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  1. #1
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    2010 Transition Covert vs. 2011 Specialized Stumpjumper EVO Expert

    I looking to get a new bike and I found both these models in town on closeout. I can probably get a better deal on the Transition but it's not spec'd as good. I'm also wondering how well the single pivot design of the Covert would compare while climbing to the FSR on the Stumpy?

    I'll be riding mainly XC trails with some moderate AM stuff, but want to get into some jumping and take the bike on some trips to more downhill/freeride areas?

    Thanks for any feedback!

  2. #2
    usually cranky
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    never ridden a stumpy but have had time on a v2 covert and it pedals great. super fun bike overall and if you are thinking about venturing into some bike parks that would be my choice.

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    I don't have any experience with the Covert but I'm pretty sure the Stumpy will stomp it in terms of climbing. Beyond that I can't say for sure.

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    I own a Covert and love it, but if you're mainly riding XC I'd go as light as possible and get the Stumpy. The Covert isn't a heavy bike but you'd probably be able to build a Stumpy up lighter.

    Also I'm not entirely sure what suspension design the Covert has, I don't think it's single pivot as the shock seems to be linkage driven? I'd like some confirmation on this from someone more in the know
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve.E View Post
    I own a Covert and love it, but if you're mainly riding XC I'd go as light as possible and get the Stumpy. The Covert isn't a heavy bike but you'd probably be able to build a Stumpy up lighter.

    Also I'm not entirely sure what suspension design the Covert has, I don't think it's single pivot as the shock seems to be linkage driven? I'd like some confirmation on this from someone more in the know
    It is linkage driven, but it's still functionally a single-pivot. The wheel is directly attached to the front triangle via one pivot. Therefore, it will exhibit many of the same traits as a basic single-pivot bike.

  6. #6
    usually cranky
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve.E View Post
    I own a Covert and love it, but if you're mainly riding XC I'd go as light as possible and get the Stumpy. The Covert isn't a heavy bike but you'd probably be able to build a Stumpy up lighter.
    i would guess with similar builds the stumpy would be a few pounds lighter. in practical terms i doubt you would feel a weight difference riding.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul View Post
    i would guess with similar builds the stumpy would be a few pounds lighter. in practical terms i doubt you would feel a weight difference riding.
    I've ridden both. I own a Stumpy Expert Evo, my wife owns a Covert.

    Her bike is built with XX and comes in around 26-27lbs. Mine weighs about the same with X0 and a chain guide...so it stands to reason the Stumpy frame is about 1/2 to 3/4 lbs lighter.

    Riding, the differences I noticed were the lower BB on the stumpy. I tend to hit my pedals more even running less sag on the stumpy. The stumpy lifts its front end a little easier (shorter stays, I think) and seems more planted in the rough stuff...especially while braking.

    My feeling is: if little details are worth the extra money, get the Stumpy. The Covert is 95% of the Stumpy's performance for $800 less. If you're on a flat budget, you can buy some serious parts for $800...and presto, you've more than made up that 5% difference.

    Hope that helps.

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  8. #8
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    Thanks Mike!

    What the the main differences you notice in the 2 different types of suspension? I've heard since the Covert is single pivot it has less small bump sensitivity than the Stumpy?

    The Covert also has a little more travel and combined with the single pivot I would think that it doesn't climb as well as the Stumpy but may be a little better on downhill sections. From your statements above it sounds like the Stumpy may have a tendency to lift up while climbing but is more stable through technical terrain, correct me if I'm wrong.

    I can't demo the Covert anywhere and I can only find a normal Stumpy to demo, not the Evo. Just trying to get an idea on the pros and cons of each.

    One other thought, the Stumpy Evo comes with a custom tuned RP23 with 3 settings when it's open vs. the stock RP23 on the Covert that has 3 settings in propedal, do you notice yourself using these a lot while your riding?

    Thanks again!

  9. #9
    usually cranky
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    i think the main differerence between fsr and sp is that fsr is more active, ie: doesnt firm up under braking.

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    Have you thought about the 2012 Stumpy Evo Comp?

  11. #11
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul View Post
    i think the main differerence between fsr and sp is that fsr is more active, ie: doesnt firm up under braking.
    Right, and that may be a good or bad thing depending on your preferences.

    I did not ride the most recent Stumpjumper, but after renting the previous generation, and riding Covert a little bit, I would guess that the decision could be down to a color choice and $$. They perform quite similar.

    Stumpy lists shock as 7.75x2.0 for EVO"? Is that some proprietary Specialized size?

