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  1. #1
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    Kincaid Moose Problem

    I disagree with Jessie Coltrainís of ADF&Gís assessment that there are actually less moose at Kincaid. There may be less moose in anchorage but Kincaid is a moose haven. If you ride run or hike Kincaid you will generally run into 1-7 different moose on a given 10 mi loop around the park. Up until the last month and a half you generally werenít in danger of getting stomped. I also donít agree with the spin that KTUU put on the story that The New Kincaid STAís are the only problem. I agree that the trails do go through previously unused areas, but I also think that all the heavy machinery working on the Fire Island power lines on the North edge of the park and the work that the airport has been doing by the Sission is pushing them around. Add the fact that the addition of the soccer complex and the Frisbee Golf course cutting into unused areas of the Mize and you has a lot less space. I hear tell that our soccer partners are lobbying to have the Mt. Bike races & Mighty Bikes moved from the stadium area because there isnít enough parking for everyone. I guess Kincaid has become way more popular in the last year and a half. Moose or park users? I donít know the answer I guess I just hope that a rider, Runner, soccer player, Skier, dog walker doesnít become the answer. ADF&Gís general stance of its not a problem until it is a problem, we will just close the new STAís and that will take care of it. I go chased on World Cup the other night nowhere near the new STAís. I like seeing wildlife in Anchorage and in my back yard it is one of the special things about where we live. It might be time to become proactive and not reactive at Kincaid. The other scary thought out there is what if a Brown bear takes up residence and starts sitting on moose kills. I heard rumor of that having happening at Kincaid last year but it all seemed to be kept hush hush. I think we have a race named after a couple of people who where killer on the Turnagain Arm Trail that way 10 or more years ago. I donít know may be there are less moose with less space. All I know is that it is a larger issue and not just a New STA issue.

  2. #2
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    Smile Moose

    Quote Originally Posted by Kincaider View Post
    I disagree with Jessie Coltrainís of ADF&Gís assessment that there are actually less moose at Kincaid. There may be less moose in anchorage but Kincaid is a moose haven. If you ride run or hike Kincaid you will generally run into 1-7 different moose on a given 10 mi loop around the park. Up until the last month and a half you generally werenít in danger of getting stomped. I also donít agree with the spin that KTUU put on the story that The New Kincaid STAís are the only problem. I agree that the trails do go through previously unused areas, but I also think that all the heavy machinery working on the Fire Island power lines on the North edge of the park and the work that the airport has been doing by the Sission is pushing them around. Add the fact that the addition of the soccer complex and the Frisbee Golf course cutting into unused areas of the Mize and you has a lot less space. I hear tell that our soccer partners are lobbying to have the Mt. Bike races & Mighty Bikes moved from the stadium area because there isnít enough parking for everyone. I guess Kincaid has become way more popular in the last year and a half. Moose or park users? I donít know the answer I guess I just hope that a rider, Runner, soccer player, Skier, dog walker doesnít become the answer. ADF&Gís general stance of its not a problem until it is a problem, we will just close the new STAís and that will take care of it. I go chased on World Cup the other night nowhere near the new STAís. I like seeing wildlife in Anchorage and in my back yard it is one of the special things about where we live. It might be time to become proactive and not reactive at Kincaid. The other scary thought out there is what if a Brown bear takes up residence and starts sitting on moose kills. I heard rumor of that having happening at Kincaid last year but it all seemed to be kept hush hush. I think we have a race named after a couple of people who where killer on the Turnagain Arm Trail that way 10 or more years ago. I donít know may be there are less moose with less space. All I know is that it is a larger issue and not just a New STA issue.
    I would say that the Moose in the Kincaid area have always been an issue. Way more use of this park though? That is the question. I have personally been using this park for 15years. Almost exclusively riding. I would say in the last year. Yes, there are way more folks enjoying there time there. Bears? Yeah there in there too. I rarely ride in the evening time, but I went out last week with a couple of Old timer beer belly superhero's. We were all shocked at the number of people at the main stadium parking and the Jodpur TH. The jokes were. " Are we in Colorado?" Sooo? It's maybe not an STA issue. Just more people enjoying outdoor activites in these areas. Hillside included. There are going to be probelms with wildlife and people. The new Chocolate Parfait trails though sure make it allot easier for everyone to get out and enjoy these places. Where a few years ago. There would be almost no one riding. I have seen some interesting folks pushing there bikes on sections of the ridge trail. They would have never found that trail before..... With out the new trails in place. Love um or hatem. They are here! Watch out for Moose and Bears.... Oh my!... Oh and folks who are pushing there bike up the Ridge trail at a hair pin corner with exposure, Yikes!!!!

