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  1. #1
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    Kincaid Trail Conditions

    Went for a little walk yesterday. Its still muddy!

    Attachment 803798

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    Bolling Alley needs some love!

    Trail maintenance day is coming up soon!
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    Anchorage mountain biking trails: http://2tiredtracks.com

  2. #2
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    Dang! I'm heading up to Anchorage next week and was hoping to do a little riding. I guess the paved bikeway will have to do.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by sivilized View Post
    Dang! I'm heading up to Anchorage next week and was hoping to do a little riding. I guess the paved bikeway will have to do.
    The bluff area trails are dry. I would argue common sense should prevail. Go ride, if you see mud or moose dont ride it. If you have to walk around more than a couple times, jump onto the ski trails or the road, then tell all your friends what you found.

    If you make a mistake and ride a soft trail, make sure to be at the trail work day.

    Trails are drying quickly, won't be long now...

  4. #4
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    I rode the last two nights to see how things where looking. As mentioned above the Bluff is awesome Motor cross to the beach. STA’s Tower of Power is terrible mud bog after mud bog. Bolling alley is good except for the section from the 3way intersection toward the VW bug junk car section lots of mud. Toiled bowl was great, Mighty bike is great, sugar Lumps is really good. You are good as long as you stay away from Tower of power and the one small section of Bolling alley, & L-trail because of Moose.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by sivilized View Post
    Dang! I'm heading up to Anchorage next week and was hoping to do a little riding. I guess the paved bikeway will have to do.
    It's drying out pretty fast ('cept there's some wet weather predicted for the weekend!). Hillside is drying out fast, I was just up there. A few bogs and trails that aren't worth it, but many that are dry and tons of fun.

    I'm still looking for more suggestions too. Thinking of Eklutna over the weekend and the Kincaid stuff is dry. If anyone has any better ideas, please...
    Last edited by Jayem; 05-30-2013 at 10:35 PM.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  6. #6
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    Great riding today! Not much wet where I was (Mighty Bike, CS Ex, Lee's Train, Sand Box, QFB), except for the lows in QFB. Get out there and enjoy the weather while it lasts!

  7. #7
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    litespeed's break

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    This is seriously out of control! I think it's time we discuss any options we may have to make recreating in our parks more safe. Two moose related incidents in a week resulting in injuries, and those park user's were not riding bicycles. I'd bet the unreported rate of incidents with moose are much higher. This is no longer a mt. biker only problem. It's a significant public safety concern. How may people need to get injured before the municipality and the state consider the safety of the people? What good are designated park lands if we can't use them?
    c

  9. #9
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    I am just waiting for the new Alaska Dispatch Rick Sinnott article “Kincaid STA’s & MT bikers drive moose to stomp runners on the Mize ski trails”. Rick and his clan like to bring it all back to the STA trails and the bikers but the truth of the matter is there is a high chance of a wildlife encounter weather your running/biking /hiking /roller skiing/Frisbee golfing ect. It is almost impossible to get a parking spot at the chalet or lower lot these days. I bet you see the stadium used as over flow parking soon. There are way more people using Kincaid these days. Kincaid is a Municipal Park not a wildlife preserve. I can swallow the argument for hillside Salmon stream/State Park. The “It is not a problem till it a problem” Game management plan at Kincaid is getting people hurt. I like seeing wildlife in the park, there needs to be a balance though. God forbid we have a Trent/Waldron Turnagain Arm Trail disaster at Kincaid or Hillside for that matter. Seems to me it would be better to be proactive than reactive.

  10. #10
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    maybe the city could get the guy from Eagle River who solved Denali's problem with an aggressive moose in to help out.

  11. #11
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    I have ridden with my bow on my pack for elk season and will be happy to do the same at Kincaid. ADF&G, just give me the word.
    To prepare for a race there is nothing better than a good pheasant, some champagne and a woman.

  12. #12
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    Maybe there are more moose/people encounters because there are more and more people using these trails. You have to expect wildlife encounters when you venture out, it does not matter what mode of outdoor enjoyment you choose. I don't think killing off all the moose in Kincaid park is the answer. Maybe educating people is.

