Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    This place needs an enema
    Reputation: mikesee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    6,944

    S'no ridin' like snow ridin'

    With warm temps and semi-goopified trails in the valley, CH and I headed UP to do a bit of snow riding yesterday. Less than an hour's drive brought us to ~10k', where the world was white and windy, albeit warmer than we expected.

    I rode my Mooto-X with Salsa DD29 rims and WTB WW LT tires:



    For a 'stock setup', the float is really impressive. But then I was riding with CH on his new Pugs, so no matter what I did I fell further and further behind as he motored blithely along on those squooshy fat meats. Througout the day my typical view of him was something like this:



    That is to say that he was almost always ahead, and often so far gone that he'd turn around and come back to check on me:



    In short, any illusions that I ever had about fat 29" wheels/tires floating as well as the Surly 3.7" tires was quickly dispensed with. When it was good we were pretty evenly matched. When it was marginal for me (alternately struggling and walking) CH had no idea the conditions had changed--he just kept toodling along. I ran my tires so low (~4psi) most of the day that by the end of the ride both tires had rotated on the rims, independently of the tubes, and the valves were probably not too far from tearing. This is pretty common at low/snow pressures.



    Trail conditions got steadily worse (because of the wind) all day, but we finished the ride on a heavily groomed xc ski trail, so we stopped to add psi cause the track was so firm.



    From this point forward I was riding out front. While I'd love to believe it was because I was stronger or the 29" wheel/tire combo was faster, the reality is that CH bonked and had to revert to survival mode to make it outta the woods. Doood--EAT!

    In places the track was really drifted in, and there it wouldn't have mattered if we'd been on 8" wide tires--windblown snow just doesn't hold together, so even if your wheels are floating you can't get traction and you just spin out. No choice but to assume the position and walk til you hit the next sheltered spot:



    Top marks go to CH for the most starfish successfully executed when the bike would stop and he was unable to get out of the pedals in time. Here he is digging out from one of many--note the crater behind him.



    Fun stuff, but soon to get better when the Snoots comes back from Moots in full tour regalia.

    Cheers,

    MC

  2. #2
    Time to go farther
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,318

    snow!

    Mike are these rides in Colorado? I'm *really* wanting to take the Pugs out for a weekend long tour but not quite sure where. And I could use some tips for deeper snow riding too(unless it's just push the bike which I have down pat).

    Will you share some of your best CO snow riding locations? You can email or PM me too if you want.
    On-One Lurcher SS
    Speedway Cycles Fatback Ti SS
    1984 Trek 560
    http://slipangles.blogspot.com/ - It's supposed to be fun

  3. #3
    This place needs an enema
    Reputation: mikesee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    6,944
    Quote Originally Posted by Pivvay
    Mike are these rides in Colorado? I'm *really* wanting to take the Pugs out for a weekend long tour but not quite sure where. And I could use some tips for deeper snow riding too(unless it's just push the bike which I have down pat).

    Will you share some of your best CO snow riding locations? You can email or PM me too if you want.
    Yep--riding in CO.

    As far as deep snow, you need to experiment a lot with tire pressure and weight distribution. There's no science to it, other than to say that everyone has their own idea of what works best, and why. You've got the pugs--the rest is just learning how best to use it, and the best way to do that is to ride it every chance you get.

    I don't have any secret stashes--all you need to do is stop by a snowmobile dealer for some ideas, or pick a favorite sledneck trailhead and take off. Best bet is to ride on Mondays--after the 'necks have packed them down but before any new snow falls. All the trails off of Vail Pass are good, but I doubt you'll have to drive that far to get good riding.

    Lemme know what you come up with.

    MC

  4. #4
    Time to go farther
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,318
    Hmmm sled trails. Got it. I'll take my camo vest to the powersports store and see what I can come up with

    In terms of tire pressure, I don't have anything with a gauge in the single digits. Do you go by feel or do you have something that works?. I've gone as low as making the sidewalls start to wrinkle and that floats the front but the rear still doesn't quite grip. Do you glue the tire to the rim lightly and go lower? And is there a lighter reliable tube for the Endos? Packing the 4.0 monsters makes be cringe but I don't want to be without a spare should something happen. I was thinking about trying a Gad 3.0 in the rear for more bite in deeper conditions.

