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  1. #1
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    07 Specalised Enduro SL or 06 Giant Reign

    I need the help of you, the "great unwashed".

    I am lookin to upgrade my poor little 05 GT idrive 4, I have outgrown the capabilities of this great little bike and need something more all mountan, that still climbs very well.

    I thought I had decided on a 06 Giant Reign with some great components (SRAM X0, Mavic XL, pike 454 air etc) at a pretty good price. I of course then did a silly thing and test rode the Specialised Enduro SL and thought that the bike rode really well. Unfortunately the LBS won't let me take it outside of the shop carpark (to be fair, not may shops around here do).

    So now, I once again do not know what to do. The Enduro is an extra $1K, but I prefer the ride based on the limited carpark ride.

    Is the FSR suspension that much better then the maestro?
    Has anyone with the Enduro had any problems in tight twisting climbs because of the dual crown, it seems to severely effect the turning circle?
    What would you guys do?

  2. #2
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    My vote is for the Reign. Its a great bike and i dont think the extra 1k for the enduro will be that much better.

  3. #3
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    My vote is that you actually wait and get the '08 enduro SL. From the looks of things, this bike is going to be AMAZING. Also, out of the two listed, I'd still get the Enduro.

  4. #4
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    I have an 07 Enduro SL and one of my buddies rides an 05 Reign. Both bikes are on platforms and for whatever reason, I can't climb anything technical on his bike... maybe it's just me but the cockpit seems really tight (kind of like my Heckler). The SL is a very capable climber for what it is.

    I would prefer the Reign for the FR side of AM (seems more solid/durable to me) and prefer the SL for the XC side of AM (way better climber; more nimble even on the slack setting). Your results may differ depending on what you want out of it.

    If you do decide on an SL, I'd wait for the 08's as well.

  5. #5
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    not sure if other SL guys are having the problem, but i was at my LBS and was told they are prone to lose air in the fork if left sitting for extended time periods (week or so) and they have had a some already blow out the seals on the forks.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebpiot
    I need the help of you, the "great unwashed".

    I am lookin to upgrade my poor little 05 GT idrive 4, I have outgrown the capabilities of this great little bike and need something more all mountan, that still climbs very well.

    I thought I had decided on a 06 Giant Reign with some great components (SRAM X0, Mavic XL, pike 454 air etc) at a pretty good price. I of course then did a silly thing and test rode the Specialised Enduro SL and thought that the bike rode really well. Unfortunately the LBS won't let me take it outside of the shop carpark (to be fair, not may shops around here do).

    So now, I once again do not know what to do. The Enduro is an extra $1K, but I prefer the ride based on the limited carpark ride.

    Is the FSR suspension that much better then the maestro?
    Has anyone with the Enduro had any problems in tight twisting climbs because of the dual crown, it seems to severely effect the turning circle?
    What would you guys do?
    Who said FSR was better than Maestro? Specialized is a great bike but IMO they are overpriced for comparable parts spec. Bike comparisons are tricky and usually skewed in some way because of different shocks and fork settings. The only true way to compare it is to have identical parts specs. Most people buy the bike that fits and feels the best initially. Others do research, read reviews, read more reviews, test ride, then commit to perfecting the bikes fit and feel because they believe in the frame and it's suspension design.
    FWIW, the PIKE 454 is a great fork, tried and true!
    Last edited by wormvine; 07-07-2007 at 08:44 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudmojo
    I have an 07 Enduro SL and one of my buddies rides an 05 Reign. Both bikes are on platforms and for whatever reason, I can't climb anything technical on his bike... maybe it's just me but the cockpit seems really tight (kind of like my Heckler). The SL is a very capable climber for what it is.

    I would prefer the Reign for the FR side of AM (seems more solid/durable to me) and prefer the SL for the XC side of AM (way better climber; more nimble even on the slack setting). Your results may differ depending on what you want out of it.

    If you do decide on an SL, I'd wait for the 08's as well.
    Thanks for the reply, I am getting too old for too much freeride and so will defiitely will be leaning towards the XC of all mountain but still want to be able to take the 5-6 foot drops etc.

    There have been 2 people mentioning that I should wait for the 2008 model, what specfically do you think is the most compelling reason. Is it because it is the second generation of the integrated philosophy (call me cynical but I think it's more to do with margins then a better bike, but I digress). Very interested to hear your opinions

