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  1. #1
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    07 Specalised Enduro SL or 06 Giant Reign

    I need the help of you, the "great unwashed".

    I am lookin to upgrade my poor little 05 GT idrive 4, I have outgrown the capabilities of this great little bike and need something more all mountan, that still climbs very well.

    I thought I had decided on a 06 Giant Reign with some great components (SRAM X0, Mavic XL, pike 454 air etc) at a pretty good price. I of course then did a silly thing and test rode the Specialised Enduro SL and thought that the bike rode really well. Unfortunately the LBS won't let me take it outside of the shop carpark (to be fair, not may shops around here do).

    So now, I once again do not know what to do. The Enduro is an extra $1K, but I prefer the ride based on the limited carpark ride.

    Is the FSR suspension that much better then the maestro?
    Has anyone with the Enduro had any problems in tight twisting climbs because of the dual crown, it seems to severely effect the turning circle?
    What would you guys do?

  2. #2
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    My vote is for the Reign. Its a great bike and i dont think the extra 1k for the enduro will be that much better.

  3. #3
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    My vote is that you actually wait and get the '08 enduro SL. From the looks of things, this bike is going to be AMAZING. Also, out of the two listed, I'd still get the Enduro.

  4. #4
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    I have an 07 Enduro SL and one of my buddies rides an 05 Reign. Both bikes are on platforms and for whatever reason, I can't climb anything technical on his bike... maybe it's just me but the cockpit seems really tight (kind of like my Heckler). The SL is a very capable climber for what it is.

    I would prefer the Reign for the FR side of AM (seems more solid/durable to me) and prefer the SL for the XC side of AM (way better climber; more nimble even on the slack setting). Your results may differ depending on what you want out of it.

    If you do decide on an SL, I'd wait for the 08's as well.

  5. #5
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    not sure if other SL guys are having the problem, but i was at my LBS and was told they are prone to lose air in the fork if left sitting for extended time periods (week or so) and they have had a some already blow out the seals on the forks.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebpiot
    I need the help of you, the "great unwashed".

    I am lookin to upgrade my poor little 05 GT idrive 4, I have outgrown the capabilities of this great little bike and need something more all mountan, that still climbs very well.

    I thought I had decided on a 06 Giant Reign with some great components (SRAM X0, Mavic XL, pike 454 air etc) at a pretty good price. I of course then did a silly thing and test rode the Specialised Enduro SL and thought that the bike rode really well. Unfortunately the LBS won't let me take it outside of the shop carpark (to be fair, not may shops around here do).

    So now, I once again do not know what to do. The Enduro is an extra $1K, but I prefer the ride based on the limited carpark ride.

    Is the FSR suspension that much better then the maestro?
    Has anyone with the Enduro had any problems in tight twisting climbs because of the dual crown, it seems to severely effect the turning circle?
    What would you guys do?
    Who said FSR was better than Maestro? Specialized is a great bike but IMO they are overpriced for comparable parts spec. Bike comparisons are tricky and usually skewed in some way because of different shocks and fork settings. The only true way to compare it is to have identical parts specs. Most people buy the bike that fits and feels the best initially. Others do research, read reviews, read more reviews, test ride, then commit to perfecting the bikes fit and feel because they believe in the frame and it's suspension design.
    FWIW, the PIKE 454 is a great fork, tried and true!
    Last edited by wormvine; 07-07-2007 at 09:44 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudmojo
    I have an 07 Enduro SL and one of my buddies rides an 05 Reign. Both bikes are on platforms and for whatever reason, I can't climb anything technical on his bike... maybe it's just me but the cockpit seems really tight (kind of like my Heckler). The SL is a very capable climber for what it is.

    I would prefer the Reign for the FR side of AM (seems more solid/durable to me) and prefer the SL for the XC side of AM (way better climber; more nimble even on the slack setting). Your results may differ depending on what you want out of it.

    If you do decide on an SL, I'd wait for the 08's as well.
    Thanks for the reply, I am getting too old for too much freeride and so will defiitely will be leaning towards the XC of all mountain but still want to be able to take the 5-6 foot drops etc.

    There have been 2 people mentioning that I should wait for the 2008 model, what specfically do you think is the most compelling reason. Is it because it is the second generation of the integrated philosophy (call me cynical but I think it's more to do with margins then a better bike, but I digress). Very interested to hear your opinions

    Thanks

  8. #8
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    Hi,
    Well, here's my two cents: I looked at both of these bikes as well and got to ride them both.
    I personally liked the Specialized much better and purchased the Enduro SL Comp. I love this bike and have had zero problems with it.
    You get six inches of travel front and rear. You get a totally adjustable shock that changes from I think its 150mm down to 110mm with the flip of a lever! This completely changes the geometry for quicker steering and better climbing! You get a triple clamp front fork that is Ultra stiff! No flexing at all! This bike handles like its on rails and I started off weighing 250 pounds when riding it.
    The shocks are integrated to work together and the engineering shows. The frame is a work of art with a lifetime guarantee. The shocks are also guaranteed.
    The rear suspension climbs better then anything I have ever felt and it does not bob at all! The rear shock has a quick flip lever for compression dampening. You can go from soft to very firm with a flip!
    The only differnce with the 08 model is a bit lighter triple clamps up front, but the linkage in the rear went from a cold forged alloy link to a different material. I think Magnesium. I like the aluminum myself.
    I do not like the seat on the 08 or the white handlebars and front forks. Regardless, this bike can take anything I can throw at it.
    Worth every penny so far. This bike needs to be assembled properly and I think this is where some consumers have problems. If the dealers do not set it up right you will have may have problems.
    This bike does EVERYTHING VERY WELL and to my does not feel lke a 31 pound bike at all when riding it!
    Let us know what you go with!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 65bug
    Hi,
    Well, here's my two cents: I looked at both of these bikes as well and got to ride them both.
    I personally liked the Specialized much better and purchased the Enduro SL Comp. I love this bike and have had zero problems with it.
    You get six inches of travel front and rear. You get a totally adjustable shock that changes from I think its 150mm down to 110mm with the flip of a lever! This completely changes the geometry for quicker steering and better climbing! You get a triple clamp front fork that is Ultra stiff! No flexing at all! This bike handles like its on rails and I started off weighing 250 pounds when riding it.
    The shocks are integrated to work together and the engineering shows. The frame is a work of art with a lifetime guarantee. The shocks are also guaranteed.
    The rear suspension climbs better then anything I have ever felt and it does not bob at all! The rear shock has a quick flip lever for compression dampening. You can go from soft to very firm with a flip!
    The only differnce with the 08 model is a bit lighter triple clamps up front, but the linkage in the rear went from a cold forged alloy link to a different material. I think Magnesium. I like the aluminum myself.
    I do not like the seat on the 08 or the white handlebars and front forks. Regardless, this bike can take anything I can throw at it.
    Worth every penny so far. This bike needs to be assembled properly and I think this is where some consumers have problems. If the dealers do not set it up right you will have may have problems.
    This bike does EVERYTHING VERY WELL and to my does not feel lke a 31 pound bike at all when riding it!
    Let us know what you go with!
    So you have listed everything about the Spec but nothing about the Giant.
    Giant has a lifetime frame warranty. Everything else is top notch on the Giant. And it is a $1000 less. PIKE air U-turn is adjustable too unless it is just the air. 140mm-110mm. But I looked at giant's archive and no 2005 or 2006 or 2007 was spec'd with a PIKE of any kind.
    Doesn't matter.
    The Giant should come with a Fox RP3. Easily sent to PUSH for a custom valving when it needs a overhaul.

    The Giant is easily a match for the Enduro. Dual crown fork is great. But overkill on a AM bike. I kill it on my 66sl and notice no flex. Seb said he was more on the XC side of things anyway.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudmojo
    I have an 07 Enduro SL and one of my buddies rides an 05 Reign. Both bikes are on platforms and for whatever reason, I can't climb anything technical on his bike... maybe it's just me but the cockpit seems really tight (kind of like my Heckler). The SL is a very capable climber for what it is.

