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  1. #1
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    Conditions on Kincaid STA Trails

    How are the new STA Trails in Kincaid looking?

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    Covered in snow. Thank the fatbikers. The only snow around is on the groomed ski trails and the STA trails where the fatbikers roamed all winter.

    I'm not saying fatbikers are a scourge but the ground all around the trail is snowless and dry...

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    Packed snow is slow to melt. A couple more weeks of melting needed it seems.

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    Even it it weren't covered in packed snow right now, do you really think they'd be dry enough to ride any time soon? Probably not.

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    I guess we could give up 5 months+ of great winter riding and skiing to make it so the trails will be rideable a couple weeks earlier in the spring....

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    We go thru this every year haha....

    I rode STA May 15th last year, dusty and dry conditions well before the June 1st. All the trail nazi's were angry. You would of thought Al Gore himself had appeared on a drunken rant and delivered swift justice to the Anchorage Hillside to anyone on two wheels.

    Go out and observe conditions rather than relying on hearsay. Make good choices, and have fun. We did have a record snow year, just as much at elevation. However the frost line wasnt nearly as bad this year due to how much and how quick we got it. Should be good here in 3-5 weeks.

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    I was kidding about the fatbikes. I kind of want one although I prefer skiing my powder. The places on the trail that were not snowy or on the margins of snow were dry and hard FWIW.

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    Nazi's in Kincaid?

    Quote Originally Posted by nojoke View Post
    We go thru this every year haha....

    I rode STA May 15th last year, dusty and dry conditions well before the June 1st. All the trail nazi's were angry. You would of thought Al Gore himself had appeared on a drunken rant and delivered swift justice to the Anchorage Hillside to anyone on two wheels.

    Go out and observe conditions rather than relying on hearsay. Make good choices, and have fun. We did have a record snow year, just as much at elevation. However the frost line wasnt nearly as bad this year due to how much and how quick we got it. Should be good here in 3-5 weeks.
    Every year is different. Yes, last year trail riding was alot earlier. It'll be good sooner than you think. Some of us were riding the Ridge trail in April last year all the way to the beach. I'll go out on a limb and say most of that is good by now. No, I don't consider those sections of the Ridge trail to be STA or Kincaid really? Grandfathered maybe?
    Keep poking around though. Spread the news if you find ridable dirt...

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    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by nojoke View Post
    We go thru this every year haha....

    I rode STA May 15th last year, dusty and dry conditions well before the June 1st. All the trail nazi's were angry. You would of thought Al Gore himself had appeared on a drunken rant and delivered swift justice to the Anchorage Hillside to anyone on two wheels.

    Go out and observe conditions rather than relying on hearsay. Make good choices, and have fun. We did have a record snow year, just as much at elevation. However the frost line wasnt nearly as bad this year due to how much and how quick we got it. Should be good here in 3-5 weeks.
    I fully agree, June 1 is not a law...common sense dictates when the trails are ready to ride. However, I think the Kinkaid STA trails will need to dry and then some before they should be used since they are fairly new. I have the feeling that since the trail last received minimal use last year during the wet part of the year that it may be somewhat fragile until it has dried out completely. Those trails are so good I would hate to see them chewed up. Last fall, after the frost had set in and before the snow, some sections were not looking pretty.

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    Ridge trails

    Yeah, I was out there about this time last year and that was all very ridable...However, barely walkable in steep sections in my almost useless sidi dominators that I scored for $25 (and sold shortly thereafter).

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    I think there has to be some common sense with the trails as a user.

    If the recent decision to close down the frisbee golf is any indication then they'll just shut the rest of trails down as well (sarcasm.)

    BOT, I rode around Russian Jack yesterday. There was a bit of snow, bit of mud and a some dry trails as well. Looks like there is still a week or so before the trails there dry up well.

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    It will be a couple weeks for the STA trails to entirely melt out but some sections are already dry. Riding them may be delayed some but this time also presents a good oppurtunity to tune them up and do trail work.

    On that note, the bluff trail is completely dry and is being ridden. Would be great to get this trail improved so it isnt eroding away and was largely ridable both ways. Be aware of all the moose out there, crap load of them out an about.

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    Where does one access the bluff trail? Kincaid newb here.

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    You can access the bluff from the Jodhpur lot or from the Leikish trails adjacent to the Chalet. You can also access the bluff from beach trail...take the coastal trail from the Kinkaid chalet to the bottom of the hill. You will find a trail on your left at the very bottom of the hill just where the trail makes a sharp right hand turn to head back to town. The trail is well used, you can't miss it.

  15. #15
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    It was rad yesterday

    My dog almost got run over by a motorcycle though.
    "Having lack of self-preservation makes biking more fun."