  13. #13
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    What about fencing sections of the park off? The airport did it. I realize getting the moose out of a proposed fenced area would be a huge undertaking, however every recreational user group would benefit. Moose attacks don't just happen to mt. bikers. Skiers get it too. In fact, a skier was stomped this year. This incident occurred out of calving season and not on a singletrack trail! Now we have families pushing strollers out to the soccer fields, orienteering groups, tuesday night race series (both running and riding), children day camps, frisbee golf, hikers and dog walkers. And that is just in the summer! Is this not a park for people to use? If the only plan is to educate people about how to best keep themselves safe from the moose in this park, then that's simple. I'll save the state and municipality some public campaign dollars and say it here. LEAVE THE MOOSE ALONE AND STAY OUT OF KINCAID PARK. IT'S TOO DANGEROUS! How does that read? Seems to be the current approach to managing wildlife, I mean managing people, in a city park designated for recreational use.
    I realize the thought of fencing the park sounds expensive. I believe if we could get ALL the park user's to pull their resources, this could be quite obtainable. Think about it.
    My opinions are exactly that, mine. They do not express the opinions, or beliefs of any group or organization. Just to be clear.
    ride safe,
    c

  14. #14
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    that's a novel idea.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by akclimber49 View Post
    Maybe there are more moose/people encounters because there are more and more people using these trails. You have to expect wildlife encounters when you venture out, it does not matter what mode of outdoor enjoyment you choose. I don't think killing off all the moose in Kincaid park is the answer. Maybe educating people is.
    I don't think there are too many people thinking that all moose need to be removed, but there are a lot who feel that reducing the numbers/density to a reasonable level should be done. Same idea with the bears in/around Anchorage. No way or really no desire to get rid of all the wildlife, after all, that is a big part of living up here. I go out wanting to see moose and the occasional bear, but I would prefer that to be a unique encounter rather than an expected, every trip out type thing. Fairbanks does a lot of active management of moose populations in town (archery hunting seasons) with the specified reason to reduce the number of vehicle/moose accidents. No reason we couldn't do something like that down here with the right controls.

  16. #16
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    The moose population in Anchorage is out of hand. There is no management plan or if there is someone needs to be fired. I rode around Anchorage on the trail system through Kincaid last night. I Counted about 10 moose One cow with a calf at the corner of Jewel Lake and Diamond on the path that was very pissed off and had a lot of potential to hurt someone if they did not see her and got to close.
    Educating people has little to do with game management. Limiting access to our Parks is not game management. Keeping a balance for the area is game management, we just need someone to do their job.

  17. #17
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    I saw people hiking right by a calf near flattop before winter, this where the undergrowth was thick and a mom could have been just a few feet away. Still, they were waking by as if it was a dog...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  18. #18
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    Why don't you guys just start packing heat? If you feel threatened, blast away. That will learn them!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by _pseudonym View Post
    Why don't you guys just start packing heat? If you feel threatened, blast away. That will learn them!
    It's not necessarily an issue of feeling threatened, although the high population density does pose a significant safety concern as can be easily seen by the multiple encounters resulting in serious injuries so far this year. it is more and issue of trails being continuously closed because of potential dangerous situations (new calves, bear kills, etc...). In the past, when the populations of both bears and moose were far lower, the instances of things like this were few and far between. Maybe one every couple of years. Now, it is every few days it seems like that another trail is temporarily closed for one reason or another. Those are just the ones they know of AFTER someone has already gotten stomped on or just about ran into a moose or bear and was lucky enough to avoid physical contact. It's nice to see a moose or even a bear on occasion, but these days, it is rare for me to NOT get turned around at least once ore twice in a ride by them. They aren't necessarily encounters where I feel threatened in any way, just ones where they are preventing me from continuing on. Slightly different timing on many of those could easily turn painful or deadly.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by _pseudonym View Post
    Why don't you guys just start packing heat? If you feel threatened, blast away. That will learn them!
    I think this brings up a valid concern. Many folks feel packing heat and blasting away IS the solution. Me......I'm on the fence so to speak. Citizens taking firearms into Kincaid park with the intention of using them if they feel threatened could be an extremely dangerous situation. Why? Well, just as anchskier has said, I feel threatened by moose almost every time I recreate in Kincaid also. I could reasonably articulate why and how, given the circumstance, I was in imminent fear of death or seriously physical injury, and had no choice but to use lethal force. Hell, I could apply all those elements into almost every outing into the park. So what we've got here is the potential for a whole lot of shooting going on. Discharging a firearm at a moving animal while under critical stress is nothing like shooting at a stationary target. YOU WILL MISS YOUR INTENDED TARGET! At least a few rounds will go beyond your intended beast, thus placing other park user's at risk of being shot. Fish and game enforcement officials have received specialized training in the use of firearms, and specifically how to use them against animals. This is why we, as citizens with a serious public safety concern, need the municipality and ADF&G to get off their asses, and do something. Or......We could fence the whole park. Problem solved!
    c

  21. #21
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    Big Moose and baby on L Train today. Came around a corner near the top and they were there, mom closest to me. Luckily my rigid bike and bell sound like a freight train and I was able to stop well before, they spooked an ran down the trail, I turned around and headed back to the top.