    Thanks

  8. #8
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    Hi,
    Well, here's my two cents: I looked at both of these bikes as well and got to ride them both.
    I personally liked the Specialized much better and purchased the Enduro SL Comp. I love this bike and have had zero problems with it.
    You get six inches of travel front and rear. You get a totally adjustable shock that changes from I think its 150mm down to 110mm with the flip of a lever! This completely changes the geometry for quicker steering and better climbing! You get a triple clamp front fork that is Ultra stiff! No flexing at all! This bike handles like its on rails and I started off weighing 250 pounds when riding it.
    The shocks are integrated to work together and the engineering shows. The frame is a work of art with a lifetime guarantee. The shocks are also guaranteed.
    The rear suspension climbs better then anything I have ever felt and it does not bob at all! The rear shock has a quick flip lever for compression dampening. You can go from soft to very firm with a flip!
    The only differnce with the 08 model is a bit lighter triple clamps up front, but the linkage in the rear went from a cold forged alloy link to a different material. I think Magnesium. I like the aluminum myself.
    I do not like the seat on the 08 or the white handlebars and front forks. Regardless, this bike can take anything I can throw at it.
    Worth every penny so far. This bike needs to be assembled properly and I think this is where some consumers have problems. If the dealers do not set it up right you will have may have problems.
    This bike does EVERYTHING VERY WELL and to my does not feel lke a 31 pound bike at all when riding it!
    Let us know what you go with!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 65bug
    Hi,
    Well, here's my two cents: I looked at both of these bikes as well and got to ride them both.
    I personally liked the Specialized much better and purchased the Enduro SL Comp. I love this bike and have had zero problems with it.
    You get six inches of travel front and rear. You get a totally adjustable shock that changes from I think its 150mm down to 110mm with the flip of a lever! This completely changes the geometry for quicker steering and better climbing! You get a triple clamp front fork that is Ultra stiff! No flexing at all! This bike handles like its on rails and I started off weighing 250 pounds when riding it.
    The shocks are integrated to work together and the engineering shows. The frame is a work of art with a lifetime guarantee. The shocks are also guaranteed.
    The rear suspension climbs better then anything I have ever felt and it does not bob at all! The rear shock has a quick flip lever for compression dampening. You can go from soft to very firm with a flip!
    The only differnce with the 08 model is a bit lighter triple clamps up front, but the linkage in the rear went from a cold forged alloy link to a different material. I think Magnesium. I like the aluminum myself.
    I do not like the seat on the 08 or the white handlebars and front forks. Regardless, this bike can take anything I can throw at it.
    Worth every penny so far. This bike needs to be assembled properly and I think this is where some consumers have problems. If the dealers do not set it up right you will have may have problems.
    This bike does EVERYTHING VERY WELL and to my does not feel lke a 31 pound bike at all when riding it!
    Let us know what you go with!
    So you have listed everything about the Spec but nothing about the Giant.
    Giant has a lifetime frame warranty. Everything else is top notch on the Giant. And it is a $1000 less. PIKE air U-turn is adjustable too unless it is just the air. 140mm-110mm. But I looked at giant's archive and no 2005 or 2006 or 2007 was spec'd with a PIKE of any kind.
    Doesn't matter.
    The Giant should come with a Fox RP3. Easily sent to PUSH for a custom valving when it needs a overhaul.

    The Giant is easily a match for the Enduro. Dual crown fork is great. But overkill on a AM bike. I kill it on my 66sl and notice no flex. Seb said he was more on the XC side of things anyway.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudmojo
    I have an 07 Enduro SL and one of my buddies rides an 05 Reign. Both bikes are on platforms and for whatever reason, I can't climb anything technical on his bike... maybe it's just me but the cockpit seems really tight (kind of like my Heckler). The SL is a very capable climber for what it is.

    I would prefer the Reign for the FR side of AM (seems more solid/durable to me) and prefer the SL for the XC side of AM (way better climber; more nimble even on the slack setting). Your results may differ depending on what you want out of it.

    If you do decide on an SL, I'd wait for the 08's as well.
    Platform shocks don't help you climb technical trails better unless you have a single pivot design. Movement of the suspension is crucial to keeping the wheel planted in rough climbing situations. Even though the Giant has a platform shock it is best left off when climbing technical trails. The Maestro suspension should pedal well without a platform. The only time I would use a platform would be on a fireroad but still unneccessary. That's the whole point of the VPP type suspensions. Smooth tractable power without the need for a platform.

    I have nothing against the Enduro and i don't own a Giant. But for all the positive reviews for the Enduro, no one has truly given any credible reason why the Enduro is a better buy or actually performs better head to head all the while keeping in mind the Giant is $1000 less.

  11. #11
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    Maybe I should have been more specific... what I meant to say was that both bikes were equipped with platform pedals not platform shocks. I don't even know what a platform shock is?

    I looked at the Reign and the SL side by side and the rear suspension looks almost identical to me but then again, I'm no suspension savant.

    I would have bought a Reign myself (so I can funnel my $$$ into other toys) if my buddy didn't buy one first

  12. #12
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    this is why i love mtbr.com, the community is great.

    He is a different way to look at things, how about people that ride a reign or an enduro tell us what they Don't like about their bikes.

    I know that sometimes it's hard to admit to yourself that there is something you don't like especially after you have just forked over a large wad of cash.

  13. #13
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    this is why i love mtbr.com, the community is great.

    He is a different way to look at things, how about people that ride a reign or an enduro tell us what they Don't like about their bikes.

    I know that sometimes it's hard to admit to yourself that there is something you don't like especially after you have just forked over a large wad of cash.

  14. #14
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    ... and if we just ...

    No, I did not list everything about the Specialized. I forgot to mention that the rear shock is adjustable on the frame too for different geometry
    I listed alot about the Specialized because that's what I own and am familiar with. After riding both bikes, the spesh impressed me so much I did not waste anymore time with the Giant.
    The Enduro is ALOT OF BIKE FOR THE MONEY. In my opinion WAY MORE BIKE then the Giant.
    I love the roominess in the cockpit of the Enduro too. I have never liked riding a hunched over bike where all your weight is on your wrists.
    The Enduro really impressed me because it feels like my old BMX racing bikes in terms of rider positioning. Hands up higher and body down a little lower. a more balanced feeling
    Hey, get em both out there like I did and ride them back to back. ALOT MORE TECHNOLOGY with the Specialized

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 65bug
    No, I did not list everything about the Specialized. I forgot to mention that the rear shock is adjustable on the frame too for different geometry
    I listed alot about the Specialized because that's what I own and am familiar with. After riding both bikes, the spesh impressed me so much I did not waste anymore time with the Giant.
    The Enduro is ALOT OF BIKE FOR THE MONEY. In my opinion WAY MORE BIKE then the Giant.
    I love the roominess in the cockpit of the Enduro too. I have never liked riding a hunched over bike where all your weight is on your wrists.
    The Enduro really impressed me because it feels like my old BMX racing bikes in terms of rider positioning. Hands up higher and body down a little lower. a more balanced feeling
    Hey, get em both out there like I did and ride them back to back. ALOT MORE TECHNOLOGY with the Specialized
    Hey 65, You really like the roominess of the cockpit. All those things can be adjusted on the giant as well. You have to do more than just choose the same size. That is subjective. You have to make sure effective top tube, seat tube, head tube angle, etc are similar. As for the body positioning goes, Shorter stem and taller riser bars cures that quick. Your main arguments are solely based on cockpit and feel which can be changed drasticly by changing bars and stem. (ie 50mm stem vs 130mm stem, a difference of over 3 inches).
    I agree rear shock adjustability is a plus. But probably not a $1000 plus. The fork and shock of the spec aren't really any better vs a PIKE and RP3. The other components on both bikes are top notch. And the BMX feel of the spec can be easily replicated on the Giant.
    And higher technology doesn't always mean better. It can be less reliable.
    So nothing you have said about the spec's pros justify a $1000 more.

    But like I said earlier. Most people will pick the bike that is initially setup to their liking.
    Here's 8 reviews of the Reign 0 giving it a rating of 4.88/5.
    http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Allmtn_F...t_127847.shtml
    Here's 18 reviews of the Spec Enduro Expert giving it a rating of 4.72/5.
    http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Allmtn_F...t_128564.shtml
    Last edited by wormvine; 07-08-2007 at 10:24 AM.

  16. #16
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    get a Mojo

  17. #17
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    I'll second that!

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    Can't really comment on the Giant, but a few months ago I was torn between a SL and a SC Heckler. I went with the Heckler in the end as the first gen SL left me a bit uncomfortable. The Heckler is highly rated and I managed to demo one to be sure. Standard components and single pivot simplicity also pluses in my books since I'm not much of a wrench fiend. I've been following the forums here on the SL since, there is also a poll on reliability somewhere so have a look to see if it helps, I have read quite a few posts about problems with the first gen suspension on the SL, what is hard to tell is how many people are fine with it, apart from that it does seem to be a great bike.

    On the flipside my decision did backfire a bit since I'm now 3 months in the waiting for my SC frame. If I had been told this from outset I'm pretty sure my impuse buying would have swung me back in the SL's direction.

  19. #19
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    ... and if we just ...

    Worm,
    So, why would I even consider buying a bike then changing the bars and stem to make it fit me better and or feel better? A total waste of money in my opinion! Then we are not talking a 1000.00 difference are we?
    Then, would it not be better to just buy a frame and build it from there? OF course, that would be even more money then.
    Just because YOU don't think the extra 1000.00 is worth it does'nt mean it's not. Apparently you are in the minority!
    The reviews you put in your response clearly show that! There's 8 giant Reign reviews to 18 Specialized reviews. And thats just the Enduro Expert model! There are two other Enduro models as well .
    Both are great bikes and have components that are very durable. I have just always prefered Specialized over Giant. I have compared them a few times and it's always Specialized!
    Some like Ford's, some like Chevy's.............................

  20. #20
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    Any decent bike shop

    Quote Originally Posted by 65bug
    Worm,
    So, why would I even consider buying a bike then changing the bars and stem to make it fit me better and or feel better? A total waste of money in my opinion! Then we are not talking a 1000.00 difference are we?
    Then, would it not be better to just buy a frame and build it from there? OF course, that would be even more money then.
    Just because YOU don't think the extra 1000.00 is worth it does'nt mean it's not. Apparently you are in the minority!
    The reviews you put in your response clearly show that! There's 8 giant Reign reviews to 18 Specialized reviews. And thats just the Enduro Expert model! There are two other Enduro models as well .
    Both are great bikes and have components that are very
    durable. I have just always prefered Specialized over Giant. I have compared them a few times and it's always Specialized!
    Some like Ford's, some like Chevy's.............................
    Any decent bike shop will swap stems/bars to get the right cockpit size free of charge. His point was the complaint was about how cramped the Giant was, and that could be easily remedied by going to a larger size (the Giants have massive standover) or a different stem.

