Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 232
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jazzanova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,163
    Last edited by jazzanova; 01-19-2014 at 09:28 PM.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: KRob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,843
    Thanks for sharing those. I thought that was a really enjoyable format. Like hanging around with your buds after a ride just chewing the fat and comparing bikes.

    The Devinci Troy sizing gripe was a head scratcher for me. I'm 5' 11.5" and the medium I rode didn't feel all that cramped, so not sure how they felt that the large was short. They even measured it at 24.5". Go figure.

    EDIT: I see on the Troy thread in the 27.5 forum where someone from Devinci explains that the published number for tt length is a virtual or effective measurement.

    With frames that have a bent seat tube like the Troy or one that attaches in front of the BB like knolly this ETT will be longer than the actual measurement. I'm still unsure how that explains the Large feeling so cramped for them. Just an observation as to why the published tt height doesn't seem to jive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    Christmas refresher course:



    Words by Noel:

    Measuring top tube length is generally considered to be a horizontal line from the center axis of the top of the head tube, that goes backwards and intersects with the seat tube axis. The trick is, what is the difference between TT length and ETT length? On a frame with traditional construction (i.e. where the seat tube axis pierces the BB shell's axis), the ETT length and the TT length are exactly the same.

    However, on a frame where the seat tube axis does NOT pierce the BB shell axis, the standard TT length then becomes meaningless because the seat tube angle doesn't mean anything. This is an issue on many, many modern frames, not just Knolly frames. Consider the multitude of frames that have "bent" seat tubes (whether actually bent or hydro-formed aluminum tubes, or are laid up in carbon this way). While the bottom of the seat tube may match up with the BB shell, the seat tube axis (where the seat post is installed into the seat tube) does NOT pierce the BB shell axis. This is extremely common to ensure that there is enough room for the rear wheel / rear linkage under full compression of the frame. On these kinds of frames, the actual seat tube angle cannot be used to make an effective measurement of the top tube length. Additionally, since the actual angle of the seat tube is slacker than the normal range of 72-74 degrees (for an MTB) when the seat is raised, it's hard to get a good indication of where the seat will be a) relative to the BB axis, and b) relative to the head tube.
    Hence, the creation of the ETT(Effective Top Tube length). The idea here is to have a "virtual" seat tube: this is essentially an imaginary axis that is at a prescribed angle (i.e. 73 degrees) and this axis is considered to pierce the BB shell axis. On any well designed frame with a seat tube that doesn't pierce the BB shell axis, the actual seat tube and the virtual seat tube should meet up where the saddle would be in a normal pedaling position. When dropped, the saddle will move slightly forwards, away from the virtual seat tube axis. While it's very obvious on our frames (because the seat tube intersects the down tube visually), the same situation exists on many (in fact, most) modern frames with travel more than about 5" because the tire and rear linkage need somewhere to go when fully compressed.

    The diagram gives a good idea of what happens here. Obviously, I can't speak for other manufacturers, but the situation shown in the diagram (with the continuous seat tube) is exactly how Knolly frames are designed. There are obviously a few more tweaks than this in determining frame geometry, but this gives the general idea, and how ETT length and TT length are similar, but not quite the same thing. It also explains how we deal with ensuring that we have enough room behind the seat tube for the rear wheel and linkage, while still allowing a full length seat tube to be used in the frame (especially important for medium and small frames and customers using dropper posts).

    Assuming that the seat tube angle is reasonable, ETT is the correct measurement when looking to determine the top tube length for fitting frame sizes, as (actual) TT length is meaningless for any frame that doesn't have a seat tube axis that pierces the BB shell axis.
    Last edited by KRob; 01-09-2014 at 05:29 PM.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jazzanova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,163

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: eurospek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,261
    The videos are much better executed and in-depth than this month's printed edition of the magazine. I found the reviews in print to be lacking.