    I can't say it seems like there's more than one mom and calf, I've ridden all over there over the last few weeks and seen them twice in different locations, but if they were really as numerous as this thread is making out I'd be seeing ones on opposite sides of the park on the same ride.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  22. #22
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    There is a moose with a calf on L Train. One with a calf on the Mize Loop that has injured two people this season already. There is also one with two calves on Tower Power. There was one that apparently died while giving birth on the Bolling Alley. This is the one that fish and game removed after 4 bears were seen feeding on it's carcass! These are just the ones I know about. So are there more moose in Kincaid? I don't know, but if you talk to an old timer they say that there never used to be this many moose and bears in Anchorage. Fish and Game is doing nothing but posting signs, even with the moose that have been repeat offenders and injured multiple people. Where do you draw the line? If it was a bear that was hurting people, you could be dam sure that the problem would be taken care of. Kincaid is a city park, not a wildlife refuge, not the state park. There are seven soccer fields that draw hundreds of people during tournaments. Nordic skiing, might bikes, frisbee golf, archery, tuesday night races(running and biking), orienteering, even dog training. All these activities draw thousands of people to this park. Do a google search of moose injuries and you will get at least dozen results for injuries and deaths from moose attacks.
    litespeed's break

  23. #23
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    I have been mt. biking, running and skiing in Kincaid park for 18 years. From my perspective, the moose population has grown exponentially. It used to be that seeing a moose was not a surprise during an outing there. Now, it's a surprise if I at least don't get turned around by one. I used to ride there at least twice per week. I haven't ridden in Kincaid since February. And wouldn't you know it..... a pissed off moose charged us as we were stopped more than a hundred feet away. My wife and I had planned on racing in the 24 hours of Kincaid. However, given all the recent moose problems, and managements lack of concern for the public's safety, we'll be going to Whitehorse, YT to race the 24 hours of light instead. Pretty sad when you feel driving 28 hours round trip to race, is safer than racing in your own back yard.
    c

  24. #24
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    I rode Kincaid today didn't see any moose or bear, the trail was great.
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/9527634@N04/9090984204/" title="GOPR0286 by F00G, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2874/9090984204_4c0b43cbfd_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="GOPR0286"></a>
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/9527634@N04/9088767615/" title="GOPR0056 by F00G, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7357/9088767615_6cd458b0f9_z.jpg" width="640" height="353" alt="GOPR0056"></a>
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/9527634@N04/9090989876/" title="GOPR0044 by F00G, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7286/9090989876_2a2ea7686f_z.jpg" width="640" height="353" alt="GOPR0044"></a>

    The mosquitoes weren't that bad either.
    "but you are a jerk, google it!" anonymous negative feedback 09-18-2012 09:07 AM Keep is positive folks!

  25. #25
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    LIES!

    Well, the mosquitoes seemed to like my car more than anything else actually, so maybe not. Good to see another fatbike out there.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Big Moose and baby on L Train today. Came around a corner near the top and they were there, mom closest to me. Luckily my rigid bike and bell sound like a freight train and I was able to stop well before, they spooked an ran down the trail, I turned around and headed back to the top.

    I can't say it seems like there's more than one mom and calf, I've ridden all over there over the last few weeks and seen them twice in different locations, but if they were really as numerous as this thread is making out I'd be seeing ones on opposite sides of the park on the same ride.
    When I ride my rigid bike with bells I almost never see critters. Take the bells off and its moose city, I continue to be impressed with the effectiveness of bells.

  27. #27
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    i ride with two bear bells one just above my headset and one on my pack, i make a lot of noise. i'd rather not have a run-in with some of the furry locals.
    "but you are a jerk, google it!" anonymous negative feedback 09-18-2012 09:07 AM Keep is positive folks!

