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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    Although I see what you are talking about, I think what they are referring to as "damage" would be ruts in the snow that might make it harder for the other users that are normally allowed on the trails, not necessarily long term environmental damage (just my guess though). If the bikes (normally not allowed) were augering out a rut down the middle of the trail, it would make it potentially dangerous or problematic for skiers (normally allowed) and walkers (normally allowed).
    Seriously? That's just silly.

  2. #27
    is buachail foighneach me
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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    Although I see what you are talking about, I think what they are referring to as "damage" would be ruts in the snow that might make it harder for the other users that are normally allowed on the trails, not necessarily long term environmental damage (just my guess though). If the bikes (normally not allowed) were augering out a rut down the middle of the trail, it would make it potentially dangerous or problematic for skiers (normally allowed) and walkers (normally allowed).
    I have limited experience xc skiing, so these are honest questions/comments and I'm open to being educated:

    Most of the time, when we're leaving a rut in snow, it's in nowhere near a dead straight line. Wouldn't the tip of a ski cause it to naturally climb right back out of any rut caused by a bike tire, as soon as it reached a curve in the path of the rut?

    Wouldn't the rut left by a skier using a different cadence/putting their ski at a different angle/skiing awkwardly, (inexperienced skier), be more likely to make it harder for other skiers?

    Walkers/runners on soft trails make life difficult for everyone else, more so than bikes or skis on the same. I wouldn't think they would have any grounds for complaining that others using the same soft trails they do was ruining it for them.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach View Post
    I have limited experience xc skiing, so these are honest questions/comments and I'm open to being educated:

    Most of the time, when we're leaving a rut in snow, it's in nowhere near a dead straight line. Wouldn't the tip of a ski cause it to naturally climb right back out of any rut caused by a bike tire, as soon as it reached a curve in the path of the rut?

    Wouldn't the rut left by a skier using a different cadence/putting their ski at a different angle/skiing awkwardly, (inexperienced skier), be more likely to make it harder for other skiers?

    Walkers/runners on soft trails make life difficult for everyone else, more so than bikes or skis on the same. I wouldn't think they would have any grounds for complaining that others using the same soft trails they do was ruining it for them.
    Let me say this first, I am not agreeing with the park position in this instance, just trying to point out what I think they are trying to say.

    As a skier, I can say that "ruts" left longitudinally down the trail such as a bike tire would leave in the right (or maybe I should saw wrong) conditions are far more of a hazard than transverse "ruts". They result in what people refer to as "catching an edge". On long flat or uphill sections, it isn't much of a problem as skate skiers are usually crossing over where the rut would be and classic skiers are following a track that is usually down one side. The problem usually arises on downhills, especially on corners, when skiers typically have their skis going parallel with the direction of the trail. When moving at speed, your path tends to drift across the trail, much like you do on a mountain bike while going down a hill into or out of a corner. If there is a rut there, your ski will catch in it, while your balance will keep going across. Sometimes the ski will climb out, but frequently it won't and you don't have time to correct. I see the same thing when mountain biking after someone has ridden in the mud and it has hardened. You don't want to try to cross a tire-width rut unless you have a noticeabe angle of incidence.

    While walkers/hikers tend to do more visible damage to a soft trail, what they leave isn't quite as much of a safety hazard to skiers since the skis will usually span across the footprint. Now, if they are chunking out pieces of hardened snow/ice or leaving a mound of snow behind the footprint when they push off that hardens, then yes, their tracks can cause some hazards on a trail.

  4. #29
    Raubgee
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    Good points, Anchskier

    I hope I didn't piss off too many skiers out there being 1 of 2 guys on skinny tires. Though my comments usually poke fun at the great ski/bike/horse debate, we all know how important goodwill between user groups is. My question is similar to Sean's - I share probably even less knowledge of XC skiing - if skiers encounter a rutted out mess of a trail caused by, hypothetically speaking, a 200+ lbs guy on 29x2.4 tires in less than solid trail conditions, is it still fairly easy to make a new ski path next to it, room permitting, or would you sink like a sack of lead?

    When I XC skied a loooong time ago, I remember blazing my own path across wide snow fields with no traffic and deep snow and seemed to do fine. Granted I wasn't breaking any speed records, but I wasn't stopped in my own tracks, either.

  5. #30
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    The 2013 edition of ERR is tomorrow. Facebook page shows trails getting packed;
    Friends of Eagle River Nature Center - Eagle River, AK - Tourist Attraction, Public Places & Attractions | Facebook

    There has been a lot of fluffy, dry snow and windblown drifting in Eagle River the past couple days. Has anyone been down on the river to check effectivenesss of the trail grooming?

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