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    Quote Originally Posted by polarflux View Post
    I fully agree, June 1 is not a law...common sense dictates when the trails are ready to ride. However, I think the Kinkaid STA trails will need to dry and then some before they should be used since they are fairly new. I have the feeling that since the trail last received minimal use last year during the wet part of the year that it may be somewhat fragile until it has dried out completely. Those trails are so good I would hate to see them chewed up. Last fall, after the frost had set in and before the snow, some sections were not looking pretty.
    I think you hit the nail on the head here. The trails are brand new and have not had a chance to set up yet. Some sections were getting tore up at the end of the season with the rain. Consider that much of the trail has not been seeded and has no root structure to hold the dirt in place, this will take time. The trails need to have the chance to dry and then some. The two guys i ran into out there last night trenching the trails said there was no signage indicating that they were closed. Well, that's where common sense comes in! If you are leaving trenches and sloughing the sides of the banked corners, then you are doing damage that someone will need to come back and repair. It's selfish really, to put your need for a quick thrill in front of that of the mountain bike community as a whole. If you look at the Kincaid project report Singletrack Advocates you will see that 205,500 dollars and 2,170 volunteer hours went into this project. That's a huge effort in my book. It would be a shame to ruin that hard work by not waiting a few extra weeks to ride. In the future if all of STA's time and energy is spent maintaining and fixing damage done to existing trails, I would think that less energy would be spent looking at developing more single track, possibly on the north side of the road in Kincaid or maybe in section 36. I think we should all take ownership and pride in this awesome asset to our community and help to protect it. Leave the trails to dry, consider coming out to volunteer when needed and lets keep making Anchorage a better place to live!

    On a side note, the bluff trail is totally dry and i would be happy to take those of you not familiar with it out there if your jonesing for some dirt. Pm me if you like. -Ryan
    Last edited by ak greeff; 05-04-2012 at 11:50 PM.
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  17. #17
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    Hey, next time snap a photo of the kooks and post it up here or on the single track advocates sites so they can be property singled out. Just kidding, sort of. That really makes me mad that people can be so, uh, thick. Don't you know, c'mon!

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    Lots of trees down on the Kincaid trails. Somebody ought to get out there with a saw and clear them, I might this weekend. Not sure about legal ramifications of running a chainsaw in the park.

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    As long as you arent cutting down live trees what can someone really say? I exercise discretion when running one out there to just to avoid conflict but a pack saw will only do so much and the trails gotta stay open so.... Let me know if you go out, I can offer a hand or so I dont lug my saw around this weekend for naught.

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    My little stihl is nice and light, way better for this sort of operation than the jonesered I used to run. Wife and kids are going to a birthday party Saturday so that's when I'll be out.

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    As long as you are not dealing with really large trees, a small cordless electric chainsaw would be great for stealty park operation.
    Amazon.com: cordless electric chainsaw

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    Electric chainsaws blow goats. IME

  23. #23
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    chain saw fairies are rad! Please walk in, and resist the urge to ride. Also if you cut trees out of the trail, consider leaving as long of sections of tree as possible for future log rides and features. Just cut out as much tree as is safe to pass through. Thanx for the effort guys! If I were not heading to Homer this weekend i would definitely come out. I have a stihl 026 for this sort of work.
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  24. #24
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    Jed, did you guys make it out to cut deadfall this weekend? Any thing you missed you would like me to pick up? Let me know.
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    Yep forrestvt and I went in and cut some out. Might head up hillside tomorrow, any deadfall up there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chugachjed View Post
    Yep forrestvt and I went in and cut some out. Might head up hillside tomorrow, any deadfall up there?
    One person I talked to yesterday mentioned that some work cutting trees was needed on the Hillside STA trails. Not sure where or if it is spread around all the trails.

    Thanks for working on the trails!

  27. #27
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    Knowing where would help my cause, limited time you know... I haven't been on the trails up there this season so I'll be going in on foot. Or maybe start from the top and ride down cutting out whatever I encounter, riding a bike with a chainsaw is no fun though.

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    I'm headed up around 6 tomorrow.

  29. #29
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    There is always trees down on yellow jacket, or there has been in the past.

  30. #30
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    Sweet! Thanks for taking the initiative! We all thank you!
    Meanwhile, back at the hive....

  31. #31
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    Kincaid is good to go. Come on out and get some great spring riding. Remember to make noise loud enough for opposing traffic to hear, especially in blind corners. Also A black bear and 2 cubs have been sighted so bring your bells or spray. There will be a work party on June 2nd starting at 8:30 am stadium parking below the chalet for those interested.
    litespeed's break

  32. #32
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    Rode a quick mile on my way through tonight. It was fast and dry!!!

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    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by ak greeff View Post
    Kincaid is good to go. Come on out and get some great spring riding. Remember to make noise loud enough for opposing traffic to hear, especially in blind corners. Also A black bear and 2 cubs have been sighted so bring your bells or spray. There will be a work party on June 2nd starting at 8:30 am stadium parking below the chalet for those interested.
    Thanks for the Beta!.. It'll be good to ride something other than the Ridge trail or Kepler. All of which are fine choices....

