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  1. #1
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    2013 Santa Cruz Chameleon- Ultramarine Blue (Pictures & Video)

    I just picked my new frame up today and thought a few of you might be interested in the following photos. Let me know if anyone needs any additional photos or frame specific measurements.











    Last edited by tkrowe; 10-25-2012 at 11:53 AM.

  2. #2
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    Looking good! what'll be the build spec on that thing?

  3. #3
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    Very cool!! I miss the the look of the big head tube gusset... hoping to see a 140mm fork!

  4. #4
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    Nice man, don't see too many of those lately. Be sure to post a pic once its built.
    2016 Santa Cruz Hightower 29er
    2016 Chromag Surface 27.5+
    2013 Transition TransAM 29er

  5. #5
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    Thanks. Most of the parts will come off my existing Chameleon. I'll post soon.


  6. #6
    rho
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    Ohhhh no EBB. Thats a good sign... Wonder how it'll hold up long term, I've really liked the sturdyness and stiffness of my 08 for these past 4 years.

  7. #7
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    I'm glad to lose the EBB. As for the long term durability, only time will tell. Hopefully the new dropout system won't make as much noise as my current EBB setup.

  8. #8
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    Is it interchangeable drop out? (to axle type)

  9. #9
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    That's dope love the color is it custom? I'm looking to order the tennis ball yellow once I confirm the frame weight and if I can run my taper fork. From the Cruz site looks like its a pound lighter than the 2012 model which makes it 3.7lbs and a degree slacker. This basically won me over the steel transition trans am I was looking at. can't wait to see yours build up...

  10. #10
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    This is one of the 2 standard colors.

    Head tube: This frame now uses a "mixed taper". This setup uses a standared 1.5" external lower cup (49mm bore) and an internal 1 1/8" upper cup (44mm bore). Almost all headset manufacturers make this product.

    I'll be breaking down my old bike next week and will weigh each frame before I throw all my parts on the new one.


    As far as the rear drop outs go.... For now SC is offering vertical and horizontal 135x9 dropouts. However, it looks like some 142x12 dropouts could be machined quite easily.

  11. #11
    meh?
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    Both standard colors look great! Congrats on the new frame.

    I'm also glad it's got interchangeable drop outs instead of an EBB.

  12. #12
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    Love the swappable drop outs!!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Map204 View Post
    [BI]Both standard colors look great! [/B] Congrats on the new frame.

    I'm also glad it's got interchangeable drop outs instead of an EBB.
    Yup, but I'm more partial to the Tennis Yellow.
    konahonzo

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    Hey SouthernVelo....frame looks good. What size is it? I see the sizing has changed..ie L has got a bit bigger. I have 2x chams, a 2005 L which I loved from day 1 for playing....and a 2010 XL (i'm 6'3") which i have disliked from day 1 to present - despite being the "right" size.

    I'm now excited about swapping out my XL back to a new L (wife currently rides my old L). Theoretically size should be perfect and back to old cham feeling and no EBB (hooray).

    Have you weighed it yet? Or measured it ?

    Looking forward to seeing the new build.....

  15. #15
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    It's an XL

    Ill prob. weigh and measure once I take my old chameleon apart. I'd like to post the data for my 2011 XL and 2013 XL at the same time.

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    Hi SouthernVelo....sorry, wasn't trying to knock your XL....just for me and my riding, it wasn't ideal. Dead keen to hear how you go.....I have that whole "I'm about to get a new bike " excitement thing going on.....you seem to be the first guy on the block with the new model.

    Cheers
    Jono

  17. #17
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    Jono no need for apologies here. After all, our conflicting opinions and riding styles help fuel evolution within the cycling industry.

    All my new parts are scheduled to arrive on Monday and I've been patiently waiting on this frame since 8/30. So I completely understand.

  18. #18
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    looking good

  19. #19
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    I did the scale thing and its exactly 1lb lighter than my 2011 Chameleon.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernVelo View Post
    I did the scale thing and its exactly 1lb lighter than my 2011 Chameleon.
    Sweet so under 4lbs?