    Okay enough pestering questions. I would just go ride in the new snow snome more but I'm visiting family and it's bone dry here. More snow riding next week.
    On-One Lurcher SS
    Speedway Cycles Fatback Ti SS
    1984 Trek 560
    http://slipangles.blogspot.com/ - It's supposed to be fun

  5. #5
    Beware of Doggerel
    Reputation: Adam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    665
    Nice shots. I spent a day doing back to back rides on the 2.55 29er vs the Pugs a few weeks ago. Both bikes were unloaded. My results were a bit skewed because I had a hopey on the 29er. Its really hard, for me to go directly from a damped to a non damped bike. The pugs was difficult to ride after coming off the 29er. Also, at the moment, I prefer the fit of the pugs to the fit of my 29er. Obviously there are too many variables. So it wasnít really a fair test. The trails had a dusting of fresh snow that was heavy in spots and lighter in others. In the end the 29er is hard to beat for our trails around Anchorage which range from rock hard to sorta mushy. (Prior to our last big dump of snow I was riding my 38c cross bike on the Anchorage trails). But the pugs rules everywhere else. It just canít be beat for those rides where you will hit a little bit of everything. In the end the two bikes seemed equally fast in the Anchorage trails, but clearly the 29er would be half fast in the back country.

    In the end, I came to the same conclusion as you. My dreams of a 29er snow bike faded away like frosty the snowman in a sauna.
    Adam
    I wanna say I'm sorry for stuff I haven't done yet, things will shortly get completely out of hand --T.M.G.

  6. #6
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,365
    The Pugs IS a 29er. Don't believe me? Go hold a tape measure next to the wheels.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  7. #7
    old format's better
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    580

    Ask Doctor Science!

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    The Pugs IS a 29er. Don't believe me? Go hold a tape measure next to the wheels.
    Don't be tryin to confuse us with facts when our minds are made up, dammitt!!!!!!

    Ken
    No matter where you go, there you are.

  8. #8
    I Love my Rize
    Reputation: danoalb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    763

    Hey Mike

    Fun stuff, but soon to get better when the Snoots comes back from Moots in full tour regalia.
    Questions about the Snoots, Love that bike

    1> How many speeds are you running on your rear cassette, what brand and ratio?

    2> Are you running twisters and if so what model?

    I seen it is running a XO rear mech so I would assume a XO for 9 and a X9 for 8 speed.

    By the way I run a 07 X9 with the matching 8 speed twisters with a pg 850 11-32 with a pc 68 chain. and love it. Liked it alot more than my 9 speed set up.

    Thanks
    Dano

  9. #9
    This place needs an enema
    Reputation: mikesee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    6,944
    Quote Originally Posted by danoalb
    1> How many speeds are you running on your rear cassette, what brand and ratio?
    8, SRAM, 11/34

    Quote Originally Posted by danoalb
    2> Are you running twisters and if so what model?
    Yep, 7.0.

    MC

  10. #10
    I Love my Rize
    Reputation: danoalb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    763

    Thanks Mike

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    8, SRAM, 11/34



    Yep, 7.0.

    MC
    Thanks Mike for the info, I like the 8 speed stuff better myself as I think the 9's can be too finicky. I didn't know Sram makes a 11-34 8 speed. The only cassettes I seen are the 830 and 850 and they state the largest cog as 32. I would love a 11-34 if I could get one.
    Why do you use the 7.0 twisters and not the X9? Are they the SRS model or the very basic ones? By the way HAPPY NEW YEAR and keep the stories and pics coming as you have more knowledge on extreme condition biking than most people in the world.
    Last edited by danoalb; 01-01-2007 at 10:21 AM.

  11. #11
    Bill M
    Guest

    WTB tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by Pivvay
    Hmmm sled trails. Got it. I'll take my camo vest to the powersports store and see what I can come up with

    In terms of tire pressure, I don't have anything with a gauge in the single digits. Do you go by feel or do you have something that works?. I've gone as low as making the sidewalls start to wrinkle and that floats the front but the rear still doesn't quite grip. Do you glue the tire to the rim lightly and go lower? And is there a lighter reliable tube for the Endos? Packing the 4.0 monsters makes be cringe but I don't want to be without a spare should something happen. I was thinking about trying a Gad 3.0 in the rear for more bite in deeper conditions.