  3. #3
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    Kincaid Moose Boxed In

    Quote Originally Posted by Kincaider View Post
    I disagree with Jessie Coltrainís of ADF&Gís assessment that there are actually less moose at Kincaid. There may be less moose in anchorage but Kincaid is a moose haven. If you ride run or hike Kincaid you will generally run into 1-7 different moose on a given 10 mi loop around the park. Up until the last month and a half you generally werenít in danger of getting stomped. I also donít agree with the spin that KTUU put on the story that The New Kincaid STAís are the only problem. I agree that the trails do go through previously unused areas, but I also think that all the heavy machinery working on the Fire Island power lines on the North edge of the park and the work that the airport has been doing by the Sission is pushing them around. Add the fact that the addition of the soccer complex and the Frisbee Golf course cutting into unused areas of the Mize and you has a lot less space. I hear tell that our soccer partners are lobbying to have the Mt. Bike races & Mighty Bikes moved from the stadium area because there isnít enough parking for everyone. I guess Kincaid has become way more popular in the last year and a half. Moose or park users? I donít know the answer I guess I just hope that a rider, Runner, soccer player, Skier, dog walker doesnít become the answer. ADF&Gís general stance of its not a problem until it is a problem, we will just close the new STAís and that will take care of it. I go chased on World Cup the other night nowhere near the new STAís. I like seeing wildlife in Anchorage and in my back yard it is one of the special things about where we live. It might be time to become proactive and not reactive at Kincaid. The other scary thought out there is what if a Brown bear takes up residence and starts sitting on moose kills. I heard rumor of that having happening at Kincaid last year but it all seemed to be kept hush hush. I think we have a race named after a couple of people who where killer on the Turnagain Arm Trail that way 10 or more years ago. I donít know may be there are less moose with less space. All I know is that it is a larger issue and not just a New STA issue.
    Very astute observations, the problem moose I encountered have been in the west end of the STA Trails not far from The Chalet and main parking area. This has also been the area where the stompings have occured and it is only a ridge or two away from the busy area around The Chalet with almost constant action in the afternoon and on the weekends. The increased park use around The Chalet has created an area that no moose would want to move through.

    The noise from the motorcross track may be an additional factor pressuring the moose to move toward The Chalet. Throw in riders on the new trails cruising through this buffer/holding area for the moose and the scenario becomes even more dangerous.

    Greatly increased park use and a habituated moose population on the rise has clearly led to problems. Hopefully the moose will move along to quieter areas in the park or along The Coastal Trail. Not optimistic about the young male moose staking out the Good Grief Loop monving along.

  4. #4
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    I think adf&g needs to be more proactive. The park is getting more use period. That's what it's there for. All last summer we dealt with aggressive moose on double track and single track, wether i was by myself or with a group of mighty bikers. It seams to me the moose are getting accustomed to this behavior. This moose on Good Greeff has stomped 4 people now! What's to say this is not just the new norm for her? I guarantee if it was a bear in the park that had injured 4 people, adf&g would have taken action by now! This is a city park and a huge asset to the community at large. People should be able to enjoy the park without fear of being maned. Just my 2 cent's.
    litespeed's break

  5. #5
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    Pushed

    We (all humans) are great at chopping away at nature and making it "ours". Why are people still surprised then when we chop away more, crowd wildlife more, and we get stomped a little. White people moving westward did the same thing, I think it was called colonization. The more trails we cut into the woods, the more people need to respond and react accordingly and with respect to the nature we are displacing. It isn't a moose problem, it's a people problem. Much like the bear that had to be shot on the Turnagain Arm trail a few weeks ago. A lady went running alone at 6am and was charged when she startled a brown bear. She ran, the bear chased. She had no business being there with bear signs up everywhere and several recent reports of an aggressive, disgruntled bear. What's the problem with giving them some space while their calves grow. Before STA put the new trails in (which are awesome, and I like new trails being put in don't get me wrong) you would run into moose all the time out there. I don't think I ever finished a ride out there without being sent on a detour because of a moose that wouldn't move. It's scary to catch some of the undertones in these posts that hint at shooting aggressive moose that are protecting their calves. Go ride. Have fun. Have respect. Use your noodle.
    "Having lack of self-preservation makes biking more fun."