  21. #21
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    4lb 7oz for the 2013 and 5lb 7oz for the 2011

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    Thanks for going to the effort to do this....always thought my last chameleon came in heavier than I expected. Now I know why!

  23. #23
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead!

    So I started the build a few days ago and ran into this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPJd-ISI59s

    Please give me some feedback and let me know what you think about the issue I pointed out in the video.
    Last edited by tkrowe; 10-25-2012 at 01:50 PM.

  24. #24
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    Hmmm, that doesn't look good at all...thanks for making the vid, the issue is very clear. You must be pretty annoyed.

    And no, I wouldn't be very excited about owning that frame right now.

    Does the odd relationship between head tube and top tube mean that the stand over clearence is also much reduced? Do you have a photo of what the bike looks like off the stand?

    Thanks....

  25. #25
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    I'll go take one. Keep in mind that the build is still in a period of "Rested Succession".

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono111 View Post
    Hmmm, that doesn't look good at all...thanks for making the vid, the issue is very clear. You must be pretty annoyed.

    And no, I wouldn't be very excited about owning that frame right now.

    Does the odd relationship between head tube and top tube mean that the stand over clearence is also much reduced? Do you have a photo of what the bike looks like off the stand?

    Thanks....
    Not the best quality, but here is a photo.



    Stand over: Funny you should ask. Yes. stand over clearance has also been reduced. Unfortunately I cannot compare the exact measurement from the ground on both model years. However I did measure the distance from BB center to top of top tube along the seat tube and got the following.

    2011 (EBB @ 6 o'clock inline w/ chainstay)= 42cm
    2013 = 47.5

    5.5cm = approx 2-1/8"

  27. #27
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    Have you contacted SC yet about this top tube issue?

    I kinda preferred the beefier look of the older frame, with the gussets and all.
    konahonzo

  28. #28
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    The new frame looks good. Congrats!

  29. #29
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    Dang that sucks!!! looks good though time to get some twisters or single speed?

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    SouthernVelo - thanks a heap for putting this stuff up for everyone, its really useful when buying a frame blind. Appreciate it.

    Cheers

  31. #31
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    Damn. Sorry about this. It's such an obvious problem, I'm surprised SC let it happen...

    Do let us know how it resolves. I'd be surprised if SC doesn't help you out readily--they were always great with me in the past, though that was before they really blew up...

  32. #32
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    Not much else to be done except put some sort of bumper where the impact zone is, like all the fixie guys do. Also not sure what SC is really supposed to do at this point short of a complete redesign, which seems a little excessive.

    FWIW I have used a full length top-tube pad for the past few seasons on my HTs. Yeah it probably shouldn't be mandatory but they are cheap and there isn't a whole lot of (any?) downside to running them.

  33. #33
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    Look at it this way, now you can run shorter cables
    Those who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither. - Ben Franklin

  34. #34
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    Long story short, I no longer own the frame and the build has been terminated.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernVelo View Post
    Long story short, I no longer own the frame and the build has been terminated.
    We wanna hear the long story. What happened to the frame?
    konahonzo

  36. #36
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    thanks for sharing the vid...
    good to know that..!!


    by the way...
    as it was new on the market I bought the EBB version (size Large) to replace my old cham..
    as it arrived it had bottle bosses on the seat tube....all pictures of the frame which I had seen before (catalogs,net,) where showing size M which is without the bosses..
    was really upset,... SC didn`t help..so I removed them by myself....
    used my chams for steep,technical, rocky, slow-mo downs.. lowering the saddle completely was a necessary option for this...

  37. #37
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    SouthernVelo, thank you for posting this. I was just about to order when i came across your post.

    Does anyone have an opinion on if this would still be an issue with the smaller sized frames? There are none in stock near me to see in the flesh, but i'm hoping from the geometry specs and photo's i have seen that on a medium for example, the top tube slopes that little bit more and negates this issue. Hopefully.

