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  1. #1
    biking is fun
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    170mm frames - Pivot Firebird VS Trek Scratch

    Looking for some opinions on long travel AM style bikes that can handle freeride abuse yet pedal uphill fairly well. I am not worried about setting any uphill records since most people I ride with have 160mm rear travel anyway.

    Anyone have experience on both of these? if not then personal experience on one or the other would be awesome. Mainly looking for DHability, Climbability, and how well they jump. I had a knolly delirium last year and liked it but would like something a bit lighter. Also how do they compare to Nomads, mojo's, remedies, etc...

    I already have either a 170mm lyrik solo air or 180 talas that I could use for the build. I also have a full DH bike so I don't have to worry about abusing this bike on nasty, rocky terrain.

  2. #2
    Huffy Rider
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    I have ridden the HD and the Firebird, both climb very well, the HD felt lighter. They both descend like a champ, the HD is plusher then the Firebird. Either one would be an awesome ride. I personally liked the HD better but I felt fast on both. Hope this gives you somewhere to start.

  3. #3
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    I think an Ibis Mojo Hd fits the bill perfectly. It climbs well, light compared to other bikes, stiff, one of the best cornering and jumping bikes I have ever used. It feels like a big plush BMX bike.
    I currently have a FOX 180 on there and it works really well with the bike. Gives it a more DH feel.
    My only issue is the lack of ISG tabs. But they are coming out with a dual ring guide that locks in to one of the pivots.

  4. #4
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    Don't rule out the Yeti ASR7, gobs of travel and pedal pretty well for it too. I run coil front and rear on mine and find it a good all around bike. Just did some lift service runs and came back with big smiles.

  5. #5
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    Just bought a scratch air for the same reason. Got a great deal because they were ordering 2012 models. Coming off of a 2011 reign I noticed a big difference. The bike feels solid. 20mm through front and 12mm through rear. Pedals incredibly well..... Way better than I thought it would.

    Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
    2011 Trek Scratch Air 8
    2011 Reign 2
    2008 Specialized p.2

  6. #6
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    Scratch is more gravity oriented than the others, and with it's Session downtube should be really stiff and solid feeling ( I have a Session but have only pedaled around a Scratch). I also have an '09 Remedy with a Float 160... current Remedys are a little more xc oriented but for '12 all the Treks have 1 deg slacker HAs... I would look into the '12 Trek Slash, which is billed as the DH'ers trailbike and fits between the Scratch and Remedy. Should be an awesome bike but I'm sure it's not going to pedal as well as vpp/dw bikes.

    I'd also look into the NomadC with the PUSH link and a coil shock. Discussion on RM:

    First impressions - Push Industries Nomad Link - Ridemonkey.com

    My issue with a lot of today's trailbikes is that they have a linear sus rate, which is ok for their intended purpose and average rider, but it doesn't work as well for someone who is used to a progressive dh bike sus. Sounds like the PUSH link transforms the Nomad into a mini-dh bike, but the vpp design will keep it pedaling better than a single pivot with a similar sus curve and shock.

    Otherwise, I'd be looking at dw link bikes because they are usually more progressive than their vpp2 counterparts. Some say it gives them a more "dead" feel than vpp2, but since you own a dh bike I think you'd like it.

    I'm not too familiar with the ReignX sus characteristics, but it's well worth looking into, everyone I know on a RX loves it and it is much less expensive than a lot of others...


    Edit: I would not buy a bike without iscg tabs. I don't think the MojoHD has them...

  7. #7
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    What about a Banshee Wildcard? The frame is around 1.5lb lighter than the Delirium but it can definitely take some serious abuse-

    How much do you weigh and how big are you going?

  8. #8
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    I have my FB now for three months and have had it in various trails from Bend to Black Rock. If you already have a DH this bike is the perfect 6.5" bike.

    Before the FB I had a Highline and a Bottlerocket. It feels similar to the BR on the downs. It's a very fast responsive bike that likes to be pushed. What sets it apart is the climbing, it climbs great. My large is built up at 34lbs but with no effort it could be down to 32.

