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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    this whole thread makes me want to buy a bighit with a 24" rear wheel.
    Man, I'm still running 24x2.75 in the rear on my POS KHS! Retro is super cool!Is 26er a dying breed?-546798_4173686233745_1702777860_n.jpg

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    World champion is on 650b. But I, for one, truly, deeply do not care what pro's run. I ain't frigging racing the clock every time out.

    No racers ride fatbikes, but they are fun and getting popular. It is not about racing.
    If more people could remember this, we'd have a lot less multi-thousand dollar (target marketing) bikes

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by vw_steggie View Post
    Man, I'm still running 24x2.75 in the rear on my POS KHS! Retro is super cool!Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBrewing View Post
    But they do have lots of AM and XC tires in 26" flavor! As for there being "more money" in other tire sizes...how do you figure? The majority of the market is still in 26" wheels, even though the other sizes are gaining in popularity.
    I would guess expanding the line to the other wheel sizes has to cut into their available resources, meaning they can't continue all the other tires and introduce new ones as well. It's just unfortunate for me that the ones they cut were the ones I like. With the exception of the Mutano 2.5, everything else they make for 26" now is 2.35 or smaller.

    I also wonder if they changed something in their manufacturing process - I've never completely destroyed a set of tires like the Bronson 2.35's I tried last year.
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  5. #105
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    Re: Is 26er a dying breed?

    Unless they find a way to manufacture a wheel as strong as a 26 and keep a wheelbase and slack angles on par with the 26in bikes....not ever going away. I still say it's personal preferences like feel or confidence (which can sometimes be the same).




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  6. #106
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    Re: Is 26er a dying breed?

    No.

  7. #107
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    People, in general, do and will always care alot about what others think. It's a kinda stupid way to justify their own choice instead of looking into their own soul and the core out riding (the happiness). It's the beauty of it all, it's all up to us! Personally I wouldn't want a 29er because I'm pretty tiny and thus ride smaller bikes. So a small frame and giant wheels look stupid and feels wrong, unbalanced, etc. Shallow (and also stupid) yes, maybe, but it's part of what makes me happy riding.

    So here we go: FS 26er FTW!111one!

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simpledesign View Post
    Unless they find a way to manufa
    cture a wheel as strong as a 26 and keep a wheelbase and slack angles on par with the 26in bikes....not ever going away. I still say it's personal preferences like feel or confidence (which can sometimes be the same).




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    Totally agree with this poster for me it's like riding a 250 dirt bike when you can't whipp the thing around.... I've seen 125s smoke 250s on the track because guys were getting ridden by the bike instead of them riding the bike what's all the extra hp do when u can't feel comfortable riding

  9. #109
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    Good job! Re: Is 26er a dying breed?

    I've been riding actively since 2010. I've tried 29er and 650b. Everytime I tried these big wheel sizes, I end up buying a new bike but in 26. LOL

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    All in 26er and I'm looking into buying another bike and yes, it's another 26er. I don't think this 650b will kill the 26 market.
    Last edited by Tjay; 02-17-2013 at 02:39 PM.

  10. #110
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    I race XC on 29ers. They are super fast. But big wheels are inherently weaker and flexier than the smaller counterparts.

    I hope to sell my SS 29er and build an On One 456 or Blue Pig with a 140-150mm fork to have more fun on.
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  11. #111
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    i think very tall persons will find a 29er easier to handle , no ?

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by DimGR View Post
    i think very tall persons will find a 29er easier to handle , no ?
    I'm 6' 3" tall, and I prefer 26ers to 29ers, although my newly converted 650b Superlight is absolutely awesome...

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by DimGR View Post
    i think very tall persons will find a 29er easier to handle , no ?
    It is easier to make a well fitting 29r for a tall person. Handling would more of a question of fit and geometry, before the wheel size.