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    If you ride the section of trail behind the water tank beware the angry moose. Got charged in there last night.

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    There's a moose out there that had a wet, as in just born calf a couple of days ago. She is charging people.
    litespeed's break

  36. #36
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    Maybe I'll reconsider riding with headphones tonight.

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    First time on the trails yesterday, and I gotta say they are awesome! It was so much fun.

    What does a work party entail? Can anyone go? I've never worked on trails before, is that a problem? Would I need to bring anything?

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    Kincaid

    Those are great trails! I got about 90 minutes of solid riding yesterday in the sun and it was loads of fun. I was mentally kicking my heavy wheelset, but still loving the ultra-grip on all the bermed corners. I had to ride Toilet Bowl three times just to take in all the awesomeness of it. Its very nice to see modern and bike specific trails come to Anchorage.
    Thanks to all the volunteers and the STA.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinceAK View Post
    First time on the trails yesterday, and I gotta say they are awesome! It was so much fun.

    What does a work party entail? Can anyone go? I've never worked on trails before, is that a problem? Would I need to bring anything?
    No previous experience needed! Bring work gloves, snacks and water. If you have a metal rake and or lopers they will be useful. We will have tools available as well. We will be fixing drainage issues and ruts.
    litespeed's break

  40. #40
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    Hey Kincaiders, I heard a Rumor Last night a Motorcycle was trashing trails yesterday. Though this would not surprise me in the least. I am curious though? Anyone see this evidence?

  41. #41
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    I saw some guys on minibikes on wed night

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    Yeah, I saw the two guys on mini bikes on Wednesday.

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    No a rumor. There has been a discussion going on over on the STA facebook page regarding this.

    Although it most likely won't get any kind of immediate response without there being an injury, reporting the sighting/encounters to APD will help create a record of it happening. If something happens in the future, this can help. Try to get identification information (license plate if it has one, type/color/style of motorcycle, description of rider, etc...). Photos with a camera phone could help too. Even if there isn't any official response, just the knowledge that we are recording that kind of information from them out there may help to stop at least some of it and our interraction with them will take away from their enjoyment of poaching the trails which may "encourage" them to go elsewhere. If they keep running into bikers stopping them, taking their picture, yelling at them, etc... they won't be having as much fun doing it.

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    I gave them a stern talking to on Wednesday. They weren't tearing up the trails though, they weren't even as fast as a bike. Little 50cc mini bikes

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    I just got a report that a rider was trampled by a moose on Good Greeff. This is the section of trail that goes through hairpin. I don't know the details yet, the rider was pretty banged up, but, walking out under his own power. The moose has a brand new calf with her. Please avoid this area and be extra careful out there.
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak greeff View Post
    I just got a report that a rider was trampled by a moose on Good Greeff. This is the section of trail that goes through hairpin. I don't know the details yet, the rider was pretty banged up, but, walking out under his own power. The moose has a brand new calf with her. Please avoid this area and be extra careful out there.
    How do we know where that is? I've only seen one trail map of Kincaid sta trails and it didn't have any names. I was hoping to get a ride in there soon but not sure where to avoid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskairhog View Post
    How do we know where that is? I've only seen one trail map of Kincaid sta trails and it didn't have any names. I was hoping to get a ride in there soon but not sure where to avoid.
    Try this link, it's something the map maker was working on, it's not finished, but under the circumstances it may help. You have to click on the sections to get names. http://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/vi...0.0052,61.1602

    The official map is still in production but there are temporary paper signs in plastic sleeves posted out there on the trails. If you look at the ski trail map there is a feature called Hairpin, Good Greeff parallels Hairpin. That being said, the moose may move. Just be weary of any moose you see out there right now, the calf is tiny, you may not see it in the brush or grass.

    On another note, looking at STA's Facebook page, there appears to have been two separate incidences, one involving a man, and one involving a woman. Best wishes to those involved, and hopefully a speedy recovery!
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    After looking at the map, the lady I reported on Facebook may have been on Good Greef as well. I was on Mighty Bike about to turn down C$ Express when I ran into her.

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    Be aware that there are "a couple different" moose with fresh calves in the vicinity of the trail leading to The Chalet and Good Grief. Probably best to just avoid that area until they move on.

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    Something needs to be done about the moose infestation aroud the sand lake/kincaid area.....

    My vote is moose burgers for all participants in the trails day work party......

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak greeff View Post
    Try this link, it's something the map maker was working on, it's not finished, but under the circumstances it may help. You have to click on the sections to get names. http://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/vi...0.0052,61.1602

    !
    Any chance we can get those shapefiles?

