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  1. #1
    KuskoRiverCruiser
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    "We don't need no steenking pogies"

    Actually...pogies are OK...got'em - use'em occassionally...with a quality VBL mitt and some of the new windproof fabrics you can accomplish much of the same with less!

    If you've biked in 'real' cold, windy conditions...a fairing is indespensible and can be the difference between riding and NOT...my old fairing, 80s vintage, is somewhat obsolete...but working on a new one for the Wildfire and Pugs layups...mostly off of Jones and Mary bars.

    http://www.zzipper.com/index.html is laying them up...

    Any other winter riders out there with fairing / windshield experience?

    Martin
    Martin
    [SIZE=1]"The pursuit of truth and adventure is far more noble a task than looking for work", [/SIZE]
    http://fatbikealaska.blogspot.com/

  2. #2
    Beware of Doggerel
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    No experience

    I've never used a fairing but it seems like a really good idea to me. I ride with very lightly insulated but wind proof pogies and usually nothing more than liner gloves. This set up is comfy down to -10 to -20. I've never ridden in "real cold" with wind and all, just "Anchorage cold" and some other bits of cold here an there. But it really seems like this fairing thing is a great idea. Over bundling against the wind makes me sweat, which then makes me cold. A working body makes a lot of heat and if you can take the wind out of the system then dressing for the cold becomes a lot simpler. I've found that something as simple as narrower bars can make me feel warmer, on the rivers. Just cutting down on the frontal cross section exposed to the wind seems to warm everything up a bit. Its really interesting. I imagine that when you have more wind and colder temps the difference can be even bigger.
    Last year I mounted my sleeping pad and some other light gear on the bars out in front of my pogies for a layer of wind protection. I think it helped, not as good as a fairing of course, but better than without the gear.
    Can't wait to hear how the fairing works for you.

    Adam
    I wanna say I'm sorry for stuff I haven't done yet, things will shortly get completely out of hand --T.M.G.

  3. #3
    Wood chips are stupid
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    don't use them...

    I have never used pogies. They are always in my way and are to big. No need for them. In fact, I think they are over priced and ugly.
    I have a question. My hands get cold all the time when I ride in the winter. Does anybody have any suggestions on how to keep them warm? Thanks.

    akdeluxe
    "Trust me,you don't want a big baby."

    JT

  4. #4
    FatBike Fiend
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    Cold digits? Try one of these.

    Quote Originally Posted by akdeluxe
    I have never used pogies. They are always in my way and are to big. No need for them. In fact, I think they are over priced and ugly.
    I have a question. My hands get cold all the time when I ride in the winter. Does anybody have any suggestions on how to keep them warm? Thanks.

    akdeluxe
    Stole this from one of mikesee's posts from last year. I thinks it's Dawes Wilson in the '98 Iditasport. He's probably got heated grips, a vanity mirror, ash tray, cup holder, and OnStar. I think I'll stick to pogies though as we only get unreal cold around these parts
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
    KuskoRiverCruiser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam
    I've never used a fairing but it seems like a really good idea to me. I ride with very lightly insulated but wind proof pogies and usually nothing more than liner gloves. This set up is comfy down to -10 to -20. I've never ridden in "real cold" with wind and all, just "Anchorage cold" and some other bits of cold here an there. But it really seems like this fairing thing is a great idea. Over bundling against the wind makes me sweat, which then makes me cold. A working body makes a lot of heat and if you can take the wind out of the system then dressing for the cold becomes a lot simpler. I've found that something as simple as narrower bars can make me feel warmer, on the rivers. Just cutting down on the frontal cross section exposed to the wind seems to warm everything up a bit. Its really interesting. I imagine that when you have more wind and colder temps the difference can be even bigger.
    Last year I mounted my sleeping pad and some other light gear on the bars out in front of my pogies for a layer of wind protection. I think it helped, not as good as a fairing of course, but better than without the gear.
    Can't wait to hear how the fairing works for you.