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak greeff View Post
    I think adf&g needs to be more proactive. The park is getting more use period. That's what it's there for. All last summer we dealt with aggressive moose on double track and single track, wether i was by myself or with a group of mighty bikers. It seams to me the moose are getting accustomed to this behavior. This moose on Good Greeff has stomped 4 people now! What's to say this is not just the new norm for her? I guarantee if it was a bear in the park that had injured 4 people, adf&g would have taken action by now! This is a city park and a huge asset to the community at large. People should be able to enjoy the park without fear of being maned. Just my 2 cent's.
    Agreed.

  7. #7
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    I support a bow hunt in the park. Give em the four wheeler buried in the back of the bunker and have at it.....

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kincaider View Post
    I hear tell that our soccer partners are lobbying to have the Mt. Bike races & Mighty Bikes moved from the stadium area because there isnít enough parking for everyone. I guess Kincaid has become way more popular in the last year and a half. .
    Oh, there can't possibly be a problem with parking space there. After all, the Kincaid Project Group assured everyone that there was plenty of parking to handle the park users. Without the stadium soccer field even existing yet, there must be tons of empty parking area at all times...... (note the vast sarcasm).

    As much as we could use new soccer fields in town, this was NOT the place to put them. EVERY user must drive there versus other locations that at least some could walk/bike from home a short distance. The lack of parking just exemplifies the short sightedness of their "planning".

    Just for the stadium field itself, it would take every car arriving with more than 5 people just to fit into the parking lot. That doesn't take into account ANY other activity or park users wanting to park around there. Just think of when the stadium field is in use, plus a couple other fields, toss in some frisbee golf groups, a few hikers, a couple bikers, and a wedding or other party in the chalet. Talk about a parking nightmare and a huge safety issue from all the people parking along the road.

  9. #9
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    I say moose burgers for all! Perfect with beer after doing trail work.

    AF&G needs to react soon.....if they arent in Kincade stomping people they will be in the neighborhoods stomping people there or getting hit by cars which is sad. I enjoy seeing moose and have nothing against them but they dont belong in the city. A bow hunt seems like the most logical and humane way to thin the crowd. Unfortunately it isnt just the mom moose that are aggresive for a short period of the year, I think the young bulls are worse.

  10. #10
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    From the lips of AF&G on May 30th or earlier, "I would definitely recommend to people to get a new hobby for the next couple weeks." It's been a couple of weeks and the moose problem in Kincaid hasn't abated, so much for experts.

    Aboved quoted from ADN May 30th:

    Alaska Department of Fish and Game biologist Jessy Coltrane said cow moose are giving birth now, and people need to be extra careful in and near the woods.

    "Cows are dropping calves all over town right now," Coltrane said. "Those cows are so defensive of their little babies. They will literally stand there on the edge of the woods watching you, and if you take one step into their personal bubble, they'll come out hooves flying."

    The warning comes after 6-year-old Chloe Metzger was stomped by a moose Monday in her Eagle River backyard. She suffered a broken clavicle and injuries to her back, according to Wednesday's Anchorage Daily News (http://******/B94Tfm).

    The same day, a moose struck a man outside an Anchorage elementary school, but he was uninjured, police said. Over the weekend, a moose charged and injured at least two mountain bikers on trails at a south Anchorage park.

    Chloe Metzger's mother, Julie, said her daughter and an 11-year-old friend were jumping on a trampoline when they decided to venture toward the woods into some nearby bushes.



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    They encountered the moose, which chased them back into the yard. The older girl ran and hid in a playhouse with an attached swing set, Julie Metzger said.

    "My daughter didn't make it. I looked out, and she was curled in a ball protecting her head," she said. "Everybody was screaming."

    The moose stomped on Chloe's back with its two front hooves until Julie's husband, Wade, threw a log at it, she said. It stunned the moose long enough that Chloe was also able to run to the playhouse, and Wade Metzger threw a baseball bat at it, Julie Metzger said.