    Dave

  21. #21
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    Dave,
    I have asked that before on a road bike and was told there would be a charge and they could not just swap out parts. Alot of bikes come with the parts already installed. What are they gonna do with pre-installed parts with scratches on them and no packaging?
    If they can send them back to the bike company for credit and are willing to do that, hey I will try that again next time!
    I checked out the reviews on the other Specialized Enduro's too:
    1. 4.88 on the comp
    2. 5.0 on the pro
    I am out............................................... .......to ride.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 65bug
    Worm,
    So, why would I even consider buying a bike then changing the bars and stem to make it fit me better and or feel better? A total waste of money in my opinion! Then we are not talking a 1000.00 difference are we?
    Then, would it not be better to just buy a frame and build it from there? OF course, that would be even more money then.
    Just because YOU don't think the extra 1000.00 is worth it does'nt mean it's not. Apparently you are in the minority!
    The reviews you put in your response clearly show that! There's 8 giant Reign reviews to 18 Specialized reviews. And thats just the Enduro Expert model! There are two other Enduro models as well .
    Both are great bikes and have components that are very durable. I have just always prefered Specialized over Giant. I have compared them a few times and it's always Specialized!
    Some like Ford's, some like Chevy's.............................

    I think the real question would be, Why would someone choose one bike over the other solely based on how it initially fit based on OEM parts? If 1000 personal reviews and 10 magazines reviews said that a particular bike rocked and you tried it out and it felt cramped would you not see if you could tweak the fit if that is what you wanted.
    So a decent set of handlebars and stem should cost you about $150.00. You sell the old parts on Ebay to offset the new parts. I have done that many times to save on upgrades. Most experienced bike buyers expect to change bars or stems to perfect their fit. It's not uncommon.

    Both are great bikes and have components that are very durable. I have just always prefered Specialized over Giant. I have compared them a few times and it's always Specialized!
    Some like Ford's, some like Chevy's
    I have no beef with people who have personal preferences but I do object to subjective reviews based on little more than personal preference.

    As far as the reviews go, Both were rated practically equal. I didn't even go back to the older reigns or other models.

    Also, it's practically never cheaper to buy a frame and build it up. You can always buy a full build and sell off the parts you don't want and upgrade the ones you do. I bought a full 06' bike on closeout and sold the frame and fork, bought a new 07 frame and fork and saved at least $800.00 over a full 07 model. To build it from scratch would have cost a $1000 more than the retail price.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 65bug
    Dave,
    I have asked that before on a road bike and was told there would be a charge and they could not just swap out parts. Alot of bikes come with the parts already installed. What are they gonna do with pre-installed parts with scratches on them and no packaging?
    If they can send them back to the bike company for credit and are willing to do that, hey I will try that again next time!
    I checked out the reviews on the other Specialized Enduro's too:
    1. 4.88 on the comp
    2. 5.0 on the pro
    I am out............................................... .......to ride.

    Some bike shops will sell these parts online as OEM takeoffs like ThePath bike shop or Chain Reaction Cycles in the UK. Hell "The path" will even pull a frame off a full build and sell it as a frameset. It's important IMO that a prospective buyer have as many facts and options explained to them as possible before they make a decision. But I can accept that some people just need someone to say here's 3 bikes pick your favorite.

    Here's 27 more reviews of the Reign 1 giving it a 4.89/5!
    http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Freeride...t_124717.shtml
    55 more reviews on the Reign 2 giving it a 4.53/5
    http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Freeride...t_124718.shtml
    Last edited by wormvine; 07-08-2007 at 05:36 PM.

  24. #24
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    I bought a SL this spring. I really like it. It does everything well. I was coming off a Iron Horse MK3 and the SL is better in every way.

    I've never really ridden a Reign so I can't compare but one thing that would definitely sway me into buying Specialized again is their Warranty and Customer Service. I've had some issues with the fork and shock but every time Specialized has fed ex'd new parts and they have been here 2 days later. Will Giant/Fox/Rock Shox do that for you?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfinn
    I bought a SL this spring. I really like it. It does everything well. I was coming off a Iron Horse MK3 and the SL is better in every way.

    I've never really ridden a Reign so I can't compare but one thing that would definitely sway me into buying Specialized again is their Warranty and Customer Service. I've had some issues with the fork and shock but every time Specialized has fed ex'd new parts and they have been here 2 days later. Will Giant/Fox/Rock Shox do that for you?

    What model MK3? Sport, Comp, Expert, Team. 05, 06, 07' ?
    An IH MK3 is a solid bike that pedals like a champ and descends like a dream. I have read many, many reviews of the bike and have owned 2 of them. The reviews from actual owners have been outstanding. But some of the cheaper models had less than ideal forks/shocks. It's so shady to say the SL was better in every way. Comparing it how. I know for a fact that when set up properly the MK3 has little or no bob and climbs like a mountain goat and bombs on the downhill. What fork did the Mk3 have and what travel did it have? What rear shock? How do their geometries compare? Opinions like that are worthless and prove nothing. Step up or step off!
    Last edited by wormvine; 07-08-2007 at 07:23 PM.

  26. #26
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    you gotta chill out.

    here's your info....

    it was a '06 MK3 Comp frame. Manitou Radium R rear shock, Rock Shox Pike 454 fork (5.5" of travel).