    Adam

    Adam,

    I think all your inferences regarding fairing performance are correct and 'right on'...the fairing accomplishes all of the above...removing the wind, esp. off the torso, changes the whole equation. DOES allow less clothing during hard work and easier temp regulation.

    My reference to 'real cold' is relative ...not trying to put another persons cold down as it can all freeze you dead...but there is a huge difference between riding interior minus temps, low humidity and no wind vs. minus temps, high humidity, northerlies coming unabated off the Arctic ocean. Wind is the key factor...even riding in low minuses with no wind - apparent wind at 10mph can have a huge effect.

    Limiting the effects of respiration during heavy work periods can control heat loss...i.e. the use of Vapor Barrier Shirts, Socks and Gloves has been the key for me...I don't leave home without them.

    Before I knew any better... in the mid eighties, riding a Ross Mountain Bike on the Tanana River not far from Bareflanks (I'm dating myself here!), I found myself laboring through soft snow and sweating myassoff. It was ~ minus 25 (not too cold, no wind) and before I knew it all my clothing (gloves, jacket and pants) were frozen solid...I would walk most of the way home as my frozen garments were unmanagable...had to peel/chip my frozen gloves off the bar ends!

    Since then I use a VBL religiously...
    Last edited by qayaq_alaska; 11-16-2006 at 03:02 AM.
    Martin
    [SIZE=1]"The pursuit of truth and adventure is far more noble a task than looking for work", [/SIZE]
    http://fatbikealaska.blogspot.com/

  6. #6
    Beware of Doggerel
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    I understood what you meant by "real cold" and I agree completely. I felt some of that "real cold" crossing rainy pass last year and it was like nothing I have ever felt before, simply unreal. The ambient temp was reasonable, but with the wind the air would burn exposed skin like hot metal. Nothing that ever even remotely happens around Anchorage.

    I'm with you on the VB stuff but it seems to be an aquired taste. I love my VB sock setup and would never ride in the cold without it. Other folks seem to hate the whole VB thing. I haven't had much luck with the VB top though. I'm going to keep experimenting with it this winter.

    Adam

    Quote Originally Posted by qayaq_alaska
    Adam,

    I think all your inferences regarding fairing performance are correct and 'right on'...the fairing accomplishes all of the above...removing the wind, esp. off the torso, changes the whole equation. DOES allow less clothing during work loads and easier temp regulation.

    My reference to 'real cold' is relative ...not trying to put another persons cold down as it can all freeze you dead...but there is a huge difference between riding interior minus temps, low humidity and no wind vs. minus temps, high humidity, northerlies coming unabated off the Arctic ocean. Wind is the key factor...even riding in low minuses with no wind - apparent wind at 10mph can have a huge effect.

    Limiting the effects of respiration during heavy work periods can control heat loss...i.e. the use of Vapor Barrier Shirts, Socks and Gloves has been the key for me...I don't leave home without them.

    Before I knew any better... in the mid eighties, riding a Ross Mountain Bike on the Tanana River not far from Bareflanks (I'm dating myself here!), I found myself laboring through soft snow and sweating myassoff. It was ~ minus 25 (not too cold, no wind) and before I knew it all my clothing (gloves, jacket and pants) were frozen solid...I would walk most of the way home as my frozen garments were unmanagable...had to peel/chip my frozen gloves off the bar ends!

    Since then I use a VBL religiously...
    I wanna say I'm sorry for stuff I haven't done yet, things will shortly get completely out of hand --T.M.G.

  7. #7
    old format's better
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    Now I'm confused....

    " I felt some of that "real cold" crossing rainy pass last year and it was like nothing I have ever felt before, simply unreal."
    Adam

    ...so which was it, Adam, real or unreal???? I'm currently phloundering in the phleshpots of Phoenix at a real AND unreal 91above the zero!!!!!

    Pray for me.....