  14. #114
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    It is here, because all the 26 riders are out repairing the muddy trails the dumba$$ 29 morons ride to prove how good they are. You're not good - you are a $hit rider or you'd be somewhere else when the trails are at risk

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise View Post
    It is here, because all the 26 riders are out repairing the muddy trails the dumba$$ 29 morons ride to prove how good they are. You're not good - you are a $hit rider or you'd be somewhere else when the trails are at risk
    Wow...I hope you enjoy riding more than being on the internet.

    I have 2 29ers because that's what the LBS recommended for the trails I intend to ride (original plan was a 26" for my second bike). I do work on my skills as I am a new rider so no, I'm not great and haven't made that claim. Lastly I do go out and help with trail building and make sure I am not damaging a trail just because I could go out and ride. We aren't all jacka$$ess trying to catch 3 feet of air and acting like we just won Rampage. I really hope that you aren't so jaded to 29ers that you can't enjoy a ride if you pass one.
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  16. #116
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    I love my 29er but still ride my 26er. One disadvantage to the 29er is highly technical rocky climbs. I do not have the ability to pull up the front tire as easy on the 29er as I do on the 26er. The 29er seems more planted and sure on the single track and tracks well over roots and rocks at speed but when you need to hop up rocks and are in very tight rock gardens there is nothing like a 26er.

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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simpledesign View Post
    Wow...I hope you enjoy riding more than being on the internet.

    I have 2 29ers because that's what the LBS recommended for the trails I intend to ride (original plan was a 26" for my second bike). I do work on my skills as I am a new rider so no, I'm not great and haven't made that claim. Lastly I do go out and help with trail building and make sure I am not damaging a trail just because I could go out and ride. We aren't all jacka$$ess trying to catch 3 feet of air and acting like we just won Rampage. I really hope that you aren't so jaded to 29ers that you can't enjoy a ride if you pass one.
    It was tongue in cheek, but based on fact in this area. I am jaded with nothing to do with MTB.

  18. #118
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    I think once the larger companies pick up on the 650B fad, then it will really take off. I've talked to a Specialized rep and he told me that they're going to wait a little bit longer to see where it goes and if it dies out. Once companies like Specialized, Giant, Trek and Cannondale (among others) start to produce 650Bs, I think its going to remain pretty unknown to the average biker who doesn't have $3K-$5K to spend on an Intense Tracer or a Norco Range Killer. If a 650B comes out for $1000 or less, then I can see it taking off. And even when/if it does take off, I don't see 26ers going anywhere. I think 26ers have a tremendously loyal fan base of riders...like me.

  19. #119
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    Is 26er a dying breed?

    Fuel on the fire:


    http://reviews.mtbr.com/26er-or-29er...the-old-pueblo



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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    "The 26er is not dead, it just smells funny." Best line haha!

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    I was surprised 26 delivered better times during an xc race like that. It does makes sense though: smaller wheels take less energy to turn over in addition to being lighter, stiffer, and more agile.

  22. #122
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    I guess I'm just old school and like the way a 26" wheel looks. 29" just looks strange to me.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakester View Post
    I think 26ers have a tremendously loyal fan base of riders...like me.
    8sp had a loyal base of riders.

  24. #124
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    What does AM mean for wheels? I cannot find mentioned in the usual areas.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmccurdy View Post
    What does AM mean for wheels? I cannot find mentioned in the usual areas.
    it means too heavy for XC and too wimpy for DH/freeride

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    it means too heavy for XC and too wimpy for DH/freeride
    Exactly. You know, what most people do.

  27. #127
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    Let me see if I can word this to fit what I mean so somebody can understand.
    If you see bike the "different" bike types for what they are...(different from one another)...and don't compare the "differences"...(just ride and enjoy the differences)..., you can enjoy them that way.
    when you begin to compare the differences...and prefer one over another,that's when one type might "die".
    ...in other words...it's all in the way you perceive the bikes.
    and yeah- sorry if this doesn't make sense. LOL
    Personally I like 'em all.
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  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    Exactly. You know, what most people do.
    What? What is it that most people do?.... 5 foot drops? Rollers? Square edge climbs?... the "Officail diffeniniton" hardley describes any sort of riding.... so what is an all mountain wheel set? It has to be defined by what it is not for. To weak for dh to heavy for xc..... PS everyone has thier own ideas on how low they want to set the bar for xc..... so in an effort to prop them selves up they talk down XC because by defintion the less xc encompases the more all mountain will include.... ill leave it to the experts where xc ends and all mountain begins

  29. #129
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    Is 26er a dying breed?