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    Speaking of rider safety...any plans to make these bad@ss trails directional? I was roll'n out there Saturday and if not for my excellent brakes had a head-on collision with three different sets of people.
    (I was never out of control at any point) seems like a bad thing waiting without some sort of direction...

  53. #53
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    I agree with AKxc and had similar experiences over the past 9 months. I know there was some initial discussion last summer among the creators and constructors and I hope it will be revisited. I understand that 9 miles of bidirectional trail equals 18 miles of trail but when you consider that the majority of riders do not make ANY NOISE on the trails beyond useless bear bells (and even don earbuds in both ears) collisions are inevitable with all the sweet tight turns and blind corners. The Hillside trails were much more open after construction.

    I won't even mention leashless dogs....

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    +1 on the dogs. Kincaid folks seem much more likely to bring dogs than the hillside folks

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    The Jodhpur Lot is historically the local dog walking/running spot for Sand Lake.

    The trails are only going get busier as the summer progresses and Mighty Bikes starts in on Tuesdays. Be ready to yield to other trails user be they riders, walkers, canines or ungulates.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valhalla View Post
    Any chance we can get those shapefiles?
    i dont know anything about how the map was produced or it's availability. Just linked it to help people better understand where they are riding. The official map will be out soon.
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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKxc View Post
    Speaking of rider safety...any plans to make these bad@ss trails directional? I was roll'n out there Saturday and if not for my excellent brakes had a head-on collision with three different sets of people.
    (I was never out of control at any point) seems like a bad thing waiting without some sort of direction...
    The inner loop or "Bowling Alley" is going to be one way on alternating days of the week. So odd numbered day's will be counter clockwise and even numbered days will be clockwise. Toilet Bowl and L Train will remain one way all the time. The connecting trails will remain two way. We'll try this and see how it goes. Signage is being produced as we speak. We need to make noise in the blind corners! Call out "corner" before you enter it. It will take some getting used to, but it works in other parts of the country.
    litespeed's break

  58. #58
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    If lines of sight were to be cut open and maintained visability on berm/corners would be vastly improved.

    Also cutting back any dead fall and branches atleast 4' from trail edge is good practice b/c it makes it easier to remove seasonal veg with a weedwacker/machette/mower when the time comes.

  59. #59
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    As far as trail congestion goes, usage will level out over the next few weeks. People are just stoked the new trails are dry and it was the holiday weekend. Then it will be just the regulars.

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    Yelling will make you horse. And forget the bear bells. Not even the bears pay attention. Pop an iHome-IH85b, Bicycle-Mounted-iPod-Speaker in your bottle cage. Cue "Ride of the Valkyries.'' Crank it up. Good to go. Enjoy the smell of napalm in the morning.

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    litespeed's break

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    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by ak greeff View Post
    Did a hot lap last night with a couple of beer belly super heros. AK greef was putting the finishing touches on a log ride. Nice job! Now go finish that one on the Hillside.

    If Folks are going to Trails day this Sat. Head to the Hillside. Those trails need far more love right now, than the new crown jewel Kincaid.

    Great job STA!!!!

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    Awesome job guys/gals! Trails are in great shape!

    The trail map is nice as well. Thank you!

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    Was out today, awesome as always.

    On a sidenote, I informed a lady who was hiking with her dogs that these were bike trails, and she informed me they were hiking trails also, I told her there is a reason there is bermed corners here, and it wasnt for hiker. Hopefully she learned her lesson. She almost got ran over by every single rider in our group despite yelling 100ft from her, she turned around looked at us and still occupied trail space as we approached.

    Maybe a friendly sign at the stadium trailhead for those "hiking" folks? Better to curb trends now than later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nojoke View Post
    Was out today, awesome as always.

    On a sidenote, I informed a lady who was hiking with her dogs that these were bike trails, and she informed me they were hiking trails also, I told her there is a reason there is bermed corners here, and it wasnt for hiker. Hopefully she learned her lesson. She almost got ran over by every single rider in our group despite yelling 100ft from her, she turned around looked at us and still occupied trail space as we approached.

    Maybe a friendly sign at the stadium trailhead for those "hiking" folks? Better to curb trends now than later.
    Although these trails were "designed for biking", they are not biking only trails. They are open to other park users as well, such as hikers and runners. As with any other trails, bikers should yield to people on foot.

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    It seems like it's a lot easier for a walker to yield. Damn pedestrians think they have the right of way everywhere. I abide the gross tonnage rule everywhere.

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    Seconding what anchskier said, telling hiker types they can't be there is one sure way of loosing support from other user groups when it comes to further trail development.

    Play nice with others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    Although these trails were "designed for biking", they are not biking only trails. They are open to other park users as well, such as hikers and runners. As with any other trails, bikers should yield to people on foot.
    Did you read my post?

    I respect your opinion, but I disagree. Bermed corners, some of them blind in downhill sections you will have a hard time yielding to anything and not eating ****. Was simply suggesting a friendly sign at the trailhead to warn hikers for their safety and ours.