    Okay enough pestering questions. I would just go ride in the new snow snome more but I'm visiting family and it's bone dry here. More snow riding next week.
    I know this will jinx me but here goes anyway-------- I have run 2.5 WTB tubes in 3.0 Gazzolottis for three years and this year in Endomorphs with no problems. Those Surly tubes are for motor bikes.
    Bill M

  12. #12
    Mr.Secret
    Reputation: R.T.R.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    613
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill M
    I know this will jinx me but here goes anyway-------- I have run 2.5 WTB tubes in 3.0 Gazzolottis for three years and this year in Endomorphs with no problems. Those Surly tubes are for motor bikes.
    Bill M
    Hey, I thought that was my secret....
    Last edited by R.T.R.; 01-07-2007 at 05:56 PM.

  13. #13
    FatBike Fiend
    Reputation: Wildfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    870

    Dammit, Bill

    There goes one of the last of my trade secrets. What's next, telling them about the, oh wait, never mind. May your WTB tubes be infested with spruce beetles!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill M
    I know this will jinx me but here goes anyway-------- I have run 2.5 WTB tubes in 3.0 Gazzolottis for three years and this year in Endomorphs with no problems. Those Surly tubes are for motor bikes.
    Bill M
    Last edited by Wildfire; 01-08-2007 at 07:52 PM.
    Owner, Trailwerx Trails Contracting
    Palmer, Alaska
    www.trailwerx.com

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mesotony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    247

    just one?

    Bill - it appears in your photos that you are running Remo's - are you using just one WTB tube with the Endomorph? I just recieved my new snow bike rims today, should have a snow bike built by next week ...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "I get a buzz from being cold and wet ~ the pleasure seems to balance out the pain" - Blue, Red and Grey The Who By Numbers

  15. #15
    Caveman
    Reputation: Bearbait's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    987
    Thanks for the tube tip Bill,

    RTR, Wildfire - What's with keeping all your secrets, I thought we were all family here!

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pbasinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    715
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesotony
    Bill - it appears in your photos that you are running Remo's - are you using just one WTB tube with the Endomorph? I just recieved my new snow bike rims today, should have a snow bike built by next week ...

    You can probably get away with just one WTB on those sand rims. It might have to stretch a bit after the first time you inflate it. Sometimes there is a little indentation/distortion around the valve, but it beats the hassle of running two tubes.
    If I see you out riding I'm going to take you out and steal those wheels.

  17. #17
    FatBike Fiend
    Reputation: Wildfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    870

    We are family...

    You're right, how selfish of me and I was starting to suffer from toxic secret buildup anyway so after much soul searching I have decided to share my top 10 weight saving/ winter riding secrets if the world is ready

    1) Use 700c X 25 road tubes in your endo's. They only last about a half hour, but man are they light.

    2) Brakes: Get real, how fast do you really ride in the snow anyway? Dump 'em, both of 'em. Sticking your foot in the front tire works really good once you get used to it. Saves boucoup grams.

    3) Pedals: Come on, how much riding have you really been doing in all this deep snow? Get rid of 'em, they just interfere with pushing. Same thing with your drive train, shifters, seat post and saddle. This really saves a lot of weight.

    4) Pogies make really great sleeping bag booties at night when camping. Although they do smell kind of funky the next day. Pheew, talk about steenking pogies.

    5. Bike wheels make great snow shoes when it gets really deep (and believe me, it's getting really deep right now). Just strap 'em to your mukluks, sling your frame over your back, and off you go.

    6. Slipping a large flask of sippin' whiskey into your friend's frame pack when he's not looking makes campouts a lot more tolerable.

    7. Faking distress when snowmachiners go by often can advance you far ahead of your riding partners. Although for some reason this has never worked for me and for safety reasons, one should not get too far seperated from your riding companions (see tip 6 above).

    8. Thin ice is way over-rated, a little speed is all you need to skip over those "dangerous" areas. I saw a snowmachiner do this once so it must work.

    9. Moose and Polar Bears can often be repelled by charging them with your bike as weapon. They're just not expecting it and it catches them by surprise.

