probably some others I can't remember. Here's the question, what are some Colorado trails that you regularly ride that you deem AM? Again, just wondering.

    I understand the single bike thing. Hey, glad people are out riding and not sittin' on their arse but hell, I got questions and like answers so here I am.

    Out of curiosity (and don't want it lost in my rambling post), what are some Colorado trails that you regularly ride that you deem AM?
    The way I look at it is this: you can ride just about any trail on any bike. However the experience is very different. For me I like to ride the DH like it's a race. Of course the race is off when I hit up hill traffic or blind corners etc. That is why I have a 6" travel "AM" bike with a 2.6" Gazzalodi tire at 17psi on the front and a 2.4 enduro pro (huge 2.4) on the rear. This thing is incredibly sure footed and huge fun to really ride race pace DH on the front range trails. I hardly have to pick a line, so I can carry most of my speed though corners and rock gardens. My frame and fork are very stiff and I run a steering damper so I don't get knocked off line. I love to try and push my tires to their traction limits in corners and feel them start to peel away. I tried, but I just couldn't ride like this on a lot of trail sections on my 4" travel (with 5" fork) XC bike (even with 2.35 Kenda Nev tires).

    I don't get hung up on definitions; I just know what works for me and what doesn't.

    As for specific trails - I ride the usual FR stuff. Dakota Ridge/Matty winters, White Ranch, Apex, Lookout, Golden Gate Canyon State Park, Bergen Peak, Buffalo and Aldefer/Three Sisters etc. When I can I love to take a trip down to Fruit and Moab. Now that the lifts are opening I'll be spending some weekends up at Winter Park, Vail and Keystone. Not to mention all the good stuff up at higher elevation!
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    9 years! Good, stuff. The advertising now-a-days is just ridiculous on so many levels. I rather go to the dentist than listen to advertising .
    No sh!t! The few times I'm in front of a tv these days I'm so damn amazed at how dumb advertisers must think the general public is it makes me want to puke! Kill your television, eh?!!

    As for the rest of your post, good stuff. I'll end there and go to lunch, have a good one...
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dream4est
    i have been lurking a bit in this forum. it seems to me that anyone who thinks there is actually an all mtn category of bicycles a really big tool. they are trail bikes. people have been searching for the holy grail (6x6 bike that pedals, dh's well and weighs under34lb) for 10 years. it aint nothing new. a new type of bike/riding has not been invented. there is no need to wear armor and full faces on trail rides.

    am is a title for riders who were really just trail riders hanging on the dh/freeride tip. gotta justify the existence with titles, categories, etc.

    you know the marlboro man is pretty cool. i think ill take up smoking. but i am going to rename it extreme tobacco inhalation.

    you are riding trail bikes. on trails. thats it. just like 1998. get over yourselves.
    You say trail bike, I say all maountain. What's the difference? All-mountain is just the name that stuck for these types of bikes and riding. I am more than happy to call my Coiler a trail bike (and did in fact do that before the AM category stuck) but AM is the name that appears to have stuck so I call it that.
    As for no need to wear armor, to each hif own I guess. But personally when I can hit a tech section at twice the speed I used to be able to do it on my XC hardtail then the consequences for a mistake are bigger so protection is nice. Also on a solid "trail bike" I feel more confident to try new lines and stunts so I am more likeely to crash and crash harder, again a little more protection is nice. That being said I usually don't wear any armour (expect a helemt and gloves) on 90 % of my rides.

    And as for today riding being like 1998. Come on, are you seriuos? I am not trying to insult you here but either you need to ride some new trails or get a new bike if you think the riding today is the same as in 1998. The idea might be the same but the terrian and equipment has changed drastically. There weren;t to many people riding ladders and teeter-totters and hitting 5 foot drops and a regular basis in 1998 (probably a few but not much). And there weren't to many 6" single crown forks, or peddle friendly full suspensions, or disc brakes back then either. Then again maybe you were do all that stuff and had all the equipment in 1998. If so then good for you, the rest of us had to wait for our equipment and our skills to catch up to you.