    Let me get this right? Im supposed to yield at a moments notice on a spirited run in a "fun" section to a person on a hike who clearly disregarded a forwarning from riders in advance (yelling) and we had bells etc Additionally, she had an unleashed dog further congesting the trail with unpreditable movements, not once, but twice during our ride.

    I wont risk my personal safety beyond my controllable which means departing the trail, Plain and simple. I have no problems sharing...in this case this person was not the norm which is why I commented to her. Maybe she will learn to be a lil more aware of her surroundings. I will quickly express my opinion to anyone posing a danger to other riders or clearly disregarding the rules of the trail system, and anyone who cant control their pets.

    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by nojoke View Post
    Did you read my post?

    I respect your opinion, but I disagree. Bermed corners, some of them blind in downhill sections you will have a hard time yielding to anything and not eating ****. Was simply suggesting a friendly sign at the trailhead to warn hikers for their safety and ours.

    Let me get this right? Im supposed to yield at a moments notice on a spirited run in a "fun" section to a person on a hike who clearly disregarded a forwarning from riders in advance, and to top it off has an unleashed dog further congesting the trail with unpreditable movements.

    I wont risk my personal safety beyond my controllable means departing the trail. Plain and simple. I have no problems sharing, in this case this person was not the norm which is why I commented to her. I will quickly express my opinion to anyone posing a danger to other riders or clearly disregarding the rules of the trail system, and anyone who cant control their pets.

    .
    Actually, YES, you should yield to other users. What if it were another biker coming the other direction? What about a moose? I never said anything about you needing to go off the trail. You should be in control of yourself so that you aren't creating a hazard for others. Sorry if that means you can't go 100% all the time around blind corners. These trails are open to everyone from bike racers to grandmas walking with their grandkids.

    Your post said nothing about a "friendly sign". Let me quote for you "I informed a lady who was hiking with her dogs that these were bike trails, and she informed me they were hiking trails also, I told her there is a reason there is bermed corners here, and it wasnt for hiker. Hopefully she learned her lesson." Sounds pretty clear (at least based on how you wrote it and what generated my response) that you were trying to tell her that she should not be on those trails since they were "bike trails" and "it wasnt for a hiker". Friendly? "Hopefully she learned her lesson."

    We wouldn't have these trails if it wasn't for other user groups allowing their construction. Bad encounters with out of control bikers will just make it harder to get their support for future projects.

    Having said that, yes, all users need to respect each other. That goes equally for hikers as it does for bikers and anyone else. It's just common curtesy. Hikers/runners should try to move to one side if possible just as bikers should slow down and stop if necessary to get around other users.

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    I've run my own dog over any number of times, and I won't hesitate to run over someone else's if the alternative is me crashing. Leave your dog at home.

    Kincaid trails are fun no doubt, but at this point they're not worth dealing with the people you encounter out there. I've never seen a walker on the hillside trails and very few dogs. East side residents must just be smarter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    Actually, YES, you should yield to other users. What if it were another biker coming the other direction? What about a moose? I never said anything about you needing to go off the trail. You should be in control of yourself so that you aren't creating a hazard for others. Sorry if that means you can't go 100% all the time around blind corners. These trails are open to everyone from bike racers to grandmas walking with their grandkids.

    Your post said nothing about a "friendly sign". Let me quote for you "I informed a lady who was hiking with her dogs that these were bike trails, and she informed me they were hiking trails also, I told her there is a reason there is bermed corners here, and it wasnt for hiker. Hopefully she learned her lesson." Sounds pretty clear (at least based on how you wrote it and what generated my response) that you were trying to tell her that she should not be on those trails since they were "bike trails" and "it wasnt for a hiker". Friendly? "Hopefully she learned her lesson."

    We wouldn't have these trails if it wasn't for other user groups allowing their construction. Bad encounters with out of control bikers will just make it harder to get their support for future projects.

    Having said that, yes, all users need to respect each other. That goes equally for hikers as it does for bikers and anyone else. It's just common curtesy. Hikers/runners should try to move to one side if possible just as bikers should slow down and stop if necessary to get around other users.
    Apologies 1st if I didnt clearly explain this even in its full details, probably should of in the 1st post.

    Someone clearly disregarded the rules of the trail system, and it wasnt me. The purpose of me saying something to this individual was to key her in her surroundings a tad more, as she was totally oblivious to the fact of bikers, and could of cared less. She had been verbally forewarned of riders approaching, acknowledged but still failed to yield, at which time I cordially slowed down and had the verbal exchange with her and the "not for hikers" comment was again an attempt to key her in to a situation of a high traiffic trail day in a very speedy section which presented a danger for her, especially with her behavior. She was the only one of the 5-6 people hiking today on the trail today who was NOT aware, and wasnt playing nice.