  28. #28
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    This was on FB this AM:

    "Came across this scene yesterday on our grand tour of Anchorage singletrack. This mama moose has lain claim to one of the fastest corners in Kincaid. Everyone was alright and we helped this rider retrieve his bike. Too bad about that front wheel buddy. #akproblems #singletrackAK — at Kincaid Park." By: Hagephoto

  29. #29
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    Well lucky he was riding a bike that has a self-collapsing wheel to stop him before the moose. It even had reflectors to make it visible to the moose. (Moose is laughing).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  30. #30
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    Latest Kinkaid Moose vs Biker packing heat incident;
    AK Beat: Another moose shot, killed in Anchorage's Kincaid Park | Alaska Dispatch

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayJay View Post
    Winner, Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner! Two in two month's, do you think fish and game is going to take note? Another Alaskan freezer gets filled.

  32. #32
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    Take note and do what? Kill all the moose in the area? And birds too? Didn't a bird get unruly once this summer?
    "Having lack of self-preservation makes biking more fun."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfbkr50 View Post
    Take note and do what? Kill all the moose in the area? And birds too? Didn't a bird get unruly once this summer?
    Yes. Thanks for reminding me about the Goshawk, I'd totally forgotten about her. Yes her too.

  34. #34
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    why are there so few problems with bears in Kincaid?

  35. #35
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    [QUOTE=abovetheclouds;10764263]why are there so few problems with bears in Kincaid?[/QUOTE
    They too, are driven out by the overpopulation of moose. Moose are territorial and defend their area fiercely.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kincaider View Post
    I am just waiting for the new Alaska Dispatch Rick Sinnott article “Kincaid STA’s & MT bikers drive moose to stomp runners on the Mize ski trails”. Rick and his clan like to bring it all back to the STA trails and the bikers but the truth of the matter is there is a high chance of a wildlife encounter weather your running/biking /hiking /roller skiing/Frisbee golfing ect.
    Kinkaider was dead-on accurate with this prediction. Recent "Bill Nitwitt" arcticle in AK dispatch takes aim at the STA trails as cause of the recent moose shooting and is calling for a moritorium on further trail construction.
    Explosion of new trails at Kincaid is a big part of conflicts between moose and people | Alaska Dispatch

    My modest proposal would be to enshrine Kinkaid park as a no-biking urban moose breeding sactuary in exchange for opening up the 500,000 acres of Chugach state park which surround Anchorage that are now 99% off limits to biking.

  37. #37
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    The squirrel whisperer has never found a trail he couldn't dislike. You'd think he'd spend his time alder-bashing just to avoid trails. But, of course, that's not the case. I'd love to see his scientific evidence that more trails make moose more aggressive. And if he wants to protect the poor moose, why hasn't he suggested a ban on driving in Los Anchorage? Motor vehicles kill a moose about every 2.3 days on average. How many have been killed in Kincaid in the last 12 months?

  38. #38
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    What is wrong with people we live in a city, if you want to see animals in the city go to the zoo. There is a very vocal group of people that do not want to have to work to view and photograph wildlife by going out of town. They also contribute to the moose being aggressive by following them around. One of the main reason the moose are aggressive they lose their fear of humans, then they see humans as naissances and get agitated by being around them. Also the only thing in town you can do when you come up on a moose in the trail is back away. They learn this behavior the more this is done the more aggressive they get, it’s pretty simple. That is why when you meet them on the trail they will just keep walking toward you. In other parts of Alaska they just become dinner and the problem is solved.
    It’s not just one user group that is the problem it is all the user groups if we do not do something about the moose in the park. It is call a park, not a wildlife viewing area. To use the moose problem as a way to limit one user group from using the park is just a self-severing selfish way to get what you want.

  39. #39
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    What about splashing some wolf urine around the trails?
    If Huffy made an airplane, would you fly in it?

  40. #40
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    I simply won't ride there anymore. I wanted to race for 24 hours, so I drove to Whitehorse, YT. I've been charged several times. My friend was stomped by an aggressive moose that ran straight at her without warning, and commenced an ass whopping. I am member of STA and have volunteered on both phases of the Kincaid trail projects. It's unfortunate, but after 18 years of riding, skiing and running in Kincaid, I don't feel it's safe because of the overpopulation of moose. Citizen's safety needs to be a concern in a city park. City wildlife advocates continue to reference their experiences with moose in rural settings. Urban moose behave very differently than those found in the wild.
    Didn't someone get charged and stomped while walking to the soccer fields this summer? How does that park user's experience of an aggressive Kincaid moose factor into the mindset of those wanting to eliminate mt. biking in the park? My guess is... It doesn't. We (mt. bikers) are not the only user group to affect, and be affected by these moose.
    Be safe,
    c

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by damnitman View Post
    What about splashing some wolf urine around the trails?
    YOu can have my urine, it's more potent then wolf urine. Shit everything of mine is more potent. Women in the same room as me get pregnant.