    The one area where the MK3 and SL perform similar IMO is climbing. The IH is a good climber but to me it feels like the rear wheel on the SL does a much better job keeping traction on steep or loose climbs. Neither bike bobs that much when climbing or pedaling in general. Twice now I've had friends mention that the SL does not bob at all while pedaling after riding behind me.

    As far as downhill performance, the SL wins hands down for me. The extra inch of travel is definitely appreciated. Even with the Pike on the front of the MK3 it was still steeper than I would like. I run my SL in the low/slack setting and the HA feels perfect there. The one thing I miss from the MK3 is the really low bottom bracket but I've gotten used to the slightly higher BB on the SL and it's not really an issue.

    I owned the MK3 for a season and a half. I liked it but after my first ride on the SL I knew I had made the right choice.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormvine
    What fork did the Mk3 have and what travel did it have? What rear shock? How do their geometries compare? Opinions like that are worthless and prove nothing. Step up or step off!
    The Mkiii has a head angle of 69.5, pre 07, (I am pretty sure the current Reign has a HA of 69) while the Enduro has a HA of 67.5 in the low position.

    I love the DW Link and know what it does (had one), but a DW LInk cannot overcome a 2 degree slacker HA on descents.

    I know, because my 06 Enduro kills my 04 HollowPoint in everything but spirited pedaling. One of the deferences between the bikes was 2 degrees of HA.

    P

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfinn
    you gotta chill out.

    here's your info....

    it was a '06 MK3 Comp frame. Manitou Radium R rear shock, Rock Shox Pike 454 fork (5.5" of travel).

    The one area where the MK3 and SL perform similar IMO is climbing. The IH is a good climber but to me it feels like the rear wheel on the SL does a much better job keeping traction on steep or loose climbs. Neither bike bobs that much when climbing or pedaling in general. Twice now I've had friends mention that the SL does not bob at all while pedaling after riding behind me.

    As far as downhill performance, the SL wins hands down for me. The extra inch of travel is definitely appreciated. Even with the Pike on the front of the MK3 it was still steeper than I would like. I run my SL in the low/slack setting and the HA feels perfect there. The one thing I miss from the MK3 is the really low bottom bracket but I've gotten used to the slightly higher BB on the SL and it's not really an issue.

    I owned the MK3 for a season and a half. I liked it but after my first ride on the SL I knew I had made the right choice.

    The IH is a good climber but to me it feels like the rear wheel on the SL does a much better job keeping traction on steep or loose climbs.
    So first off the manitou radium is a POS and I attribute this impression to the crappy shock. The enduro's rear shock is much higher end. The Pike is a awesome fork but at 140mm vs 160mm well 160mm is gonna feel better. The actual HA of the 06 comp was 70 deg not 69.5.
    That was a change that never made it to production. So the Enduro has a much slacker HA and more rear travel. These 2 bikes don't even compare geometry wise. I wouldn't even argue that the Enduro would be a better performer on the DH. It better descend better with it's geometry specs. I know I need to chill but your statments are misleading. The MK3 should not be compared to the Enduro and it gives people the wrong impression. Plus the enduro comp is $600 more so it should have better fork/shock. Is your SL the comp or the expert or pro? If you want to compare apples to apples try the IH 6point.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P
    The Mkiii has a head angle of 69.5, pre 07, (I am pretty sure the current Reign has a HA of 69) while the Enduro has a HA of 67.5 in the low position.

    I love the DW Link and know what it does (had one), but a DW LInk cannot overcome a 2 degree slacker HA on descents.

    I know, because my 06 Enduro kills my 04 HollowPoint in everything but spirited pedaling. One of the deferences between the bikes was 2 degrees of HA.

    P
    Your totally right Mr.P. Have you tried the IH 6point.
    Here's mine 7x7.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormvine
    So first off the manitou radium is a POS and I attribute this impression to the crappy shock. The enduro's rear shock is much higher end. The Pike is a awesome fork but at 140mm vs 160mm well 160mm is gonna feel better. The actual HA of the 06 comp was 70 deg not 69.5.
    That was a change that never made it to production. So the Enduro has a much slacker HA and more rear travel. These 2 bikes don't even compare geometry wise. I wouldn't even argue that the Enduro would be a better performer on the DH. It better descend better with it's geometry specs. I know I need to chill but your statments are misleading. The MK3 should not be compared to the Enduro and it gives people the wrong impression. Plus the enduro comp is $600 more so it should have better fork/shock. Is your SL the comp or the expert or pro? If you want to compare apples to apples try the IH 6point.
    WTF.

    I only compared the MK3 to the SL briefly because it was the last bike I owned. YOU then asked me for specifics comparing them. I never said they were apples to apples, just the last two bikes that I've owned. My SL is the expert model.

    My original comment was focused on the quality customer service I've been getting from Specialized.

  31. #31
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    If you want to compare apples to apples try the IH 6point
    I thought about it but after cracking 2 rear triangles on my MK3 and having to wait over a month for the last one to get replaced by IH I didn't want to buy their product again. Also, IMO their prices are pretty damn high even when compared to the SL.