    However, because I said something to make this person more alert I am in the wrong, and have somehow gave the biking community a black-eye.

    Im not that insane to collide with a moose, person, or other rider intentionally. I am well in control of my bike at all times, no issues there. I agree, STA trails are not a 100% enviroment, that leads to bafoonery.

    I understand these are multiuse trails, and respect that, I respect these trails were a gift from multiple groups and couldnt of happened without their support and cooperation.


    Thanks

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    Given that a fair number of dog walkers -- by no means all, but a fair number -- seem to care about nothing but their dogs and themselves, is it really a good strategy to treat them like they're welcome? IE: "Telling hiker types they can't be there is one sure way of loosing support from other user groups when it comes to further trail development." The sentiment there is nice. We should all be friendly. But if the dog walkers aren't in some way discouraged from using these bike trails, how long before the bike trails become dog walking trails?
    Frankly, when I encounter them I stop and say, "Hi! I've been hoping to meet you. I just want to say thanks and ask if I can buy you a beer or offer a contribution to the cause?" To which, they invariably say, "What are you talking about,'' or some variation thereof. Too which you can nicely respond: "Oh, I thought you must be one of the people who built these really cool trails because it's hard to imagine someone who didn't would be taking advantage of them to walk their dog and mess things up for everyone else in the community.''
    Now, what to do with the riders who bring their dogs....? I take my dogs running on non-bike trails after riding because dogs really have no place on single-track bike trails, but there sure seem to be a lot of people who think bringing the dog along biking is fine. It's not. Your dog might be predictable to you, but it sure isn't predictable to me because I don't know it from Spot. Your loose dog coming down the trail is not another rider's best friend it's another rider's heart burn.

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    The only reason we were able to build these trails, is because they where billed as multi use! Dog walkers, runners, and hikers all got behind STA to support this project. These trails are NOT exclusive to MOUNTAIN BIKERS and if we start treating other users as if they are, we will quickly become the minority and loose support for future trail building, PERIOD! If you don't want to deal with other users groups, or can't be courteous to other users, than go ride somewhere else! Don't be selfish and **** this up for those of us that don't mind occasionally stopping, and pulling over to the side to yield to other users . Is it a pain, maybe, is it worth having trails to ride and the support of the community as a whole, most definitely! Rules of the Trail | International Mountain Bicycling Association
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    Sorry. As a dog walker, runner, Nordic skier, snow machiner, former horse owner, and sometimes MTBer, I was under the impression everyone agreed the primary use of these trails was to be MTB. Apparently I was wrong, but these looked like bike trails. They're badly designed for multi-use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak greeff View Post
    The only reason we were able to build these trails, is because they where billed as multi use! Dog walkers, runners, and hikers all got behind STA to support this project. These trails are NOT exclusive to MOUNTAIN BIKERS and if we start treating other users as if they are, we will quickly become the minority and loose support for future trail building, PERIOD! If you don't want to deal with other users groups, or can't be courteous to other users, than go ride somewhere else! Don't be selfish and **** this up for those of us that don't mind occasionally stopping, and pulling over to the side to yield to other users . Is it a pain, maybe, is it worth having trails to ride and the support of the community as a whole, most definitely! Rules of the Trail | International Mountain Bicycling Association
    Again, in my instance I did nothing wrong. One lonely individual who is too selfish to acknowledge oncoming mountain bikers despite verbal warnings in advance should by all means be dealt with accordingly.

    If the general concensus of this forum is that you should turn a deaf ear and allow inconsiderate individuals like this continue this type of behavior on trails then so be it...I wont stand for it. I may change my approach in the future with a tad more tact, and a choice of words, but they will know they need to just aware as I am. By all means I would also expect the same type of criticism to come from a hiker, walker, etc to be directed towards a biker if they were overly aggressive with their trail habits. Its a two way street...... Again, I am very grateful for what is out there, I take nothing for granted.

    Like I said before. I encountered 5-6 people yesterday, I yielded just as much as they did, friendly hello's and hi's were exchanged as I rode by. Everyone was happy to be out enjoying the day and trails equally. However, this wasnt the case for the individual who failed to yield despite being warned.


    If anyone wants to discuss this particular instance, please PM me, im done clogging this thread up. Please read my post's about the incident before coming to assumptions and making judgements.

    More riding and less BS like this would be nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nojoke View Post
    Please read my post's about the incident before coming to assumptions and making judgements.
    We all did .

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    Quote Originally Posted by chugachjed View Post
    I've run my own dog over any number of times, and I won't hesitate to run over someone else's if the alternative is me crashing. Leave your dog at home.