  42. #42
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    What I see in a lot of the arguments defending the moose (and bears at the same time) is people using a very limited data set to support their claims. They use their own personal experience only and seem to conclude that when something different happens to another person that the other person must have done something "wrong". Just because one person has never had an instance where a moose actually hit them, stomped them, or even in some cases charged them at all, doesn't mean that because another person HAS had that happen that they must have done something "wrong" to end in that result. With the thousands of people recreating outdoors in and around Anchorage on any given day, actual physical contact that can/does cause harm to people is VERY rare, to the point that odds are, it will never happen to most people even if they are on the trails every day for their entire life. That does not mean that the animals will not act different on an odd case with another person 5 minutes after you go by it.

    These parks are meant for our (human) recreational activities. Yes, most of us enjoy recreating around SOME level of wildlife and assume the risks associated with it, however, there is a point where the risks get too high and some control measures need to be put in place. In the case of Kincaid, I think it is simply a need to keep the population numbers in check with consideration to the area available to them. We don't need to wipe out the moose (impossible anyway, but still...), just control the population so they are not stressed out trying to squeeze too tightly together and actively deal with those animals that repeatedly demonstrate aggressive tendencies (like the cow/calf combo that was approaching people regularly last year).

  43. #43
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    The moose are a pain no doubt. I've had a few close calls while riding Kincaid but mostly they just ruin the flow of the trail and I end up rerouting to avoid a stand off. Bear spray works pretty good to get them moving along if they are hanging in a bad spot (blind corner, really fun section). I think just having a general awareness helps to avoid conflicts too. If I see fresh tracks headed in the same direction as I'm riding I make alot more noise around corners and low vis areas. I usually smell the swamp donkey before I see it. There is a very distinctive rub on Toilet Bowl right before you start riding back up hill. That smell is what I sniff for while riding. Get a whiff of swamp donkey slow it down. See some fresh tracks, get ready to about face. I'd love to take the compound bow in and cull the herd a bit. I have no qualms about filling the freezer with an easy hunt so to speak. We could all pitch in and buy a keg and have one hell of a BBQ to raise money for trail building. Eat local right? Course the fuzzy hearted animal cuddlers might get all wound up over it. That is, until their dog gets a beat down from the cloven hoof of Bullwinkle. I'm just stoked to have good trails to session while in town getting groceries etc... After dealing with tons of horse folk in Montana I'll take a couple moose getting surly any day. You cant pepper spray Joe-wannabe-dude ranch guy without getting a visit from the sheriff.
    To prepare for a race there is nothing better than a good pheasant, some champagne and a woman.

  44. #44
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    What do we expect?

    I love that there are new trails going in around town. I'm hoping someday they actually go up a mountain and not wrapped in circles. Until then, I really don't mind the moose. It seems like for the gobs and gobs of people that use that area, and the abundance of moose, there still aren't really that many trampling events. The guy that shot the moose last week had a dog off leash that was going after it. The moose aren't the problem. Building trail through their entire habitat is.(Which I support) We should learn to deal with it, or not. The level of acceptable risk a person accepts for any activity they participate in up here is theirs to take. If moose attack is the sticking point, then stay away from Kincaid I guess. Seems like a little extra caution should do the trick though, and an understanding of how cool of a place we live to even have that problem.
    "Having lack of self-preservation makes biking more fun."