    Quote Originally Posted by zarr View Post
    Let me see if I can word this to fit what I mean so somebody can understand.
    If you see bike the "different" bike types for what they are...(different from one another)...and don't compare the "differences"...(just ride and enjoy the differences)..., you can enjoy them that way.
    when you begin to compare the differences...and prefer one over another,that's when one type might "die".
    ...in other words...it's all in the way you perceive the bikes.
    and yeah- sorry if this doesn't make sense. LOL
    Personally I like 'em all.
    Sorry can't resist:

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  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    What? What is it that most people do?.... 5 foot drops? Rollers? Square edge climbs?... the "Officail diffeniniton" hardley describes any sort of riding.... so what is an all mountain wheel set? It has to be defined by what it is not for. To weak for dh to heavy for xc..... PS everyone has thier own ideas on how low they want to set the bar for xc..... so in an effort to prop them selves up they talk down XC because by defintion the less xc encompases the more all mountain will include.... ill leave it to the experts where xc ends and all mountain begins
    Speak English? Why leave it up to the experts. It's your bike. You define how you use it. Also, I say that the average person rides harder than the cross-country rider and easier than a downhill racer, so yeah. Somewhere in the middle. Maybe not in the 5 foot drop or 20 foot gap area so much, but definitely somewhere in the middle. I don't know if I understood your rant or not, but whatever.

  31. #131
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    not sure what its like in murica but here in the uk 29ers are still very much a niche product apart from at xc races and 650b is almost non existant, ive never seen a tyre in the flesh at a shop let alone a whole bike. at a guess i'd say the 26" wheeled bikes outnumber the big wheelers on the trails by at least 50-1. I think its partly because of the type of riding here in the UK and partly because we tend to be far less prone to fall for the marketing hype.

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by b45her View Post
    at a guess i'd say the 26" wheeled bikes outnumber the big wheelers on the trails by at least 50-1.
    That's progress. Last time I was there it was like half of pennyfarthings.

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    Speak English? Why leave it up to the experts. It's your bike. You define how you use it. Also, I say that the average person rides harder than the cross-country rider and easier than a downhill racer, so yeah. Somewhere in the middle. Maybe not in the 5 foot drop or 20 foot gap area so much, but definitely somewhere in the middle. I don't know if I understood your rant or not, but whatever.
    Where is the line between XC and "all mountain" ? I have a feeling some(you), would like to think an XC trail is just a dirt path. So an all mountain trail is a dirt path with a rock in the middle?

  34. #134
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    Is 26er a dying breed?

    Quote Originally Posted by b45her View Post
    because we tend to be far less prone to fall for the marketing hype.
    Oh be quiet. I know lots of dumb Brits. This is a country who made a frog based ring tone a national phenomenon. Make your reasons, but saying your entire country is just above it all is silly.

  35. #135
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    Is 26er a dying breed?

    Quote Originally Posted by b45her View Post
    not sure what its like in murica but here in the uk 29ers are still very much a niche product apart from at xc races and 650b is almost non existant, ive never seen a tyre in the flesh at a shop let alone a whole bike. at a guess i'd say the 26" wheeled bikes outnumber the big wheelers on the trails by at least 50-1. I think its partly because of the type of riding here in the UK and partly because we tend to be far less prone to fall for the marketing hype.
    Hey, Mate. Love the UK and a mtb trip there is on my bucket list.

    But:

    1. This guy is a Yank, and makes the pro 26" argument on his bike:

    http://m.vitalmtb.com/videos/feature...le+Feedfetcher

    2. 29" dominates the market on this side of the pond. Maybe it's because Yanks are tall? It's not marketing hype.
    If the bikes didn't perform, how could they dominate? Hype only goes so far.