    I would prefer the Reign for the FR side of AM (seems more solid/durable to me) and prefer the SL for the XC side of AM (way better climber; more nimble even on the slack setting). Your results may differ depending on what you want out of it.

    If you do decide on an SL, I'd wait for the 08's as well.
    Platform shocks don't help you climb technical trails better unless you have a single pivot design. Movement of the suspension is crucial to keeping the wheel planted in rough climbing situations. Even though the Giant has a platform shock it is best left off when climbing technical trails. The Maestro suspension should pedal well without a platform. The only time I would use a platform would be on a fireroad but still unneccessary. That's the whole point of the VPP type suspensions. Smooth tractable power without the need for a platform.

    I have nothing against the Enduro and i don't own a Giant. But for all the positive reviews for the Enduro, no one has truly given any credible reason why the Enduro is a better buy or actually performs better head to head all the while keeping in mind the Giant is $1000 less.

  11. #11
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    Maybe I should have been more specific... what I meant to say was that both bikes were equipped with platform pedals not platform shocks. I don't even know what a platform shock is?

    I looked at the Reign and the SL side by side and the rear suspension looks almost identical to me but then again, I'm no suspension savant.

    I would have bought a Reign myself (so I can funnel my $$$ into other toys) if my buddy didn't buy one first

  12. #12
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    this is why i love mtbr.com, the community is great.

    He is a different way to look at things, how about people that ride a reign or an enduro tell us what they Don't like about their bikes.

    I know that sometimes it's hard to admit to yourself that there is something you don't like especially after you have just forked over a large wad of cash.

  13. #13
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    this is why i love mtbr.com, the community is great.

    He is a different way to look at things, how about people that ride a reign or an enduro tell us what they Don't like about their bikes.

    I know that sometimes it's hard to admit to yourself that there is something you don't like especially after you have just forked over a large wad of cash.

  14. #14
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    ... and if we just ...

    No, I did not list everything about the Specialized. I forgot to mention that the rear shock is adjustable on the frame too for different geometry
    I listed alot about the Specialized because that's what I own and am familiar with. After riding both bikes, the spesh impressed me so much I did not waste anymore time with the Giant.
    The Enduro is ALOT OF BIKE FOR THE MONEY. In my opinion WAY MORE BIKE then the Giant.
    I love the roominess in the cockpit of the Enduro too. I have never liked riding a hunched over bike where all your weight is on your wrists.
    The Enduro really impressed me because it feels like my old BMX racing bikes in terms of rider positioning. Hands up higher and body down a little lower. a more balanced feeling
    Hey, get em both out there like I did and ride them back to back. ALOT MORE TECHNOLOGY with the Specialized

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 65bug
    No, I did not list everything about the Specialized. I forgot to mention that the rear shock is adjustable on the frame too for different geometry
    I listed alot about the Specialized because that's what I own and am familiar with. After riding both bikes, the spesh impressed me so much I did not waste anymore time with the Giant.
    The Enduro is ALOT OF BIKE FOR THE MONEY. In my opinion WAY MORE BIKE then the Giant.
    I love the roominess in the cockpit of the Enduro too. I have never liked riding a hunched over bike where all your weight is on your wrists.
    The Enduro really impressed me because it feels like my old BMX racing bikes in terms of rider positioning. Hands up higher and body down a little lower. a more balanced feeling
    Hey, get em both out there like I did and ride them back to back. ALOT MORE TECHNOLOGY with the Specialized
    Hey 65, You really like the roominess of the cockpit. All those things can be adjusted on the giant as well. You have to do more than just choose the same size. That is subjective. You have to make sure effective top tube, seat tube, head tube angle, etc are similar. As for the body positioning goes, Shorter stem and taller riser bars cures that quick. Your main arguments are solely based on cockpit and feel which can be changed drasticly by changing bars and stem. (ie 50mm stem vs 130mm stem, a difference of over 3 inches).
    I agree rear shock adjustability is a plus. But probably not a $1000 plus. The fork and shock of the spec aren't really any better vs a PIKE and RP3. The other components on both bikes are top notch. And the BMX feel of the spec can be easily replicated on the Giant.
    And higher technology doesn't always mean better. It can be less reliable.
    So nothing you have said about the spec's pros justify a $1000 more.