    The sport has evolved a lot and the extremes has been pushed further out and that left a whole niche to "rediscover" if you will in the middle, and the new middle (AM, trailriding, exetreme XC, light FR, whatever the fvck you want to call it) is not even close to where it was in 1998, equipment wise or terrian wise. But I will say that "trail bike" and "trail riding" is a better name then "all mountain" but at one point we have to agree on a term (that's how language works) and it appears that AM is the name that stuck.

    I think what might make some people mad about the AM term is that people buy a AM full suspension and then ride trails the are way too easy for there bikes. In that case i wouldn't call that AM riding, its just XC on a big bike. But if having 6" of travel is the only way people will get out on a trail (any trail) then I am all for it. We all don't have to "Do the Dew ".
    The Revolution will not be motorized...especially at $5 per gallon.

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    Great responses TNC(as usual) Uktrail and Antonio.

    But ... I still think OP is troll. And don't feed a troll
    I sick of peoples who sick of marketing and techno hype. Where you guys gets sick of it?
    Oh yes, right, last commercial on HBO where pushy, I almost run to LBS to order AM socks after it but have to keep splurging under control.

    I think it's time for internet personality analyst to tell what those folks realy mean.

  48. #48
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    F-it...
    Last edited by jugdish; 06-22-2006 at 12:56 PM.
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  49. #49
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    Any recommendations for a new frame? I am thinking Heckler to save some bucks. Also looking at the Chumba Evo, SC 4X, and Ventana X-5 again. I am a bike whore these days. It is fun trying new designs though. I am getting educated along the way

    the heckler is just damn nice. i'm also curious about the x-5, but not until next season at least and probably a couple more. i love trying all the new designs and stuff, but i lean towards the higher end (ie. ventana) these days. what do i work for after all...


    i'm in the mac all the time these days, do you take your bike up there with you? i heard there's some good trails, and one day some kids showed me their DJ's but i'm usually only there 3-4 days at a time.
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  50. #50
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    What about All-Mountain girlfriends? Which models are best? I'm a light rider, 6'0 150 lbs. Any help?

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim311
    What about All-Mountain girlfriends? Which models are best?
    Yes, models are best.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferday
    the heckler is just damn nice. i'm also curious about the x-5, but not until next season at least and probably a couple more. i love trying all the new designs and stuff, but i lean towards the higher end (ie. ventana) these days. what do i work for after all...


    i'm in the mac all the time these days, do you take your bike up there with you? i heard there's some good trails, and one day some kids showed me their DJ's but i'm usually only there 3-4 days at a time.
    I am staying at a camp S.E. of Ft Mac for two weeks at a time. I always fly in, so no biking for 14 days. I get almost two weeks off a month though. I could drive up, but it is a long haul and my vehicle is getting beat down.

  53. #53
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    That's a thread in itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim311
    What about All-Mountain girlfriends? Which models are best? I'm a light rider, 6'0 150 lbs. Any help?
    When I see Marla Streb, it makes me want to go out and buy things.

  54. #54
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    Idea!

    well i was hoping to get more flack than that. tnc didnt take the bait at all. smart shark.

    seriously my point was kinda hidden. 6" bikes ruin riders progression. todays short trav bikes can do ANYTHING an all-mtn light freeride frame can and do most tech stuff way better. i now ride a slalom bike everywhere (03 enduro sx with a 03 dj3- nothing special on the surface). i am becoming a much better rider all the time now. i follow dhers everywhere. i cant keep up speed wise but i can corner on a dime and climb and do drops, etc with ease. i sold my 6x6 bike to do this and will never go back. there is a reason people ride bikes like mine. they rule technically. i can drift all over now and rarely brake in corners just throw it around. i did pikes peak last week and thats a real all-mtn experience and my bike just killed it. the switchbacks were fierce and i was one foot drift railing and squaring out all of them. im selling my ht now too. i may even sell my trailbike too. the enduro sx is just too sweet not to ride.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    When I see Marla Streb, it makes me want to go out and buy things.
    Things? What things? ..... Ah I know! At your age - Viagra!
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    Things? What things? ..... Ah I know! At your age - Viagra!

    All-Mountain BURN!

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim311
    All-Mountain BURN!
    Well them fish just ain't biting today.....

