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  1. #1
    Ami Schwein
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    2007 specialized enduro article in singletrack

    Sorry if this has been posted already but it was news to me. Looks as if their going to be jumping into the suspension market as well.

    http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=2060
    Wait until Spring Bandini

  2. #2
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    whats with companys starting with S and proprietary products first shimano now specialized whos next sram?

  3. #3
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    Don't think they are doing themselves a favor by doing that.

    At least there is no way in hell i'll buy that bike with S#$% everything.
    "Didn't your doctor tell you to stop smoking and drinking?" George Burns "Yes but they all died"

  4. #4
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    Strange they bailed on FSR/horst that is about all they have going these days besides carbon BS. Looks like my POS FHS faux bar, glad I got mine for 400, that looks $$$
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown_Teeth
    Strange they bailed on FSR/horst that is about all they have going these days besides carbon BS. Looks like my POS FHS faux bar, glad I got mine for 400, that looks $$$
    It still looks like a horst to me, with the pivot on the chain stay..... but I may have looked at it wrong.
    blah blah blah

  6. #6
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    Looks like a bad Nomad rip off to me. Specialized is going backwards imo. I hope the Specialized brand shocks work better than the failed 5th element experiment. I don't know why Specialized continues to use proprietary shocks. This will not lure in prospective buyers imo.

  7. #7
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    I like my 2002 enduro way better than that.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown_Teeth
    Strange they bailed on FSR/horst that is about all they have going these days besides carbon BS. Looks like my POS FHS faux bar, glad I got mine for 400, that looks $$$
    I wonder if we'll hear in the next year here that spec. has lost their patent on the FSR suspension design....interesting

    DMR

  9. #9
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    Take another look.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brown_Teeth
    Strange they bailed on FSR/horst that is about all they have going these days besides carbon BS. Looks like my POS FHS faux bar, glad I got mine for 400, that looks $$$
    Why would Specialized bail on the FSR? Scroll down to the lower pictures. There is clearly a chainstay pivot.

  10. #10
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    Kinda cool. I'd be willing to bet that its gonna be godawful expensive. No opinions on the performance of the fork/shock but I would say that Fox is probably gonna be involved in the manufacturing. Perhaps the rocker is due to the carbon not being strong enough to use an interrupted seat tube. Guess we'll see in the coming months...

  11. #11
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    Don't really understand why everyone is hating on it.

    Other than the front shock I think it is very elegant looking. Would probably be very nice with the new 36 float on it.

  12. #12
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    I like it (looks like a Nomad), although the spesh shocks would keep me from buying it.

    It seems the current Enduro is highly-regarded, so is spesh really getting rid of a winning design to jump on the Nomad bandwagon?

    Ant

  13. #13
    TNC
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    Doesn't that rear shock...

    Quote Originally Posted by YaZgo
    Kinda cool. I'd be willing to bet that its gonna be godawful expensive. No opinions on the performance of the fork/shock but I would say that Fox is probably gonna be involved in the manufacturing. Perhaps the rocker is due to the carbon not being strong enough to use an interrupted seat tube. Guess we'll see in the coming months...
    look like a Fox RP3 or RP23 or whatever? As long as the shock mounts and shock length are such that one could install an off-the-shelf rear shock of one's choice, I wouldn't mind that Spec wants to try making their own shock. It's that inability to use another brand of shock that would chap me. The old Enduro severely limited such a choice.

    It sounds like the 25mm hub would kill the idea of using that fork for me...just as it did with the DUC32 Maverick fork's 24mm hub. If we're going to have bigger choices than 20mm, the manufacturers need to get a "standard" down.

  14. #14
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    What kind of fork is that? Who Makes it?

  15. #15
    Ami Schwein
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    Dude read the article its manufactured by specialized. I agree with TNC some standardization would def be nice. It seems like a strange move to me though, I assume these will be OEM only.
    Wait until Spring Bandini

  16. #16
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    That curvy look is familiar...

    Quote Originally Posted by k-stein
    Sorry if this has been posted already but it was news to me. Looks as if their going to be jumping into the suspension market as well.

    http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=2060
    Oh look! Its a plastic Nomad!