    3. As far as 650b - which I prefer - this German bike is cutting edge, and hard to get in the States. Many UK shops carry it.

    http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Cube-Stereo-...-MTB_58146.htm

    If you blokes aren't going to buy it, can you please ship it over? Looks tasty to
    me.


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    Last edited by dwt; 03-12-2013 at 06:57 AM.
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  36. #136
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    maybe an anthropologist will save our dying culture before it is too late

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Hey, Mate. Love the UK and a mtb trip there is on my bucket list.

    But:

    1. This guy is a Yank, and makes the pro 26" argument on his bike:

    Vital MTB | Mountain Biking Videos

    2. 29" dominates the market on this side of the pond. Maybe it's because Yanks are tall? It's not marketing hype.
    If the bikes didn't perform, how could they dominate? Hype only goes so far.

    3. As far as 650b - which I prefer - this German bike is cutting edge, and hard to get in the States. Many UK shops carry it.

    Buy Cube Stereo Super HPC 160 Race (650B) Mountain Bike 2013 - Full Suspension MTB at Tredz Bikes. £2995.00 with free UK delivery

    If you blokes aren't going to buy it, can you please ship it over? Looks tasty to
    me.


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    with regards to the cube lots of shops may have them in their product lists but very few will have one for you to test ride or look at in the flesh, a friend of mine owns a cube dealership and the only place he's seen one is at a trade show. i'm not slighting wagon wheelers they have their place but in the uk they are far from "dominant" there is still a lot of "oh look a 29er" unless your at an xc event where they seem to make up about 50% of the bikes.

    as someone said earlier in this thread the bike companies are throwing millions at marketing new standards because its harder to sell someone something they already have.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by b45her View Post
    with regards to the cube lots of shops may have them in their product lists but very few will have one for you to test ride or look at in the flesh, a friend of mine owns a cube dealership and the only place he's seen one is at a trade show. i'm not slighting wagon wheelers they have their place but in the uk they are far from "dominant" there is still a lot of "oh look a 29er" unless your at an xc event where they seem to make up about 50% of the bikes.

    as someone said earlier in this thread the bike companies are throwing millions at marketing new standards because its harder to sell someone something they already have.
    If I go to UK to ride, I will buy a 650b cube there (or on the other side of the channel, depending on whether pound or euro has better echange vs. dollar when I go).

    I was thinking Scotland (are they still UK or have they seceeded?) or Wales. What do you recommend?

    Thx.
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  39. #139
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    What's better: car or truck?

    truck can go anywhere car can.
    are cars a dying breed?
    Time wounds all heels...

  40. #140
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    no

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    No. Mountain bikes should not be about trends, fads, or "whats new," but rather simple physics. A 26" tire, among other things, will have a vastly different moment of inertia than a 29er or 650b, and consequently will have a unique feel to the ride. The same could be said of 29ers and 650b. It's simply is and most likely always be a preference of style and feel.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayman121 View Post
    No. Mountain bikes should not be about trends, fads, or "whats new," but rather simple physics. A 26" tire, among other things, will have a vastly different moment of inertia than a 29er or 650b, and consequently will have a unique feel to the ride. The same could be said of 29ers and 650b. It's simply is and most likely always be a preference of style and feel.
    It is not about moment of inertia at all. It is pretty close for a meaty 26" tire and lighter 29" tire/rim, but they do not ride anywhere near the same. It is about attack angle, shape of the contact patch and bike balance. And all of that is not "vastly" different.

    Largest difference, in raw numbers, is stiffness, as it goes as cube of radius. Some 40%+ difference IIRC, everything else being equal (rim and tire profile, spoke tension and diameter).. Whether it is important - another story.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    It is not about moment of inertia at all. It is pretty close for a meaty 26" tire and lighter 29" tire/rim, but they do not ride anywhere near the same. It is about attack angle, shape of the contact patch and bike balance. And all of that is not "vastly" different.