    TNC - I was just joking about....
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  58. #58
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    I buy (literally) into the whole idea of All-Mountain. I let the marketing and the resulting UGI take control of my bank account not because it makes me a better cyclist, but because it's fun to build bikes! It's a "sport" unto itself. I love wrenching and maintaining my own bike. I love researching the latest, greatest thing, and I love experimenting with new bike parts. Is it a waste of money? - probably. But, and here's the point, it keeps me riding. I ride a lot more because I love my bike. I love the way it looks, how it rides and I love how I got to decide on literally every scrap. I love all the options technology give us, and I'm happy to spend my money to get the perfect part that suits me just right.

    I used to ride with a guy who was really opposed to the idea of All-Mountain. He used to get so pissed when I'd ask him his thoughts on bike gear. He would always come back with the response that rider skill tumps bike parts everytime. We got into a big argument when I told him how I thought the Maxel concept from RockShox was going to make the quick release disappear from the world of mountain biking eventually. Anyway, we don't ride together anymore, because he's kind of a dick; and because I don't think he even rides anymore.

    I don't think there's anything wrong with being a gear-whore... whatever keeps you on your bike after all can't be all bad.

  59. #59
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    Viagra? No way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    Well them fish just ain't biting today.....

    TNC - I was just joking about....
    Why in the heck do you think I've been riding these modern groove-relief saddles?...gotta protect the junk and its plumbing. I know...too much information.

    Been gone since Friday...otherwise I would have pecked out a scathing retort worthy of your attack on my manhood...but I'm too mellow right now.

  60. #60
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    i would have to agree jugdish on just about everything. AM is just mountain biking. before there were no such things as dh or freeride or xc. it was just mtb. i have been mountain biking for 19 years and remember bending numerous forks doing jumps and drops on my OG hardrock comp. i got into dh for a while and felt it was a waste of money to have a bike that i could only ride one place w/ in a 3 hour drive. i have constantly been on a quest to find that all around bike. my bike is not what most would say is "best" for AM, for best is an opinion. people constantly throw the word "best" around. better words would be "cool" or "quality." before even attempting to answer these questions, one must first define the terms used. i would suggest reading zen and the art of motorcycle maintainence to shed some light on what might be best. not trying to troll, just my opinion on the subject.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by washedup
    i would have to agree jugdish on just about everything. AM is just mountain biking. before there were no such things as dh or freeride or xc. it was just mtb. i have been mountain biking for 19 years and remember bending numerous forks doing jumps and drops on my OG hardrock comp. i got into dh for a while and felt it was a waste of money to have a bike that i could only ride one place w/ in a 3 hour drive. i have constantly been on a quest to find that all around bike. my bike is not what most would say is "best" for AM, for best is an opinion. people constantly throw the word "best" around. better words would be "cool" or "quality." before even attempting to answer these questions, one must first define the terms used. i would suggest reading zen and the art of motorcycle maintainence to shed some light on what might be best. not trying to troll, just my opinion on the subject.
    have you ever seen a "what is the best ????" thread end in concesus? They usually tend to spark debate and conversation. I don't think to many people read the "best ???" threads and actually believe they will find the best of anything. I read them to hear and consider others opinions on parts and bikes I can't afford to try. It is a forum afterall.
    The Revolution will not be motorized...especially at $5 per gallon.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by washedup
    i would have to agree jugdish on just about everything. AM is just mountain biking. before there were no such things as dh or freeride or xc. it was just mtb. i have been mountain biking for 19 years and remember bending numerous forks doing jumps and drops on my OG hardrock comp. i got into dh for a while and felt it was a waste of money to have a bike that i could only ride one place w/ in a 3 hour drive. i have constantly been on a quest to find that all around bike. my bike is not what most would say is "best" for AM, for best is an opinion. people constantly throw the word "best" around. better words would be "cool" or "quality." before even attempting to answer these questions, one must first define the terms used. i would suggest reading zen and the art of motorcycle maintainence to shed some light on what might be best. not trying to troll, just my opinion on the subject.
    Never seen anyone argue AM isn't just mountain biking. So are XC, DH, FR or whatever. They're all just mountain biking. Still doesn't do any harm to distinguish between the different types that have evolved over the years. Perhaps instead of AM, we could just call it "Mountain Biking"? So then you'd have XC, Mountain Biking, FR and DH categories. Would that make yourself and Jugdish more comfortable with the idea? Or do we all have to ride around on 15 year old "Mountain Bikes" to be taken seriously?
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by uktrailmonster
    Would that make yourself and Jugdish more comfortable with the idea? Or do we all have to ride around on 15 year old "Mountain Bikes" to be taken seriously?
    I'm comforable with it, just enjoy seeing how defensive you get about it.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  64. #64
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    no 15 year old bike here. i was simply stating that AM is what i consider "roots" riding. no excuses for not riding a certain terrain. i think its funny that people are making AM out to be this new style of riding. its been there the whole time.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by washedup
    no 15 year old bike here. i was simply stating that AM is what i consider "roots" riding. no excuses for not riding a certain terrain. i think its funny that people are making AM out to be this new style of riding. its been there the whole time.
    Ok, we'll call it "roots" then. Next time I go into the bike shop, I'll say I'm looking for a "roots" bike and see what happens
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  66. #66
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    come to my shop and ask for an AM specific bike. the owner would probably snicker and say "oh, you mean a mountain bike?" i personally think people limit themselves when saying i ride XC or freeride. ride it all and stop making excuses for sucking.