    Ken

    ps: pogies for sale, cheap!
    No matter where you go, there you are.

  8. #8
    Beware of Doggerel
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    Ken,

    Feenix huh. Sounds nice. The cold was really cold in an unreal way, but in fact the question you raise is as old as humanity itself. You always seem to hit on the deep stuff. What is the nature of reality? Is perception reality or perhaps, as in quantum physics, the very act of perception alters the nature of reality itself. Ever since man first looked at stuff and asked what the heck is this stuff these questions have plagued us. Ya dig. Hope that helps.

    Adam
    I wanna say I'm sorry for stuff I haven't done yet, things will shortly get completely out of hand --T.M.G.

  9. #9
    old format's better
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    Uh......

    "What is the nature of reality? Is perception reality or perhaps, as in quantum physics, the very act of perception alters the nature of reality itself."
    Adam




    .......like, um....fersure!!!!!!!!

    Ken (I think, therfore I'm him, eh?)
    No matter where you go, there you are.

  10. #10
    Wood chips are stupid
    Reputation: akdeluxe's Avatar
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    what gives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam
    Ken,

    Feenix huh. Sounds nice. The cold was really cold in an unreal way, but in fact the question you raise is as old as humanity itself. You always seem to hit on the deep stuff. What is the nature of reality? Is perception reality or perhaps, as in quantum physics, the very act of perception alters the nature of reality itself. Ever since man first looked at stuff and asked what the heck is this stuff these questions have plagued us. Ya dig. Hope that helps.

    Adam

    Hey Adam,
    I don't understand why you think you have to dumb things down for us.

    akdeluxe
    "Trust me,you don't want a big baby."

    JT

  11. #11
    mtbr member
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    Seeing that pic Wildfire posted and a few others over the years ( I think Iíve seen pics of Bob Fourney with a fairing) I always thought it was pretty goofy idea, but Iím kind of digging it now.

    Seems like it could also work in your favor with a tailwind. Couldnít be any worse than without one in a headwind? It would also be nice to hold crap up there like the way Adam piles beanie babies between the dash and windshield of his car.
    Martin, whatís the approximate cost of something like that and how durable to you expect this to be?

  12. #12
    KuskoRiverCruiser
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbasinger
    Seeing that pic Wildfire posted and a few others over the years ( I think Iíve seen pics of Bob Fourney with a fairing) I always thought it was pretty goofy idea, but Iím kind of digging it now.

    Seems like it could also work in your favor with a tailwind. Couldnít be any worse than without one in a headwind? It would also be nice to hold crap up there like the way Adam piles beanie babies between the dash and windshield of his car.
    Martin, whatís the approximate cost of something like that and how durable to you expect this to be?
    Pete,

    As mentioned, I haven't used a fairing for years...the one I do have experience w/ had a large fiberglass conelike front end mounted high on the fork and stabilized off of the brake levers (I was using a small profile road bar and road levers.). The plexi windshield extended up to about mid-face level when upright...it was a tank...~ 4 pounds+ with hardware...but it worked and took a beating over a few years of hard use all above the Arctic Circle. I purchased a number of them and that fairing cost me ~ 150.00 wholesale 20 years ago. Sorry for not having photos...they're lost in my storage 'black hole'!

    The ZZipper fairings are WAY refined compared to my early rendition.
    http://zzipper.com/Products/prod_upright.html

    Karl at ZZipper has made a couple for Alaskans and many for upright MTB riders. I've sent him some of the bars I'm riding and he's fit both of the upright designs. Personally, I'm looking at the OS model mainly because of the aerodynamics which I feel can't be overlooked...will try the MTB as well.

    Evidently the Plexi he's using is aerospace grade but I'm not sure how it performs at minus temps. I will mount the fairing like a brake lever...snug, but loose enough to re-align in a crash. Karl is a good guy and ZZipper a long standing company...he stands by his product and will make what ever is called for.