    Kincaid trails are fun no doubt, but at this point they're not worth dealing with the people you encounter out there. I've never seen a walker on the hillside trails and very few dogs. East side residents must just be smarter.
    Your right, East side resident's are smarter. Kincaid sucks, stay on the hillside!
    litespeed's break

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak greeff View Post
    Your right, East side resident's are smarter. Kincaid sucks, stay on the hillside!
    Smarter isn't the right word, maybe sensible is. Either way hillside was great this afternoon, no Walkers or dogs!

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    Damn. I went out and looked for folks around three from the chalet, didn't find a soul. No way to join a work party when you can't find the party. -Felt like high school when I wasn't invited to the parties.
    2 cents:
    I had a leashless dog "mouth" my calf on Thursday. The owner was on the phone and after I had slowed to not hit the dog, it went to mouth love my lower leg. As I was accelerating away, I looked at the guy wIth disdain and he looked away a half second late like "Oh, I wasn't watching you."
    Anyway, whatever. Multiple users. Growing pains I'd say. The bowl only has so many trails, and the people out getting rad are increasing in number.

    At least Kincaid doesn't have those damnable horses...
    Uh oh, potential thread hijack.

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    Huh I was under the impression that the only user group not welcome on the Hillside STA’s where the horseback riders. If the Hillside STA’s have become Mt bike only it is first I have heard of it. Last rules I have seen from Janice said the uphill riders or traffic have the right of way. If the Truck run crowd or I am ripping this downhill get out of the way crowd has made it uncomfortable for other user groups to use the Hillside STA trails then I guess that is the way it has shaken out. I have ridden up there pretty frequently the last three years and seem to me I have seen hikers, walkers and runners with dogs or without. 99% of the Bikers, Runners, and Hikers & Skiers have been respectful and courteous. The only Bike only trails I know of is at Alyeska and it is clearly marked as such. The Kincaid STA’s are bringing out all demographics of bike groups from XC, DH, Dirt Jumpers, and BMX. Mix that with the traditional park users and it makes for a lot of people getting use to crossing paths with each other. If the Speed crowd rules the Hillside and it is common knowledge to get out of the way then I guess now know. That’s fine but that is not how it is at Kincaid so the Dome, Alyeska, Glenn Alps to Hillside and Hatchers is probably the place to be if you want to rip and have complete right of way. At Kincaid uphill traffic has right of way so unless you are going down one of the one way trails you shouldn’t be going fast enough to hit a moose, dog, and runner or up traffic MT biker. If you’re on a one way trail you have a right to *****. I rode the APEX trail in Colorado 2 weekends ago. Three times as much traffic on steep very rocky water bar style single track. It was directional on odd and even days and was clearly marked. There where DH, XC, hikers and runners and yes I even saw some unleashed dogs. Maybe this is what things need to get to at Kincaid to make all the groups happy. If people want kick ass MT bike only ripping DH trails I am all for it and would get behind it as much as I have the Kincaid project. If that is what you’re looking for at Kincaid it isn’t it, you have to share even with pain in the ass dip shits.

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    If you want to see what all this BS can devolve into go three categories down to Colorado front range and type in trail etiquette and start reading. Seems like there should be a way for everyone to have fun get along or at least tolerate each other for the sake of more new trail potential.

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    Nobody is saying that the Hillside trails are bike only, just that they see CONSIDERABLY less foot traffic. It doesn't really bother me either way since I usually ride late at night when there's nobody out on the trails but me, moose, and the bears. I'm not trying to cause anybody any grief but realistically it's not safe to walk on a trail with blind bermed turns, the berms are there so you can carry speed around sharp bends. IMO the alternate day directional status of the trails is the way to go, this is AK and people are going to be all anti-authoritarian about it but it makes sense.

    And there should be signs at the main trail junctures that say something along the lines of "This trail is likely to be populated by bicycles traveling at a high rate of speed."

    For Copulating's sake this place is Teletips with bikes.

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    I have a hard time understanding how anyone could think the Hillside STA trails have less foot traffic than the new trails at Kincaid. I have routinely encountered hikers on the Hillside trails. I've seen few at Kincaid.

    I remember seeing an old couple near the top of Janice's Jive about 9:30 one night a couple of years ago, and worrying about their safety with the full-face helmet crowd that likes bombing down from Glen Alps that time of night. You know what that means? I saw that old couple as people.

    What's so hard about recognizing other trail users as people? Setting aside all the politics of working peacefully with other users groups, not alienating them, etc., the bottom line is that any mountain biker who doesn't ride under control risks hitting and potentially maiming a hiker. That hiker could even be a little kid.

    Here's a little advice to everyone riding any mountain bike trail, anywhere. Slow the hell down and ride under control. It's all about having fun and enjoying the outdoors. Don't be a jackass. Don't treat people badly. And respect the hard work of the people who built those trails for you.

    I won't make any assumptions here about who has/hasn't invested money and sweat in building these trails but, in my experience, those who have put in the work tend to be the ones who advocate playing nice with other user groups. The people who have done the work understand how hard it is to get permission to build trails, and how hard it is to construct them. Everyone else should think long and hard before ignoring the perspective those people have to offer.