    I wonder if that bike breaks $8k... Any bets?
    - -benja- -

  17. #17
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    How is it a Nomad knock off? Can all bikes without straight toptubes be traced back to the Nomad?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Go Kart Motzart
    How is it a Nomad knock off? Can all bikes without straight toptubes be traced back to the Nomad?
    The curvy tube look is coming into vogue. Witness the Nomad, the Ibis Mojo Carbon and now the new Spesh Enduro among others I've likely forgotten.

    Just noticing a pattern and merely IMHO, hence the I included in my post.

    [Edit: Judging from the comments on their site, it appears I'm not alone in noticing the homage to the Nomad...]
    - -benja- -

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    I wouldn't compare frame look with Nomad but rather with Iron Horse 7Point and I would guess with soon to be released IH 6Point.
    On the sidenote, it's still full blown FSR and it's just funny how some from "S" commented on the interrupted seattube design of the current Enduro vs. Epic, saying rockers will be too big on the long travel bike.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stalk
    On the sidenote, it's still full blown FSR and it's just funny how some from "S" commented on the interrupted seattube design of the current Enduro vs. Epic, saying rockers will be too big on the long travel bike.
    Can you clarify a bit for me. Not sure what you mean by the rockers being too big for long travel. Don't all of their full suspension bikes need to use rockers to a certain degree?
    I love lamp.

  21. #21
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    I don't like this idea of Specialized using proprietary shocks. Didn't they used to stock all of their old bikes with their proprietary cranks, aka Strongarm, and other bits they everyone used to complain about? Finally they ditched that idea and went with Shimano/Truvativ cranks, etc.

    Why are they doing this anyways? More profitable for them, and less performance for us?

    WTF?

    Looks like I'll be keeping my 06 Enduro for many years to come.
    "If an illegal alien is an undocumented immigrant, than a drug dealer is an unlicensed pharmicist."

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullit71
    Why are they doing this anyways? More profitable for them, and less performance for us?
    I don't think it will cost performance at all. They have hired brilliant guy to handle the suspension. Quoted from Bike Magic-

    The man behind Specialized's new suspension projects is Mike McAndrews. He's been working in two-wheeled suspension approximately for ever, from tuning bikes for pro MX racers, through being head of R&D at RockShox for six years to heading up Fox's fork development. He also did a stint at Maverick, and the FutureShock E150 fork is conceptually not dissimilar to Maverick's DUC32 - it's a long-travel trail fork that uses dual crowns to cut weight and an oversized axle to add stiffness.


    Specialized has worked closely with Fox over the last few years and this latest step will bring them even more control over the process.

  23. #23
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    I agree. I think that S has done their homework this time. McAndrews' is sort of an expert among experts. Proprietary the suspension may be, but I have no doubt that it will work very well with McAndrews behind the, uhhh...shimstacks. I'm personally not very crazy about proprietary equipment, but I can't say too much about that, being that I'm a Cdale rider.
    I love lamp.

  24. #24
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    The suspension is not proproetary. I have ridden the 07 enduro with a fox 36 fork and fox dhx air shock. It rides fine. It works better however if the suspension is designed to the bike and the bike designed to the suspension, you can have it that much more perfect.

  25. #25
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    It looks pretty. As for all the S parts, I don't care, because i will never own one anyways. Seriously though, i don't know if it is a great idea to have S brand everything. Could scare away a few buyers. However, it sounds like they did some hw on it, so if it works, it works. If they have problems, people will point and laugh.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustFuzzIt
    The suspension is not proproetary. I have ridden the 07 enduro with a fox 36 fork and fox dhx air shock. It rides fine. It works better however if the suspension is designed to the bike and the bike designed to the suspension, you can have it that much more perfect.
    Specialized had the 5th element designed for the Enduro and it didn't work out too well. The Fox DHX on the Enduro for 06, is more or less proprietary. There is not really any other rear shock alternatives for the Enduro. You get what you get. This is what proprietary means. Well, I guess for 07, you might get two choices.
    Last edited by ronny; 07-18-2006 at 10:40 PM.