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigskyguy View Post
    The moose are a pain no doubt. I've had a few close calls while riding Kincaid but mostly they just ruin the flow of the trail and I end up rerouting to avoid a stand off. Bear spray works pretty good to get them moving along if they are hanging in a bad spot (blind corner, really fun section). I think just having a general awareness helps to avoid conflicts too. If I see fresh tracks headed in the same direction as I'm riding I make alot more noise around corners and low vis areas. I usually smell the swamp donkey before I see it. There is a very distinctive rub on Toilet Bowl right before you start riding back up hill. That smell is what I sniff for while riding. Get a whiff of swamp donkey slow it down. See some fresh tracks, get ready to about face. I'd love to take the compound bow in and cull the herd a bit. I have no qualms about filling the freezer with an easy hunt so to speak. We could all pitch in and buy a keg and have one hell of a BBQ to raise money for trail building. Eat local right? Course the fuzzy hearted animal cuddlers might get all wound up over it. That is, until their dog gets a beat down from the cloven hoof of Bullwinkle. I'm just stoked to have good trails to session while in town getting groceries etc... After dealing with tons of horse folk in Montana I'll take a couple moose getting surly any day. You cant pepper spray Joe-wannabe-dude ranch guy without getting a visit from the sheriff.
    I'm not entirely sure about pepper-spraying moose, but I know lots of people around here do it. Half of me says it's ridiculous and cruel(unless it's charging you and you can't escape readily), the other half says that it's preventing tramplings by teaching them to fear/not mess with humans. I haven't felt the need to on a trail yet, but I've met guys that were adamant about going through a certain section and had just done it.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Wow, Kincaid sucks right now, I got 10' in and turned around, I thought with the ok and off drizzle it would have dried out, but it's a sloppy mess. Hillside is great, dry packed moist dirt, great conditions.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I'm not entirely sure about pepper-spraying moose, but I know lots of people around here do it. Half of me says it's ridiculous and cruel(unless it's charging you and you can't escape readily), the other half says that it's preventing tramplings by teaching them to fear/not mess with humans. I haven't felt the need to on a trail yet, but I've met guys that were adamant about going through a certain section and had just done it.
    If it's any consolation I should point out that I don't shoot them directly in the face. I don't get anywhere near that close. It's more of a short burst fogging in their general direction. All it takes is a quick whiff of the stuff and they typically will get up and move along. It's not as though their getting blinded and going into respiratory shock. I would suspect its about the equivalent of them charging through a patch of devils club and pushki.
    To prepare for a race there is nothing better than a good pheasant, some champagne and a woman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigskyguy View Post
    If it's any consolation I should point out that I don't shoot them directly in the face. I don't get anywhere near that close. It's more of a short burst fogging in their general direction. All it takes is a quick whiff of the stuff and they typically will get up and move along. It's not as though their getting blinded and going into respiratory shock. I would suspect its about the equivalent of them charging through a patch of devils club and pushki.
    If I ever rode my bike through a fog of pepper spray on my bike ride, and find who sprayed it, they'd wish they'd of taken the moose trampling.


    On a lighter note, the Dome trail is in super great shape right now. Several trees down that I'm hoping to saw out of the way before the snow flies. I've been riding it on the fat bike.
    "Having lack of self-preservation makes biking more fun."

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    Kincaid Trail Conditions

    Jeeze. It's not like I'm emptying the can and laying down cover fire. I ride through the "fog" without issue immediately after. Perhaps I'm tougher than most but I'll keep it to myself and not threaten folks with a trampling. I like to size folks up a bit before I give them choices on how I plan to assault them. Looks like the moose aren't the only aggressive thing on the trail these days.
    To prepare for a race there is nothing better than a good pheasant, some champagne and a woman.

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    It is comical that you pepper spray moose so they get out of your way, but say you are tougher than most. I've sized you up by that piece of info.

    I'm a peaceful dude actually. I probably really wouldn't trample someone if they pepper sprayed me when trying to pepper spray a moose while I was out enjoying a bike ride. Wait, yeah. I think I would. I think most people would take up issue with that actually.

    Aggressive things at Kincaid:
    Moose, people pepper spraying moose, people who are sprayed by people pepper spraying moose, skiers that see bikers on the ski trails, Mosquitoes, .....

    It is crazy over there.
    "Having lack of self-preservation makes biking more fun."

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    Kincaid Trail Conditions

    I think what you've done is created some drama. If you actually were to have "thoroughly" read my first reply it stated that I try to avoid the conflict with moose through observing tell tale signs of their presence. I then also stated that I would often alter my route. If I feel that a moose is bedded down in a bad spot where myself or others have had close calls or are about to I will use noise to try and move it along. If that doesn't work perhaps I'll alter the route and let it be. Or.....send a short burst of P spray low to the ground towards it. Does "TapOut" sell cycling jerseys?
    To prepare for a race there is nothing better than a good pheasant, some champagne and a woman.

