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  1. #1
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    Winter Motorized Use at Jodhpur MX Area Needs Your Input!

    Alaska State Sno-X Lions Club (snowmachine racing) are proposing to open the Jodhpur MX track to motorize use during winter. There is currently no supervision or noise restrictions from any organized group, including parks and rec when the MX area is open!
    Your single track trails and ski trails may be poached by an increasing number of motorized vehicles. Please take a moment and submit the survey, the outcome could have major implications on your riding environment at Kincaid!
    FYI The MX area has been closed over winter since 2008 because of unauthorized motorized use outside of the MX boundry.

    Find the survey at:

    Alaska State Sno-X Lions Club: Jodhpur Motocross Park Winter Use Survey

  2. #2
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    We haven't seen much of any trail poaching in the summer by the MX track users (once or twice that I can remember). Is there a reason to think it would be different in the winter? Was there a history of poaching the ski trails back when the MX track was open? I don't recall it, but I don't ski at Kincaid nearly as much as up on Hillside.

    I am just trying to think whether this is something that we would be against. Is it worth trying to stop something legjt by another user group? Sort of a "pick your battles" type of thing. Maybe put the energy into pushing for some level of oversight and responsible party if they are allowed to open it. Make it a condition that they install physical blocks across the bigger trail access points?

  3. #3
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
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    Thanks for the heads up. If they put up some sort of fence or barricade and make the penalties steep(forfeiture of machine + fine), I'm all for it. It's an exciting sport and a local venue would be good for them. If they can't keep the snowmachiners from poaching though, keep it closed.

  4. #4
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    This could be a slippery slope. If you hav'nt heard, STA is requesting permision from MOA to build more single track and a skils area in Kincaid. The skils area, and possibly a pump track / small dirt jumps would be in the vicinity of the Jodphur parking area. One of the ideas being that some of the moto crossers or their kids may be interested in the no motorized skills / jump area as well. We have to go through the public process, which includes the Sandlake Community Council. We also need letters of support from local organizations, the Lions Club included. It would be great if we could work togeather to support eachothers goals. As I understand the Loins Club has plans to improve the moto cross track including upgrading the existing non functional fence at the track. I urge you to take the survay, but keep in mind that we may be looking for support from the Lions Club for our projects.
    litespeed's break

  5. #5
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    The lions club really tries to be good neighbor. Like some bikers/skiers and runners there are bad motorized apples as well.

    Look to the STA to represent our interests. Thank you!

  6. #6
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    There has been a lot of winter motorized poaching when the area was opened, thus a major reason it is closed now. Motorized trail poaching during summer hours has somewhat decreased because of the efforts of the neighbors and P and R to attempt to get the area under control, including the addition of a camperhost, locking the gate at night and threats to close the MX track permanently.

    It was not that long ago that the MX area was used 24/7/365 and it was common to see burned abandoned cars in the Jodhpur parking lot and surrounding parkland. The recent addition of the STA to the Jodhpur area is enjoying the hard work of concerned park users and neighbors and may be unaware of how this area was abused in the past.

    The Anchorage Racing Lions only supervise and hold a special use permit on a race day. P and R does no supervising of the area.

    APD does not have a high priority of catching motorized poachers and usually only warnings are issued. It is almost impossible to ID the poachers.

    I apprecite the diplomat stance of the STA. However, I prefer not to hear and smell the 2 stroke choke in every corner of our park, it is bad enough in summer. Next they may want to expand into the Sand Box, increase summer hours and ? Thats a slippry slope. ARL track improvements are relying on a state grant and may not be that promising.

    No need to be for or against this proposal we just need to hear from non Sno X users. Most likely the Sno X users have submitted multiple positive feedback comments and will show up in numbers at the park board meeting.
    Some tips for when the STA re-starts the public process if the propasal is controversal: send a mailer out the Friday before the busy Christmas holidays, then schedule a Park board hearing less than 3 weeks after and show up at Sand Lake Comm Council unannoucned as to not be on the public agenda.
    Happy New Year.

  7. #7
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    Just to clarify, I have only lived in the Sandlake are for 6yrs. I do not know the history of use or abuse of the moto x area. I was super bummed to see dirt bikes out on the new single track in Kincaid this summer. I would like to see improved fencing and signage, as well as higher penalties for abuse. As for my comments in my previous post, those are my personal opinions and not necessarily those of STA. I believe that all user groups should have a convenient place to recreate, wether the current facility is the right choice, well thats will be up to the community.
    litespeed's break

  8. #8
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    Be careful what you wish for here, stirring up a controversy may backlash on current use. The Kincaid MX track has been there since the mid 70's, before Kincaid became a world class XC ski area. The local nordic ski community is a powerful organization that has done a lot to improve XC skiing in the Anchorage area and due to the advocacy of a few they have generously agreed to share the Kincaid area with bikes, walkers, hikers, etc. Remember, the STA trails cross the ski trails, in effect the bikes are "poaching" on ski trails. Everybody needs to have a place to recreate in Anchorage, there is no reason to exclude anyone, take a wait and see attitude and hopefully people will do the right thing. As far as I can tell, bikers are staying off the ski trails, should the MX track be open to winter use we can only guess that those users will be like other user groups and stay in their designated user areas.