    Now that's really going to piss off an IH fan boy like yourself.

  32. #32
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    Worm,
    The way you have been talking I was under the impression YOU owned a Spesh Enduro. Now that I see you don't, how can you bag on someone else for expressing their opinion???? sheesh. Get two of the same frames, add different components, shocks, tires, bars and they are going to feels like different bikes.
    Myself personally, feel has alot to do with the bike purchase. If it feels great, with quality parts and a reputable name that's good enough for me. I do not follow what everyone else says or does. I do what works for me!
    I am 6'3 250 pounds and it's not alot of fat(34 Waist). A little more weight over the years(41 years old now) but I am back biking and have lost 12 pounds already.
    To swap for a good set of bars and stem 150.00?????????????? WTF, WHERE? A good set of bars is 130.00( DH Monkeylight carbon) online and the stem another 150.00. Labor? Longer cables? It all adds up.
    And Specialized backs up their products too. IT breaks and you get a new one in 48 hours or less.
    The guy that Spesh hired has loads of experience with suspension and has been around for quite a while. I will put my clams into a company that is tops in R&D.
    If it looks beefier it usually is. And I just have the Comp, but man it is sweet. If I really go crazy, it may be the carbon frame next.............WHOOOOHOOOOOOO

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 65bug
    Worm,
    The way you have been talking I was under the impression YOU owned a Spesh Enduro. Now that I see you don't, how can you bag on someone else for expressing their opinion???? sheesh. Get two of the same frames, add different components, shocks, tires, bars and they are going to feels like different bikes.
    Myself personally, feel has alot to do with the bike purchase. If it feels great, with quality parts and a reputable name that's good enough for me. I do not follow what everyone else says or does. I do what works for me!
    I am 6'3 250 pounds and it's not alot of fat(34 Waist). A little more weight over the years(41 years old now) but I am back biking and have lost 12 pounds already.
    To swap for a good set of bars and stem 150.00?????????????? WTF, WHERE? A good set of bars is 130.00( DH Monkeylight carbon) online and the stem another 150.00. Labor? Longer cables? It all adds up.
    And Specialized backs up their products too. IT breaks and you get a new one in 48 hours or less.
    The guy that Spesh hired has loads of experience with suspension and has been around for quite a while. I will put my clams into a company that is tops in R&D.
    If it looks beefier it usually is. And I just have the Comp, but man it is sweet. If I really go crazy, it may be the carbon frame next.............WHOOOOHOOOOOOO

    Why would you think I owned an enduro? I was always defending the Giant. Sorry but I didn't realize you were a parts elitist. An Easton EA70 Riser bar is $60.00 and a Thompson Elite Stem is $80.00. That's $140.00. Not exactly crap in most riders opinions. I'll give you 20 more examples if you like. Stupid example on your part. Carbon is a rarity not a norm and is definitely not spec'd on the comp or the expert. Looks to me that both the stem and the bars are worth no more than $50 each.
    And if you would read my posts I am not bashing his opinion of the SL, I never said the Enduro was a bad bike either. It's a great bike and I said it earlier. Get your facts straight. I said to both of you that your conclusions about the other bikes were flawed and misrepresented. I also never said that your choice to pick the enduro based on a great initial impression was wrong. I said that just because the Reign didn't feel good initially should in no way be the final answer on it's potential vs the Enduro.

    Here's dfinn's quote:
    I was coming off a Iron Horse MK3 and the SL is better in every way.
    I got on dfinns case because these 2 bikes don't compare and he did nothing to clarify why he thought the SL was better. That's lame IMO and I called him out on it. I know of a mtbr'r who snapped his Enduro in half and Specialized wouldn't replace it due to a few scratches. But I am not going to use that fact in a way that creates a negative opinion of it. Maybe I should it seems to be the MO of some poster's here.
    Last edited by wormvine; 07-08-2007 at 09:51 PM.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfinn
    I thought about it but after cracking 2 rear triangles on my MK3 and having to wait over a month for the last one to get replaced by IH I didn't want to buy their product again. Also, IMO their prices are pretty damn high even when compared to the SL.

    Now that's really going to piss off an IH fan boy like yourself.
    Dude you really just haven't much knowledge to you.
    MSRP of a IH 6point frame is $1499.00 I paid $1350.
    MSRP of the Enduro frame is $2200

    Care to take another try.
    As far as cracked rear triangles go, that's the first I have heard of it. But frames crack all the time for every bike co. As far as customer service goes, For every bad report I hear just as many good reports. For lots of companies. Check out how people feel about marzocchi. Some claim their CS to be the best ever. Some say it is the worst.
    Last edited by wormvine; 07-08-2007 at 09:54 PM.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormvine
    Dude you really just haven't much knowledge to you.
    MSRP of a IH 6point frame is $1499.00 I paid $1350.
    MSRP of the Enduro frame is $2200

    Care to take another try.
    Yeah, I'd be glad to. That price you quoted for the Enduro is not the SL version.

    I was comparing my Enduro SL Expert to a IH 6point6.

    MSRP of a 6point6 = $3,999
    MSRP of a Enduro SL Expert = $3300

    Build wise I'd say they are pretty even. The enduro weighs about 3-4 lbs less though.