    10. When racing, stop often to change the trail markers at intersections. You'll place much higher in the rankings and it minimizes pesky wheel-suckers.

    I feel much better now. See you on the trails.

    PS: -32 F here today. Brrr.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bearbait
    Thanks for the tube tip Bill,

    RTR, Wildfire - What's with keeping all your secrets, I thought we were all family here!
    Last edited by Wildfire; 01-09-2007 at 01:35 PM.
    Owner, Trailwerx Trails Contracting
    Palmer, Alaska
    www.trailwerx.com

  18. #18
    Beware of Doggerel
    Reputation: Adam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    665
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesotony
    Bill - it appears in your photos that you are running Remo's - are you using just one WTB tube with the Endomorph? I just recieved my new snow bike rims today, should have a snow bike built by next week ...

    Tony do you really need to put that wheel on a gram scale?? Its like, the smallest giant or something.

    Wildfire: Be careful how much you give away. It took me quite some time to live down the post where I answered a generic "what should I wear for winter bike riding" question with the recommendation of flip flops, a speedo and a feather boa. But I think that speed tip fits right in with yours.

    Adam
    I wanna say I'm sorry for stuff I haven't done yet, things will shortly get completely out of hand --T.M.G.

  19. #19
    Caveman
    Reputation: Bearbait's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    987
    Good stuff WF,
    I espessially like #3, next time I go "biking" its going to be with skis and a kiddie bike strapped to my back...

    I've been trying #9 on my morning chester creek commute of years without much luck, the polar bears just dont buy it.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mesotony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    247

    new element

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam
    Tony do you really need to put that wheel on a gram scale?? Its like, the smallest giant or something.
    Adam
    I really couldn't resist putting them on the scale - they are made of a new alloy : "Fi - In " as in marriage elements of Financial and Infedilium, or if you like, financial infidelium - don't tell Lisa.

    speaking of spouses.. how that new build for your wife?
    "I get a buzz from being cold and wet ~ the pleasure seems to balance out the pain" - Blue, Red and Grey The Who By Numbers

  21. #21
    FatBike Fiend
    Reputation: Wildfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    870
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesotony
    I really couldn't resist putting them on the scale - they are made of a new alloy : "Fi - In " as in marriage elements of Financial and Infedilium, or if you like, financial infidelium - don't tell Lisa.

    speaking of spouses.. how that new build for your wife?
    Tony,

    It probably won't help your relationship when she finds out that new hussy you've been secretly spending $$ on has a really nice set of wheels. Cool color on those rims, did you have them anodized or did you get them like that?

    Adam,
    What makes you think you're done living that comment down? We can get a lot more mileage out of that one.
    Owner, Trailwerx Trails Contracting
    Palmer, Alaska
    www.trailwerx.com

  22. #22
    Bill M
    Guest

    Contract Killing

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearbait
    Thanks for the tube tip Bill,

    RTR, Wildfire - What's with keeping all your secrets, I thought we were all family here!
    You're Welcome Bearbait. I hope it helps the uninformed since there is a price on my head now. Another thought would be to use Surly tubes with no tires. Pat came up with some cool ideas for building tread with some kind of glue. OOOPPPS Now I have let out another secret. Well they can only kill me once.
    Bill M

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mesotony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    247

    ask the lucky frenchman

    [QUOTE=Wildfire] Cool color on those rims, did you have them anodized or did you get them like that?[QUOTE]

    Thanks for the compliment - I got them this way sight unseen... there is some great "provenance" - I heard they may have once been owned by a certain tool engineer...I'll know some more of this story in February...
    "I get a buzz from being cold and wet ~ the pleasure seems to balance out the pain" - Blue, Red and Grey The Who By Numbers

  24. #24
    OlTime XR500 JumpingChamp
    Reputation: CrystalBay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    98
    Ahahahah , that is some funny posting Mr WF...

    We Outsiders are just getting a big blast of your Alaskan hospitality, It's just below freezing in sunny Palm Springs.
    Time to pick all the citrus.

    take care Bob
    Last edited by CrystalBay; 01-12-2007 at 07:44 PM.

  25. #25
    Caveman
    Reputation: Bearbait's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    987
    Crystal..
    I was just down in your parts.. Cold and windy in Joshua Tree!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •