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  1. #1
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    Adding a second shock doubles the value of a mtb, why?

    What I cannot get through my head is that I understand a bike with front shocks, disc brakes n good components costs above half a grand but I just cannot justify adding one more shock to raise the price of itself double the value. Ridiculous, car struts are cheap so why, why does a mtb with dual shocks cost 1k more?

  2. #2
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    Engineering.


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    Because it is a luxury item and rich people are willing to pay for high end components

    Check out the direct to consumer brands like YT and Canyon and you'll find more reasonable prices

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    I don't have any inside industry information, but these factors come to mind:

    Engineering R&D?
    Royalties to suspension designers (in some cases)?
    Additional components (shock, bearings, rocker, linkages)?
    Warranty costs (lifetime frame warranties cost something)?
    Relatively small customer base?
    Veni vidi velo!

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    Most hard tails now under $1k do not have full air forks, even the cheapest FS bikes come with full air forks. Example the least expensive new Giant HT with full air fork is the Fathom 2 at $1100, and a Giant Stance FS starts at $1530. So in essence you are paying $430 for linkage and a shock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmyk View Post
    What I cannot get through my head is that I understand a bike with front shocks, disc brakes n good components costs above half a grand but I just cannot justify adding one more shock to raise the price of itself double the value. Ridiculous, car struts are cheap so why, why does a mtb with dual shocks cost 1k more?
    Try Walmart?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thesmokingman View Post
    Try Walmart?
    I tried salvation army. I'll try Walmart or kmart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wacha Wacha Wacha View Post
    Engineering.

    Marketing.
    Do the math.

  9. #9
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    Simple manufacturing reasons: more research and development; more engineering; more tooling; more dies; etc. A die for small parts, can cost $10k alone. The frame on a hard tail is only one part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Marketing.
    Even better.


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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy G. Parrish View Post
    Simple manufacturing reasons: more research and development; more engineering; more tooling; more dies; etc. A die for small parts, can cost $10k alone. The frame on a hard tail is only one part.
    This is the reason. A full suspension frame has a lot of moving parts, axles, bearings, and a shock - just one. The front suspension is a fork.

    Because full suspension bikes are so superior for most riding conditions, most hardtail bikes only have entry level components. So that's often a cap on the cost of a hardtail while full suspension bikes have a lot higher end, better, more costly models.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    This is the reason. A full suspension frame has a lot of moving parts, axles, bearings, and a shock - just one. The front suspension is a fork.

    Because full suspension bikes are so superior for most riding conditions, most hardtail bikes only have entry level components. So that's often a cap on the cost of a hardtail while full suspension bikes have a lot higher end, better, more costly models.

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    Nailed it.
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  13. #13
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    You can get a road bike, with no shocks at all, for $10,000.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmyk View Post
    What I cannot get through my head is that I understand a bike with front shocks, disc brakes n good components costs above half a grand but I just cannot justify adding one more shock to raise the price of itself double the value. Ridiculous, car struts are cheap so why, why does a mtb with dual shocks cost 1k more?
    You're not going to be happy when you learn how often you have to service that rear shock! hint: It won't go 100k miles like the struts on your car.

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    Every 10 feet of trail, you have to get off the bike and fully service the suspension. The entire thing is a racket.

    My bike was only a few thousand bucks, and id pay it again. Actually, I have paid it again, and Ill likely do so in the future.

    Ive been here a long time, and over the years there has consistently been a stream of threads trying to justify the price of bikes or components. Its a hobby, none of us "need" this stuff. If you cant wrap your mind around the price, just don't buy it. Theres always a view point where this stuff isnt worth it. Theres always a view point that this stuff is probably worth more than we paid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    You're not going to be happy when you learn how often you have to service that rear shock! hint: It won't go 100k miles like the struts on your car.
    So, ppl are paying thousands of dollars to service the components after so long? That doesn't make sense. Should get what you pay for, like a good scooter is 2k and has ton of moving parts and for 2k, Genuine "brand" scooters come with 2 year warranty "maybe one" with road side assistance. ionno, I seen few bike in past few days up to around 6k :/, that's 3 scooters or 2 dirt bikes or one crotch rocket with plenty of moving parts.

    So yeah, 1k+ for a bicycle I can't justify it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmyk View Post
    What I cannot get through my head is that I understand a bike with front shocks, disc brakes n good components costs above half a grand but I just cannot justify adding one more shock to raise the price of itself double the value. Ridiculous, car struts are cheap so why, why does a mtb with dual shocks cost 1k more?
    Again, supply and demand. Not that difficult.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmyk View Post
    What I cannot get through my head is that I understand a bike with front shocks, disc brakes n good components costs above half a grand but I just cannot justify adding one more shock to raise the price of itself double the value. Ridiculous, car struts are cheap so why, why does a mtb with dual shocks cost 1k more?
    I know, right? I just took the shocks off my 1972 Chevy Impala and duct taped them to my Schwinn. It's so cool, I can even take it off some sweet jumps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmyk View Post
    So yeah, 1k+ for a bicycle I can't justify it.
    That's why Walmart still sells bikes. If there is a demand, manufacturers will make something for every consumer's price point. And that's ok.