    I'm done arguing with you, this is pointless.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfinn
    Yeah, I'd be glad to. That price you quoted for the Enduro is not the SL version.

    I was comparing my Enduro SL Expert to a IH 6point6.

    MSRP of a 6point6 = $3,999
    MSRP of a Enduro SL Expert = $3300

    Build wise I'd say they are pretty even. The enduro weighs about 3-4 lbs less though.

    I'm done arguing with you, this is pointless.

    I was comparing frames not builds. As far as weight goes the 6.6 has much burlier parts and could easily loose 3-4 lbs with more XC parts. I do agree that the cost of the parts are comparable. Spec may have better buying power than IH.
    I paid under $3000 for my bike.

  37. #37
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    well you compared the wrong frame.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfinn
    well you compared the wrong frame.

    it's the only one they show for sale but I doubt the SL frame would be cheaper.

  39. #39
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    That's not the Enduro SL, it's the older style Enduro. I thought they were selling an aluminum SL frameset but the only one listed on their site is the carbon one.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfinn
    That's not the Enduro SL, it's the older style Enduro. I thought they were selling an aluminum SL frameset but the only one listed on their site is the carbon one.

    Either way it doesn't really matter. I think the Enduro is an awesome looking bike and it's performance reviews are top notch. But so are the MK3's and so are the Reigns. Everybodies experience can vary and sometimes it's because of the bike and sometimes it's because of the rider. Since I am a proponent of the MK3, especially the 07 model. I felt that your statment painted a neg picture of the MK3. If you don't agree that's fine.
    I still stick to my original statements that the Enduro SL and the Giant Reign are similarly matched and best compared when properly setup.

  41. #41
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    wormvine & dfinn, congrats guys, the OP asks a godd comparison question about a) the enduro sl and B) the Giant Reign, and you two clowns start arguing over Iron Horses. You have officially used an entire page to kill this guy's thread.

    OP,

    They are both awesome bikes, I think you will be in heaven on wheels with either. I agree that if you want to stick to the lighter side of riding. You will love the specialized. It has everything you could ask for and more. I know that it is quite light and can be made even lighter. I own a Giant Reign and have a Pike 454 coil and it is VERY stiff up front. I am a fan of single crown fork for this type of bike so that draws me to the Reign. I have not ridden the Specialized but imagine it is the bee's knees. I personally could not justify the $1000 more dollars for what more if anything you get on paper with a similarly specced reign versus specialized. I have heard though that the fox rp23 outperforms the spec shock though. Put that extra $1000 though into the reign on high end wheels, suspension (push) and other parts and I think it would embarass the specialized at that point. Don't forget, you can run a 2.25" stroke shock on the reign too to get 6.75" of travel.
    Good luck and test ride test ride test ride!
    Last edited by moshelove; 07-09-2007 at 03:42 AM.
    OVER THE LINE SMOKEY!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by moshelove
    wormvine & dfinn, congrats guys, the OP asks a godd comparison question about a) the enduro sl and B) the Giant Reign, and you two clowns start arguing over Iron Horses. You have officially used an entire page to kill this guy's thread.

    OP,

    They are both awesome bikes, I think you will be in heaven on wheels with either. I agree that if you want to stick to the lighter side of riding. You will love the specialized. It has everything you could ask for and more. I know that it is quite light and can be made even lighter. I own a Giant Reign and have a Pike 454 coil and it is VERY stiff up front. I am a fan of single crown fork for this type of bike so that draws me to the Reign. I have not ridden the Specialized but imagine it is the bee's knees. I personally could not justify the $1000 more dollars for what more if anything you get on paper with a similarly specced reign versus specialized. I have heard though that the fox rp23 outperforms the spec shock though. Put that extra $1000 though into the reign on high end wheels, suspension (push) and other parts and I think it would embarass the specialized at that point. Don't forget, you can run a 2.25" stroke shock on the reign too to get 6.75" of travel.
    Good luck and test ride test ride test ride!
    Thanks to all that posted, I have made my decision.

    Thank-you to whoever posted the link to the article on suspension geometry and characteristics of different suspension designs, it allowed me to understand or put into perspective some of the claims from the spec salesguy. For those interested what I concluded from the article is that no design is perfect some do soome things better then others a lot depends on riding style and personal taste.

    A note to anyone trying to sell me something, do not denigrate/dismiss competitors products. When I tell you that I narrowed down my choice to 2 different manufacturers it means I have spent time testing, researching and test riding. When you denigrate the competition you are telling me that I am an idiot for even considering the alternative and you know what is best for me. This is not the way to build trust in a potential customer.

    In the end I went with the Reign, I do admit that the specialized to me at least, looked a little sexier and rode marginally better (limited carpark test).

    Why did I chose the Reign?