  27. #27
    squish is good
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    Why should an in-house shock design be so scary for people? It may not be the norm on bicycles, but car manufacturers have worked closely with suspension companies to develop specialized equipment for all of their vehicles. Granted, shocks are not often manufactured in house, but their design is tailored to each vehicle from the beginning of the design process. I always thought it was a little strange that the same rear shock or fork would be used on frames that had different geometries. Instead of designing a bike around a set shock, it makes sense to me to design the whole thing as a package. Anyways, yeah it might be a little strange at first, but I'd bet that a juggernaught like Specialized will get it ironed out pretty quickly.

    As a counterpoint to my own point, the seperate design process has worked out well and why change something that ain't broke? We may just find out why, I'll be paying attention to future reviews.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by benja55
    Oh look! Its a plastic Nomad!

    I wonder if that bike breaks $8k... Any bets?


    That would be one EXPENSIVE taiwan bike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......wait or China....who knows now and days. Is anything made here anymore?

    How did these people trick everyone to buy their over priced mass production bike that only cost a couple bucks to make at 6-8k?

    If you guys only knew the margin they have on these things when they bring them over from asia.
    "Didn't your doctor tell you to stop smoking and drinking?" George Burns "Yes but they all died"

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clutchman83
    ........... I always thought it was a little strange that the same rear shock or fork would be used on frames that had different geometries.........
    I think shocks are ordered "custom tuned" by some manufacturers, at least damping could easily be different?
    Specialized has had semi custom shocks (triad, septune etc) before so maybe this isn't as big leap as it's made in press releases...
    As long as shock and fork have standard sizes and lengths I see no problems - except in service and parts availability?

    Anyway, I'm pretty sure that folks who have had original Futureshocks are least keen on buying these...

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by duke777
    That would be one EXPENSIVE taiwan bike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......wait or China....who knows now and days. Is anything made here anymore?

    How did these people trick everyone to buy their over priced mass production bike that only cost a couple bucks to make at 6-8k?

    If you guys only knew the margin they have on these things when they bring them over from asia.
    Huh? Yea, I'm sure it doesn't cost more then a couple bucks to hire lots of smart creative people at Morgan Hill, R&D, make prototypes, commit to molds for the Carbon process and purchase XTR groups to outfit your top level bikes.

    What's your point?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronny
    Specialized had the 5th element designed for the Enduro and it didn't work out too well. The Fox DHX on the Enduro for 06, is more or less proprietary. There is not really any other rear shock alternatives for the Enduro. You get what you get. This is what proprietary means. Well, I guess for 07, you might get two choices.
    Not really. None of the bikes you mention lock you into their shock design. They all can accept other shocks. The Epic or a Lefty hub would work for your example, but not the current Enduro nor the new one.

  32. #32
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by antonio
    I like it (looks like a Nomad), although the spesh shocks would keep me from buying it.

    It seems the current Enduro is highly-regarded, so is spesh really getting rid of a winning design to jump on the Nomad bandwagon?

    Ant
    The current Enduro isn't going anywhere.... just changing name

    Quote Originally Posted by singletrackworld
    If you're a fan of the old style Enduro (which we are here) then you'll be pleased to hear that it'll live on as the SX Trail and aimed a little more at rockier days out.
    Cheers,
    Cris

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronny
    Specialized had the 5th element designed for the Enduro and it didn't work out too well. The Fox DHX on the Enduro for 06, is more or less proprietary. There is not really any other rear shock alternatives for the Enduro. You get what you get. This is what proprietary means. Well, I guess for 07, you might get two choices.

    Well the more variety you use, the more the bikes geo and performance gets thrown off. The fifth element shock did bomb, yeah. The dhx air was used on many other bikes, nomad, a kona, intense 6.6 and more. Bikes work better if they are designed knowing what suspension is supposed to go on it. What specialized did here was design their own suspension for the bike so it can be that much more perfect. Yeah I know specialized is just that big monster company, marketing genies, crap, whatever. I think they have been doing somethiing right in the past 6 years.Maybe thats just me.

  34. #34
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    I like the idea of thinking the suspension though, as apposed to just throwing a shock on there and hoping that it works well. But more than likely it needs to be valved to your weight to be optimal. That is why I'll always buy a shock & fork that can be tuned by PUSH.

    Spec seems to be saying if we design a bike from the ground up, we can make it stronger stiffer and lighter than if we had to design around current industry standards. As long as it's durable then all the more power to them. It still falls short of ideal since it doesn't have an internal gearbox.