    Largest difference, in raw numbers, is stiffness, as it goes as cube of radius. Some 40%+ difference IIRC, everything else being equal (rim and tire profile, spoke tension and diameter).. Whether it is important - another story.
    How do you figure moment of inertia is not a factor, considering the difference in geometry of the frame as well as wheel size? For example, two riders, one on a 26 and one 29 going the same velocity relative to their surroundings will have tires with different rotational inertia. Are you saying this is not true, or that it makes no difference in feel?

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayman121 View Post
    How do you figure moment of inertia is not a factor, considering the difference in geometry of the frame as well as wheel size?
    I have mentioned an example. Take a 26" tire with a heavier tire and 29" with a smaller one. r^2 factor is ~1.2, so with rim+tire on 26" you need a 20% heavier tire to match. Say 650g 29r tire and 500g rim (assuming tubeless), and 780g 26" tire with 600g rim. You can about match the tire profile and knobs. Same moment of inertia - nowhere near the same ride.

    If I go from my weenie hardtail with 500g tires, to my AM hardtail, with 850g tires, I have a bigger change than when going to a 29r with similar rim/casing. Nowhere near the same effect.

    Difference in geometry are completely separate. As I have stated. That is the real difference.

    People bring this "moment of inertia" argument all the time without even looking at the numbers. Fraction of energy in the rotating wheel - compared to the whole rider+bike is very small. And depends more on your tire choice.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    I have listed the example. Take a 26" tire with larger tire and 29" with a smaller one. r^2 factor is ~1.2, so with rim+tire on 26" you need a 20% heavier tire to match. Say 650g 29r tire and 500g rim (assuming tubeless), and 780g 26" tire with 600g rim. You can about match the tire profile and knobs. Same moment of inertia - nowhere near the same ride.

    If I go from my weenie hardtail with 500g tires, to my AM hardtail, with 850g tires, I have a bigger change than when going to a 29r with similar rim/casing. Nowhere near the same effect.

    Difference in geometry are completely separate. As I have stated. That is the real difference.
    I'm not familiar with 29s much. Do 29ers generally have lighter tires? If so, then angular inertia is a factor which is merely compensated for with wheel mass. Sorry if I am misunderstanding you.

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    Where is the line between XC and "all mountain" ? I have a feeling some(you), would like to think an XC trail is just a dirt path. So an all mountain trail is a dirt path with a rock in the middle?
    Lol. The difference is that an "all mountain" rider would stop and session the rock if it were big enough, were a XC rider would try to pick the quickest/smoothest line and keep riding.
    All of my XC buddies, are always in a hurry.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayman121 View Post
    I'm not familiar with 29s much. Do 29ers generally have lighter tires? If so, then angular inertia is a factor which is merely compensated for with wheel mass. Sorry if I am misunderstanding you.
    They do not. Given the same casing and rim extrusion you will have about 1.1* 1.1^2 ~ 40% higher moment of inertia for a twenty niner wheel. And it will be around 5% (?) of the total energy in a rider+bike? Which is less than the difference between various 26" tire/rim models. Which, experimentally, does not achieve the same effect at all.

    Is 26er a dying breed?-c28.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    They do not. Given the same casing and rim extrusion you will have about 1.1* 1.1^2 ~ 40% higher moment of inertia for a twenty niner wheel. And it will be around 5% (?) of the total energy in a rider+bike? Which is less than the difference between various 26" tire/rim models. Which, experimentally, does not achieve the same effect at all.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    So the difference is there, but relatively negligible, correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghglenn View Post
    Lol. The difference is that an "all mountain" rider would stop and session the rock if it were big enough, were a XC rider would try to pick the quickest/smoothest line and keep riding.
    All of my XC buddies, are always in a hurry.
    For real! XC riders drink after the ride and an all mountain rider drinks during.

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    Riding a 29er this weekend for the first time on a demo day. Curious, yes...will I consider buying one after one ride, probably not. I currently ride a Turner 5-spot and I am dialed into this bike mentally & physically. Its not the bike, its the rider and the trails that you ride.

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