    Unfortunately for the girls, the moose ran into the swing set, became tangled and injured the older girl as well, Julie Metzger said. Eventually they were able to scare away the animal and rush Chloe to a hospital, where she had surgery.

    The moose was calm when Coltrane and another biologist went to see it Monday after the attack.

    Coltrane said moose can be unpredictable this time of year.

    Several groups of mountain bikers learned that over the weekend on the trails at Kincaid Park. A couple of them were injured when a moose either attacked or drove the bikers off the trail, she said.

    "It was all fast-moving, blind corners and basically running smack into the moose," Coltrane said. "I would definitely recommend to people to get a new hobby for the next couple weeks."

    Read more here: Alaska residents warned about aggressive cow moose: AP Alaska | Alaska news at adn.com

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    It's a people problem, and it's a wildlife problem, and it's not just a cow-moose-with-calf problem. Kincaid today has a high-density moose population and sometimes, as many posters have noted, a high-density human population. There are really only three management solutions: 1.) Reduce the number of people by restricting use. 2.) Reduce the number of moose by killing some of them. 3.) Accept that some people are going to get stomped and live with it. This problem, by the way, is not unique to Kincaid. There are other parts of Anchorage with high moose densities and the same problem. It's nice to have wildlife around. It's difficult to decide how much wildlife. And please save the "it's only nature'' or "the moose were here first" comments. The Anchorage Bowl is anything but a natural situation. I wish to high heaven I could find a moose hunting area that has the moose densities found in some parts of Anchorage. The situation here is totally unnatural.

  12. #12
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    Pepper spray. Works on moose too.
    "Speed focuses the mind. It cuts through the fog of drab everyday living and keeps us on our toes."

  13. #13
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    The moose have all but wiped out any immature birch trees and reduced them to a shrub in the whole park and most of south Anchorage.....once the big birches die off all we are going to have is cottonweeds, some spruce and a lot of alder. Save the Birches!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by abovetheclouds View Post
    3.) Accept that some people are going to get stomped and live with it.


    It's like I tell people who ride in my canoe or kayak for the first time: If you don't want to get wet, stay on shore.

    Every activity has inherent risks and issues. Biking in Anchorage has the challenge of moose and bears (oh my). Choose to accept that you might get attacked and take what steps you can to reduce your risk or decide to stay home.

    Just don't whine about it.

  15. #15
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    It IS a people problem!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfbkr50 View Post
    We (all humans) are great at chopping away at nature and making it "ours". Why are people still surprised then when we chop away more, crowd wildlife more, and we get stomped a little. White people moving westward did the same thing, I think it was called colonization. The more trails we cut into the woods, the more people need to respond and react accordingly and with respect to the nature we are displacing. It isn't a moose problem, it's a people problem. Much like the bear that had to be shot on the Turnagain Arm trail a few weeks ago. A lady went running alone at 6am and was charged when she startled a brown bear. She ran, the bear chased. She had no business being there with bear signs up everywhere and several recent reports of an aggressive, disgruntled bear. What's the problem with giving them some space while their calves grow. Before STA put the new trails in (which are awesome, and I like new trails being put in don't get me wrong) you would run into moose all the time out there. I don't think I ever finished a ride out there without being sent on a detour because of a moose that wouldn't move. It's scary to catch some of the undertones in these posts that hint at shooting aggressive moose that are protecting their calves. Go ride. Have fun. Have respect. Use your noodle.
    Agree completely with elfbkr50!

  16. #16
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    Sissy(s)

    Yeah, the moose hang'in on the corner with the tattoos smok'in blunts are the one's you need to worry about. They like to scare greenhorns mountain bikers and much a fat kid loves cake.

    There was a time when mountain bikers didn't complain about such things. It's plucking Alaska for Pete's sake.

    I recommend you bring a dog..... Moose are scared of dogs.

    Jesus... I leave.... and the place turns into pl-ucking California!!!

    It's been too long...... but I'm still here lurking.....

    Regards,

    EndUser
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  17. #17
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    Crack

    Quote Originally Posted by EndUser View Post
    Yeah, the moose hang'in on the corner with the tattoos smok'in blunts are the one's you need to worry about. They like to scare greenhorns mountain bikers and much a fat kid loves cake.

    There was a time when mountain bikers didn't complain about such things. It's plucking Alaska for Pete's sake.