    1) The Giant dealer did an even better price, threw in some decent pedals as well
    2) I wasn't convinced that all the various issues that come with a redesign completely new model have been sorted out. I am not saying that people will not get years of trouble free riding from the enduro, just that I didn't want to take that particular chance. Not at the price.
    3) Spending half the amount that I would pay for the enduro allows me to look at a new bike a lot sooner
    4) The Spec dealer annoyed me with the "the cool kids only ride Specialized" attitude. I hope for me that this wasn't a case of "..cutting of the nose to spite the face.." but I do not think so.
    5) I was put of by a couple of posts from people stating that the dual crown fork dented,damaged the frame in relatively benign woopsies

    Once again, thanks for all your help and opinions

  43. #43
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    I've owned various FSR bikes (4 & 6" Turners) for example and prefer the Maestro hands down for the conditions we have in Colorado. Why? Maestro just doesn't get hung up on square edge hits like FSR does due to it's rearward arcing axle path. Not to mention you get a lot less bob with Maestro with no need for platform valving.

    What don't I like about the Reign?

    Limited shock selection
    Frame is a little heavy compared to some of the competition, but it is a super solid frame.
    BB is a little high with a 160mm fork and big tires (2.4/2.8).

    Provided the Geometry suits you, you bought the bike with the better performing suspension design.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  44. #44
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    i agree with wormvine the maestro suspension is a lot better than fsr, fsr tends to have quite a bit of pedal bob. both bikes are nice but nicer value with the reign and your getting a great deal on it

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 65bug
    Worm,
    The way you have been talking I was under the impression YOU owned a Spesh Enduro. Now that I see you don't, how can you bag on someone else for expressing their opinion???? sheesh. Get two of the same frames, add different components, shocks, tires, bars and they are going to feels like different bikes.
    Myself personally, feel has alot to do with the bike purchase. If it feels great, with quality parts and a reputable name that's good enough for me. I do not follow what everyone else says or does. I do what works for me!
    I am 6'3 250 pounds and it's not alot of fat(34 Waist). A little more weight over the years(41 years old now) but I am back biking and have lost 12 pounds already.
    To swap for a good set of bars and stem 150.00?????????????? WTF, WHERE? A good set of bars is 130.00( DH Monkeylight carbon) online and the stem another 150.00. Labor? Longer cables? It all adds up.
    And Specialized backs up their products too. IT breaks and you get a new one in 48 hours or less.
    The guy that Spesh hired has loads of experience with suspension and has been around for quite a while. I will put my clams into a company that is tops in R&D.
    If it looks beefier it usually is. And I just have the Comp, but man it is sweet. If I really go crazy, it may be the carbon frame next.............WHOOOOHOOOOOOO
    I just have to agree that making changes in cockpit parts is a normal part of fitting a bike, and if that's your reason to choose a given bike, you need to try a different bike shop.
    As was mentioned, most bike shops will swap similar bars/stem/seatpost at no charge, or credit them if you want to upgrade.

    Both Giant and Spesh have excellent warranties and CS, so between them that's not a deciding factor.

    But, lately it seems that Giant is speccing better parts for the same money.

  46. #46
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    cool sebpiot, enjoy your new reign and put up some pics on this thread so we can check it out! I am gonna go ride mine this weekend on some sweet dh hiking trails.
    OVER THE LINE SMOKEY!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebpiot
    In the end I went with the Reign, I do admit that the specialized to me at least, looked a little sexier and rode marginally better (limited carpark test).

    Why did I chose the Reign?

    1) The Giant dealer did an even better price, threw in some decent pedals as well
    2) I wasn't convinced that all the various issues that come with a redesign completely new model have been sorted out. I am not saying that people will not get years of trouble free riding from the enduro, just that I didn't want to take that particular chance. Not at the price.
    3) Spending half the amount that I would pay for the enduro allows me to look at a new bike a lot sooner
    4) The Spec dealer annoyed me with the "the cool kids only ride Specialized" attitude. I hope for me that this wasn't a case of "..cutting of the nose to spite the face.." but I do not think so.
    5) I was put of by a couple of posts from people stating that the dual crown fork dented,damaged the frame in relatively benign woopsies

    Once again, thanks for all your help and opinions
    IMHO

    Good choice and good rationale in making it.

    The Spesh is a sexy looking bike, But I too would be hesitant to buy a first run of anything, especially with the Spesh since it's the first year they are doing suspension.

    No doubt that Spesh would warranty any problems, but I would much rather be riding my bike than having it fixed.
    Mike
    Toronto, Canada
    2016 Trek Farley 7
    2015 RSD Mayor Bluto (sold)
    2014 Giant TCX SLR1
    2012 Giant TCR Advanced SL3

  48. #48
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    Way to wade through all the BS. You will not be dissapointed by your new Reign, they are awesome bikes. I too am a skeptic for first generation suspension components, I'll wait a year before I think about an SL.

  49. #49
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    sebpiot, congrats on the purchase! come show off your reign in the Giant forum, we have a huge reign thread that has been fairly active

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkblazer
    sebpiot, congrats on the purchase! come show off your reign in the Giant forum, we have a huge reign thread that has been fairly active
    I'll be there soon, events have conspired (digital camera is cactus, known sony problem with CCD) so that no pictures for a little while. I must admit the 2006 poo brown is not the prettiest colour but she's mine

    Unfortunately, i seem to have come down with a damned flu so maybe no riding this weekend. Say it ain's so..................................anybody know how to get rid the flu in 48 hours?

    Did I just ask for home grown flu remedies, this should be good.

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