    Thanks.

  38. #38
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    I don't really see the big deal... My current bike is like that and I haven't had any issues, even in wrecks...

    (Though it would be annoying and sway me to other frames, I just don't think it's a complete deal breaker)

  39. #39
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    im with patrick. yeah, it is a design flaw, and yeah, it is annoying but when you get down to it does it really matter? if you mount your levers and shifters properly on a carbon bar they should be able to swing away anyways.

  40. #40
    JRR
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    Any updates to top tube and shifter problem? Did you complete the build and ride the bike yet? I'm looking at buying a XL frame and looking for some feedback

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    I agree that this is an issue. I also know that most flat bar road bikes have this issue as well, so I don't think that it is a unique issue. My plan is to see if the Large has this issue, notify SC that I know of the issue, apply a frame tape, and if/when something happens, to swap for grip shifting.

  42. #42
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    No updates. I no longer own the frame.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul View Post
    im with patrick. yeah, it is a design flaw, and yeah, it is annoying but when you get down to it does it really matter? if you mount your levers and shifters properly on a carbon bar they should be able to swing away anyways.
    Depending on the bike and its bar/stem set-up, contact w the top tube at full lock is possible. Levers/shifters are supposed to be mounted with minimal trq so that they can rotate upon impact and avoid damage.

    Both of my bikes have flat bars and relatively low-rise stems and have this "design flaw". One is an old '95 Stump Jumper, the other is an '11 Cannondale RZ with a sloping top tube. Never thought anything of it. Never had an issue with it with either bike or any of the other bikes I've had with the same "design flaw".
    '95 M2 StumpJumper FS
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumpjumpy View Post
    Depending on the bike and its bar/stem set-up, contact w the top tube at full lock is possible. Levers/shifters are supposed to be mounted with minimal trq so that they can rotate upon impact and avoid damage.

    Both of my bikes have flat bars and relatively low-rise stems and have this "design flaw". One is an old '95 Stump Jumper, the other is an '11 Cannondale RZ with a sloping top tube. Never thought anything of it. Never had an issue with it with either bike or any of the other bikes I've had with the same "design flaw".
    first off. thank you all for assuming that I do not know how to properly torque my levers and shifters. Second of all, no matter what anyone says, this is poor design evolution. Some of you might accept this, but I don't. I chose to post the information to allow each of you to make an informed purchase. I have already moved on.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernVelo View Post
    Long story short, I no longer own the frame and the build has been terminated.
    Quote Originally Posted by JRR View Post
    Any updates to top tube and shifter problem? Did you complete the build and ride the bike yet? I'm looking at buying a XL frame and looking for some feedback
    He gave you feedback in the thread.

  46. #46
    JRR
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    My bad,completely miss the second page when I made my post.

  47. #47
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    Sweet looking ride. Nice build.
    If your seat post is sticking out of your frame further then 6 inches, you need a bigger bike.

  48. #48
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    A zero stack headset, with a 0* rise stem and low rise bars will most certainly produce the problem you describe.
    Axle Standards Explained

    Founder at North Atlantic Dirt, riding & writing about trails in the northeast.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkley View Post
    A zero stack headset, with a 0* rise stem and low rise bars will most certainly produce the problem you describe.
    Not on the prior model. Also, my stem wasn't slammed. Look at the photo again.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernVelo View Post
    Not on the prior model. Also, my stem wasn't slammed. Look at the photo again.
    Your old frame did not have a zero stack headset, it had a standard external cup headset, which adds at least 10-15mm of stack height. And I didn't say your stem was slammed, I said it had 0 degrees of rise.

    The older model also had a 10mm shorter head tube. So the front end on the new model will effectively be 20-25mm shorter. In other words, if you wanted the bar height the same, you'd need to run 20-25mm of additional rise, which would probably give you the clearance you need.
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