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    I'm not the kind of dude that wears cycling jerseys, but maybe a gas mask and overalls for riding at Kincaid if you're spraying your protective mist all over the place.
    "Having lack of self-preservation makes biking more fun."

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    Kincaid Trail Conditions

    Probably a good call on the gas mask and such. However those acts of self preservation may conflict with your sig line. Happy trails!
    To prepare for a race there is nothing better than a good pheasant, some champagne and a woman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfbkr50 View Post

    Aggressive things at Kincaid:
    Moose, people pepper spraying moose, people who are sprayed by people pepper spraying moose, skiers that see bikers on the ski trails, Mosquitoes, .....

    It is crazy over there.
    Forgot the smash-n-grab thieves.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigskyguy View Post
    I think what you've done is created some drama. If you actually were to have "thoroughly" read my first reply it stated that I try to avoid the conflict with moose through observing tell tale signs of their presence. I then also stated that I would often alter my route. If I feel that a moose is bedded down in a bad spot where myself or others have had close calls or are about to I will use noise to try and move it along. If that doesn't work perhaps I'll alter the route and let it be. Or.....send a short burst of P spray low to the ground towards it. Does "TapOut" sell cycling jerseys?
    Go be stupid in montana, we don't need it here. People pepper spraying moose and trying to make the moose move by yelling at it and making noise are what make the ungulates aggressive. If I see a moose bedded down next to the trail I say hi nicely and ride right on by. And to think that Elfbkr is a tapout shirt wearing douche is hilarious. If you pepper spray me expect to limp away sans bike.

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    Kincaid Trail Conditions

    I wouldn't pepper spray you. You sound nice.
    To prepare for a race there is nothing better than a good pheasant, some champagne and a woman.

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    Ran across 4 tonight, none agressive though, fun in the dark. ran across a group of 6 mountain bikers going the wrong way on BowlingAlley. They were worried that I caught them on video, I did.
    "but you are a jerk, google it!" anonymous negative feedback 09-18-2012 09:07 AM Keep is positive folks!

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    Ground frozen there?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Yup the trail was frozen, and crunchy where people had ridden through mud. not too bad, I realized when I got to bowling alley that i had never been on that trail at Kincaid on an Even day, although it was dark for the second half of the ride, i do like going counter clockwise (odd days) better.
    "but you are a jerk, google it!" anonymous negative feedback 09-18-2012 09:07 AM Keep is positive folks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chugachjed View Post
    Go be stupid in montana, we don't need it here. People pepper spraying moose and trying to make the moose move by yelling at it and making noise are what make the ungulates aggressive. If I see a moose bedded down next to the trail I say hi nicely and ride right on by. And to think that Elfbkr is a tapout shirt wearing douche is hilarious. If you pepper spray me expect to limp away sans bike.
    I think some reading comprehension courses might be in order. I never called your buddy a "douche". Those are your words not mine. The TapOut comment was a reference to him getting all keyboard tough guy. Birds of a feather....Odd that you have bells on your bike to make noise and yet throw judgment if I decide to make noise to encourage a moose to move along. I looked through my past posts..... nope, no mention of spraying people with pepper spray. In fact I never once stated that I would try to harm people (or really even moose) in any of my posts. And yet both you and your pal Elf have both threatened me with bodily harm if either of you so much as caught a whiff of pepper spray while riding on "your" trails. Classy stuff there. Now I'm supposed to take my stupid self back to Mantana because you disagree with my opinion. More classy stuff there. It's cool that you back your buddy elf. I get it. I'm sure your both good guys. I've read other posts by both of ya. Strong opinions are hard to sway. While I disagree with some of your views I never chimed in and threatened either of you or got all internet high school tough guy about it. It's a mountain biking forum, not the octagon. If you feel that my actions go too far and you feel I'm a threat to the moose so be it. Call ADF&G if it worries you that much. If you do happen to ride through my pepper spray cloud of death, as unlikely as that probably is, feel free to attempt to assault me if you feel it justified. Course It might be hard to see or breath with a face full of pepper spray. Not to worry. I'll stand there until the effects wear off so we can get all rumbly like gentleman. All chest puffing aside I respect you guy's opinions. Who knows, I may even take them into consideration next time I cross paths with a moose. I'll continue to post my opinions and live my life how I see fit. If you disagree,so be it. If you decide to act on your threats don't expect an easy go of it. As we used to say in Montana. I've been bucked off a time or two, hell, I've gone 8 seconds, and sometimes ya just gotta turn some bulls into burger. Go ahead and get the last word in on this if it makes ya feel good, tough, or whatever. I think I'll move on. Maybe we'll cross trails and bygones will be bygones or you'll catch a whiff of something spicy and start dropping bombs. Who knows. Hell, I might even give you a spare tube someday and not even know it. Or stop the guy breaking into your car at the parking lot. Remember to take it easy and don't worry so much about other peoples actions until they actually effect you. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9.......ahhhhh now doesn't that feel better? Relax, go ride.
    To prepare for a race there is nothing better than a good pheasant, some champagne and a woman.