    But don't try to understand what makes sense by projecting your own situation onto others. Some people are quite able to justify the cost of a mountainbike that costs in the high four figures. And some of those, if forced to ride a thousand-dollar bike, would give up riding altogether.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmyk View Post
    What I cannot get through my head is that I understand a bike with front shocks, disc brakes n good components costs above half a grand but I just cannot justify adding one more shock to raise the price of itself double the value. Ridiculous, car struts are cheap so why, why does a mtb with dual shocks cost 1k more?
    Make an offer for the bike with one of the wheels removed, maybe it will offset the cost of the 2nd shock?


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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmyk View Post
    So, ppl are paying thousands of dollars to service the components after so long? That doesn't make sense. Should get what you pay for, like a good scooter is 2k and has ton of moving parts and for 2k, Genuine "brand" scooters come with 2 year warranty "maybe one" with road side assistance. ionno, I seen few bike in past few days up to around 6k :/, that's 3 scooters or 2 dirt bikes or one crotch rocket with plenty of moving parts.

    So yeah, 1k+ for a bicycle I can't justify it.
    No, it isn't thousands of dollars. Fox recommends a service every 100 hours or once a year. It's about $350 for both front and rear. But imagine doing that every year.

    Gotta pay to play.

    Bicycling is not a poor man's sport. It's not just a rich man's sport, but it's not a poor man's sport, either.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    Bicycling is not a poor man's sport. It's not just a rich man's sport, but it's not a poor man's sport, either.
    The poor ride rigid SS, lol!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Picard
    You guys are useless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
    And some of those, if forced to ride a thousand-dollar bike, would give up riding altogether.
    I'm not so far gone that this applies to me, but... I just rode my 10yr old jalopy for a couple of hours while my 3yr old sweet bike was down, and did it suck.
    1st question for the OP, 'Picard, is that you?'
    oops I wasn't clipped in

  24. #24
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    If adding shocks to a bike freaks you out. Imagine how pissed off you will be when discover how much extra adding only 2 wheels to a motorcycle costs. Why are cars so expensive man???????.

    It's only 2 more wheels! Why? WHY!?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmyk View Post
    So, ppl are paying thousands of dollars to service the components after so long? That doesn't make sense. Should get what you pay for, like a good scooter is 2k and has ton of moving parts and for 2k, Genuine "brand" scooters come with 2 year warranty "maybe one" with road side assistance. ionno, I seen few bike in past few days up to around 6k :/, that's 3 scooters or 2 dirt bikes or one crotch rocket with plenty of moving parts.

    So yeah, 1k+ for a bicycle I can't justify it.
    This isn't really a fair assessment. This is 3 really crappy scooters, or 2 crappy dirt bikes. A name brand Vespa costs around $6k so a higher end bike is close to a Vespa as far as dollars go. A mid range honda dirt bike will cost you, what, $7-10K, again similar when you consider the scale, and a new $4k crotch rocket would be terrifying.

    The 3 scooters are the equivalent of the walmart mountain bike, a bike shaped object with none of the refinement, reliability or engineering that goes into a $4k bike. You get what you pay for in motor vehicles and bicycles.

    If cost is the object a lightly used hardtail bike will probably give you the best bang for your money followed by a more value oriented brand name for full suspension like a Diamondback or GT bike. You can usually get these with good suspension performance built for what you pay for a Santa Cruz or specialized frame. It is all in the perspective of what you want to pay, how you assess value and how you like to ride.

  26. #26
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    The price is a result of making things lightweight and solid feeling. People demand that there's minimal unwanted flex and that it goes fast. They want their ability to ride trails to be flattered. The pricey stuff sort of comes with the promise that you can ride faster, longer, and look good doing it.

    With many moving parts, most of the engineering comes down to improving tolerances. Bearings and axles need to fit perfectly. A solid performance-oriented fork might run you $400-750. A decent rear suspension adds at least that to the value.

    People seem willing to pay high prices due to some of the boutique/prestige behind things. It's like a bourgeois status symbol. Easy to get caught up in it when you see others around you doing it.

  27. #27
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    There's the old engineering rule of thumb working here too.


    Light, strong, cheap.


    You can only pick 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    This isn't really a fair assessment. This is 3 really crappy scooters, or 2 crappy dirt bikes. A name brand Vespa costs around $6k so a higher end bike is close to a Vespa as far as dollars go. A mid range honda dirt bike will cost you, what, $7-10K, again similar when you consider the scale, and a new $4k crotch rocket would be terrifying.