    The plexi fairing he markets for MTB / Uprights weigh .75lb...the hardware is custom and of high quality weighing .75 lb.

    Heres Karl's ZZipper pricing:
    http://zzipper.com/OrderForm.pdf

    I'll take delivery soon...but not soon enough...it was frigin cold and windy this morn...

    'real' cold!

    Cheers

    ML
    Martin
    [SIZE=1]"The pursuit of truth and adventure is far more noble a task than looking for work", [/SIZE]
    http://fatbikealaska.blogspot.com/

  13. #13
    KuskoRiverCruiser
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    Sample Zzippers....

    Here're some of the Zzipper fairings fitted for Jones Bars...what do you think?

    zzipp_atbjonesmount
    ZZipp ATB


    zzipp_atbhrdwr
    ZZipp Mounting Hardware


    zzipp_88mtn
    ZZipp Mountain88


    zzipp_88mtn2
    ZZipp Mountain88
    Martin
    [SIZE=1]"The pursuit of truth and adventure is far more noble a task than looking for work", [/SIZE]
    http://fatbikealaska.blogspot.com/

  14. #14
    Devo
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    the clamping area looks like it begs to pivot. but each bracket and the axis that it would pivot/rotate on the handlebar are not in parallel to each other, but still,it looks like it would want to slide/drop down. i can only imagine with wind/ice etc.
    maybe 1 support post from the front rack, or maybe the thru hole at the center of the fork crown/bottom of steer tube.

    peace......d
    www.AsanaCycles.com
    "Bicycle Lifestyle, realized." D.G.

  15. #15
    FatBike Fiend
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    Full fairing

    Why stop with that? This guy has it figured out. I think it doubles as a canoe for river crossings as well.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Owner, Trailwerx Trails Contracting
    Palmer, Alaska
    www.trailwerx.com

  16. #16
    Caveman
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    Sorry to be mr. negative again but, I think a fairing is a bad idea. Sure it works great, but seems like it would break and be hard to field repair when you crash (how many times have you layed you bike down on glare ice??). I just had some flathorn flashbacks and didnt think it would last too long.

    The more "hard" attachments you add to a bike, the more places there are for plastic to snap. Think about touring, when you just strap stuff to your bike, there is nothing to break, but when you buy bags and accessories with molded mounts - they can break.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
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    Da Man

    John Stamstad never used pogies or a fairing......

  18. #18
    Beware of Doggerel
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    Quote Originally Posted by patirwin
    John Stamstad never used pogies or a fairing......
    Right so just imagine how much faster he would have been if he had used a fairing!!!

    Adam
    I wanna say I'm sorry for stuff I haven't done yet, things will shortly get completely out of hand --T.M.G.

  19. #19
    KuskoRiverCruiser
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    A little primitive...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildfire
    Why stop with that? This guy has it figured out. I think it doubles as a canoe for river crossings as well.
    Take a look here...these guys seem to have it 'covered' !

    F40Race

    f40.red

    sf40blu

    Hard to argue with results!

    http://www.lightningbikes.com/f40.htm

    _
    Martin
    [SIZE=1]"The pursuit of truth and adventure is far more noble a task than looking for work", [/SIZE]
    http://fatbikealaska.blogspot.com/

  20. #20
    KuskoRiverCruiser
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfPropelledDevo
    the clamping area looks like it begs to pivot. but each bracket and the axis that it would pivot/rotate on the handlebar are not in parallel to each other, but still,it looks like it would want to slide/drop down. i can only imagine with wind/ice etc.
    maybe 1 support post from the front rack, or maybe the thru hole at the center of the fork crown/bottom of steer tube.

    peace......d
    Hey D,

    Take a read of the ZZipp history here:
    http://zzipper.com/about.html

    Aside from being a really cool guy...Karl Abbe is v.smart and one of those characters in the biking industry that is 100% committed...his enthusiasm is infectious.

    If I were living down there in Cali like you...I'd pay him a visit or two...he's got tons of stories from all over the globe....AND....he'll help-make you GO FASTER!