  12. #12
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    I have a V1.5 Covert - I absolutely love it, climbs great without even using propedal. I will probably own nothing but Transition bikes for the rest of my life, the customer service and people that work there are top notch individuals.

    my vote is the Covert.....good luck with the decision!

  13. #13
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    "What the the main differences you notice in the 2 different types of suspension? I've heard since the Covert is single pivot it has less small bump sensitivity than the Stumpy? "


    you can put a coil on it to get your small bump and grip fix. I've ridden Covert's with CCDBs, Fox, Elka...they play nice with the linkage and leverage ratio. CCDB is coming soon with an air version that should be really nice. Love my covert v1.5. I scored a great deal on a CCDB so it's all good for me! like already mentioned..Tr. is an absolutely great truly rider owned little company.
    i'm on my Last Herb
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by chill7j11 View Post
    What the the main differences you notice in the 2 different types of suspension? I've heard since the Covert is single pivot it has less small bump sensitivity than the Stumpy?
    The only thing I noticed in suspension differences is a *very* slight tendency of the Covert's rear wheel to hop through rough braking sections...but see more below.

    Quote Originally Posted by chill7j11 View Post
    The Covert also has a little more travel and combined with the single pivot I would think that it doesn't climb as well as the Stumpy but may be a little better on downhill sections. From your statements above it sounds like the Stumpy may have a tendency to lift up while climbing but is more stable through technical terrain, correct me if I'm wrong.
    I can't tell the difference in travel, 5mm is negligible. I didn't notice one frame climbing better than the other...I tend to pedal smoothly and never use propedal/platform on my suspension.

    Quote Originally Posted by chill7j11 View Post
    One other thought, the Stumpy Evo comes with a custom tuned RP23 with 3 settings when it's open vs. the stock RP23 on the Covert that has 3 settings in propedal, do you notice yourself using these a lot while your riding?
    This question and the advice from 53119 got me thinking about things a little differently. My wife has a RockShox Monarch Plus on her Covert. I didn't give any advice earlier and kinda thought "do whatever and you'll be happy." I'm going to change directions here and be very specific with my advice:

    Get the Covert and get a Rock Shox Monarch Plus to replace the RP23. This shock is so ridiculously good. It's a total game changer and it brings the Covert to another level. This will more than make up the little differences in linkage/geometry/other.

    If my choice were between: 1) a Covert with Monarch Plus or 2) a Stumpy with the RP23, I would buy the Covert with zero hesitation. Remember, to get any non-stock suspension on the Stumpy, you'd have to have something made custom (which is a total pain). For a $450 shock you'll walk away with a Covert that will slay the Stumpy and will have spent less money. You'll also have a back-up shock (or a common shock dimension/tune you can sell). I'm not ripping on Fox here. There simply isn't a shock that compares fairly to the Monarch Plus.

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  15. #15
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    If my choice were between: 1) a Covert with Monarch Plus or 2) a Stumpy with the RP23, I would buy the Covert with zero hesitation. Remember, to get any non-stock suspension on the Stumpy, you'd have to have something made custom (which is a total pain). For a $450 shock you'll walk away with a Covert that will slay the Stumpy and will have spent less money. You'll also have a back-up shock (or a common shock dimension/tune you can sell). I'm not ripping on Fox here. There simply isn't a shock that compares fairly to the Monarch Plus.

    -Mike[/QUOTE]

    that's great advice. that monarch is a very nice shock. a friend just replaced his rp on his mojo to a Monarch. so much better! keith stone smooth! haha
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 53119 View Post
    "What the the main differences you notice in the 2 different types of suspension? I've heard since the Covert is single pivot it has less small bump sensitivity than the Stumpy? "


    you can put a coil on it to get your small bump and grip fix. I've ridden Covert's with CCDBs, Fox, Elka...they play nice with the linkage and leverage ratio. CCDB is coming soon with an air version that should be really nice. Love my covert v1.5. I scored a great deal on a CCDB so it's all good for me! like already mentioned..Tr. is an absolutely great truly rider owned little company.
    It's still not going to brake as well, which means less control and more skidding during braking. It's also not going to climb as well...and not be cheaper after you throw in the added cost of another rear shock.

    If you like technical descents, nothing beats a fully active rear suspension. It allows you to have a much higher level of control.

  17. #17
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    It's still not going to brake as well, which means less control and more skidding during braking. It's also not going to climb as well...and not be cheaper after you throw in the added cost of another rear shock.
    It brakes just fine. And it climbs just fine. And with a better shock it would do both even better. Do not let Specialized marketing materials confuse you. People win races on single pivot designs and enjoy them day in a day out.