    BTW I think it is a very beautiful bike.
    Last edited by Steve71; 07-19-2006 at 11:35 AM.
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  35. #35
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    "Without exception, every British journalist at the Specialized presentation winced at the design of the fork and said 'mud clearance?' We'll have to see in some real world testing in the UK, but with a Spesh 2.1 tyre in the fork there was barely enough room for a finger between the top of the tyre and the brace"

    Oh dear
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  36. #36
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    yup

    Quote Originally Posted by stripes
    This bike will probably be ridiculously priced anyway.
    I'm betting its well north of $7k, given what their other platic bikes have been going for. But maybe they will drive prices down with these? Too soon to tell.

    I'm sorry though, if I'm paying that much loot I want to sit with the builder and have a beer.
    - -benja- -

  37. #37
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    I ride mostly in Santa Cruz, CA

    and I've seen a lot of these new bikes on the trails over the past few months. I've seen various set ups with new Enduro design, with and w/out the double clamp forks, as well as a few other new Specialized bikes. I like how they look, with the swoopy lines and cafe cruiser style. Never talked the guys but I'm sure they worked for Specialized.

    When riding in Santa Cruz you always see some of the new stuff/technology/design, ride with/see some pros, or people in the bike industry. What's next?

  38. #38
    TNC
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    In-house problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clutchman83
    Why should an in-house shock design be so scary for people? It may not be the norm on bicycles, but car manufacturers have worked closely with suspension companies to develop specialized equipment for all of their vehicles. Granted, shocks are not often manufactured in house, but their design is tailored to each vehicle from the beginning of the design process. I always thought it was a little strange that the same rear shock or fork would be used on frames that had different geometries. Instead of designing a bike around a set shock, it makes sense to me to design the whole thing as a package. Anyways, yeah it might be a little strange at first, but I'd bet that a juggernaught like Specialized will get it ironed out pretty quickly.

    As a counterpoint to my own point, the seperate design process has worked out well and why change something that ain't broke? We may just find out why, I'll be paying attention to future reviews.
    The only problem with an in-house design is when that design "only" allows you to use their shock in their frame. I could care less if Spec made a dozen of their own shocks for a particular bike in their lineup...that would be fine. But if they designed the shock length and stroke in some oddball fashion and/or made the frame where only their shocks would fit, then I say "the heck with them". There is no reason, when you're designing from the ground up, to create an inability to choose an alternate shock from the many quality types and sizes from other manufacturers. I think that is a "control" issue that a manufacturer is trying to mandate on its customers for a financial and marketing reason. I actually like Specialized, but I'm getting a little annoyed at their fairly extreme move toward proprietary parts and suspension. This is starting to remind me of another company that got heavily into this practice...C'dale. Another point here is that I don't think Spec has gained any real advantage with most of these moves. I don't think the current Enduro is superior to several other bikes out there that use more commonly available suspension parts, and I'll bet the new one won't be head and shoulders ahead either. If a company goes in this direction, I think the final product ought to be something extremely special. Their Brain setup on Epic models might fit that description. That crazy shock on the new Scott high zoot Ransom LTD might also fit that category too.

    Just my personal opinion. I like options, and when I'm required to use a specific brand shock, hub size, fork, etc., it had better be something that takes the bike to a whole other level.

  39. #39
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    Actualy I found "S" bikes are reasonably well priced as far as you don't buy them at MSRP
    In fall we struck a deal for the friend on the new Enduro Expert for the 2grand.
    Of course the carbon version will be priced sky-high, but AL version should be in the range of the similarly equipped bikes (Giant Reing/Trance, IH MKIII/6Point)

  40. #40
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    I doubt very seriously that Specialized is going to produce their own suspension components. As a matter of fact the adjuster on top of the fork looks an awful like the ones on the Fox 36 and 40.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by lebikerboy
    I doubt very seriously that Specialized is going to produce their own suspension components. As a matter of fact the adjuster on top of the fork looks an awful like the ones on the Fox 36 and 40.

    What is there to doubt about it? They already presented the bike to press and everything.. it looks pretty certain.. It could be that Fox or some other "fabricates" the suspension components, but they would still be Spec's own.

