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  1. #1
    Kiwi that Flew
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    2x10 or Twin and Bash?

    I need some advice from those in the know

    I'm planning on updating my gearing on my DW 5Spot to either 2x10 or twin and bash. I'm not sure which is best for the sort of riding I do. I know all about gear ratios etc so my question is really about whether 2x10 with a chain device will be as good as a twin and bash with a chain device.

    When I was in the Alps Morzine, LesGets, Chattel - I noticed that I never really need the big ring so thats were the idea for the bash comes from. Thought the bash would also help keep the chain from bouncing off so much especially if I add a stinger e.g.

    Are riders running 2x10 (with no bash) in the Alps?

    I'm thinking of going 24.36.bash front and a 34-11 cassette or 26.38.bash front and a 36-11 cassette. I currently have 22.32.44 and a 32-11 cassette.

    When you ride a twin and bash do you spend most of your time in the big ring, kind like with you ride a 22.32.44 ?

    Sorry this post is all over the place...:skip:

  2. #2
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    Hy there,

    I just upgraded my Ibis Mojo from 3X9 (44-32-22 / 11/34) to 2X9 with bash and chain tensioner.

    I am sort of light, 170lbs geared, and my bike is around 27 lbs right now, but I do massive steep climbs with her.

    I kept my 11-34 cassette and initially tried the 38/26 up front. Well, it was too big for my climbs.

    Then I went with 36/24 and it seems to be the perfect spot. However, I am not having much time to train, and after climbed one of the toughest hill last week, I decided to go even lower; 36/22.

    Either with 36/24 and 36/22 It was a huge improvement for my ride/bike. I was only using the 44 ring to tension the chain in the DHs, so I never missed it since I took it away from my cranks.

    Now, I find myself basically using the 36 up front, and playing a lot with the cassette rings at the back. When its time for a big climb, I drop to the 24 ring.

    On the way down, the chain tensioner does a great job, preventing the chain to slap everywhere. And since i started using the bash, i never had a chain-drop again; so I believe it does make a great job on my bike for that issue.
    And even going down on the fire road at speed, I never missed the 44 ring; the 36/11 combo makes a great job as well.

    Sometimes I want to take the bash off, as I hardly hit anything there, but I keep thinking about the chain-drop, and just decided to keep it there.

    I plan to upgrade to a 2X10 complete drive train, but not within a year. Until there, I leave it the way it is.

    Rgds,

    Ed

  3. #3
    Axe
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    Bash, for safety reasons. Those cuts when a big ring lands on you are nasty.

  4. #4
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    Yeah, very well said Axe.

    I already have 7 stiches on my right calf for that.

    That another very good reason to use a bash.

  5. #5
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    i have 2x9 with bash... its good, but i really wish i had a tensioner... no ISCG tabs though

  6. #6
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    One of the main differences between a 2x crank and a crank with two rings and a bash guard is the chain line. Every two ring crank with bash guard I have seen is basically a 3x system without the third ring, so with a 2x system you get a way better chain line/shifting because the chain rings can be placed in a position that causes less cross chaining.

  7. #7
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    As long as you realign the FD you should be able to avoid much cross chaining. My 3x10 converted to 2x10 with bash works pretty well. The only cross chaining I get is when I pop it into the small ring and the smallest ring on the casette. I only use the small for climbing anyway so it hasn't been an issue.

  8. #8
    Kiwi that Flew
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    Thanks for you responses

    Thanks All for your responses. This is completely new ground for me and none of my mates have either 2x10 or twin and bash's..

    Thnaks again

    DeanoP

  9. #9
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    Sram just had a demo day locally, and their specific purpose for this demo day was to show off their 2x10 gearing. Basically, there is no cross chaining issue with a 2x10 at all. Also, the rep said there's a way with the XX system to also run a bash guard. I didn't pay much attention to the details because I'm not really interested in changing my drive train at the moment. So you can go 2x10 with a bashguard. Have your cake and eat it, too. I'd probably go 2x10 if I was in the market, though. They rode really nice. They are really responsive and can shif under load much better. It think it's pretty good stuff from what I tried, but I only demoed for about an hour. That said, I definitely don't want to give up my bashguard/guide combo, so I'd go with whatever option they have there with the 2x10.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim-H View Post
    As long as you realign the FD you should be able to avoid much cross chaining. My 3x10 converted to 2x10 with bash works pretty well. The only cross chaining I get is when I pop it into the small ring and the smallest ring on the casette. I only use the small for climbing anyway so it hasn't been an issue.
    It has nothing to do with the alignment of the front derailuer. It's the physical positioning of the cainrings spacing and side to side location of the chainrings compared to the cassette that makes the difference in cross chaining.

  11. #11
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    Then there's really no issue at all. Still it runs and shifts just fine. No grinding hopping skipping or popping. I not sure why you've had issues. Like I said though I never use the small ring for more than climbing. Hasn't been an issue at all on any of my bikes that I converted.

    The R, they're probably talking about this type of bash guard, which is great for sliding over logs and all but not a bash ring at all. Still lots of exposed teeth to to their damage.


  12. #12
    bike rider
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    Lightning makes a spider with double ring spacing (proper chainline) that can take a bashring. I use it with 26/36, 11-34, and E13 DRS bashguide. Good gearing for riding but for racing I could use 27/38 rings.