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    Bolling Alley trail markers state that it is one-way in "Summer Only."

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigskyguy View Post
    I think some reading comprehension courses might be in order. I never called your buddy a "douche". Those are your words not mine. The TapOut comment was a reference to him getting all keyboard tough guy. Birds of a feather....Odd that you have bells on your bike to make noise and yet throw judgment if I decide to make noise to encourage a moose to move along. I looked through my past posts..... nope, no mention of spraying people with pepper spray. In fact I never once stated that I would try to harm people (or really even moose) in any of my posts. And yet both you and your pal Elf have both threatened me with bodily harm if either of you so much as caught a whiff of pepper spray while riding on "your" trails. Classy stuff there. Now I'm supposed to take my stupid self back to Mantana because you disagree with my opinion. More classy stuff there. It's cool that you back your buddy elf. I get it. I'm sure your both good guys. I've read other posts by both of ya. Strong opinions are hard to sway. While I disagree with some of your views I never chimed in and threatened either of you or got all internet high school tough guy about it. It's a mountain biking forum, not the octagon. If you feel that my actions go too far and you feel I'm a threat to the moose so be it. Call ADF&G if it worries you that much. If you do happen to ride through my pepper spray cloud of death, as unlikely as that probably is, feel free to attempt to assault me if you feel it justified. Course It might be hard to see or breath with a face full of pepper spray. Not to worry. I'll stand there until the effects wear off so we can get all rumbly like gentleman. All chest puffing aside I respect you guy's opinions. Who knows, I may even take them into consideration next time I cross paths with a moose. I'll continue to post my opinions and live my life how I see fit. If you disagree,so be it. If you decide to act on your threats don't expect an easy go of it. As we used to say in Montana. I've been bucked off a time or two, hell, I've gone 8 seconds, and sometimes ya just gotta turn some bulls into burger. Go ahead and get the last word in on this if it makes ya feel good, tough, or whatever. I think I'll move on. Maybe we'll cross trails and bygones will be bygones or you'll catch a whiff of something spicy and start dropping bombs. Who knows. Hell, I might even give you a spare tube someday and not even know it. Or stop the guy breaking into your car at the parking lot. Remember to take it easy and don't worry so much about other peoples actions until they actually effect you. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9.......ahhhhh now doesn't that feel better? Relax, go ride.
    Somethign to keep in mind when trying to "move" a moose is that whenever it moves from one spot, it is going to somewhere else. If someone chases a moose off a trail, odds are they are going to shortly be crossing another adjacent trail that another person may be coming down. I have been on both ends myself. I have come across a moose quickly resulting in it running the opposite direction and almost running over someone else on the other side. I have also had a spooked moose (running from someone else) just about run over me. Best option is to leave the moose be and go around or turn around rather than try to chase them away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    Best option is to leave the moose be and go around or turn around rather than try to chase them away.
    Smartest thing I've read in this whole thread.

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    Wsobchak, It may say summer only, but I'm guessing that is in reference to riding on the trails covered in snow or not. The trail conditions were hard and frozen, i.e. fast.. Besides it's still best practice for the rider coming up a hill on a two way to yield, these guys didn't, I yielded because i'm a nice guy.
    "but you are a jerk, google it!" anonymous negative feedback 09-18-2012 09:07 AM Keep is positive folks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by f00g View Post
    Wsobchak, It may say summer only, but I'm guessing that is in reference to riding on the trails covered in snow or not. The trail conditions were hard and frozen, i.e. fast.. Besides it's still best practice for the rider coming up a hill on a two way to yield, these guys didn't, I yielded because i'm a nice guy.
    Wait, what? Downhill rider yields to uphill.
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