    I recommend you bring a dog..... Moose are scared of dogs.

    Jesus... I leave.... and the place turns into pl-ucking California!!!

    It's been too long...... but I'm still here lurking.....

    Regards,

    EndUser
    You crack me up! I could use a blunt right now. Hmmm, now where is that plucking tattooed moose.... Miss ya bra......

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigskyguy View Post
    BBQ sauce. Works on moose too.
    fify

  19. #19
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    the meta-thread

    I'm sure most of you have seen this article, but just in case you haven't... Interesting thing is the author used this forum (this thread even) to write up his piece. It's all very meta.


    Growing Sport of Singletrack Riding Butts Heads With Anchorage Moose | Alaska Dispatch


    If you read the comments you'll find this from the author about the "expressions of intolerance" found here:


    Rick Sinnott:
    Fish and Game had a rash of calls the week after several bikers were injured on singletrack trails in Kincaid Park. It was my impression that the callers were singletrack users.
    But for expressions of intolerance you need look no farther than the mountain biker forum (http://forums.mtbr.com/alaska). Two threads deal with the moose attacks in Kincaid: Kincaid Moose Problem and Conditions on Kincaid STA Trails. Most of the posts appear tolerant of moose, even when expressing concern, however some are not.
    Several examples:
    "Something needs to be done about the moose infestation around the sand lake/kincaid area.... (forrestvt)
    "It's only a matter of time before somebody gets killed at this rate. Something must be done about the ungulate scourge!" (chugachjed)
    "People should be able to enjoy the park without fear of being maned [sic]." (ak greeff)
    "I support a bow hunt in the park. Give em the four wheeler buried in the back of the bunker and have at it... (Bluffrydr)
    "I enjoy seeing moose and have nothing against them but they don't belong in the city." (forrestvt)
    Most of the people posting on the forum pushed back against these ideas. That's great, in my opinion. My concern in writing the column was that increased encounters will tip the balance and people who don't ride the singletracks, most Anchorage residents, will conclude that moose "don't belong in the city."

  20. #20
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    Pretty amazing he left out the Motocross noise, dust etc. Are the moose accustomed to hearing it throughout the whole park? Or is it that it has always just been there?
    No mention about the pond in the middle of the MX track which have had moose frequent when the track is closed to motorized use. Lil fellers can't get a drink when the MX bikes are flyin by.
    No mention of the airport noise and fumes.
    How about the electron model of aerial moose surveys in winter buzzing overhead in the most critical time of year?
    How bout the frolfers that mowed down the singletrack and put in a fairway?
    I guess we should put the bikes away, drive more and maybe crash a moose into the back seat of the car. That'll learn em.

  21. #21
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    Rick did a great job with the moose problem on the hillside. Just let the Brown Bear population explode to over 30+ roaming around not counting black bears. Then piss and moan that people are shooting them for getting in to their garbage. They have no moose problem though the bears wonít pass up a tasty moose.

  22. #22
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    Apparently more people using the park is a bad thing. The parks are for moose and bears and wildlife and homeless people and any development for biking is a detriment to the wildlife. Good Job Rick in shutting down the Phase #2 of the Hillside STA project put that feather in your cap. I defiantly donít remember you piping up on the Hilltop ski area expansion on the Spencer loop or the Frisbee golf on the Mize loop. Since you are nit picking critical habitat I guess these uses are not a detriment. Maybe you just enjoy a 40 & cig while you are out frolfing. Your inference is clear total opposition to this type to trail development.

  23. #23
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    Ran into moose and calf at the top of C$ last night while lapping L Train - they were right around the corner. I hit the brakes and fell over trying to get out of my pedals. Luckily big moose just looked at me while I struggled. Managed to stand back up and stood there while they slowly moved off the trail.

    Either they don't like stomping people anymore, I ran into a nice moose, or they could tell how much fun I was having and didn't want to interrupt; either way, very thankful. Kinda mimics all my other experiences with moose - not very aggressive.

    Kincaid is awesome.:

  24. #24
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    yeah, the moose are like the bears. not very aggressive until you run into the rare one that wants to stomp your ass. i guess the good part is that it's easier to recognize and evade the aggressive moose than the aggressive bear.

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    Ha ha. I got quoted in an article and my sarcasm wasn't noted. Oh well.

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