    I was told that there's a Shimano SLX crank with double spacing and bash but I didn't check.
    Keep the Country country.

  13. #13
    Kiwi that Flew
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    Almost know what to dooooo

    I just wrote a really long post thanks all for posts and blooody closed the window on accident EEEERRRR..

    The chain line thing is what I cam struggling with the most. With a 36 large on the front I will be dropping down on to the granny more that I do at the moment - so I like the sound of the 2x10 for the reason that they are both optimised for better alignment. Cake and eat in time - 2x10 with bash would be good.

    I see that sram have released this guard thing, so maybe this would help the chain stay on (??).

    Edu Guilhon You post on gearing was really useful. Much appreciated.

    Cheers

    Deanop
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2x10 or Twin and Bash?-1311326203691-18levnrcycdit-670-75.jpg  


  14. #14
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanopatoni View Post
    The chain line thing is what I cam struggling with the most. With a 36 large on the front I will be dropping down on to the granny more that I do at the moment - so I like the sound of the 2x10 for the reason that they are both optimised for better alignment.
    I think that factor is a bit overrated. Think about it - actual difference in the chain angle is affected by the position of a front ring in exactly the same way as by a rear one. Having front ring 3mm off is what, half a rear gear worth a difference at the most?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    I think that factor is a bit overrated. Think about it - actual difference in the chain angle is affected by the position of a front ring in exactly the same way as by a rear one. Having front ring 3mm off is what, half a rear gear worth a difference at the most?
    Every mm counts, because every mm adds more drag to the drivetrain... Which robs you of power.

    The 3mm up front or how ever much it works out to be, makes the chain line better across all of the gears. So the benefits aren't really negated as soon as you change up or down one gear... If that's what you where trying to say?

  16. #16
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    Here's a good article on chain line http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainline.html

  17. #17
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    for 2x10 setup, I would recommend 36-24T for cranks.
    yes I do spent most of time on the 36, but when I need to climb a steep hill, 24T with 34T cog will do everything. (for me)

  18. #18
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    i run x9 2x10 on my 09 KHS Velvet...i really dont think 10 speed has a place in mtn bikes but if you are riding AM i would go bash on everything just for personal safety and the fact that i like being able to use my legs. Slipping a pedal and having a chainring in my leg doesn't sound too pleasant.

    thats my 2 cents
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  19. #19
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcvpr View Post
    The 3mm up front or how ever much it works out to be, makes the chain line better across all of the gears. So the benefits aren't really negated as soon as you change up or down one gear... If that's what you where trying to say?
    I am saying that adjusting the front chainline only matters much for the smallest and largest gear. Across the rest - some will align better, some worse, not a big deal at all. Geometry.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcvpr View Post
    Here's a good article on chain line http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainline.html
    Did you read it? It says:
    "Correct" chainline for a derailer system is a matter of opinion, and depends on the intended use of the bicycle.
    When you use most of the rear cassette, front cog chainline is not nearly as important as with a single speed application. Most of the time it is not perfect anyway.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    I am saying that adjusting the front chainline only matters much for the smallest and largest gear. Across the rest - some will align better, some worse, not a big deal at all. Geometry.



    Did you read it? It says:


    When you use most of the rear cassette, front cog chainline is not nearly as important as with a single speed application. Most of the time it is not perfect anyway.
    Agree to disagree...? :-)

  21. #21
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    Sorted - going for Twin & Bash now!

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    When you use most of the rear cassette, front cog chainline is not nearly as important as with a single speed application. Most of the time it is not perfect anyway.
    When I think about this it does make sense to me. Like someone has said - the chainline thing is a non issue.

    Will go Twin&Bash 24/36 front and 36/11 rear

    Now next question Sram or Shimano cassete ??? See the difference below

    Shimano - 11 13 15 17 19 21 24 28 32 36
    Sram - 11 12 14 16 18 21 24 28 32 36

    Sram or Shimano shifters and derailleurs??

  22. #22
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    I like Sram because I've beat the hell out of it and it's never let me down. Don't have experience running shimano. Yeah, people love them too, I just never felt the urge or need to buy.

  23. #23
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    24 ring/36 cog is too low to be usable. Get a 26t ring. I think 26 ring/34 cog is plenty low and if I'd gone 10spd with a 36t cog I was gonna use 27&38 rings.
    Keep the Country country.

  24. #24
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanopatoni View Post
    Now next question Sram or Shimano cassete ??? See the difference below

    Shimano - 11 13 15 17 19 21 24 28 32 36
    Sram - 11 12 14 16 18 21 24 28 32 36

    Sram or Shimano shifters and derailleurs??
    I think Shimano cassettes are typically lighter and shift better for the price. SLX got to be the best deal in the midrange. As far as derailler/shifter - I think it is mostly the matter of your preferred ergonomics of the shifter. My hands prefer Shimano, and I think that Shadow derailler is a tad better protected. Older arguments about spring rate, cable pull, ease of adjustment, durability are not as relevant with the 10sp generation - Shimano switched to a lower cable pull ratio. I have switched to Shimano after the "Shadow" redesign, do not regret..

  25. #25
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcvpr View Post
    Agree to disagree...? :-)
    "Correct" chainline for a derailer system is a matter of opinion.

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