    But like I said earlier. Most people will pick the bike that is initially setup to their liking.
    Here's 8 reviews of the Reign 0 giving it a rating of 4.88/5.
    http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Allmtn_F...t_127847.shtml
    Here's 18 reviews of the Spec Enduro Expert giving it a rating of 4.72/5.
    http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Allmtn_F...t_128564.shtml
    Last edited by wormvine; 07-08-2007 at 11:24 AM.

  16. #16
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    get a Mojo

  17. #17
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    I'll second that!

  18. #18
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    Can't really comment on the Giant, but a few months ago I was torn between a SL and a SC Heckler. I went with the Heckler in the end as the first gen SL left me a bit uncomfortable. The Heckler is highly rated and I managed to demo one to be sure. Standard components and single pivot simplicity also pluses in my books since I'm not much of a wrench fiend. I've been following the forums here on the SL since, there is also a poll on reliability somewhere so have a look to see if it helps, I have read quite a few posts about problems with the first gen suspension on the SL, what is hard to tell is how many people are fine with it, apart from that it does seem to be a great bike.

    On the flipside my decision did backfire a bit since I'm now 3 months in the waiting for my SC frame. If I had been told this from outset I'm pretty sure my impuse buying would have swung me back in the SL's direction.

  19. #19
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    ... and if we just ...

    Worm,
    So, why would I even consider buying a bike then changing the bars and stem to make it fit me better and or feel better? A total waste of money in my opinion! Then we are not talking a 1000.00 difference are we?
    Then, would it not be better to just buy a frame and build it from there? OF course, that would be even more money then.
    Just because YOU don't think the extra 1000.00 is worth it does'nt mean it's not. Apparently you are in the minority!
    The reviews you put in your response clearly show that! There's 8 giant Reign reviews to 18 Specialized reviews. And thats just the Enduro Expert model! There are two other Enduro models as well .
    Both are great bikes and have components that are very durable. I have just always prefered Specialized over Giant. I have compared them a few times and it's always Specialized!
    Some like Ford's, some like Chevy's.............................

  20. #20
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    Any decent bike shop

    Quote Originally Posted by 65bug
    Worm,
    So, why would I even consider buying a bike then changing the bars and stem to make it fit me better and or feel better? A total waste of money in my opinion! Then we are not talking a 1000.00 difference are we?
    Then, would it not be better to just buy a frame and build it from there? OF course, that would be even more money then.
    Just because YOU don't think the extra 1000.00 is worth it does'nt mean it's not. Apparently you are in the minority!
    The reviews you put in your response clearly show that! There's 8 giant Reign reviews to 18 Specialized reviews. And thats just the Enduro Expert model! There are two other Enduro models as well .
    Both are great bikes and have components that are very
    durable. I have just always prefered Specialized over Giant. I have compared them a few times and it's always Specialized!
    Some like Ford's, some like Chevy's.............................
    Any decent bike shop will swap stems/bars to get the right cockpit size free of charge. His point was the complaint was about how cramped the Giant was, and that could be easily remedied by going to a larger size (the Giants have massive standover) or a different stem.

    Dave

  21. #21
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    Dave,
    I have asked that before on a road bike and was told there would be a charge and they could not just swap out parts. Alot of bikes come with the parts already installed. What are they gonna do with pre-installed parts with scratches on them and no packaging?
    If they can send them back to the bike company for credit and are willing to do that, hey I will try that again next time!
    I checked out the reviews on the other Specialized Enduro's too:
    1. 4.88 on the comp
    2. 5.0 on the pro
    I am out............................................... .......to ride.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 65bug
    Worm,
    So, why would I even consider buying a bike then changing the bars and stem to make it fit me better and or feel better? A total waste of money in my opinion! Then we are not talking a 1000.00 difference are we?
    Then, would it not be better to just buy a frame and build it from there? OF course, that would be even more money then.
    Just because YOU don't think the extra 1000.00 is worth it does'nt mean it's not. Apparently you are in the minority!
    The reviews you put in your response clearly show that! There's 8 giant Reign reviews to 18 Specialized reviews. And thats just the Enduro Expert model! There are two other Enduro models as well .
    Both are great bikes and have components that are very durable. I have just always prefered Specialized over Giant. I have compared them a few times and it's always Specialized!
    Some like Ford's, some like Chevy's.............................