  67. #67
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    the usefulness of labels

    Quote Originally Posted by washedup
    come to my shop and ask for an AM specific bike. the owner would probably snicker and say "oh, you mean a mountain bike?" i personally think people limit themselves when saying i ride XC or freeride. ride it all and stop making excuses for sucking.
    at a bike shop -
    owner: so, what type of bike you looking for?
    me: a mountain bike.
    owner: so what type of trails do you ride?
    me: mountain bike trails.
    owner: are you aggressive, cross country, do you race, any drops?
    me: look, i don't want to limit myself, ok? I have no excuses for sucking. I just want a mountain bike.
    owner: a do-it-all kind of bike? let me show you our ROOTS bikes.


  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by washedup
    i think its funny that people are making AM out to be this new style of riding. its been there the whole time.
    Better hope that you're riding your AM bike in a different style than your XC bike. More travel, stiffer frame, fork and wheels. Longer wheelbase, slacker head angle, bigger more aggressive tires and 8" Rotor etc.

    I guess you could have made up something along those lines 7/8 years ago by building up a bullet with a 5" single crown fork etc, but it would be much more of a compromise on the climbs & flats than the purpose specific AM bikes we have now.

    The terrain may not have changed much, but the manner (or style) in which we ride that (XC) terrain has changed tremendously since the early MTBs.

    I mean you can run rally in a stock 73 Honda civic or a rally preped WRX.... it's all just driving right?
    Last edited by Steve71; 06-26-2006 at 11:26 AM.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  69. #69
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    washedup
    ... i have been mountain biking for 19 years and remember bending numerous forks doing jumps and drops on my OG hardrock comp. i got into dh for a while and felt it was a waste of money to have a bike that i could only ride one place w/ in a 3 hour drive
    Bingo!!! how about nice AM bike that can survive jumps and you can ride everywhere?
    You still can feel close to the "roots", but without screwing equipment, ist that cool?

    Well, back to the riding schedule again.

  70. #70
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    Well said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    Better hope that you're riding your AM bike in a different style than your XC bike. More travel, stiffer frame, fork and wheels. Longer wheelbase, slacker head angle, bigger more aggressive tires and 8" Rotor etc.

    I guess you could have made up something along those lines 7/8 years ago by building up a bullet with a 5" single crown fork etc, but it would be much more of a compromise on the climbs & flats than the purpose specific AM bikes we have now.

    The terrain may not have changed much, but the manner (or style) in which we ride that (XC) terrain has changed tremendously since the early MTBs.

    I mean you can run rally in a stock 73 Honda civic or a rally preped WRX.... it's all just driving right?
    Especially the part about the Honda and Subaru. The reluctance to acknowledge this category and the downright negativity voiced by some is a mystery to me. Why should anyone care?...unless someone is making you paint the letters "AM" in big, dayglo pink script on your personal bike. Oh...and Antonio's shop owner/customer conversation was priceless. Lots of fun and informative comments amongst this stuff.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by washedup
    come to my shop and ask for an AM specific bike. the owner would probably snicker and say "oh, you mean a mountain bike?".
    Is there only 1 type of mountain bike in your shop then?
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

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