    If you're thinking of a 6" bike take a serious look at the FB.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    biking is fun
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    The lack of ISCG tabs and also availability makes the mojo further down my list but it may take a few months to finalize what bike I want and to come up with the money so that may change. I am not too sure on the availability of the firebird but will look into it this week. It seems like the firebird is quite a bit cheaper too.

    Thanks for the responses.

  10. #10
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    I've owned a Firebird for a while now and it's a great climber and descender. Pedalling performance is excellent. I can't compare it to a Trek Scratch but can to a Remedy and I found the Remedy to be a nice bike, but not in the same league as the Firebird in any way.

  11. #11
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    dw link bikes are in a class of their own. once i put the monarch on my mojo hd i knew i had found perfection with plenty of travel, dh stability, and a bike that pedals uphill as good as any trail bike if not better. even with the 1x10

  12. #12
    Perpetual Hack
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    Chilcotin

    michael

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mykel View Post
    Chilcotin

    michael
    and when exactly is it coming out? How about the endorphin or endorphin SL?

    I liked my delirium but with all the recent things going on (or should I say lack thereof) over at knolly I don't think its a good buy right now. I don't doubt it would be a good bike but who knows when it will come out. I understand that people who preordered theirs are getting them shortly (supposedly, and also many of them in a color they didn't order) but when will they be available for other people in ano black or raw? Also if there is a warranty issue will they be able to help out? Seems like a few people having to deal with this right now. I know they changed their company and moved things overseas which I am sure is a pain but their complete lack of communication about it has turned me off for a while. Also, I would be a bit skeptical to get the first batch of a new bike from a new factory.

    Its a good thing I didn't wait too. I sold my delirium to get a DH bike and a AM bike. I was set on ordering a chilcotin in march but after waiting a bit i decided to get a blur lt2 until the chilcotin came out. If I would have waited the whole time I still would be without an AM bike.

  14. #14
    Perpetual Hack
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    Whoa - dude, sorry I pushed that button.

    I am very happy with my Delirium as my one and only. I have not been following the Chili / Endo development saga, so was not fully aware of the issues you bring up.
    I know they were looking at alternate fabrication houses including over-seas as they have had huge QC and delivery issues with SAPA. Thought that would all have been long taken care of by now...

    I have never had an issue contacting Noel, either by phone or by e-mail. But then I have not spoken to him in many months as I have not had the need.

    So, in other words....

    - Nevermind -

    michael

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mykel View Post
    Whoa - dude, sorry I pushed that button.

    I am very happy with my Delirium as my one and only. I have not been following the Chili / Endo development saga, so was not fully aware of the issues you bring up.
    I know they were looking at alternate fabrication houses including over-seas as they have had huge QC and delivery issues with SAPA. Thought that would all have been long taken care of by now...

    I have never had an issue contacting Noel, either by phone or by e-mail. But then I have not spoken to him in many months as I have not had the need.

    So, in other words....

    - Nevermind -

    michael
    Yeah, sorry, bit of a sore spot right now...

    I am just glad that I had bought a frame to ride instead of waiting. People who thought they were getting chilcotin and endorphin frames in march didn't find out they weren't until mid march in some cases. A few people had already bought full builds and sold other bikes (like me).

    I really do like most of the geometry on it as well. I just wish they would have gave it better standover on the larges like the delirium has. I wish companies didn't feel they had to stick to the 19" large seat tube standard. I am 6 feet and could easily get away with a 17" with plenty of room to spare and with height adjust seatposts it seems silly people are making AM/FR bikes with high seat tubes.

    And as upset as I sound I still may end up on one eventually. Just waiting for them to get things figured out.

  16. #16
    Perpetual Hack
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    Ya, that sucks large.
    Being I only get a part year to ride due to that frozen water stuff, I would be pissed HUGE - expecting bike at beginning of season, and almost end of season and nothing. Not like Noel and Co - they are usually fully up front about what is going on, with forum updates and discussions galore.

    But then again, since DB came on board, I don't know if I have read a post by Noel...

    What about Nicolai?

    michael

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