    I think the real question would be, Why would someone choose one bike over the other solely based on how it initially fit based on OEM parts? If 1000 personal reviews and 10 magazines reviews said that a particular bike rocked and you tried it out and it felt cramped would you not see if you could tweak the fit if that is what you wanted.
    So a decent set of handlebars and stem should cost you about $150.00. You sell the old parts on Ebay to offset the new parts. I have done that many times to save on upgrades. Most experienced bike buyers expect to change bars or stems to perfect their fit. It's not uncommon.

    Both are great bikes and have components that are very durable. I have just always prefered Specialized over Giant. I have compared them a few times and it's always Specialized!
    Some like Ford's, some like Chevy's
    I have no beef with people who have personal preferences but I do object to subjective reviews based on little more than personal preference.

    As far as the reviews go, Both were rated practically equal. I didn't even go back to the older reigns or other models.

    Also, it's practically never cheaper to buy a frame and build it up. You can always buy a full build and sell off the parts you don't want and upgrade the ones you do. I bought a full 06' bike on closeout and sold the frame and fork, bought a new 07 frame and fork and saved at least $800.00 over a full 07 model. To build it from scratch would have cost a $1000 more than the retail price.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 65bug
    Dave,
    I have asked that before on a road bike and was told there would be a charge and they could not just swap out parts. Alot of bikes come with the parts already installed. What are they gonna do with pre-installed parts with scratches on them and no packaging?
    If they can send them back to the bike company for credit and are willing to do that, hey I will try that again next time!
    I checked out the reviews on the other Specialized Enduro's too:
    1. 4.88 on the comp
    2. 5.0 on the pro
    I am out............................................... .......to ride.

    Some bike shops will sell these parts online as OEM takeoffs like ThePath bike shop or Chain Reaction Cycles in the UK. Hell "The path" will even pull a frame off a full build and sell it as a frameset. It's important IMO that a prospective buyer have as many facts and options explained to them as possible before they make a decision. But I can accept that some people just need someone to say here's 3 bikes pick your favorite.

    Here's 27 more reviews of the Reign 1 giving it a 4.89/5!
    http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Freeride...t_124717.shtml
    55 more reviews on the Reign 2 giving it a 4.53/5
    http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Freeride...t_124718.shtml
    Last edited by wormvine; 07-08-2007 at 06:36 PM.

  24. #24
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    I bought a SL this spring. I really like it. It does everything well. I was coming off a Iron Horse MK3 and the SL is better in every way.

    I've never really ridden a Reign so I can't compare but one thing that would definitely sway me into buying Specialized again is their Warranty and Customer Service. I've had some issues with the fork and shock but every time Specialized has fed ex'd new parts and they have been here 2 days later. Will Giant/Fox/Rock Shox do that for you?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfinn
    I bought a SL this spring. I really like it. It does everything well. I was coming off a Iron Horse MK3 and the SL is better in every way.

    I've never really ridden a Reign so I can't compare but one thing that would definitely sway me into buying Specialized again is their Warranty and Customer Service. I've had some issues with the fork and shock but every time Specialized has fed ex'd new parts and they have been here 2 days later. Will Giant/Fox/Rock Shox do that for you?

    What model MK3? Sport, Comp, Expert, Team. 05, 06, 07' ?
    An IH MK3 is a solid bike that pedals like a champ and descends like a dream. I have read many, many reviews of the bike and have owned 2 of them. The reviews from actual owners have been outstanding. But some of the cheaper models had less than ideal forks/shocks. It's so shady to say the SL was better in every way. Comparing it how. I know for a fact that when set up properly the MK3 has little or no bob and climbs like a mountain goat and bombs on the downhill. What fork did the Mk3 have and what travel did it have? What rear shock? How do their geometries compare? Opinions like that are worthless and prove nothing. Step up or step off!
    Last edited by wormvine; 07-08-2007 at 08:23 PM.

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