    -Cris

  42. #42
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    True that, options are good. While I'm excited about Spesh building a tailor made suspension, I think its downright dirty if they don't give you the option to customize.

  43. #43
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    I'm sure that Specialized has definitely had input into the design of the suspension with their name on it like the"Brain" however, Fox or one of the major players is actually doing the manufacturing. Oh and by the way Manitou makes the "Lefty" for Cannondale.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes
    I don't know about you, but I spend a lot of time finding the right parts for my riding style. I absolutely did not like my Float RLC 130, even Push'd, but someone else may. I really like the Pike454, which are both completely different folks.

    Some people like coil, some like air. Hell, some folks may even still like elastomers .

    That's why everyone's not so thrilled about in-house shock design. I know that C-dale does it, and a lot of people swear by the Lefty fork, but I'll stick with my Ventana that isn't married to it's own in-house componentry.
    What are you talking about? The Enduro doesn't marry you to it's shock. Just like your Ventana, the shock cn be changed out to another brand if you would like.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by lebikerboy
    Oh and by the way Manitou makes the "Lefty" for Cannondale.
    No they don't.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by lebikerboy
    Oh and by the way Manitou makes the "Lefty" for Cannondale.
    And some of them are made by Fox...
    Click here!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Go Kart Motzart
    Huh? Yea, I'm sure it doesn't cost more then a couple bucks to hire lots of smart creative people at Morgan Hill, R&D, make prototypes, commit to molds for the Carbon process and purchase XTR groups to outfit your top level bikes.

    What's your point?
    LOL you obviously don't know the cost of manufacturing. R&D is cheap compare to how many bikes they sell. In general only a few people do R&D and the rest tells the Chinese how to make it and ChaChing! BTW a mold for a small part cost around 1-3K, a mold for a frame I would assume around 20-30k MAX, plus 10 bucks a day labor fee it would mount to around 250-450 frame cost even for a carbon one. I highly doubt it would cost them more than 150 for a enduro frame. Carbon being lighter stronger and more expensive is just a marketing. When Spec buy XTR is a WHOLE LOT CHEAPER THAN YOU IMAGIN!

    In case all of you don't know butted tubings are way more expensive than stamped "hydroformed" because easton or some other manufacture have to custom make them at very small quantity.

    A jacket on sale for 100 bucks only cost 10-12 bucks shipped to LA if it's good quality. A toy under 10 bucks whole sale cost is less than a buck...........my point is you have no idea!
    "Didn't your doctor tell you to stop smoking and drinking?" George Burns "Yes but they all died"

  48. #48
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    Some limitations

    Quote Originally Posted by Go Kart Motzart
    What are you talking about? The Enduro doesn't marry you to it's shock. Just like your Ventana, the shock cn be changed out to another brand if you would like.
    There is a definite limitation on what shocks you can put on the '05-'06 Enduro. First they use an unusual length/stroke setup, and then you just can't put anyone's piggyback shock on there. I don't think the shock length/stroke setup is a deal killer if you know what you're doing, but not being able to access many of the more popular shock's schrader valves for boost chamber/SPV tuning is a major issue for many. Try using an aftermarket DHX air or coil, or any piggyback Manitou coil or air, or a 5th E coil on these Enduros, and you'll see the problem. The end of the world?...no. Enough to be an issue for me and some others?...yes.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Go Kart Motzart
    Huh? Yea, I'm sure it doesn't cost more then a couple bucks to hire lots of smart creative people at Morgan Hill, R&D, make prototypes, commit to molds for the Carbon process and purchase XTR groups to outfit your top level bikes.

    What's your point?
    why argue with a nitwit who doesnt even know how to spell beer

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Go Kart Motzart's Avatar
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    Jan 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by duke777
    ...my point is you have no idea!
    Yes, moron, I have an idea. My point is I am not opposed to Specialized making a profit. Bikes, like every other product or service is is "worth" whatever the market will bear.

    I am well aware that the gross profit margin in most manufacturing is very high when products are made overseas, but that is just a small sliver of what ends up as the true cost of a product for a company as large as Specialized. Insurance, distribution, customer service staff, marketing, etc, etc.

    I guess the bottom line is, if you think they are overpriced DO NOT buy one. Sounds like you should avoid jackets and toys as well.

    Have a nice day.

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