    Fairings should be here today or mon...will let you know!
    Martin
    [SIZE=1]"The pursuit of truth and adventure is far more noble a task than looking for work", [/SIZE]
    http://fatbikealaska.blogspot.com/

  21. #21
    FatBike Fiend
    Reputation: Wildfire's Avatar
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    Would LOVE to see someone try to ride one of those things in the winds we've been getting lately. There'd be UFO sightings from here to Kenai.
    Owner, Trailwerx Trails Contracting
    Palmer, Alaska
    www.trailwerx.com

  22. #22
    FatBike Fiend
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    Da cold man

    Quote Originally Posted by patirwin
    John Stamstad never used pogies or a fairing......
    He didn't bring a sleeping bag either on the race from Nenana but I bet he was sure wishing he had one.
    Owner, Trailwerx Trails Contracting
    Palmer, Alaska
    www.trailwerx.com

  23. #23
    KuskoRiverCruiser
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    Miss Pugsley's Zzipper

    Picked up the Zzipper fairings at the post ~ closing today...after a quick look-see...straight-forward simple install on a MaryBar...even in 'real cold' -10dF, 10 kn winds and no gloves...Miss Pugs got her Zzipper!

    Rode into the wind! *big grin*

    Here are a few quick early evening shots:

    IMGP1652


    Definately have my priorities straight
    2006 bike technology foreground...Miss Pugs
    1970s sno-go technology in the background...Yamaha Bravo!


    IMGP1654


    IMHO

    1.5 lb !

    Simple !

    Greater Efficiencies !

    Warmer !



    Will post some daylight photos of the ZZ MTB-88 / Pugs and the ZZ ATB / Wildfire asap.
    Last edited by qayaq_alaska; 11-18-2006 at 11:16 PM.
    Martin
    [SIZE=1]"The pursuit of truth and adventure is far more noble a task than looking for work", [/SIZE]
    http://fatbikealaska.blogspot.com/

  24. #24
    Devo
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    go one

    Quote Originally Posted by qayaq_alaska
    Take a look here...these guys seem to have it 'covered' !

    F40Race

    f40.red

    sf40blu

    Hard to argue with results!

    http://www.lightningbikes.com/f40.htm

    _
    i always want to buy this!
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    www.AsanaCycles.com
    "Bicycle Lifestyle, realized." D.G.

  25. #25
    Devo
    Reputation: SelfPropelledDevo's Avatar
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    big screen?

    Quote Originally Posted by qayaq_alaska
    Picked up the Zzipper fairings at the post ~ closing today...after a quick look-see...straight-forward simple install on a MaryBar...even in 'real cold' -10dF, 10 kn winds and no gloves...Miss Pugs got her Zzipper!

    Rode into the wind! *big grin*

    Here are a few quick early evening shots:

    IMGP1652


    Definately have my priorities straight
    2006 bike technology foreground...Miss Pugs
    1970s sno-go technology in the background...Yamaha Bravo!


    IMGP1654


    IMHO

    1.5 lb !

    Simple !

    Greater Efficiencies !

    Warmer !



    Will post some daylight photos of the ZZ MTB-88 / Pugs and the ZZ ATB / Wildfire asap.
    now that i've got a set of poggies, and i've only used them once, cuz we aint even had frost yet, but the drizzle and 50F gave me a bit of an excuse to try them out.
    sometimes as i lurk on this forum i start to think that maybe my mentality is moving away, and somehow i find myself daydreaming of riding my Pug in AK, with a big screen faring.

    it seems like im basically copying you guys, just yesterday a set of Mary bars arrived, and i keep holding them up to my pug. i guess i should put them on.

    peace........d
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by SelfPropelledDevo; 11-19-2006 at 12:21 AM. Reason: add pic
    www.AsanaCycles.com
    "Bicycle Lifestyle, realized." D.G.

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