  5. #5
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    691
    Any big take aways from these reviews? Bikes that fell short, or bikes that stand out?
    I do custom ArcGIS and Google Maps, including data collection and sustainable trail layout. Ride Welsh Mountain

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jazzanova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,163

    Re: 2014 Bible of Bike Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Any big take aways from these reviews? Bikes that fell short, or bikes that stand out?
    They complained about the Troy in particular feeling too short.
    Looks like they really like the Norco Sight, Ibis Ripley, Evil Uprising and Kona Process 134...
    Last edited by jazzanova; 01-08-2014 at 01:40 PM.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    305
    Since no one wants to mention it, most of them agreed that the Specialized Camber Evo was their fav 29 of the test. LOL A ton of the bikes seemed very in the middle with features that fell short, and some that stood out for each. It still shows that it really just comes down to personal preference, fit and terrain. I was also bummed about their review of the Troy.
    2014 Devinci Troy Carbon XP

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    194
    My take-away: Bike Magazine, and much of the industry's surrounding chatter and noise, aren't able to see past their insiderish noses, i.e., that many of us potential buyers have to buy a bike at closer to 3k, and if they would review one on its own virtues and drawbacks, it would not only be doing us a great service, it would help their buddies sell bikes.

    For instance, I know at least seven other dudes, in addition to me, who race/ride XC, and are looking for a FS AM bike as a second bike, but want something more SLX-level. Sure, we all build up our XC bikes, and would upgrade a new AM bike over time as we see fit. (Won't many folks do this? Like put that new Pike on later, when we beat the Revelation down?) So, we want something relatively inexpensive to start off.

    So:
    Review the Heckler.
    Review the alloy Sights and Ranges @ SLX
    Review the Remedy 8
    Review the ... insert your relatively inexpensive, decently spec'd whip here...
    ...though the Process 134 was a good one. Heh.

    My 2 cents. Anybody got change?

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: eurospek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,261
    Also shocking was the printed review of the Yeti SB75. It was mentioned it did nothing better than the SB66 or worse than the SB95. It seems like a rushed design to get on the 650b bandwagon.

  10. #10
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    691
    Quote Originally Posted by Collins View Post
    ... that many of us potential buyers have to buy a bike at closer to 3k, and if they would review one on its own virtues and drawbacks, it would not only be doing us a great service, it would help their buddies sell bikes.

    So:
    Review the Heckler.
    Review the alloy Sights and Ranges @ SLX
    Review the Remedy 8
    Review the ... insert your relatively inexpensive, decently spec'd whip here...
    ...though the Process 134 was a good one. Heh.
    ?
    I'd agree. I've been preaching the relative value of the Range and Sight in alloy, and even in carbon guise they are still deals compared to bikes like the Bronson C, which you can't get below $4,000 in carbon.

    I too am looking for a relatively light, relatively cheap 160mm full suspension bike as a "play bike" to compliment a carbon hardtail 29er.
    I do custom ArcGIS and Google Maps, including data collection and sustainable trail layout. Ride Welsh Mountain

  11. #11
    Zombie Uprising
    Reputation: tp806's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    579
    Maybe the Evil Uprising X7/X9 (or SLX/XT equivalent) version, at around $3800, full carbon?
    Last edited by tp806; 01-15-2014 at 02:17 AM.

  12. #12
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    691
    I would jump on a cheap Evil if it were 27.5" and I'm sure they'd sell like hotcakes even in 26" only, but the tweener wheels have me sold.
    I do custom ArcGIS and Google Maps, including data collection and sustainable trail layout. Ride Welsh Mountain

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: broccoli rob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    145
    Did they review any Pivots? I haven't seen the magazine yet and I don't think they reviewed any last year.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,656
    Quote Originally Posted by tp806 View Post
    Maybe the Evil Uprising X7/X9 version, at around $3800, full carbon?
    That's a smoking deal and after watching that video I'm trying to figure out how I can possibly swing that. Wow. I want one.
    2013 Transition TransAM 29er
    2011 Yeti 303R DH
    2012 Banshee Spitfire V1.5

  15. #15
    mtbr memeber
    Reputation: jpre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    311
    Quote Originally Posted by tp806
    Maybe the Evil Uprising X7/X9 version, at around $3800, full carbon?
    Where can I get one for that price?

  16. #16
    The White Jeff W
    Reputation: jeffw-13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    4,521
    I really enjoyed the reviews. I wish all the bikes had the same tires. As we all know, tires can make or break a bike. Id also like a plane ticket to where they rode. Looks like a great place to ride.
    No moss...

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,656
    Quote Originally Posted by jpre View Post
    Where can I get one for that price?
    I did some interwebs searching and found zip. I found one Evil retailer with frames for $2600 but that's it. I didn't even see the Uprising on their website (?)
    2013 Transition TransAM 29er
    2011 Yeti 303R DH
    2012 Banshee Spitfire V1.5

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,407
    I think they totally admitted that 27.5/ 650b is the best of both worlds. I could have told anyone that, it doesn't feel like either, but either do the others. That's why I'm all in on the 27.5 wheel size, it does what the 26ers do and does what 29ers do also, but does everything better then both, just can't totally believe what the magazines say, both pro and con.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: DrewBird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    413
    Loved the reviews; it was really nice to hear them talk honestly about what they didn't like! So many reviews just read like manufacturer's ad copy.