    The 3 scooters are the equivalent of the walmart mountain bike, a bike shaped object with none of the refinement, reliability or engineering that goes into a $4k bike. You get what you pay for in motor vehicles and bicycles.

    If cost is the object a lightly used hardtail bike will probably give you the best bang for your money followed by a more value oriented brand name for full suspension like a Diamondback or GT bike. You can usually get these with good suspension performance built for what you pay for a Santa Cruz or specialized frame. It is all in the perspective of what you want to pay, how you assess value and how you like to ride.
    Genuine and kymcos aren't cheap scooters, now if u want to compare cheap scooters to Walmart brand mtbs, then talk about taotao's chineese scooters.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmyk View Post
    why does a mtb with dual shocks cost 1k more?
    You're not comparing apples to apples. Why does a Nissan Frontier cost less than $19k, and a GMC Sierra cost over $70k? Both are pickups. Both have one motor, one steering wheel. There's obviously a lot more to it. Same with bikes. There's a lot more that comes with that "extra shock" on a full suspension bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredcook View Post
    You're not comparing apples to apples. Why does a Nissan Frontier cost less than $19k, and a GMC Sierra cost over $70k? Both are pickups. Both have one motor, one steering wheel. There's obviously a lot more to it. Same with bikes. There's a lot more that comes with that "extra shock" on a full suspension bike.
    You compared wrong. Its nissan frontier vs chevy colorodo which both are bout the same price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    No, it isn't thousands of dollars. Fox recommends a service every 100 hours or once a year. It's about $350 for both front and rear. But imagine doing that every year.
    Fox rebuild kit is about $20 for the rear, $25 for the fork.

    I don't know where people are going that they pay these sort of prices for a simple shock service, but you're getting boned.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmyk View Post
    You compared wrong. Its nissan frontier vs chevy colorodo which both are bout the same price.

    you missed the point. deliberately, or so it seems.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmyk View Post
    You compared wrong. Its nissan frontier vs chevy colorodo which both are bout the same price.
    Well, that was kinda my point (maybe didn't come across as I meant). If you're going to compare bike costs, compare a hard tail with a hard tail... not a hard tail with a full suspension... or a Frontier to a Colorado, not a Frontier to a Sierra. There's more to it than just a Frontier being a foot or so longer than a Sierra that makes the Sierra more than 3 times the cost. Just as there's more to it than just a extra shock to make the difference between a hard tail and a full suspension. Like some have said, not only more parts, more engineering, but in many cases, also higher level components for non suspension related stuff. And yes, there's the supply and demand factor... if people want it and they buy it at what ever price, the market will go that direction. I'd also venture to guess that, like auto makers, they will maybe break even on the less expensive models, and make up for it on the other end. But, I do get what you're saying. And I assume many feel the way you do since there's still a good demand for hard tails for reasons other than some people just like them better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Fox rebuild kit is about $20 for the rear, $25 for the fork.

    I don't know where people are going that they pay these sort of prices for a simple shock service, but you're getting boned.
    Push charges 125 for a shock rebuild, and 180 for a fork... so hes not that far off! No one really does quick fork oil changes. Thats a ~1 year service for a lot of guys, plus can and leg services in between.

    Thats an assload of service money. Enough that you could just skip it entirely, rag out your gear and fully replace it every few years instead.
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    What I want to know is, why do people pay $200 for a bowling ball? I mean, it's just a ball. Or how about $600 golf drivers? I mean seriously, it's a funny looking stick people.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    What I want to know is, why do people pay $200 for a bowling ball? I mean, it's just a ball. Or how about $600 golf drivers? I mean seriously, it's a funny looking stick people.
    ... or $600 for a mobile phone that you have to replace in 2 years because the battery no longer holds a charge and you can't swap its $15 battery...
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Push charges 125 for a shock rebuild, and 180 for a fork... so hes not that far off! No one really does quick fork oil changes. Thats a ~1 year service for a lot of guys, plus can and leg services in between.
    Oh, I'm sure people charge it, I just can't believe people pay it!
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  38. #38
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    If you don't want to pay for a decent bike then fine. Do your thing. Just don't take it down any real trails or wonder why your friends on decent bikes don't have to replace parts constantly.

    Also suspension service.... I am my own wrench. It's fun and more importantly I'm too poor/cheap to pay for it. It's not hard. Some special tools needed but I did my own seal, oil change, and service rebuild on my xc bike fork a bit ago. YouTube ftw and a bit of problem solving until you get it work wonders.

    Nothing at all against bike shops or service centers but if I can do it myself I will. Anyone can learn it.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Fox rebuild kit is about $20 for the rear, $25 for the fork.

    I don't know where people are going that they pay these sort of prices for a simple shock service, but you're getting boned.
    You think a guy complaining about how expensive fs are is going to disassemble his rear shock on his kitchen table? lol

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    You think a guy complaining about how expensive fs are is going to disassemble his rear shock on his kitchen table? lol
    Good point!
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