    I suspect most hikers won't find trails with banked turns and a lot of bike traffic all that enjoyable, and they'll tend to move to other areas once they've checked out the new STA network.

    I'm not a fan of hikers on the Kincaid trails, either, but I try to remind myself what it feels like when motorists rant about bikes not belonging on the road. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't want to be anything like those a$$holes.
    Last edited by Big Karma; 06-03-2012 at 09:47 PM. Reason: Cabernet
    Enjoying the meaningful pursuit of meaningless fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chugachjed View Post
    Then you need a skills course, practice, and/or better brakes. If you still have trouble slowing down after addressing those things, the only remaining reason will be selfishness and immaturity. Those are far harder to fix.
    Enjoying the meaningful pursuit of meaningless fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Karma View Post
    Then you need a skills course, practice, and/or better brakes. If you still have trouble slowing down after addressing those things, the only remaining reason will be selfishness and immaturity. Those are far harder to fix.
    If it's any consolation I'm getting a rigid 29'r next week. No suspension will slow me down maybe more than the big wheels will speed me up

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    The reality is that these trails were billed as multi-use for the purpose of permits, authorization, construction and then there were designed and built as bike trails that do not lend themselves readily to multi-directions and multi-uses.

    Can these objectives coexist - of course with a little bit of common sense and responsibility. But you can't build tight single track with blind corners, structures, and high berms made for speed and tell me they are multi-use and not expect conflict.

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    So now that we got all of that out of the way,

    There's the first Kincaid Series race tonight! Looking like great weather to go out there and get in the way of the fast guys/gals so us slower ones can catch up to them!!!

    Don't forget your "dinner" bells (quoted from A. Cunningham!)

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    The Kincaid Trails sometimes scare me. The Hillside Trails don't. Why? Because the former are so beautifully designed they encourage even fat, old, barely-able-to-balance-on-the-bike guys like me to go fast and catch air. I worry as much about a head on with another rider as any problem with walkers or dogs, although it would be nice if someone could get the dogs all going one way as Kincaider describes in Colo. Minimizing the dogs and walkers on the Kincaid trails and maximizing the one-way traffic seems like a good idea before there is an accident, but slowing down would have the same affect. If we all went at walking speed, we wouldn't even have to worry about running into moose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abovetheclouds View Post
    The Kincaid Trails sometimes scare me. The Hillside Trails don't. Why? Because the former are so beautifully designed they encourage even fat, old, barely-able-to-balance-on-the-bike guys like me to go fast and catch air. I worry as much about a head on with another rider as any problem with walkers or dogs, although it would be nice if someone could get the dogs all going one way as Kincaider describes in Colo. Minimizing the dogs and walkers on the Kincaid trails and maximizing the one-way traffic seems like a good idea before there is an accident, but slowing down would have the same affect. If we all went at walking speed, we wouldn't even have to worry about running into moose.
    Then what's the copulating point. I can walk walking speed, I ride a bike because it's fun to go fast.

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    Another moose stomping on Good Greeff last night. Please stay off of and out of the are around this trail! Be safe out there!
    litespeed's break

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak greeff View Post
    Another moose stomping on Good Greeff last night. Please stay off of and out of the are around this trail! Be safe out there!
    It's only a matter of time before somebody gets killed at this rate. Something must be done about the ungulate scourge!

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    Have these incidents been reported to Fish and Game?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chugachjed View Post
    It's only a matter of time before somebody gets killed at this rate. Something must be done about the ungulate scourge!

    Simple all-in-one soution for those pesky moose and dogwalkers, extra traction, and on-the-fly-trail maintanence!


    Conditions on Kincaid STA Trails-chainsaw-powered-russian-bicycle-537x443.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayJay View Post
    Simple all-in-one soution for those pesky moose and dogwalkers, extra traction, and on-the-fly-trail maintanence!


    Click image for larger version. 

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    That set up is fing sweet! I want two of em!

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    Another Stomping.

    Quote Originally Posted by ak greeff View Post
    Another moose stomping on Good Greeff last night. Please stay off of and out of the are around this trail! Be safe out there!
    Does anyone know whether yesterday's stomping occured on the north or south side of Good Grief?

    Good Grief has been getting haunted by an aggressive young male moose for the last several days. I observed a couple of ladies trail running on the ski trail that parallels Good Grief get stalked by this young male and then charged on Friday 6/1.

    Be safe out there, probably only a matter of time until the next moose stomping. I would encourage folks to send Jesse Coltrane at F&G an email or give her a call and request action.

    jessica.coltrane@alaska.gov -- (907)267-2811

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    Yes
    litespeed's break

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    The moose are trying to take the park back. Got chased all the way down easy street at full speed last night in the race. They mean business.

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