  9. #9
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    Im an avid mountain biker in the summer, and avid snowmachiner in the winter. No reason that the area cannot be shared equally among the groups. The MX area is an area which has some very unique opportunities from a racing standpoint.

    Enacting laws, fences, parameters and rules will not stop the idiots who decide to poach trails. Unfortunately, it only takes one to give ANY community a black eye when it comes to areas your able to play in. I see it in the backcountry all the time when idiots decide to poach areas that arent open before the CNF officially opens, or they just decide to poach out of own free will because they dont care.


    I hate poachers just as much....or maybe even more than most avid bikers.

  10. #10
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    Set up a perimeter

    Make it real obvious where snowmachines are allowed, and not allowed, and I think most of the problem will be handled. Until the new STA trails were put in, I never rode from that lot. The first time I ended up on a trail the mx bikes were rallying and I had to get out of the way. I actually rode over the fence back into the non-death zone to find my way over to bike trails. The more the user groups get along, the more progress we can have. I was just talking to a buddy about hillside before sta, and Llama being the way up, and gasline rip the way down. And like I said before, I never went to Kincaid before as it is on the opposite end of town, and it wasn't that great until the new trails were put in. Let's just get along everyone.
    "Having lack of self-preservation makes biking more fun."

  11. #11
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    My car got pamphlet-ed yesterday in the Jodphur lot. It seams someone is really campaigning against the potential winter motorized use.
    litespeed's break

  12. #12
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nojoke View Post
    .....Enacting laws, fences, parameters and rules will not stop the idiots who decide to poach trails......

    How would a maintained fence fail to stop them?

  13. #13
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    Probably...

    The people living across the street there. I can't imagine they appreciate the motocross sounds, let alone snowmachine sounds all winter.
    "Having lack of self-preservation makes biking more fun."

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach View Post
    How would a maintained fence fail to stop them?
    Unless its a 10ft high fence with barbwire it wont stop much when taking into a 2-3 ft snow level.

    If someone is riding or attempting to ride in an illegal area they will ride whether there is a fence there or not.

    I saw 2 guys on the Kincaid STA this summer on Motocross bikes. Local laws, Rules, the safety of other mountain bikes or posted trail signs were not of their concern either, even when confronted.
    Last edited by nojoke; 12-30-2012 at 11:41 PM.

  15. #15
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    As a nordic skier, cyclist both summer and winter, and someone who rides motorcycles and snowmachines, I have heard the grumblings of all the user groups. The moto and snowmo folks are bummed they don't have anything to ride near town (they can't put on a race up on the Powerline Trail), so the Kincaid area serves a purpose however limited it may be. I used to groom for NSAA and built a course for the snow X races back in the 90's with a Piston Bully. I don't recall any issues with them getting onto ski trails. We had more issues with teenagers driving 4X4's on them. Mostly I heard the folks living in the area didn't like the noise. Understandable as well-it's not the ideal location for a track, but the only one they have.
    If I remember correctly the mx area has been operating under "temporary" status since the master plan was written in 1983. I also get the idea they are more or less just barerly tolerated as a user group, and not particularly welcomed, regardless of how long they have been there. I like the idea of them racing/riding there, despite the few jack*sses who can ruin it for any group. Education and heavy fines for riding outside the designated area should be required. Currently I don't believe there are any fines in place. I do recall having to take the Piston Bully out on the trails to pull out a Ford Bronco a teenager had gotten stuck on the lighted loop. We charged him for the time to clean up and re-groom the ruts. I think it was about $1500. How about permanent loss of the snowmachine being a heavy enough fine?
    Speedway Cycles owner http://fatbackbikes.com

  16. #16
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    Just get NSAA involved and notified. They pretty much own Kincaid and have a ton of power and influence as to the decisions out there. Considering that parks and rec has let them determine user groups for winter trail use, thier opinion and position will rule the day. Anything that remotely threatens the sanctity of thier precious grooming will never happen. Hell, we may even convince them to adopt a position similar to AK state parks and let us ride thier groomed trails if we use tires 3.8" or wider.....

  17. #17
    is buachail foighneach me
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    I think this could be a potential positive for the nordic ski community. A Sno-X course could be designed to utilize a lot of the same features and layout as a pretty sick Nordix course...

  18. #18
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    According to their latest newsletter I received today, NSAA has come online in opposition to the proposal.

    Thanks
    Jeff

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