    I have a Horst link bike (Rotwild) and a low single pivot (Kona) - and I would rather take Kona on a technical climb, and for descending the difference in rear brake usage in minuscule and not much to worry about.

  18. #18
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    Given the choice between faux bar and four bar I would go four bar if all else is equal. If the covert is way cheaper and you like it, I wouldn't worry too much about suspension design. Faux bar works fine. Transition is a cool company if that's worth anything. They are easy to deal with if you have issues, and they make replacement parts available for cheap. Spec is corporate and they throw their weight around. Example: I worked at a shop that sold spec, they forced the owner to buy x amount of helmets, tires, clothes, and bikes to remain a spec dealer. Spec dropped the shop because the owner wouldn't meet their quota. Pretty weak thing to do considering we already stocked a lot of their stuff and had other lines we needed to represent. Of course this has nothing to do with the quality of their bikes/parts.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    It brakes just fine. And it climbs just fine. And with a better shock it would do both even better. Do not let Specialized marketing materials confuse you. People win races on single pivot designs and enjoy them day in a day out.

    I have a Horst link bike (Rotwild) and a low single pivot (Kona) - and I would rather take Kona on a technical climb, and for descending the difference in rear brake usage in minuscule and not much to worry about.
    It's not marketing material, it's reality. Can a suspension design that stiffens under braking perform at the same level as one that doesn't? No, it can't. I also don't buy into the ricer argument that if you take an inferior design, and throw some extra money at it, that it will be better than something that was properly designed in the first place.

    It's a bummer that some companies don't want to either pay licensing fees for good suspension designs, or try to innovate for themselves instead of slapping the same old faux bar design together....but that's what they do, and there's no other way of describing it.

    When I went from a faux bar to a licensed FSR design, it was the biggest eye opener I've ever had on a bicycle. With comparable rear travel, fully active rear suspension is superior going up, or downhill.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    It's not marketing material, it's reality. Can a suspension design that stiffens under braking perform at the same level as one that doesn't? No, it can't.
    Yes, it can. It is the reality. Do not confuse your personal preferences and fanboy talk with it. Single pivot designs work just fine, period, end of story, especially with a well sorted out shock.

    On the other hand - FSR with that abomination of a "brain" shock (what a misnomer) was, in my personal opinion, the worst full suspension bike I have recently ridden - and I like Specialized - was riding FSR since 1995.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Yes, it can. It is the reality. Do not confuse your personal preferences and fanboy talk with it. Single pivot designs work just fine, period, end of story, especially with a well sorted out shock.

    On the other hand - FSR with that abomination of a "brain" shock (what a misnomer) was, in my personal opinion, the worst full suspension bike I have recently ridden - and I like Specialized - was riding FSR since 1995.
    Fully rigid bikes are "just fine" for some people.

    Just fine ≠ As well as others

    period

    Again with the ricer logic

    Single pivot bikes brake as well as active designs...when you use a floating rear brake.
    Single pivot bikes climb like more active designs....when the shock is overdamped to the point of affecting ride quality

    You keep cutting the springs and putting body kits on your Civic, I'll stick to what works in the first place.

  22. #22
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    Fully rigid bikes are "just fine" for some people.
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    Just fine ≠ As well as others
    Just fine may mean better or worse depending on your preferences. But claiming that one is absolutely, unquestionably "better" (for whatever definition of "better" you cooked up) is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    Single pivot bikes brake as well as active designs...when you use a floating rear brake.
    Single pivot bikes climb like more active designs....when the shock is overdamped to the point of affecting ride quality
    It is your opinion, not a fact. My opinion is that you are wrong. I ride both designs and riding quality on low single pivots is as good, or better, depending on your preferences.

    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    You keep cutting the springs and putting body kits on your Civic, I'll stick to what works in the first place.
    Explain the abomination of the "brain" shock then? Why would Specialized put that on in the first place, if they already have a, oh so perfect, design?

    P.S. Unsubscribing thread, as arguing with any particular suspension arrangement fanboys is a waste of time. Anybody with a clue will just go and test ride a bike with an open mind.
    Last edited by Axe; 08-03-2011 at 07:29 PM.

  23. #23
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    Chill-

    I hope you've gotten some solid info from the folks on here. I'm bowing out of the thread as well. Please don't hesitate to PM me if you have any further questions.

    -Mike
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