    Also, as my current MTB stable is a Bronson C and a Ripley, I'm glad to hear that the experts agree that they're two of the best out there!

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: KRob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,843
    Quote Originally Posted by broccoli rob View Post
    Did they review any Pivots? I haven't seen the magazine yet and I don't think they reviewed any last year.
    No Pivots tested. Not sure if CC just didn't want to send them any or what. They had plenty of demos at I-bike an Outerbike.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,745
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    I think they totally admitted that 27.5/ 650b is the best of both worlds. I could have told anyone that, it doesn't feel like either, but either do the others. That's why I'm all in on the 27.5 wheel size, it does what the 26ers do and does what 29ers do also, but does everything better then both, just can't totally believe what the magazines say, both pro and con.
    After watching the Yeti sb75 review, I'd say that they admired the opposite - that if you're looking for better rollover get a 29, if you want mobility and quick handling then get a 26er. 27.5 is a bad idea.

  22. #22
    Zombie Uprising
    Reputation: tp806's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    579
    Quote Originally Posted by jpre View Post
    Where can I get one for that price?
    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    I did some interwebs searching and found zip. I found one Evil retailer with frames for $2600 but that's it. I didn't even see the Uprising on their website (?)
    Well you can either get it directly from Evil, by contacting them on their facebook page (since their new website is not up yet).
    https://www.facebook.com/EvilBikes

    Or I think you can get the low end X7/X9 (or SLX/XT) version, built up, in any of the bike shops that actually carries them, like the one below.
    Evil Uprising Frame - Fanatik Bike Co. - Bellingham Wa

    http://www.silverfish-uk.com/Product...Bike-Pro-Build

    If I am not mistaken for 2013 in Europe, a low end build was this:

    2014 Bible of Bike Tests-image006_evil.jpg

    Base Race Face cranks & cockpit, XT wheelset, XT rear der, no dropper post, float CTD, Float 34.
    Last edited by tp806; 01-15-2014 at 02:18 AM.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: markymark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    460
    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro View Post
    After watching the Yeti sb75 review, I'd say that they admired the opposite - that if you're looking for better rollover get a 29, if you want mobility and quick handling then get a 26er. 27.5 is a bad idea.
    2014 Bible of Bike Tests: Yeti SB-75 - Bike Magazine - YouTube

    "if you're a mountain biker you should have a 26er and a 29er, and maybe you shouldn't have a 650b - ok I said it, and Dan's gonna have to cut that." So freaking true!

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    313
    At the end of the Uprising review:

    "Looks like its back to 26"

    So I'm guessing 2015 marketing hype will be all about how much fun 26" bikes are. Lol
    Switzerland doesn't need a bike park, Switzerland is a bike park.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,656
    Quote Originally Posted by tp806 View Post
    Well you can either get it directly from Evil, by contacting them on their facebook page (since their new website is not up yet).
    https://www.facebook.com/EvilBikes

    Or I think you can get the low end X7/X9 (or SLX/XT) version, built up, in any of the bike shops that actually carries them, like the one below.
    Evil Uprising Frame - Fanatik Bike Co. - Bellingham Wa

    If I am not mistaken for 2013 in Europe, a low end build was this:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	image006_EVIL.jpg 
Views:	770 
Size:	51.4 KB 
ID:	861178

    Base Race Face cranks & cockpit, XT wheelset, XT rear der, no dropper post.
    Thanks for the info. I still can't believe that setup is $3800. Time to start saving.
    2013 Transition TransAM 29er
    2011 Yeti 303R DH
    2012 Banshee Spitfire V1.5

Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Bike Lock Tests
    By mtbxplorer in forum Commuting
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 03-04-2014, 04:30 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-07-2014, 01:11 PM
  3. Bike Magazine Bible of Bike Tests HD!!
    By hanssc in forum Ibis
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-17-2013, 05:58 PM
  4. Bike: The Bible
    By Jimms in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-24-2012, 09:24 PM
  5. Replies: 73
    Last Post: 06-11-2012, 01:55 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •